Advanced Class Guide Preview: Swashbuckler

Tuesday, June 2, 2014


Illustration by Igor Grechanyi

As a kid, I spent a good chunk of my weekend hours watching just about anything that had swashbuckler goodness. Pirates, musketeers, and masked avengers were among the first sparks that ignited my fledgling imagination. When we set out to design the swashbuckler class our chief goal was to create a class that was fun in that Errol Flynn sort of way, while creating enough room for the many fine swashbuckler variants that have appeared in the many decades after Captain Blood.

Even before playtesting began, we designed two versions of the class. Like all of the classes appearing in the Advanced Class Guide, the swashbuckler is a hybrid class—a class with mechanics and sometimes theme rooted in two existing classes—specifically a hybrid of fighter and gunslinger. One of the pre-playtest version was heavy on fighter, the second was heavy on gunslinger, but we soon discovered that the latter variant was a lot more fun, as we reskinned grit to panache, and were able to create deeds that were both useful and iconic...including the very fun derring-do feat that grants an extra d6 boost with the possibility of exploding dice (if you roll a 6 on that roll you gain another d6 boost) when using Acrobatics, Climb, Escape Artist, Fly, Ride, or Swim checks.

During the playtest, feedback granted us a wealth of information that allowed us to fine-tune the class. We wanted the class to be true to its roots, but to have enough room for players to create their own take on this daring warrior classic. To this end, we made it relatively easy to gain Dexterity modifier damage and benefit classes nifty precise strike precision damage deed with a variety of weapons through the class itself, by way of multiclassing, and through feats (try the Snake Style feat from Ultimate Combat with the precise strike deed to get your swashbuckler/kung fu fusion on).

The playtest also gave us feedback on which abilities were good, but not quite good enough for a true swashbuckler. For example, in the original iteration of derring-do, you had to spend panache and use the deed before you made the skill check. The finally ability allows you to use it after making the check, but before the results are revealed, making it more evocative and useful.

With the fine-tuning of class abilities complete, we moved on to archetypes, which allowed us create fun and interesting variants on the theme. In the book you’ll find (among others) the flying blade (hint: the blade are flying, not the swashbuckler, unless the wizard decides to do her a solid), the mysterious avenger (so you can make your own flavor of Zorro), and the picaroon (for those of you who like a little bang-bang alongside your flashing blade). Add this to the various combat and panache feats along with magic items tailor made for the swashbuckler, and you will find a lot of options to make exactly the swashbuckler that you always wanted to play.

Needless to say, if you like your heroes with light armor, a sharp rapier, an even shaper wit, and more than a few tricks up your sleeve, we think you’re going to enjoy the swashbuckler at least as much as we enjoyed designing her.

Stephen Radney-MacFarland
Designer

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Tags: Igor Grechanyi Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
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I hate to burst your bubble, but the Flying Blade archetype is likely referring to the Flying Blade, an exotic two-handed sword with reach.


Isn't that a performance weapon?


Well regardless it sounds like an interesting archetype.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

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Arachnofiend wrote:
I hate to burst your bubble, but the Flying Blade archetype is likely referring to the Flying Blade, an exotic two-handed sword with reach.

Or... (looking at the picture) literal flying blades.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

Very happy to see this book bubbling to the surface. I have high expectations for this.

Silver Crusade

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
To this end, we made it relatively easy to gain Dexterity modifier damage and benefit classes nifty precise strike precision damage deed with a variety of weapons through the class itself, by way of multiclassing, and through feats (try the Snake Style feat from Ultimate Combat with the precise strike deed to get your swashbuckler/kung fu fusion on).

clasps hands over heart

hopeful eyes

Silver Crusade

Also, that's quite the suggestive blade placement there. ;)

Liberty's Edge

Arachnofiend wrote:
I hate to burst your bubble, but the Flying Blade archetype is likely referring to the Flying Blade, an exotic two-handed sword with reach.

Given that the picture above is listed as "FlyingBlade"...I think the knife throwing thing is more likely.


Teaches me to read the file names.

I hope it's good, I certainly agree knife throwers need more love.

Liberty's Edge

Arachnofiend wrote:

Teaches me to read the file names.

I hope it's good, I certainly agree knife throwers need more love.

Well, even the core Swasbuckler gets to add his level to damage on thrown knives...so, I'd say that building on that you can almost certainly make a hell of a deadly knife thrower with a whole archetype devoted to it.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:

Teaches me to read the file names.

I hope it's good, I certainly agree knife throwers need more love.

