How I Got to Destroy Avistan

Elves are pretty much played as isolationists in "Queen of Thorns", the reather recent Pathfinder Tales novel by Dave Gross. Though he does strive to show a more complex picture of the situation - most of their isolation vibes are about Cheliax and half elves who lived outside of Kyonin - and I can see why they would want to have little to do with devil worshipers and I can appreciate that half elves have a whole lot of extra baggage attached to them in this regard.

Still, that might have been a missed opportunity to show the elves as a more friendly race.

Queen of Thorns I find remarkable for showcasing the chaotic nature of elves. Almost every other depiction of them that I've seen have seemed much more lawful than chaotic. Strict hierarchies, very well-organized, etc. Good/Neutral was more variable. Krynn elves were LG like the Kingpriest was - to a fault.

For the record, my group quite enjoyed AP #17, including the initially hostile elves.

@ Orthos

I seem to recall a fanthing in the Second Darkness where 'ignoring' the humans would be something going on in Kyoin(sp). 'Ignoring' in such that diplomats are perpetually on the back-burner and any other thing outside the borders is put off. 'Eventually the problem will go away' would be the attitude.

This would apply to the PCs in SD as well. Keep them holed up with plenty of distractions and eventually they will try to leave and can be disposed of or even die of old age if need be.('We had everything they needed and they threw it back into our faces' to 'Well that took care of itself quite nicely')

Lord Snow wrote:

Elves are pretty much played as isolationists in "Queen of Thorns", the reather recent Pathfinder Tales novel by Dave Gross. Though he does strive to show a more complex picture of the situation - most of their isolation vibes are about Cheliax and half elves who lived outside of Kyonin - and I can see why they would want to have little to do with devil worshipers and I can appreciate that half elves have a whole lot of extra baggage attached to them in this regard.

Still, that might have been a missed opportunity to show the elves as a more friendly race.

Queen of Thorns I find remarkable for showcasing the chaotic nature of elves. Almost every other depiction of them that I've seen have seemed much more lawful than chaotic. Strict hierarchies, very well-organized, etc. Good/Neutral was more variable. Krynn elves were LG like the Kingpriest was - to a fault.

For the record, my group quite enjoyed AP #17, including the initially hostile elves.

I can agree with you there, though I'm not the biggest fan of the alignment system so I was not as excited about it. But their faerie like nature was certainly on display in that book.

I can see what would happen if the Worldwound expands into Numeria.
"We must awake the great hero from the vaults!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf47DQj_2Gg

Just got my copy yesterday. I really enjoyed this, although it did seem as if Varisia was curiously absent in the Worldwound expansion section. I'm guessing it is probably because- what with there being several APs set there- there are more "wild cards" that would have had to be taken into account and assumptions made?

I just didn't have the space to work that far west in the time frame presented. Glad you enjoyed it!

Now I've got The Doors song, "The End" worming its way into my brain.
Thanks Adam!
>:D

I was a big fan of the Midnight campaign setting. I thought it was an interesting idea. I read many of the source books.

However I was never able to tempt my players to play in the setting.

So the idea of playing in a game where "night has already fallen" sound like a neat idea.

Now I don't think just because the 20 level mythic heroes of the 5th crusade have failed, that means the end of Golarion. It's an opportunity to tell a new story with new heroes facing seemingly impossible odds trying to stem the tide of evil......sounds pretty mythic to me!

The Abyssal invasion of Golarion sounds to me like fertile ground for more adventure!

Or another possibility might be this could be a "dream sequence" the characters of the 5th crusade could experience to show them what happens if they fail.

Just my two cents!

I just didn't have the space to work that far west in the time frame presented. Glad you enjoyed it!

Ah, that would be another reason I hadn't considered! :)

I thought the Numeria part was really fun, especially what happens to the Starmount. Darn meddlers!

Adam Daigle wrote:

I just didn't have the space to work that far west in the time frame presented. Glad you enjoyed it!

Ah, that would be another reason I hadn't considered! :)

I thought the Numeria part was really fun, especially what happens to the Starmount. Darn meddlers!

