Free Archetype: Oenopion Researcher (on AON) / Visionary Researcher [on D20] (I'll find the post where we got to pick a free archetype, I picked Phantom Thief on the other side because who the hell wouldn't want a Phantom Thief with Sneak Attack?). Granted, they only get half the benefits which is kind of pathetic. That, and I have the money to spare. Turns out, it doesn't cost more money to infuse a +10/+10/+10 mutagen then a +2 mutagen :)
...Free archetype, you say?
Just when I thought I was done building the character, I get pulled back in, lol.
Yep, it was posted here.
Free class archetype for both sides. I think I have a decent idea on what to go for.
Also, apparently companions gain a free archetype, a +2 template, AND a non-spellcasting Mythic template, meaning that I'm gonna have to bling out my familiar as well, it seems.
I'm hoping that Catzilla has the Daikaiju template added on as well.
And maybe even add the Consuming Creature template
Catzilla does indeed have the Daikaiju template!
I had not considered Consuming Creature, but if I were to use that, I would definitely need some more time to work out which abilities Catzilla has consumed.
If people are okay with continuing to wait another week or so(I have some doc appointments this week, an IRL game tomorrow, etc), I'll really create a true monstrosity, LOL
I'm hoping that Catzilla has the Daikaiju template added on as well.
And maybe even add the Consuming Creature template
Catzilla does indeed have the Daikaiju template!
I had not considered Consuming Creature, but if I were to use that, I would definitely need some more time to work out which abilities Catzilla has consumed.
If people are okay with continuing to wait another week or so(I have some doc appointments this week, an IRL game tomorrow, etc), I'll really create a true monstrosity, LOL
By all means, take as much time as you need. I'm interested in seeing how you challenge a bunch of high level mythic gestalt characters. Feel free to apply Hero Killer and anything else as well. Aside from the Danava Pillars, I'd also suggest that the Cat consume abilities from both a Lawful and Chaotic Irii, as well as perhaps even a Grim Reaper.
In other news, you mentioned here that class companions could gain a free +2 template, among other goodies.
I wanted to ask if the Nigh-Invulnerable Creature Template would be kosher for a companion creature.
Wait. Gunchemist apparently stacks with the one I used for free archetype?!
Oh, now I have a horrifying idea. I'll probably work on it later, but it'll replace rogue with Investigator to get a ~40d6 per bullet attack.
|
Oh I missed the run it by him part
I have the build for my companion in my bio the template I used is Shadow Animal it's a pretty basic template that really is mostly for theme but also adds a couple useful abilities to aid in combat
Ya know, I was lookin at the Nigh-Invulnerable Creature for Catzilla, but I thought it was way too strong, lol
I suppose since it's entirely defensive in nature, it should be okay for a companion.
Shadow Animal is approved.
I have to ask dose Mythic Trumps epic, when you have mythic Stat drain does that bust past the Epic immunity
I have to ask dose Mythic Trumps epic, when you have mythic Stat drain does that bust past the Epic immunity
Can you give me a specific example of which mythic ability you're referring to, along with the corresponding epic immunity?
|
|
Looking through the epic level Handbook right now and it just struck me, are we able to buy stat boosters higher than +12? It says:
The required caster level increases by 3 for every increment and the market price equals the enhancement bonus squared x 25,000.
So in theory it would cost like 6400000 for a +16 headband and would require a level 34 Caster, which by Epic levels would be doable. I'm good with whatever though, I just like numbers that end with 0 lol
Well, with the familiar sorted, I think I'm pretty much done.
I decided to focus a bit more on defenses, so as a result, my consistent DPR caps out at around 2.1k in a full attack. I cut out a lot of crit shenanigans that would have pushed it to 3k and beyond.
In return, I'm fairly difficult to take down... at least via conventional means.
I still have about 1.3 million gold in the bank, but I'm fine with my stats the way they are now, and I have pretty much everything I want.
I'm interested in seeing how strong Catzilla is going to end up being. Cuz Henry Pascal, as he is now, is quite a formidable opponent.
Ugh, there's gonna end up being some really weird stacking of templates.
The Cataclysm template sets the CR to 25 and HD to 30, but everything is else are bonuses to base stats.
Meanwhile, the Daikaiju sets HD to 32, sets Str, Dex, Con, and Int to statics, and then grants bonuses to everything else.