Well, even the core Swasbuckler gets to add his level to damage on thrown knives...so, I'd say that building on that you can almost certainly make a hell of a deadly knife thrower with a whole archetype devoted to it.

Think the problem with throwers has never really been lack of damage (although it certainly doesn't hurt), but really the logistics of lacking reusable, throwable weapons that don't totally destroy your bank. Not sure if Paizo is aware that this might need to be fixed.


This blog post is awesome! Really looking forward to learning more about the other classes as well :)

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

AncientSpark wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:

Teaches me to read the file names.

I hope it's good, I certainly agree knife throwers need more love.

Well, even the core Swasbuckler gets to add his level to damage on thrown knives...so, I'd say that building on that you can almost certainly make a hell of a deadly knife thrower with a whole archetype devoted to it.
Think the problem with throwers has never really been lack of damage (although it certainly doesn't hurt), but really the logistics of lacking reusable, throwable weapons that don't totally destroy your bank. Not sure if Paizo is aware that this might need to be fixed.

The blinkback belt, coupled with the Quick Draw feat, does quite a lot to help with this issue.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Arachnofiend wrote:
Alaryth wrote:
We always have played the other way; DM says difficulty, player rolls. :(
I think most people play that way; when this sort of rule comes up at my table our GM just lets us reroll if we fail the check. Prevents the agony of "NO I WANTED TO REROLL THAT".

Yes, I think the wording of "Before the results are revealed" needs to be gotten rid of across the board. Depending on a DM's style, this can easily make ALL of those completely worthless.


Mikaze wrote:
Quote:
To this end, we made it relatively easy to gain Dexterity modifier damage and benefit classes nifty precise strike precision damage deed with a variety of weapons through the class itself, by way of multiclassing, and through feats (try the Snake Style feat from Ultimate Combat with the precise strike deed to get your swashbuckler/kung fu fusion on).

clasps hands over heart

hopeful eyes

But... Snake Style is only with unarmed. :(


Backlash3906 wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Quote:
To this end, we made it relatively easy to gain Dexterity modifier damage and benefit classes nifty precise strike precision damage deed with a variety of weapons through the class itself, by way of multiclassing, and through feats (try the Snake Style feat from Ultimate Combat with the precise strike deed to get your swashbuckler/kung fu fusion on).

clasps hands over heart

hopeful eyes

But... Snake Style is only with unarmed. :(

I thought that was the point? With Snake Style, your unarmed strikes inflict piercing damage, and thus qualify as a "light or one-handed piercing weapon" for the swashbuckler's precise strike deed.


Backlash3906 wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Quote:
To this end, we made it relatively easy to gain Dexterity modifier damage and benefit classes nifty precise strike precision damage deed with a variety of weapons through the class itself, by way of multiclassing, and through feats (try the Snake Style feat from Ultimate Combat with the precise strike deed to get your swashbuckler/kung fu fusion on).

clasps hands over heart

hopeful eyes

But... Snake Style is only with unarmed. :(

Unless there is a feat or class ability that lets a swashbuckler use a finesse weapon in conjuction with unarmed styles :)

Verdant Wheel

DrDeth wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Alaryth wrote:
We always have played the other way; DM says difficulty, player rolls. :(
I think most people play that way; when this sort of rule comes up at my table our GM just lets us reroll if we fail the check. Prevents the agony of "NO I WANTED TO REROLL THAT".
Yes, I think the wording of "Before the results are revealed" needs to be gotten rid of across the board. Depending on a DM's style, this can easily make ALL of those completely worthless.

Wow. Excelent observation. I really never thought too deeply about that. When i GM i already do that, and most players have a very good idea of the DC anyway.

Dark Archive

Oh was hoping to enjoy the Swashbuckler class.
Another class to auto-ban the instant the book comes out.
Anything Gunslinger related just gets tossed on the discard pile automatically these days. Just a terrible base for anything.


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Oh was hoping to enjoy the Swashbuckler class.

Another class to auto-ban the instant the book comes out.
Anything Gunslinger related just gets tossed on the discard pile automatically these days. Just a terrible base for anything.

The class isn't proficient with firearms, if that's what you're worried about.

Sovereign Court

While monsters immune to precision damage aren't that common in the monster manuals, they seem to show up a LOT in adventures. I swear every other fight I'm doing half damage to these things. If i see one more earth elemental I swear I'm hiring a dwarven digging company.

Liberty's Edge

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Oh was hoping to enjoy the Swashbuckler class.

Another class to auto-ban the instant the book comes out.
Anything Gunslinger related just gets tossed on the discard pile automatically these days. Just a terrible base for anything.

