At first I was going to pass but I have preordered it.
I am looking forward to this book so much. There are so many things that it addresses that we (our group) has played from the hip on.
Also, really, REALLY looking forward to the clarification rules on magic item crafing. It's been something needed for so long. I am actually a bit concerned, in looking forward to it for so long, that it won't address all my questions. Yes, I know, it's not going to be a rewrite, but I just hope it's not a box on one side of a page.
It addresses a lot of the question from the thread, but some got way too specific for the purpose of this book, so those'll end up in the FAQ.
It addresses a lot of the question from the thread, but some got way too specific for the purpose of this book, so those'll end up in the FAQ.
Awesome, thanks Sean, that’s what I wanted to hear. :)
It's nice to see that the book will have rules for buying businesses, but what I'd like from it is a bit simpler: will it have rules for buying a house (including the land the house is on)?
It has rules for buying a finished house, building a house from scratch, or adding onto an existing house (replace "house" with any other kind of building). Say you want a house that has 2 bedrooms, a sitting room, a kitchen, a garden, and storage; it tells you how to build it, how long to build it, and the costs to build it (or buy a completed one).
"How much does it cost to buy this land?" is a campaign-specific question (in some places you don't need to buy unclaimed land at all, in some places you're only borrowing the land from the royals and aren't actually buying anything).
By the way, how young are we talking about for young characters here? Since the standard Pathfinder rules permit human characters as young as 16, I am guessing that we are looking at the 12-15 age range (or equivalent age for non-humans) -- maybe as young as 10, but probably not much younger. I suspect that there comes a point where a young character is just too far short of adult capabilities to be a viable player character -- but an "almost adult" of early adolescent age is probably an ideal starting point.
IIRC a child would usually be made into an Apprentice or Page at the age of 8...
Seeing the "necroed" traps thread pop back up got me thinking. . .
QUESTION: What with rules addressing stronghold & building construction as well as updated and expanded magic item crafting rules, will this book also address the "uber-wonky" rules for crafting traps?
(Note: "uber-wonky" is an entirely subjective term.)
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There isn't a thing about this game that isn't optional. Everything is optional, depending on your GM.Of course, but certain parts of the game are still assumed to be part of the core experience, such as skills, feats, spells, armor class, hit points, etc. A GM always has the option of removing or tweaking those rules but they're still considered to be part of the core game by the gaming community as a whole. Labeling something as optional removes any confusion that inclusion of the optional subsystem might result in.
I always sort of assumed that anything not in the Core Rulebook was considered optional.
Beyond that, if a player isn't going to accept the "It's your game" rule at the very beginning of the Core Rulebook or the "Consult with your GM before picking one of these options" advice put into the Advanced Player's Guide, I don't know that specifically labeling something as optional is really going to sway their opinions.
Wait you mean that at the moment we can't allow our players to retrain feats?!
Also, am I one of the few not thrilled by rules for young characters?
Apparently so! However, if you're the GM, what you say goes in your campaign, so if you don't want young characters just nix this section of the book.
Now, stand still while I find my digital +2 flaming burst pitchfork.
And by golly Jane! Wes! Young characters was partially YOUR project?! I'll just add that to the reasons I'm following you on Twitter.
Alex's Reasons for Following Wes on Twitter
1) Funny Commentary.
2) LOVES Gothic horror.
3) LOVES Lovecrath.
4) Cut of jib.
5) Young characters in roleplaying.
Can you give us an idea of what the rules look like? Are we talking new age categories for new stages of life, or a one-modifer-fits-all for youths and children and the like? Size modifiers?
I'm not super vocal about it, but if I was Mikaze, young character rules would be my Celestial Rage Totem Powers.
Can I get a link to Wes's Twitter thing so I can follow him?
Hmmph. So, what protections are Paizo offering me if these rules contradict what I've already done with my Leadership 25, ring of the Ecclesiarch-wielding cleric? Huh? She's got her whole temple nicely organized, and now you tempt our GM with rules for all of it?
]
I said it feels MMO-ish because it is in fact derived from MMO gamestyle. Why should you suddenly be able to retrain a feat? You suddenly gain expertise with a bastard sword instead of a long sword that you have been using for 15 levels! [Switching weapon focus]This has no place in a tabletop and shreds verisimilitude. So yes, feeling MMO is in fact a valid criticism. But if you want to be pleased the real reason I don't like it is a lack of verismilitude. It won't feel real, merely contrived.
Also I hate min-maxers. I'm not using that word lightly. They usually ruin games I run because most people I run with are not min-maxers. Just giving them more tools in their arsenal to ruin games. I think I would take a rules-lawyer over a min-maxer.
Ironically... I've never really played an MMO that allowed for retraining O.o Maybe some of them DID do it... but I wasn't high enough or something... so the MMO comparison doesn't even register with me...
As for verisimilitude... There are LOTS of thing that bust that up for me... RAW if your in the middle of the dungeon and level up... your 10th level rogue... can gain a 1st level wizard or bard or cleric and start casting spells...