Silly Technic League... think they know everything. :)

Just got the last book a couple hours ago, while the results if the PCs fail are impressive. It is one of the ideas if they succeed that hooked me the best. Patron God of outcasts, artists, and midnight? Brilliant!

Cthulhudrew wrote:

Adam Daigle wrote:

I just didn't have the space to work that far west in the time frame presented. Glad you enjoyed it!

Ah, that would be another reason I hadn't considered! :)

I thought the Numeria part was really fun, especially what happens to the Starmount. Darn meddlers!

Silly Technic League... think they know everything. :)

When I ran King Maker the players ended the AP mid way through the last book. If you played it they just defended their kingdom and left it at that.

Now currently running this AP and if things go bad I can switch in their kingdom defending the demons. Could be some redemption as they seek powerful allies.

The more I see and think about this ending, the more I'd love a follow up product that explores this alternative ending with more detail and rules.

I want a mythic adventure path which takes place in the hypothetical Golarion in which the PCs didn't succeed in ANY of the previous campaigns. Get your party caught up in the clash between Karzoug and Deskari, Elyanna and Ileosa, all that good stuff.

What I found most hilarious is the part where the Worldwound's southern advance is bogged down in Ustalav. Ustalav, the land of horror movie villains, that held off the demonic advance for almost a year due to the alliance of the vampire lords and the monsters (except the werewolves) with the humans.

Now the Worldwound's tip of the spear is bogged down in occupied remnants-of-Ustalav, a land up to its fundament in necromancy and ghosts, a land that only gets /worse/ the more of its population dies.

Man, I'm almost tempted to feel sorry for the demons. It must be like Vietnam crossed with Ravenloft.

What I found most hilarious is the part where the Worldwound's southern advance is bogged down in Ustalav. Ustalav, the land of horror movie villains, that held off the demonic advance for almost a year due to the alliance of the vampire lords and the monsters (except the werewolves) with the humans.

Now the Worldwound's tip of the spear is bogged down in occupied remnants-of-Ustalav, a land up to its fundament in necromancy and ghosts, a land that only gets /worse/ the more of its population dies.

Man, I'm almost tempted to feel sorry for the demons. It must be like Vietnam crossed with Ravenloft.

What's even more hilarious is that Malyas the vampiric antipaladin is probably at the forefront of the anti-demonic war effort.

I think that

Malyas is too devout to the Whispering Way to be able to lead a coalition of humans and vampires, but

I think that ** spoiler omitted ** is a more likely candidate for leader of the anti-demonic forces than Malyas. After all, he's the one who ** spoiler omitted **He's not the most powerful (ie, highly-leveled) vampire in the country, but that's because anyone who isn't part of his extensive network of favors, servitude, and politics has to be pretty high-level to be able to escape his influence and not be killed.

Malyas is too devout to the Whispering Way to be able to lead a coalition of humans and vampires, but ** spoiler omitted ** has the tendrils of influence, the credibility, and the pragmatism to reach out to the living population and be able to broker an... arrangement to their mutual benefit; a yearly tribute could be instituted to commemorate the bond between their kind and the alliance that fought to drive out Demons, a pittance in comparison to the uncontested bloodshed that would have happened without them.

Informative. Thank you. :)

Which begs the question, what exactly would Malyas be doing in the event of a demon invasion? Hunkering down in Kronquist?

Speaking of villains, another thought:

From the material, we know that even the Worldwound demonic incursion doesn't want to let Tar-Baphon out of the box, and in fact sent a major task force under a marilith general for the specific purpose of making sure the Whispering Tyrant stays in it.

We also know that the three seals that control the Grand Seal holding the Cenotaph shut are in Taldor, Lastwall, and one of the dwarven kingdoms -- i.e., they are still all in territory controlled by the resistance.

You almost wonder if their ultra last-ditch style contingency, if/when it looks like the world is about to fall to the demons forever, isn't to break all three seals open and go "Screw it! If we can't have the world, NEITHER CAN YOU!"

Or: the Osterhagen Key from Dr. Who.

Looks like a cool sequel to either a Carrion Crown or Kingmaker campaign.