Why? The main problem with Gunslinger is the gun mechanics...which the Swashbuckler doesn't use.


Sevus wrote:
Backlash3906 wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Quote:
To this end, we made it relatively easy to gain Dexterity modifier damage and benefit classes nifty precise strike precision damage deed with a variety of weapons through the class itself, by way of multiclassing, and through feats (try the Snake Style feat from Ultimate Combat with the precise strike deed to get your swashbuckler/kung fu fusion on).

clasps hands over heart

hopeful eyes

But... Snake Style is only with unarmed. :(
I thought that was the point? With Snake Style, your unarmed strikes inflict piercing damage, and thus qualify as a "light or one-handed piercing weapon" for the swashbuckler's precise strike deed.

Thank you but i prefer mine better. :P Actually that would be a cool build. And just another way to be better than a monk at the monk's big thing.


It always had gunslinger as one of its bases....so that's not a new realization.

Dark Archive

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Oh was hoping to enjoy the Swashbuckler class.

Another class to auto-ban the instant the book comes out.
Anything Gunslinger related just gets tossed on the discard pile automatically these days. Just a terrible base for anything.
Why? The main problem with Gunslinger is the gun mechanics...which the Swashbuckler doesn't use.
Quote:
picaroon (for those of you who like a little bang-bang alongside your flashing blade)

Actually according to this parts of it are proficient with firearms but that's not the issue.

While Firearms mechanics are terrible the gunslinger class was so front loaded with the best class aspects it made for too good of a dip class for everything else.
As a hybrid fighter/Gunslinger with easy access to non-light weapon Dex to Damage I fully expect every monk, rogue, magus, etc. to use this as a dip class.
Just by what's been talked about so far it seems rife for abuse by itself or as a dip.


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Oh was hoping to enjoy the Swashbuckler class.

Another class to auto-ban the instant the book comes out.
Anything Gunslinger related just gets tossed on the discard pile automatically these days. Just a terrible base for anything.
Why? The main problem with Gunslinger is the gun mechanics...which the Swashbuckler doesn't use.
Quote:
picaroon (for those of you who like a little bang-bang alongside your flashing blade)

Actually according to this parts of it are proficient with firearms but that's not the issue.

While Firearms mechanics are terrible the gunslinger class was so front loaded with the best class aspects it made for too good of a dip class for everything else.
As a hybrid fighter/Gunslinger with easy access to non-light weapon Dex to Damage I fully expect every monk, rogue, magus, etc. to use this as a dip class.
Just by what's been talked about so far it seems rife for abuse by itself or as a dip.

What makes you think that they will get Dex to damage at level 1? It takes gunslingers to level 5 before they can do that with their guns. So there's a good chance that maybe the Dex to damage could be similar to that ability of the gunslinger.

Liberty's Edge

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Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
Actually according to this parts of it are proficient with firearms but that's not the issue.

That's a reason to dislike the Archetype, not the Class as a whole.

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

While Firearms mechanics are terrible the gunslinger class was so front loaded with the best class aspects it made for too good of a dip class for everything else.

As a hybrid fighter/Gunslinger with easy access to non-light weapon Dex to Damage I fully expect every monk, rogue, magus, etc. to use this as a dip class.
Just by what's been talked about so far it seems rife for abuse by itself or as a dip.

Actually, that seems at least as likely to be in the form of a Feat as a Class Feature (more so, IMO). And, in the playtest, the Class's signature powers don't really kick in until 3rd level, and the best one at that level only scales with Swashbuckler level, making dipping less than a great idea.

So...I think your assumptions of of what 'Gunslinger based' means are profoundly incorrect. what it appears to mean is "Primarily uses a Grit-like mechanic." But...not a single Deed is the same, nor are almost any other Class Features.


Dexterity modifier to damage?
Hmmm, would a Mivon based Aldori Swordlord become a bit more viable I wonder?

Dark Archive

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
Actually according to this parts of it are proficient with firearms but that's not the issue.

That's a reason to dislike the Archetype, not the Class as a whole.

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

While Firearms mechanics are terrible the gunslinger class was so front loaded with the best class aspects it made for too good of a dip class for everything else.

As a hybrid fighter/Gunslinger with easy access to non-light weapon Dex to Damage I fully expect every monk, rogue, magus, etc. to use this as a dip class.
Just by what's been talked about so far it seems rife for abuse by itself or as a dip.

Actually, that seems at least as likely to be in the form of a Feat as a Class Feature (more so, IMO). And, in the playtest, the Class's signature powers don't really kick in until 3rd level, and the best one at that level only scales with Swashbuckler level, making dipping less than a great idea.