I think I'm gonna need to sorta mashup those two, and use use the static attributes and then apply whatever bonuses all the various templates grant.
Which means I gotta fully re-work Catzilla, including some additional templates.
I am still trying to avoid spell casting, but I think there's gonna end up being some spell-like abilities and obviously a bunch of supernatural ones.
Would ya'll be okay with that??
Gonna make a separate post for this, cuz it's fairly important:
How would ya'll feel if I use the 3.0 epic template, Paragon and the 3.5 uber Paragon upgrade from Immortal Ascension bestiary, the Amidah??
These would be in addition to all the other templates.
The Amidah changes all hit dice to d100s(and gives max HP), adds +60 to pretty much all stats, an additional +75 to it's ability scores, and some other, similar massive bonuses. These don't stack with the bonuses from Paragon, but Paragon does add some other bonuses the Amidah does not.
If ya'll approve, I would consider maybe increasing everyone's level to 40 or even 50, assuming you guys think it's necessary.
I want everybody to weigh in on all of this before I make any decisions.
Well, now that I have a vague idea of what the Catzilla is... I might give John some more abilities [i.e. make him, mechanically, a bit more than human], and yeah considering every 2 levels gives me 6d6, I'd be fine with 50.
Please note, I will *not* be adding either Paragon and/or Amidah *without* the expression permission of each player. Cuz they will both add an awful lot to an already really powerful foe.
I'm all for it. Add whatever crazy template you think makes sense. We're all dealing like 1-2k damage per round, so maxed out d100s are probably a necessity.
I also don't think that we need the extra 10 levels. PCs at this stage are generally already more powerful than you might think.
I'm one for a few extra levels, but yeah 50 is definitely a bit too far thinking on it.
Epic Fighter sucks absolute ass (worst Epic Jesse content by FAR), but Epic Barbarian is pretty broken, so I'm kinda torn on the idea of extra levels. I'd probably have to take a prestige class on the Fighter side or some s$@@.
Probably the Heritor Knight. Hell, at 40 levels, maybe I should just go for another 20 level base class on top of Fighter, like Monk, perhaps?
Eh, I'd rather not think about it.
Let's try it at level 30 first, and then if we TPK, we can try again at level 40?
I'm not overly worried about the amount of damage you guys can do to Catzilla, I'm worried ya'll won't even be able to hit Catzilla cuz of crazy high AC...
I'd be surprised if our resident Psi-God wasn't packing Euterpe's Prophetic Song + Mythic Insight to help us out with that.
...of course, even then, there are limits.
I'm intrigued as to how high this thing's stats are. I wonder how high I'd have to boost my attack rolls to parry it.
Oh yeah, worst case scenario, we could try to... Wish spam, in order to land hits against it? Auto-hit is one of the specific functions of Limited Wish, I believe.
Though I guess at that point, you're probably better off copying Dimensional Blade to make all of your attacks for one round be touch attacks.
I am fine with you adding more templates.
Now that I have said that, I don't know that I am capable of putting out that much damage. I think that if everything hits I can do maybe 700 damage plus maybe a quickened spell. I'm going to have to post my build and if anyone wants to look at it I'll entertain ideas.
Just to give the basics:
Side A (Full BAB)
Fighter 20 levels (fighter damage bumps and feats)
Paladin 9 levels (CHA to saves)
Monk 1 level (CHA to AC)
Free Archetypes (Archetype Packages RRG)
Scout (Ranger) 20 (Favored Enemy)
Domain Servant 10 (Cleric) (Glory Domain powers)
Side B (Dragon Disciple)
Sorcerer 20
Dragon Disciple 10
Free Archetypes (Archetype Packages RRG)
Heritage 20 (Sorcerer) (Metamagic tomfoolery)
Arcane Master 10 (Wizard) (Aether School, more force spells)
The idea is become use form of the alien dragon III Mythic and close and use his 6 attacks and quickened force spells for damage.
From what we have been told Force was the only damage I have seen he isn't immune to so I've been looking for ways to exploit that. Lord forbid we hit an anti magic area or a lot of damage disappears. That is why I have the fighter and it's feats and abilities. I played a version of this character and fought a dragon who had an anti magic shell around it. Most of the group was rather useless because everyone's ability to do damage was based on magic somehow.
Here is the alias. It is still a work in progress.
Oh if I'm having trouble hitting it, give me two more levels!
