Like I said - it was just a gut reaction to it. Since I haven't really read the whole class over in detail, I can't really back up that feeling with specifics. Thankfully, I haven't had any of my players request to play one yet. It's not that I have anything against the class, but for me, they don't seem to fit the theme of swords/spells/dragons I aim for in the games I run.
EDIT: It's the same reason why there probably won't be any ninjas or gunslingers in my games either. But, I guess that's the point of having so much choice. Everyone can use/not use whatever they want for the games they're playing.
+1 to your edit sir. Choice is what makes this game fun.
May I offer my 2 cp: Alchemists are really fun. The concept of alchemy may not be in everyone's vision of Sword and Sorcery like it is in my groups games, but the Alchemist can take the place of the Wizard in a group and still have a pretty potent effect, power wise.
The bombs are splash weapons that get the alchemist's int mod to damage, even splash, which is nice, but can also blow up the party before a certain level. It is definitely a double edged sword for a while. The mutagen can make he alchemist an able combatant, especially if you take the feral mutagen paths and go Master Chymist with it. Not as good as a fighter, but fun and still pretty powerful.
Flavor perspective, there's nothing like having a tinkerer and experimenter in a group. It can be really good for RP when the alchemist does something crazy and the party's like wtf did you just do? but it's beneficial, so it's cool. Especially if he plays it out well, the mad scientist aspect of the alchemist is awesome for RP.
From what I read on the alchemist alt.. Sounds like what I thought master chemist would end up doing is actually getting rolled in to alchemist. In other words the ability to focus on the mutagen and a little bit of extracts instead of pretty much going bomberman.
Master chymist still doesn't seem to even be worthy of a PRC other than for people who just wanted to play a "smart" barbarian.
I see the Master Chymist as being for people who want to get their Jekyll and Hyde groove on. That or run a character who's basically the Incredible Hulk.
I really hope that "Anthropomorphic Animal" could somehow be used on PCs. That would be great for me :D As I'm sick of playing humans.
I'd like to see that too. Though if you can't wait and are willing to give it a shot, there are some ideas along those lines in Skortched Urf's book "Fursona", whch is available here on the site.
From what I read on the alchemist alt.. Sounds like what I thought master chemist would end up doing is actually getting rolled in to alchemist. In other words the ability to focus on the mutagen and a little bit of extracts instead of pretty much going bomberman.
Master chymist still doesn't seem to even be worthy of a PRC other than for people who just wanted to play a "smart" barbarian.
I see the Master Chymist as being for people who want to get their Jekyll and Hyde groove on. That or run a character who's basically the Incredible Hulk.
Well that was what it seemed it wanted to be, but other than roleplaying it out the only real mechanic there was an alignment switch and then all these cool mutagen powers being tied to a PrC instead of the class.
Lack of a real capstone and other supportive abilities, that really could have been mostly just RP oriented like much of the assassin's abilities just make it seem more of just Hulk and less Jeckle/Hyde.
I really hope that "Anthropomorphic Animal" could somehow be used on PCs. That would be great for me :D As I'm sick of playing humans.I'd like to see that too. Though if you can't wait and are willing to give it a shot, there are some ideas along those lines in Skortched Urf's book "Fursona", whch is available here on the site.
I'd love too, but my DM is one of the "core nuts" who doesn't like anything outside the core rules and what he homebrews.
Edit, also after reading the reviews.. It sounds like it does the thing I really dislike about the fandom. Don't really need book of erotic fantasy: furry edition.
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Of course a Storm Lord archetype for druid comes out after my society druid hits level 12. But my response is still this.
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Like I said - it was just a gut reaction to it. Since I haven't really read the whole class over in detail, I can't really back up that feeling with specifics. Thankfully, I haven't had any of my players request to play one yet. It's not that I have anything against the class, but for me, they don't seem to fit the theme of swords/spells/dragons I aim for in the games I run.
EDIT: It's the same reason why there probably won't be any ninjas or gunslingers in my games either. But, I guess that's the point of having so much choice. Everyone can use/not use whatever they want for the games they're playing.
Fair enough. I disagree completely with this, Alchemy is, IMO, PARAMOUNT to a fantasy world, since there isn't as much science, and as such the tinkerers of the fantasy world, so to speak, are the alchemists. Gives the world a mundane way of doing fantastic things that don't stem from magic. The one argument I will add is think of nearly any fantasy setting; somewhere there is the wizard/crazy guy/person tinkering with potions and fantastic items to be found. To me, I think alchemy absolutely fits in the swords/sorcery/dragon theme! Having played an alchemist from 1 to 10, I can assure you they are extremely fun, and SOMEONE has to make those alchemical items in mass quantities :)
But I am not going to try to persuade you otherwise, since its your game and you're free to play however you wish :) I was merely curious is all! Thanks for taking the time to explain your reasons!
Vancian wizards are more science-y then any other character. They sit in laboratories testing out new functions and formula and make use of advanced combinations of various items together. They aren't just point and thrusting their will on reality.
