Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play: Double-Take

Monday, July 29, 2013

In another week we will see the newest version of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, the document that lays out the baseline rules, assumptions, and adjustments for playing in the organized play campaign. Over the past few months, whether by podcast, convention panel, or cryptic response to a forum post, Mike and I have hinted at many of the updates. By now, for example, practically everyone knows about the disappearance of the Lantern Lodge and Shadow Lodge. The new format for Pathfinder Tales novel boons has been available for download for several months. We even spoiled the new system for wealth and "playing up" during a panel at PaizoCon a few weeks ago. There is, however, at least one thing that we have not teased: Replay.

Already I can hear the hissed intake of breath from some worried readers. We've read, heard, and sometimes even personally made the argument that replay opens the door to myriad forms of abuse. I agree that unlimited replay of more than just Tier 1 scenarios and Tier 1-2 modules would be disruptive. I still remember meeting a Pathfinder Society player who proudly boasted that he and his group had just run through The Godsmouth Heresy six times in the course of a weekend simply to level-grind a host of characters to 2nd level. Campaign leadership has been very careful in exploring replay so that we might avoid classic pitfalls.

What tipped the balance for us was realizing that replay might also address an ongoing push to expand rewards for GMs who have dedicated their time to the campaign. In my estimation, most GMs who have at least one star have had to "eat" a scenario by preparing and GMing it before having the chance to play it. In my experience, those who habitually GM for organized play also have considerable practice when it comes to suppressing personal knowledge. In my time as a volunteer and employee, I find that those who GM first and play later are also among the most dedicated to wanting the whole group to have fun and enjoy experiencing a scenario without spoilers. That got the gears turning.

When Version 5.0 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play goes live, campaign participants who have been recognized for their efforts as a GM by receiving GM stars will be able to replay or "re-GM" a limited number of scenarios—specifically one scenario for each star earned. In this way a participant may earn a third Chronicle sheet from a given scenario: one for playing, one for GMing, and one for either playing or GMing that scenario a second time. No character may ever have two of the same Chronicle sheet, so one must apply each sheet to a different character each time. When earning a third Chronicle in this way, the GM should write "GM Star Replay Credit" on the Chronicle sheet.

Let's say you're a two-star GM—thank you for your help, by the way. You can now replay or re-GM (for credit, that is) two scenarios once each. Perhaps you thought Pathfinder Society Scenario #3–14159: Death by Pie was amazing when you played it the first time, but you are sad to have missed the opportunity to play it with your pastry totem barbarian who took the mathematical prodigy trait. You replay it for credit using one of your replay credits, and now you have one replay left. If you later use that to replay #5–513: The Doppelganger's Prey, you are now out of replays until you earn that third star. Only then would you be able to replay #4–117: All the Doors are Trapped for credit.

At this time, the Guide does not say anything about gaining more replay credits each season. For now that's alright by me; let's see how this works for one season before making promises about what will happen a year from now. As many as five replays won't be enough to make a character completely unbalanced. Instead I envision this being for those who have played/GMed almost everything, managed tables for most of a convention, and saved the last slot to just play.

There may be other rewards tied to GM ties in the Guide, but we'll just have to wait to see those when the new document goes live next week.


Amiri and Ezren are both replaying the scenario pictured above, and our iconic barbarian is trying to remind the wizard not to spoil what's about to happen next for the other players. Ezren is just aghast that all of the other characters put on the masks without first discovering the black lotus extract smeared on the interiors. What a great (nonexistent) scenario...

John Compton and Mike Brock
Developer and Campaign Coordinator

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Tags: Pathfinder Society
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Grand Lodge 5/5

John Compton wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Deanoth wrote:
Jiggy wrote:

I'm submitting a pitch for the sequel, Every Room is a Haunt. Why use a trap when you can call it a haunt and guarantee it goes off?