So...I think your assumptions of of what 'Gunslinger based' means are profoundly incorrect. what it appears to mean is "Primarily uses a Grit-like mechanic." But...not a single Deed is the same, nor are almost any other Class Features.

I honestly haven't liked ANY of the classes offered through the playtest so far this archetype simply adds another reason to dislike them on top of all the rest.

Really, all of this is just the Gestalt option from 3.5 re-done with a bit more rules thrown on top of them and we all know how well that went back then. Anyway that is irrelevant to the point here.

More to the point we have no idea how any of the classes will actually be until launch and we're just guessing at this point based on the little bit we know from the drips and dribbles of info from the playtest they've confirmed.
So far I'm more wary then excited, ESPECIALLY when the Gunslinger design is thrown around. Every instance (literally EVERY instance) where it's brought into contact with another class it's pretty much broken or ruined the archetype it's attached to.

I don't have high expectations of a gestalt-lite class built from a fighter and super-fighter (gunslinger) with the core mechanic of probably the most divisive, complained about & banned class in the game.
I'm prepared for the worst and nothing I've read so far has given me a reason not to.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

While Firearms mechanics are terrible the gunslinger class was so front loaded with the best class aspects it made for too good of a dip class for everything else.

As a hybrid fighter/Gunslinger with easy access to non-light weapon Dex to Damage I fully expect every monk, rogue, magus, etc. to use this as a dip class.
Just by what's been talked about so far it seems rife for abuse by itself or as a dip.

Actually, that seems at least as likely to be in the form of a Feat as a Class Feature (more so, IMO). And, in the playtest, the Class's signature powers don't really kick in until 3rd level, and the best one at that level only scales with Swashbuckler level, making dipping less than a great idea.

So...I think your assumptions of of what 'Gunslinger based' means are profoundly incorrect. what it appears to mean is "Primarily uses a Grit-like mechanic." But...not a single Deed is the same, nor are almost any other Class Features.

To emphasize this point - Stephen said this in the discussion of the revised Swashbuckler class.

Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
Okay...for all you Dex damage junkies, we are looking into options that allow you to do it, but they will probably be more like Dervish Dance -- that is options that you feat into.

Liberty's Edge

That was the basis for my opinion there, yes. :)

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

A Zorro-inspired archetype? Sweet!


Hopefully they decided to fix the class' saves and make it less pointlessly complicated (e.g.: just give SBs Weapon Finesse instead of giving it "All the benefits of WF, and counts as WF for fulfilling prerequisites").


Lemmy wrote:
Hopefully they decided to fix the class' saves and make it less pointlessly complicated (e.g.: just give SBs Weapon Finesse instead of giving it "All the benefits of WF, and counts as WF for fulfilling prerequisites").

Um...I hope they Don't do that as that was one of the nicer things they had.


Being able to finesse any one-handed piercing weapon is a pretty big departure from WF itself, Lemmy. Technically, a Swashbuckler can finesse every weapon in the game with the right combination of feats and class abilities. If it isn't piercing you take Weapon Versatility, if it isn't one handed you dip Titan Mauler. Still have my fingers crossed for a mounted archetype focused around finessing a lance.


Yes, I too sort of hope for a jousting archetype.


Arachnofiend wrote:
Still have my fingers crossed for a mounted archetype focused around finessing a lance.

Agreed, ever since I saw the Trick Riding feat in the APG, I've wanted to make a dextrous mounted melee character, but just never found a build that could do it efficiently enough to make it worthwhile for my inner munchkin.


John Kretzer wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Hopefully they decided to fix the class' saves and make it less pointlessly complicated (e.g.: just give SBs Weapon Finesse instead of giving it "All the benefits of WF, and counts as WF for fulfilling prerequisites").
Um...I hope they Don't do that as that was one of the nicer things they had.

OTOH, they need to pay a feat tax to use Weapon Finesse with whips, brass knuckles, unamed strikes or chakrams, all of which would make flavorful SB weapons.

I'd also add that if I never see another "Before the results are revealed" ability again, it'll be too soon.


Actually you might want to look at the Horselord Cavalier Archetype, it is basically begging to be mixed in with dervish dance. The downside being you do lose tactician.


I wasn't aware a scimitar was the same thing as a lance. I'm more envisioning characters similar to Fire Emblem's Pegasus Knights (though a GM that would give me a flying mount would be... extremely generous).


Arachnofiend wrote:
I wasn't aware a scimitar was the same thing as a lance. I'm more envisioning characters similar to Fire Emblem's Pegasus Knights (though a GM that would give me a flying mount would be... extremely generous).