Plus you know, Jack Vance as a sci-fi writer.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Vancian wizards are more science-y then any other character. They sit in laboratories testing out new functions and formula and make use of advanced combinations of various items together. They aren't just point and thrusting their will on reality.
Plus you know, Jack Vance as a sci-fi writer.
Indeed, a lot of people would tell you that his Dying Earth series, upon which the magic system of D&D (and thus Pathfinder) is based, is science fiction and not fantasy at all.
Vancian wizards are more science-y then any other character. They sit in laboratories testing out new functions and formula and make use of advanced combinations of various items together. They aren't just point and thrusting their will on reality.
Plus you know, Jack Vance as a sci-fi writer.
Indeed, a lot of people would tell you that his Dying Earth series, upon which the magic system of D&D (and thus Pathfinder) is based, is science fiction and not fantasy at all.
Just shows what a great job he did with it.
*drools over archetypes*
Really glad I put off playing an Oracle, or a Witch, until later.
Also makes me want to try an Alchemist now.
How many Sorcerer bloodlines are there?
How is the book orginized(archtypes take up 32 pages so how many pages for spells, class abilities, feats, alternate magic system,etc.)?
Does the Pestilience bloodline(mother of flies) make it in the book?
How many new Oracle revelations are there?
Will there be rules for magical places(healing springs, wild/dead magic zones, living buildings,etc.)?
crystal dragon/sound elemental dual bloodline elven loli sorceress with a great wyrm paragon half sound elemental chaotic good dragonwrought kobold for a surrogate father.
Am I the only one hoping that either the Cloistered Cleric or the Theologian archetypes will be unarmored options?No more than one unarmored version please! I like armor on my favorite class.
But...you already have that option.
Nobody is taking that away. We just want, you know...new stuff.
I'm liking that the cleric archetype is an actual archetype, rather than just a bunch of new domains; I want to see the new class options offer *new* options, not just more of the same.
I'm very curious about the inquisitor exorcist archetype. I'm planning to create an inquisitor for a friend's upcoming Carrion Crown campaign and an exorcist might just fit the theme I'm aiming for.
So, will the exorcist be more of "true" exorcist, in that he just banishes evil spirits and scares evil outsiders out of possessed people? Or will he have some distinctive combat advantages against evil outsiders? Maybe a little of both? Hmmm...
I'm very curious about the inquisitor exorcist archetype. I'm planning to create an inquisitor for a friend's upcoming Carrion Crown campaign and an exorcist might just fit the theme I'm aiming for.
But, but, I don't see the "Spanish" archetype for the Inquistor.
This is certainly not what I expected.
That's because they don't want you to expect it.
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I'm very curious about the inquisitor exorcist archetype. I'm planning to create an inquisitor for a friend's upcoming Carrion Crown campaign and an exorcist might just fit the theme I'm aiming for.But, but, I don't see the "Spanish" archetype for the Inquistor.
This is certainly not what I expected.
I think this thread can end, I think you sir have won.
I might go back to 1st edition.
the archetype named the Dragon Shaman just mapes me think of the dragon shaman from PHB 2. If so I'd like my Warlock from that book, lol.
Reanimator just reminds me of the mad scientist in the film Reanimator.
the archetype named the Dragon Shaman just mapes me think of the dragon shaman from PHB 2. If so I'd like my Warlock from that book, lol.
Reanimator just reminds me of the mad scientist in the film Reanimator.
Since the base Alchemist is Dr Jekyl, and vivisectionist is Dr Mureau, reanimator is probably Dr Frankenstein.
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Since the base Alchemist is Dr Jekyl, and vivisectionist is Dr Mureau, reanimator is probably Dr Frankenstein.the archetype named the Dragon Shaman just mapes me think of the dragon shaman from PHB 2. If so I'd like my Warlock from that book, lol.
Reanimator just reminds me of the mad scientist in the film Reanimator.
And the internal alchemist is Fu Manchu.
i think i see the problem with cleric archtypes and having the domains fit those bills. i say this what class feature are you going to replace? spell casting surely not. channel energy that can go i suspose but wow talk about ripping out its core. sooo domain abilitys lets replace those... wait isn't that what we do with other domains? we could give them an animal companion.... o wait theres a domain that does that... and ofcourse the druid.. how about rage o wait etc. etc. etc. the domains kind of cover it i think
I'm very curious about the inquisitor exorcist archetype. I'm planning to create an inquisitor for a friend's upcoming Carrion Crown campaign and an exorcist might just fit the theme I'm aiming for.But, but, I don't see the "Spanish" archetype for the Inquistor.
This is certainly not what I expected.
But, but, nobody expects them. Why'd you think you could? And how could you expect TPTB to expect them? Even they couldn't expect the Spanish Inquisitor.
Is it wrong of me to be excited for something potentially old and rehashed? I'm stoked over the Cloistered Cleric. But I guess the other stuff might be cool too. Really, really cool. Must... wait... a little longer! >.<
i think i see the problem with cleric archtypes and having the domains fit those bills. i say this what class feature are you going to replace? spell casting surely not. channel energy that can go i suspose but wow talk about ripping out its core. sooo domain abilitys lets replace those... wait isn't that what we do with other domains? we could give them an animal companion.... o wait theres a domain that does that... and ofcourse the druid.. how about rage o wait etc. etc. etc. the domains kind of cover it i think
That is indeed part of the stated problem; full casters don't have a lot of class features they can trade.