Oh if I'm having trouble hitting it, give me two more levels!
Curious, what happens in two levels??
Also, touch AC might end up being stupid high cuz of all the template stacking. That's my big worry....
Deadly Bombs! I don't Need to target Touch AC anymore. I can just use splash famage.The question then: how high is the reflex and does it have evasion?
For what it's worth, I can get a stupidly high CMB check, if need be. And I don't really care about enemy size, at that.
Depends on what templates I end up using, lol
That Amidah uber template? It adds a +60 luck bonus to all saves, and +75 to all ability scores(which I mentioned in my first post about it).
This is why I am asking for everybody to weigh in on the templates and not just going with the 'use whatever crazy templates ya want!' mentality some of you seem to have...
I'll probably see how high I can crank John if I ditch the "mere human" thing, and then I'll get back to you. I'll decline the templates if there's no way he can even make a dent, but if he can, I'll probably ask for one or the other.
How utterly nonsense do people wanna get?? I mean like straight up bat-sh!x crazy pants??
Cuz, I haz really horrific ideas, for PCs and Catzilla if yer down for the madness, LOL
I doubt anyone has a save DC high enough to threaten themselves, let alone be a threat to the big boss. Though admittedly, if it also has stuff like stalwart and evasion, it might be annoying for any spellcasters to have to rely on other means to deal with it.
The +75 to all ability scores also kinda doesn't mean much on it's own. If it's like, 5 + 75 = 80, then it's stats aren't all that much better than our own, lol.
Now, if it's end stats are like, 200+, then sure, I can definitely see how this might be difficult, or even borderline impossible.
Ultimately, we'd need a bit more information as to the cat's current statistics.
Either that, or we'd need to go heavy on 3pp and absolute chicanery to start guaranteeing automatic hits on a consistent basis.
But like I said, it might not be impossible, if everyone helps each other. Spellcasters casting Limited Wish to make the martials automatically land their blows should always be a viable tactic. And I'm assuming that spellcasting resources shouldn't be too much of an issue at this level.
That said, what I'm describing is kind of best case scenario, and can just as easily go wrong. Still, I'm intrigued at the notion of having a difficult, seemingly insurmountable fight at such a high power level.
You could always do what one of my first epic gestalt GM did, and watch to see if the battle is going sideways, then give it a massive weak spot we could target for insane extra damage, along the lines of the Nigh-Invulnerable Creature template.
If you get too crazy with templates very little is going to harm it. If saves are so high it laughs at our DCs then you figure it is going to save and build to that. But with evasion now those spells are meaningless. I guess it can always roll a 1. Now you look for spells with no save and hope you can beat it's SR (if any). How much damage can a magic missile do? That leaves dedicated caster's just buffing. Those that can cast can do a quickened true strike to help with hitting.
It's all theoretical for me until I see what my final hit and dam is.
If you give us much more power we will be gods. Heck might be able to take one down now.
Most Demigods and published deities are in the realm of CR 30, so I'd kind of hope that all of our level 30 gestalt + mythic tier 10 characters should be capable of taking down most, if not all of them without too much issue 1v1.
The published pathfinder ones, that is.
Obviously, 3.5 and earlier editions had some published deities with multiple divine ranks and like, way way way more than 30 CR. Those, I'm not so sure about.
Before the rework(which I haven't started just yet, as we're still discussing things), and the addition of any newer templates(including Paragon and Amidah), Catzilla's normal AC was 167...
Level 50.
Gestalt mythic paths. This includes 10 more mythic feats.
WBL: 2,275,000,000. Nothing is capped any longer. I would suggest some epic spells, maybe? lol
Out of curiosity, how would people feel about making use of my discord for ease of discussion, and more ready access to me for any/all questions??
Game itself would still take place here on Paizo, we just use discord to replace this thread.
The above changes are only if the players are okay with my using the Paragon and Amidah templates. Otherwise, characters will stay at the prior levels/wealth/etc.
I'd kind of prefer no Paragon and Amidah if it means we have to reconfigure characters entirely to such a drastic extent.
167 AC isn't in the realm of impossibility. Let's try a battle for now, and then consider a followup battle later with the offending templates at the proposed level... maybe with different characters.
What was Catzilla's Reflex, Fortitude, and Touch before the rework? No matter what I think John can pull off damage, with a combination of exploding bullets, frost bombs, and Deadly Bombs. The problem is how much damage.