;)

Jiggy, to easy to counter with a party of Paladins! :)

Paladins are immune to the effects of a Haunt (being immune to fear and Haunts are fear and mind effecting effects), but not the secondary effects if any. They would just rely on their great saving throws instead :)

Ah, but the kicker is it's gonna be the new Intro scenario, so it's exclusively for 1st level: no Divine Grace, no Aura of Courage. >:D
*scribbles down notes and checks the product calendar for openings*

Dang, the evil overlords have spotted your designs Jiggy.. time to get jiggy with it and move quickly!!

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

John Compton wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Deanoth wrote:
Jiggy wrote:

I'm submitting a pitch for the sequel, Every Room is a Haunt. Why use a trap when you can call it a haunt and guarantee it goes off?

;)

Jiggy, to easy to counter with a party of Paladins! :)

Paladins are immune to the effects of a Haunt (being immune to fear and Haunts are fear and mind effecting effects), but not the secondary effects if any. They would just rely on their great saving throws instead :)

Ah, but the kicker is it's gonna be the new Intro scenario, so it's exclusively for 1st level: no Divine Grace, no Aura of Courage. >:D
*scribbles down notes and checks the product calendar for openings*

Just wait til you meet the BBEG!

A completely appropriate CR4 encounter:
Since it's for 6 PCs the APL is 2. Going for a CR4 boss fight.

So we take a wight (CR3), make it young (CR2), and give it a level of fighter (bonus feat: Weapon Finesse) and a level of urban barbarian (yay DEX rage!) for a final CR of 4.

So while raging, it has AC 18 and attacks at +8. Damage isn't great, but since he has energy drain and the PCs are all 1st level, each hit is a kill anyway. :)

Oh, and all the haunts up to this point have dealt DEX damage, to kill the party's AC and initiative.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I would run the hell out of that scenario!

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Jiggy

Spoiler:
How are your undead barbarians raging?

5/5

Ninja'd by Chris.

Other ideas:
Besides, you can add two levels of Warrior instead of the Barb level.

5/5

CR 4 for a 1st level party? Pfft. Just throw a flying, invisible, mirror imaged, level 5 wizard at them. Boom! Any survivors? Boom! How about now? Oh, the rogue? Fine. [insert any will save SoS spell]

4/5

Another Idea:
Just make the wight a level 2 magus with arcane mark memorized. It can have mage armor + shield for 24 AC, too! Screw casting defensively, they aren't gonna hit it!

(Edit: 24 AC, not 23, because of young template.)

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Chris Mortika wrote:
Jiggy** spoiler omitted **

D'oh!

Adjustment:
Alright, so Weapon Finesse will come from his 5th HD feat. Instead of fighter/barb, he gets two levels of ninja, taking Vanishing Trick. He goes invisible, and gets into position. Then on his next turn he attacks (flat-footed!), goes invisible again, then moves so they don't know which square to attack.

Oh, and since he's now attacking flat-footed opponents, all the haunts deal STR damage instead of DEX damage. ;)

Dark Archive

Don't forget that if you manage to beat the boss, you're trapped on the demi-plane of Haunts and have to pay 6,800gp to get home.

3/5

I'm not sure why, but the suspense is driving me nuts. Any chance there's an update on when the new guide will post? Thanks a lot!

EDIT: Thanks Jiggy.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Still theoretically today on the blog; just keep hitting F5!

Silver Crusade 2/5

Jiggy wrote:
Still theoretically today on the blog; just keep hitting F5!

F5...

F5...

F5...

F5...

F5...

F5...

F5...

F5...

F5...

Shadow Lodge

6 people marked this as a favorite.

...and in other news, Paizo today announced that they are declaring bankruptcy, citing unusually high bandwidth costs.

5/5

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Earlier the lag was unbearable. Hopefully it will get released one of these days.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Maybe they should have told us that they were releasing it on Tuesday, and then surprise us on the Monday release - simply to reduce the constant F5ing.

1/5

F5... F5... F5... AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

3/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

1 person marked this as a favorite.

It's updated in the system. Just downloaded it.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

And it's glorious.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

pathar wrote:
Drogon wrote:
pathar wrote:

Hmmmmmm.