However, if the Cloistered Cleric is what I think it is, then it's going to be sacrificing its Mid BAB for Poor BAB, amongst other things. (Our first Poor BAB divine caster! Huzzah?)
your concept of a low bab divine caster intrigues me sir. one would have to wonder what to give them to make up for this.
your concept of a low bab divine caster intrigues me sir. one would have to wonder what to give them to make up for this.
Cloistered Cleric - maybe they simply skip the armour prof.? Cloistered Cleric sound for me like a european monk.
your concept of a low bab divine caster intrigues me sir. one would have to wonder what to give them to make up for this.
Well, here's the 3.5 version.
Poor BAB, HD: d6
To sum up, he gets 6 skills + Int per level, some more class skills, Lore, and the Knowledge Domain as an extra domain. (So you start out with 3 domains.) I guess some extra spells were added to his spell list too.
...but TPTB of Pathfinder might have some other things in mind. We shall see. ^^
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I'm liking that the cleric archetype is an actual archetype, rather than just a bunch of new domains; I want to see the new class options offer *new* options, not just more of the same.
Agreed! This was my biggest disappointment with the APG. Actually it might have been my only one, as I can't actually think of any others at the moment...
I'm very curious about the inquisitor exorcist archetype. I'm planning to create an inquisitor for a friend's upcoming Carrion Crown campaign and an exorcist might just fit the theme I'm aiming for.But, but, I don't see the "Spanish" archetype for the Inquistor.
This is certainly not what I expected.
Just wait - I bet there *will* be a spanish archetype. That way, when everyone gets the book, they'll be totally unexpected.
Well, now you're kinda expecting them aren't you? Means they probably won't appear in this book...
I'd say Imrijka had that angle covered pretty well already. :)
She just needs two sisters with the appropriate hats.
LoL. :)
I'd say Imrijka had that angle covered pretty well already. :)
She just needs two sisters with the appropriate hats.
That vampire spawn on 321 certainly did not expect the Orcish Inquisition!
Since the base Alchemist is Dr Jekyl, and vivisectionist is Dr Mureau, reanimator is probably Dr Frankenstein.
Him or Doctor Herbert West.
Since the base Alchemist is Dr Jekyl, and vivisectionist is Dr Mureau, reanimator is probably Dr Frankenstein.Him or Doctor Herbert West.
But which archetype is Doctor Venture?
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Y'know, I'm really kind of hoping the evolutionist is a Summoner variant that forgoes summoning and the Eidolon in favor of applying evolutions to himself right from the start.
Sure he wouldn't be anything close to the word "Summoner" any more, but I'd love to see an evolving/transhuman/metamorphosing-every-level character option for some really exotic culture possibilities.
But which archetype is Doctor Venture?
Couple levels in Expert, I'd wager. ;)
Do you get a bonus if you say: "IT'S ALIIIIIIIVE!", when playing a Reanimator?
No, but you get it if you exclaim after every failure, "Damn it, not quite fresh enough." :)
(Lovecraft reference)
However, if the Cloistered Cleric is what I think it is, then it's going to be sacrificing its Mid BAB for Poor BAB, amongst other things. (Our first Poor BAB divine caster! Huzzah?)So far archetypes have never altered a base class's BAB, saving throws, hit dice, or skill ranks. Not saying they won't eventually do that, but I kinda doubt it.
I have seen a handful that do alter proficiency, and class skills though.
Based on.. well developer instinct, I'd say we are probably fairly close to getting more of these sorts of fringe archtypes.
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I have seen a handful that do alter proficiency, and class skills though.However, if the Cloistered Cleric is what I think it is, then it's going to be sacrificing its Mid BAB for Poor BAB, amongst other things. (Our first Poor BAB divine caster! Huzzah?)So far archetypes have never altered a base class's BAB, saving throws, hit dice, or skill ranks. Not saying they won't eventually do that, but I kinda doubt it.
Indeed. If the cloistered cleric is intended to replicate the 3.5 class variant, I wouldn't be surprised to see the archetype drop the class down to light armor proficiency (no shields) and wizard weapon proficiencies.
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Indeed. If the cloistered cleric is intended to replicate the 3.5 class variant, I wouldn't be surprised to see the archetype drop the class down to light armor proficiency (no shields) and wizard weapon proficiencies.That's certainly possible. I will say, though, that Paizo hasn't typically "replicated" stuff done by WotC. Or rather, they tackle the same archetypes (ex. ninja, samurai), but do so in a much different way. So the cloistered cleric may indeed be lightly armored and lacking in weapon skills, but I don't think it'll be a clone of the version from Unearthed Arcana.
They haven't "cloned" things, but both the scout archetype (rogue) and the sandman archetype (bard) are pretty clearly linked mechanically to some 3.5 splatbook classes from WotC. I doubt the repetition of the name is coincidence, anymore than it was in the case of the scout.