But yeah if we do the rework, I'll likely come up with a different character, for sure.
Alrighty, what we're gonna do is this:
I will keep my original intended version of Catzilla(though I still to rework him cuz of the weirdness of some of the templates I mentioned above). PCs will stay exactly how they are. I won't be using the Consuming Creature, Paragon, or Amidah templates(or any other ones I wasn't originally planning on).
However
If everybody wants, we can also(after this first combat) do an entirely different one with the above templates, along with the extra rules changes. I'll also adjust some other stuff like base races, monsters, templates, etc.
How does that all sound?
Sounds alright, sure.
2 more levels? (Mostly joking, I'm confident John has an unavoidable damage method [Deadly Bombs + Fort Save Bomb Discovery + Exploding Bullet] if he has Deadly Bombs, but it's not too much damage)
I'll still need to adjust John to be Gunchem/Onoepion & Vivi on one end, and Investigator on the other to get that... what, 44d6?
But yeah, sounds good.
Gets my vote, be fund to try some goes see how this plays out.
Just so we get an idea, whats a ball park for Catzilla touch AC?
I don't think I can hit an AC of 167. Including true strike I am calculating 1d20+118. I am probably a little off but I doubt I'm off enough to hit 167.
30 BAB + 37 STR + 4 Weapon Training + 10 Amulet of Mighty Fists + 10 Favored Enemy + 5 Weapon Focus et all + 2 luck bonus + 20 True Strike = 118.
So, Henry's at 30 BAB + 25 STR + 8 Weapon Training (Alternate Capstone + Gloves of Dueling) + 4 (morale) + 2 (competence) + 2 (luck) + 5 (Weapon Enhancement) + 1 (weapon focus) = 77
With Rage, his STR increases by 8 (+4 to hit)
Shapechange Form of the Dragon increases STR by 10 (+5 to hit) but makes him Huge (-2 to hit)
And lastly, Mutagen increases his STR by 8 (+4 to hit)
That raises his to hit up to +88
Recklesss Abandon can be used, for a +8 to hit bonus at the cost of -8 AC
Furious Weapon activates on rage, for a +2 increased enhancement bonus.
This raises my to hit to +98
With Ever Ready, my AoOs gain an additional +12 bonus, so on those I'd have about +110 or so. Roughly equivalent to the other guy.
If our Psion has access to the power, Euterpe's Prophetic Song, and the Mythic Insight ability from Path of the Overmind, then there's a chance that they can increase our rolls by another +32 or so, which would put us around +142, which is almost in striking range, so long as we get a few other team boosts.
Maybe I could adjust my familiar a bit for better Aid another, or perhaps some flanking shenanigans?
I feel like there was a feat out there that let you open yourself up to a free attack by the enemy, but in return, you could auto-hit them. Like, you used their attack to guide your own or something. Alas for the life of me, I can't find such a feat anywhere, though.
If I remake this character, I'm definitely gonna have to throw in some Path of War shenanigans to make this easier.
Worst comes to worst, there's always spamming Limited Wish to auto-hit. Not that Henry Pascal can do such a thing.
That said, Henry could always try to fall back on his final trump card - his titanic CMB.
Strength Surge + Mighty Surge + Improved Rage Power = +90 bonus to CMB on demand.
Might be able to legit grapple that thing.
Though if his touch AC is high, then it probably means that the dude has high deflection, and as such would have high CMD as well.
Everything remains to be seen.
Pretty much means 20s are needed to hit. I figured as such, and given how much work goes into making a character with such rules I'm not really interested in tinkering anymore. Basically, my plan, should this fight start, Bolvar will just keep attacking and hope for a 20. And if that happens with one of his slams? Then he can try for a free grapple, which if it works, should make this easier.
Honestly, with all the attacks we can presumably make in a round, it's probably not difficult to just fish for natural 20s.
Though, this will definitely make me go back to the critical shenanigans.
Gotta optimize the hits whenever you can get them in, I suppose.
Again this was before the rework, so I have no idea what the actual final numbers will be, but 117 of that above 167 AC was from natural armor. Which, I do not believe is added to touch AC...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Again this was before the rework, so I have no idea what the actual final numbers will be, but 117 of that above 167 AC was from natural armor. Which, I do not believe is added to touch AC...
There's an insanely good template I could tell you about, but I'm not so sure it's a good idea right now, lol.