Not quite a pegasus, but check out Inner Sea Combat. There's a pair of feats that may interest you. The first allows you to take a griffin or hippogriff animal companion/bonded mount (as well as a worg or hippocampus), and the second allows it to fly while carrying a rider. Might not help for the concept you're thinking, but hey, it's there, and it's awesome.

Contributor

Suma3da wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Still have my fingers crossed for a mounted archetype focused around finessing a lance.
Agreed, ever since I saw the Trick Riding feat in the APG, I've wanted to make a dextrous mounted melee character, but just never found a build that could do it efficiently enough to make it worthwhile for my inner munchkin.

Luckily, the Swashbuckler can finesse a lance as-written while riding a mount. While mounted, a lance is a one-handed piercing weapon after all. Cavalier with a 1-level dip into swashbuckler could do it handedly. (lol)


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Mathwei ap Niall wrote:


I honestly haven't liked ANY of the classes offered through the playtest so far this archetype simply adds another reason to dislike them on top of all the rest.

Fair enough.

You don't have to like a class but your arguments are somewhat iffy.

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:


Really, all of this is just the Gestalt option from 3.5 re-done with a bit more rules thrown on top of them and we all know how well that went back then. Anyway that is irrelevant to the point here.

Um, no, and a hundred times more no.

Gestalt characters were way different to the Advanced Class guide classes. A Gestalt Bard/Barbarian would be a lot different to the Skald...(d12 hp for a start)

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:


More to the point we have no idea how any of the classes will actually be until launch and we're just guessing at this point based on the little bit we know from the drips and dribbles of info from the playtest they've confirmed.
So far I'm more wary then excited, ESPECIALLY when the Gunslinger design is thrown around. Every instance (literally EVERY instance) where it's brought into contact with another class it's pretty much broken or ruined...

What part of the gunslinger coming into contact with other classes have broken or ruined them?

I'm not overly up with it but the only examples I can think of gave gun options.
The standard Swashbuckler doesn't get guns.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Suma3da wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Still have my fingers crossed for a mounted archetype focused around finessing a lance.
Agreed, ever since I saw the Trick Riding feat in the APG, I've wanted to make a dextrous mounted melee character, but just never found a build that could do it efficiently enough to make it worthwhile for my inner munchkin.
Luckily, the Swashbuckler can finesse a lance as-written while riding a mount. While mounted, a lance is a one-handed piercing weapon after all. Cavalier with a 1-level dip into swashbuckler could do it handedly. (lol)

Nope. Lances are still two-handed weapons while mounted - you can just wield them in one hand. (Compare any other ability with the lance description.) The difference matters for power attack.


Indeed it does! See one-handed weapons, and how the amount of damage Power Attack does differs depending on whether you choose to wield it in one hand or two. Weapons are defined by how you wield them.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Arachnofiend wrote:
Indeed it does! See one-handed weapons, and how the amount of damage Power Attack does differs depending on whether you choose to wield it in one hand or two. Weapons are defined by how you wield them.

Really?


Iammars wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Indeed it does! See one-handed weapons, and how the amount of damage Power Attack does differs depending on whether you choose to wield it in one hand or two. Weapons are defined by how you wield them.
Really?

Well, that just makes my head hurt. So is it that you don't get the 1.5x strength bonus to damage if wielding it one handed, but you get the 1.5x power attack bonus? It just seems contrary to the whole "wield a weapon 2 handed, get a bigger damage bonus" idea.


Yeah, lances are weird like that. Which is why a jousting archetype would need a caveat on that, and of course a mount.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Iammars wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Indeed it does! See one-handed weapons, and how the amount of damage Power Attack does differs depending on whether you choose to wield it in one hand or two. Weapons are defined by how you wield them.
Really?

...This is a bad FAQ and whoever wrote it should feel bad for doing so

This is just needlessly confusing. Why does it disagree with Jotungrip? It should be one rule or the other, not both depending.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The question in the FAQ that (Really?) is linked to isn't (Shouldn't be) for all weapons, but the answer is refering to the Lance specifically.

I would maintain that one (usually) would need to wield a weapon in Two Hands to get the X1.5 damage bonus.

There was a big how to do over the Earth Breaker a bit ago, as a feat allows it to be used in one hand. This makes it so when used this way, the character only gets the normal damage instead of the X1.5.

statement about other issue:
Still can not wield two at the same time or an oversized one either, the weapon is still a Two Handed weapon dispite being used differently than normal

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