Interesting. Very interesting.

I like where you're going with this, and I look forward to reading the new guide.

Psst! Hey, Patrick!

** spoiler omitted **

Indeed, good sir. Name your charity and I will be delighted to contribute.

I know I haven't gotten my charity of choice to you, yet, but I promise I'm working on it. I also wanted to point out something fun for you (and anyone watching the "Star Rewards" debate):

Guide to PFS Season 5 wrote:
Additionally, when a player uses a free reroll, she may present her Pathfinder Society membership card and receive an additional +1 for every GM star she has earned, for a maximum of a +5.

Pretty sweet, eh? To me, it's better than the replay ability.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

It is interesting to note that there doesn't appear to be any more decision on if the table should play up or down - the rules seem to cover most if not all of the variables and indicate on whether you should play up or down.

No more "discussions" (yes, let's use that term :)) about bullying to play up, forced play downs, etc..

I like it actually.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

I like that the stats for a wayfinder are printed in the Guide. It's a small thing, but I've had newbies ask "What's a wayfinder? How much do they cost?" and it's nice to be able to point them to a core assumption.

5/5

Drogon wrote:
I know I haven't gotten my charity of choice to you, yet, but I promise I'm working on it.

This is, of course, strictly a suggestion, but it's something to consider if you haven't decided yet:

http://www.childsplaycharity.org/

Dark Archive 2/5 *

Does the GM Star replay include "specials" like Bonekeep (1 or 2), Runecarved key, etc.?

5/5

Syx wrote:
Does the GM Star replay include "specials" like Bonekeep (1 or 2), Runecarved key, etc.?

I can't see why it wouldn't.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

If it doesn't I'll be out of luck with my second run of Diamond City.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Syx wrote:

Does the GM Star replay include "specials" like Bonekeep (1 or 2), Runecarved key, etc.?

Those are all listed as Scenarios, regardless of the "special" designation. You should be good to go.

Scarab Sages 4/5 RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Drogon wrote:
Syx wrote:

Does the GM Star replay include "specials" like Bonekeep (1 or 2), Runecarved key, etc.?

Those are all listed as Scenarios, regardless of the "special" designation. You should be good to go.

Speaking of which, I could use one of my star replays to help make our slot 0 for Bonekeep Level 2 happen. I will send you an email...

2/5

rknop wrote:
kinevon wrote:
Online play isn't even covered by those rules.

However, the campaign organizers and the online VO, have said repeatedly here in these message board that online play, where you publicly post the game and people reading a public list can sign up for it, is to be treated as a game-store game.

They've also made it clear that players are expected to be ready to show those sheets and chronicles to online GMs if the online GMs request it. It may be hard-- but however you do it, figuring out how to do it is part of your responsibility for playing online, just like keeping your chronicles with your character is your responsibility for playing face-to-face games.

I've only played PFS online maybe 5 times, but PFS online requiring a scanner is not something I've ever heard before.

Honestly, I am not sure if my scanner (in the attic) even works as it's from the late 90s. I am not about to bring PFS stuff into work to use that scanner. I really don't want to risk having that conversation.

That pretty much eliminates me from online play with GMs who do this. With that said, I've had some unusual things happen even volunteering to run games for some online coordinators, so this legal but unusual stuff doesn't completely surprise me.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Furious Kender wrote:
rknop wrote:
kinevon wrote:
Online play isn't even covered by those rules.

However, the campaign organizers and the online VO, have said repeatedly here in these message board that online play, where you publicly post the game and people reading a public list can sign up for it, is to be treated as a game-store game.

They've also made it clear that players are expected to be ready to show those sheets and chronicles to online GMs if the online GMs request it. It may be hard-- but however you do it, figuring out how to do it is part of your responsibility for playing online, just like keeping your chronicles with your character is your responsibility for playing face-to-face games.

I've only played PFS online maybe 5 times, but PFS online requiring a scanner is not something I've ever heard before.