Retraining?? I have no problem with that. SOME classes already CAN do it. This just opens the option up for OTHER classes to do the same thing. Sorcerers have a genetic ability to cast a specific spell... until they change their mind and 'forget how'... :-/
Considering how many new awesome character options come out with each book... I LIKE the option of backtracking and fixing the character a bit more to fit my original mindset...
So looks like I might have most of what I need to play a Dwarf Fortress or Reverse Dungeon adventure/campaign, with the building, group forming, mass battles and expanded kingdom building rules.
Publication Date: April 30, 2013
Thats 10 weeks from now - 70 days and counting... ;-)
The book may have a publication date of April 30th, but the release date has been pushed into May.
"10. Do Over! Ready for something different? Wish you hadn't taken that one suboptimal feat at first level? Eager to test out the newest base class? The choices you made yesterday don't have to sour the game you're playing today now that you have complete rules allowing characters to retrain class features, whether they be feats and skill ranks or entire class levels!"
Not for me or my group, fo sho. This will take min/maxing to an entirely new level.
Everything else looks great!
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As much as this resonates with me, the one that's really sticking out in my head is a Five Years Earlier series of adventures before Rise of the Runelords. :DOh dice gods... o.0
The rules for Young Characters... the first book of Curse of the Crimson Throne...
I think I may cry at all the awesome! Ex-Little Lamms that just escaped are going to be officially possible!
And now I'm seeing only-slightly-younger Merisiel trying to ride herd on ten-year-old Valeros, Seoni, and Kyra. :D
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And now I'm seeing only-slightly-younger Merisiel trying to ride herd on ten-year-old Valeros, Seoni, and Kyra. :DThis needs to happen.
I can't imagine Merisiel not being a terrible babysitter with hilarious results.
"Okay kids. Here are some nice knives to play with. Now go have fun while I watch TV."
It's nice to see that the book will have rules for buying businesses, but what I'd like from it is a bit simpler: will it have rules for buying a house (including the land the house is on)?It has rules for buying a finished house, building a house from scratch, or adding onto an existing house (replace "house" with any other kind of building). Say you want a house that has 2 bedrooms, a sitting room, a kitchen, a garden, and storage; it tells you how to build it, how long to build it, and the costs to build it (or buy a completed one).
"How much does it cost to buy this land?" is a campaign-specific question (in some places you don't need to buy unclaimed land at all, in some places you're only borrowing the land from the royals and aren't actually buying anything).
How does this mesh with the Cost of Living rules in the Core Rulebook?
One of my characters recently got a house in Ustalav for 100gp/month, per the cost of living rules. Does this new rule set mean that my character will lose his house, or otherwise be considered to not own it in full?
(I know we can run it how we want, but our group is a stickler for hard rules.)
I second Ravingdork's Question...
Cost of living, if I recall correctly is just that -- the cost to maintain that level of lifestyle: food, clothes, upkeep, taxes, etc. it cites rooms in inns or houses, etc. I never read it as the cost to buy a house.
Several of the city books, such as Korvosa & Absalom, gave prices for renting or owning buildings. I always took that as additional cost. Someone paying 100 / m to have a suite in an inn might have the same cost of living & general lifestyle/amenities, but someone who owns a townhouse should have had to shell out money to do so.
Yes, but it specifically says that, at 100gp/month, you have your own sizable home. At 10gp/month you can have a small house. 1000gp/month might even net you an entire castle of your own!
How is that going to interact with the new rules? Should the Cost of Living rule be like renting to own, or making payments on a mortgage; while the new rules are for buying a home outright?
I'm curious to know.
I'll assume you won't get a specific detailed answer with charts/formula/examples til the product is released. Til then just go with the way you have been?
I think the Cost of Living is more of the renting said building from a lord...
Yes, but it specifically says that, at 100gp/month, you have your own sizable home. At 10gp/month you can have a small house. 1000gp/month might even net you an entire castle of your own!
How is that going to interact with the new rules? Should the Cost of Living rule be like renting to own, or making payments on a mortgage; while the new rules are for buying a home outright?
I'm curious to know.
Agreed, but I always took those bits as benchmarks for home types that equalled that lifestyle, not the purchase of the property itself.
The figures for cost of living in the Core Rulebook are a "shortcut" for games where accounting every gp is not worth the time. They are world-neutral, so world-specific books like the Guide to Absolom and the Guide to Korvosa would supersede them in world-specific games. Unfortunately, the only Golarion-based books I know of that give specific costs for purchasing or renting houses in these cities are all 3.5-era, and pre-date the figures in the CRB.
Also, only the 1,000 gp per month "Extravagant" level even mentions that the PC might own the house.
So.. ultimately, I expect we will see advice along the lines of "some cities may increase the cost of living by 50%, 100%, or more, as the GM decides is appropriate". If, that is, it is even mentioned.
100 gp/month for cost of living in a small town in Ustalav may be "Wealthy", but the same amount in Absolom, for example, could be "Poor".
It also occurs to me that, in addition to the costs being ajusted for where you are, in some neighborhoods, you may not be able to choose to live at some levels. The poorest docks of Riddleport may not have any place for you to live "Extravagant", while the richest neighborhoods Absolom might have a minimum living standard of "Average".
This is the kind of world-building detail that helps separate one city from another in a campaign, so it is one of the things I am looking forward to seeing in the book.
Also, only the 1,000 gp per month "Extravagant" level even mentions that the PC might own .
Fixed that for you.
I imagine any change they do to 'cost of living' like this will be 'optional rules'
Much like the words of power,gladiator combat, AC as damage Reduction stuff from the earlier books.
doesn't replace what we already have... but a more indepth version for those that want it...
It's nice to see that the book will have rules for buying businesses, but what I'd like from it is a bit simpler: will it have rules for buying a house (including the land the house is on)?It has rules for buying a finished house, building a house from scratch, or adding onto an existing house (replace "house" with any other kind of building). Say you want a house that has 2 bedrooms, a sitting room, a kitchen, a garden, and storage; it tells you how to build it, how long to build it, and the costs to build it (or buy a completed one).
"How much does it cost to buy this land?" is a campaign-specific question (in some places you don't need to buy unclaimed land at all, in some places you're only borrowing the land from the royals and aren't actually buying anything).
How does this mesh with the Cost of Living rules in the Core Rulebook?
One of my characters recently got a house in Ustalav for 100gp/month, per the cost of living rules. Does this new rule set mean that my character will lose his house, or otherwise be considered to not own it in full?
(I know we can run it how we want, but our group is a stickler for hard rules.)
If your character was only paying the monthly fee, you can asume that he was paying the interests of a mortage and when he pays the house/castle/villa he gets a permanent discount in his monthly fee (1% of the value of the house if you want a fast rule).
The house will be stilll be fully yours, only that you must cancel the mortage before selling or cancel the the mortage with the sale.
Humbly,
Yawar
It's nice to see that the book will have rules for buying businesses, but what I'd like from it is a bit simpler: will it have rules for buying a house (including the land the house is on)?It has rules for buying a finished house, building a house from scratch, or adding onto an existing house (replace "house" with any other kind of building). Say you want a house that has 2 bedrooms, a sitting room, a kitchen, a garden, and storage; it tells you how to build it, how long to build it, and the costs to build it (or buy a completed one).
"How much does it cost to buy this land?" is a campaign-specific question (in some places you don't need to buy unclaimed land at all, in some places you're only borrowing the land from the royals and aren't actually buying anything).
Does this means that the book doesn't have rules or guidelines to buying lordship over a land or other nobiliary titles?
Humbly,
Yawar
That also sounds like a campaign-specific question.
WANT.
(Also, we're super-interested in those house-buying rules and other general living stuff for quite a number of different campaigns!)
That also sounds like a campaign-specific question.
By that logic the price of food is a campaing-specific detail, rice needs lots of water so it should be more expensive in dry areas. The price of a castle should be higher in areas where the stones must be imported or the land required special treatment before starting to build.
Having table for prices of lordships or anything under default circumstances is, by virtue of rule zero, a guideline. So no, even if there is a table for that, you can buy lordship on a constitutional democracy or there isn't someone willing to sale.
Humbly,
Yawar
I hope the Kingdom rules don't rely on Magic Economy like this did in the King Maker AP. While his worked it was king of odd.
I hope the Kingdom rules don't rely on Magic Economy like this did in the King Maker AP. While his worked it was king of odd
That also sounds like a campaign-specific question.By that logic the price of food is a campaing-specific detail, rice needs lots of water so it should be more expensive in dry areas. The price of a castle should be higher in areas where the stones must be imported or the land required special treatment before starting to build.
The idea of whether or not you can "purchase" noble titles is in itself a campaign-specific issue. On Golarion, it might be something allowed in Cheliax, Druma, Isger, or Sargava, but not in Taldor or Osirian. And the prices for it are certain to vary widely in each of those realms, as would the definition of what such a title means. (Is "duke" the same in Cheliax as it is in Druma? Does Druma even have the equivalent to a "duke"? Is the cost of buying "duke" as your title in Sargava anything like the cost in Cheliax?).
That's two or more levels of abstraction. Add in that the core rulebooks don't reference campaign setting material at all and you're at three levels of abstraction, at which point you're just making guesses with no grounding in any usable data.
Who said anything about titles? I just want a house.
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^ That was in response to this post, I think.
It's nice to see that the book will have rules for buying businesses, but what I'd like from it is a bit simpler: will it have rules for buying a house (including the land the house is on)?It has rules for buying a finished house, building a house from scratch, or adding onto an existing house (replace "house" with any other kind of building). Say you want a house that has 2 bedrooms, a sitting room, a kitchen, a garden, and storage; it tells you how to build it, how long to build it, and the costs to build it (or buy a completed one).
"How much does it cost to buy this land?" is a campaign-specific question (in some places you don't need to buy unclaimed land at all, in some places you're only borrowing the land from the royals and aren't actually buying anything).
Does this means that the book doesn't have rules or guidelines to buying lordship over a land or other nobiliary titles?
Humbly,
Yawar
Ok this looks a lot more interesting than i first thought when i heard about ultimate campaign.