Honestly, I am not sure if my scanner (in the attic) even works as it's from the late 90s. I am not about to bring PFS stuff into work to use that scanner. I really don't want to risk having that conversation.

That pretty much eliminates me from online play with GMs who do this. With that said, I've had some unusual things happen even volunteering to run games for some online coordinators, so this legal but unusual stuff doesn't completely surprise me.

It varies between online GMs, really.

On PFSOC, Rob is the only one I know of that requests the info, but his request appears to be inclusive, which would make for a lot of work for some of us if he ever runs the Seeker arc or any of the higher level modules.

For the Fantasy Grounds PFS group, the requests I have seen were for a character sheet and just your most recent chronicle for that PC.

Spoiler:
I found an inexpensive, relatively, flatbed scanner from Best Buy that I got, since I am going to be GMing, and I would rather not have to rely on another GM to do my chronicle handouts for me. I have installed it, but haven't had a chance to test it yet.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Starfinder Superscriber

Re: characters showing chronicle sheets to online GMs, please see:

The notion that players shouldn't expect to be asked to show their chronicle sheets to GMs in online games is a pernicious idea that is incorrect. However surprised or unhappy you are about it, that's just simply how the PFS works. It's simple common courtesy. Just as you have to be ready to show things to face-to-face GMs, you have to be ready to show things to online GMs.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Starfinder Superscriber
kinevon wrote:
On PFSOC, Rob is the only one I know of that requests the info, but his request appears to be inclusive, which would make for a lot of work for someof us if he ever runs the Seeker arc or any of the higher level modules.

What that means is, before today, none of the other PFSOC GMs you know about were actually following the rules.... The 4.3 Guide listed reviewing chronicle sheets as one of the GM duties.

Now that it's not required, but recommended, the GMs are rule-complaint, but still, it is recommended, and while I might be an abberation in practice for asking for this, it's a bit unfortunate that I am. From anecdotal reports elsewhere, the occasional GM actually looking at player records helps encourage players to keep then in order.

I also am going to try not to hand out signed chronicle sheets until they're fully filled out-- again, because that's what the rules say we're all supposed to be doing, even though it's not common practice either in online games or face-to-face games. I have done it the common-but-wrong way a couple of times, but I'm going to try avoiding that, and actually following the rules. I lobbied the campaign leadership to change the rules to better match common practice (i.e. remove all need for player accounting to be on a sheet that the GM then signs), but they weren't changed, so it's what we're all supposed to be doing.

One way is to do this is lots of back-and-forth passing of sheets, with first GMs, then players, then GMs editing the PDF (or going through a print-scan cycle). I've done this in the past with PbP games. However, so as not to make it too hard on the players, what I do now is ask them to just tell me in email what they want written in the various spots on the sheet that players normally write on. I then fill out the whole thing and sign it. I did this with the game I ran last Saturday, and it worked just fine for the most part. (I'm still waiting to hear from one player what should be on the sheet, so that player doesn't have a signed chronicle sheet yet.) It's a bit more work for me as GM, not too bad.

(For Face-to-Face games, I do it as described in the Guide: fill in the GM only stuff but don't sign it, give it to the players to fill out the rest, and then get it back from them, look it over quickly, and sign it.)

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Furious Kender wrote:

I've only played PFS online maybe 5 times, but PFS online requiring a scanner is not something I've ever heard before.

Honestly, I am not sure if my scanner (in the attic) even works as it's from the late 90s. I am not about to bring PFS stuff into work to use that scanner. I really don't want to risk having that conversation.

That pretty much eliminates me from online play with GMs who do this. With that said, I've had some unusual things happen even volunteering to run games for some online coordinators, so this legal but unusual stuff doesn't completely surprise me.

A scanner isn't the only way. Do you have a digital camera? A cell phone with a camera? Take a (legible) photo and upload that.

Grand Lodge

Tiny Box Tim wrote:
Now to work on my stars!

One of your stars will soon be bound to mine!

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