Dreadfulness in Dunwich PF1e+

Game Master DeJoker

Bale Keep Map

Dunwich:

Dunwich is a somewhat backwater fishing town situated on southern side of the Dunwater River and sandwiched between the Dunwater Marsh and the Monmurg Bay. This makes it tucked away on the south-western coast of the Kingdom of Keoland. Just north of Dunwich is a small monastery dedicated to Heironeous and Bale Keep which guards the road between the town of Saltmarsh and Burle. While further south are other small fishing villages and guard towers. Many folks from Dunwich serve as staff and support for the keep and the town tends to travelers between Saltmarsh and Burle.

This will be a semi-sandbox game based in a non-canon village located in the Viscounty of Salinmoor in the south-western region of Keoland which is located within the Sheldomar Valley within the western area of the Flanaess on the continent of Oerick on the planet Oereth. Dunwich is smaller but similar to its more famous cousin Saltmarsh which is located just to the northeast. As every character will have hailed from or hail from Dunwich there will be special Backgrounds to choose from that will tie the character more tightly into the village.


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CG Human Female (she/her/hers) Brawler 3 | HP: 40/40 AC 19 T 13 FF 16 F +6 R +6 W +5 | Martial Flexibility 4/4
DunwichStoryteller wrote:

First yes each glove is an individual weapon, one does not have to wear a pair as such, yes, you can lace one with cold iron in one and other with silver.

That being said again, they are individual weapons, and you have to enchant each one individually. It is like having a pair of daggers, they are not a single weapon but two individual weapons but yes there is magic that makes them a paired set of magical weapons.

Also, keep in mind that you can have individual foot weapons as well and if you are doing individual weapons you will need to be specific about what body part you are using, and you do have 9 different body weapons in total that are available: head, left hand, right hand, left elbow, right elbow, left knee, right knee, left shin, and right shin.

With a brawler or monk, my main interest in weapons is for the situations where a special material is needed for bypassing DR, such as cold iron or silver, and having at least one way to make attacks that overcome magic DR. Beyond that, it's simpler to just use unarmed attacks.

Just in case, however, I generally have questions about weapons like brass knuckles. They say monks are proficient, yet the weapons damage listed is 1d3 and the ability to do lethal damage with an unarmed attack. Monks (and brawlers) do more than 1d4 damage (at least 1d6) and can do lethal damage without the brass knuckles. That suggests to me that the brass knuckles would increase the damage done in some way. Same goes for any other weapon that might be worn on the feet, elbow, etc. Unless a weapon increases the unarmed damage over what a brawler ordinarily does, there's no point to using a weapon such as brass knuckles.


CG Human Female (she/her/hers) Brawler 3 | HP: 40/40 AC 19 T 13 FF 16 F +6 R +6 W +5 | Martial Flexibility 4/4

Something to keep in mind when creating a new character or leveling up a character, Jazlyn has the Martial Flexibility special ability which allows her the ability utilize feats she is qualified to take for short time (1 minute) 3 times a day. This means if someone wants a teamwork feat, when it is an advantage, Jazlyn can add that feat (if she has the prerequisites) and use the teamwork feats.

Check with me to see if Jazlyn can add a teamwork feat using martial flexibility. She has some feats already that are common prerequisites, like combat expertise, power attack, and combat reflexes (or just see her profile).


CG Human Female (she/her/hers) Brawler 3 | HP: 40/40 AC 19 T 13 FF 16 F +6 R +6 W +5 | Martial Flexibility 4/4

Questions about weapons.

Regarding the Cestus:

Dejoker wrote:
Those with Advanced Unarmed Combat (those whose unarmed strikes do increased damage die) instead can add a +1 to their Unarmed Strike Damage, gain the increased Critical Threat Range, and they can also use this weapon to fight defensively, gaining a +1 Shield Bonus to AC. If used paired, then one can be used defensively while the other used to attack just like fighting with a sword and shield with no penalty for duel wielding.

When you say "use this weapon to fight defensively, do you mean to rule of the same name which states, "You can choose to fight defensively when attacking. If you do so, you take a –4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC until the start of your next turn."

Or is this just descriptive text indicating using one hand with a cestus as a deflecting device, like a buckler, while fighting at no penalty with the other hand for attacks?

Does masterwork armor reduce the ACP by 1 as with standard masterwork rules?

Could Jazlyn get a +1 chain shirt (magic enhancement) for 1000 gp? If so, would it stack with a +1 MWK enhancement?

Jazlyn will focus on melee combat, but she has a sling for ranged attacks if needed. Can slings be made into MWK versions or are they too simple, like the handwraps? I think MWK sling bullets could be made for increased damage. Would it work as with standard rules, with the cost rules applying to 50 pieces of ammunition?

I have always been annoyed that all role playing rules seem to think that slings are less effective with less range than a bow. This is contradicted by historical references to slings in ancient and medieval warfare. See this article in Scientific American, The Sling as a Weapon. I can't embed the link, but search with the following "Scientific American Sling article pdf" and click on the link to Primative luky. It is a pdf of the article.

I'd encourage house rules to give the sling more damage and range.


Sun-Dapple Grün wrote:
Salaha Driftmare wrote:
Salaha takes another attack with her crossbow, hoping to hit an enemy for once

If you do hit, should be 1d8 damage, no? I'm not familiar with the build... could be wrong.

Grun appreciates ALL the support, he's going... commando!

Wait, that sounded wrong :)

i think underwater light crossbow is d6.

i think


Jazlyn Reponse:
First what I mean by fighting defensively is actually covered in that last sentences where it says: "If used paired, then one can be used defensively while the other used to attack just like fighting with a sword and sheild with no penalty for duel wielding." or per se fighting defensively. That being said, a Cestus thus can be used either as a weapon or as a Buckler but that does have to be declared at the beginning of the round and lasts until the beginning of the weilder's next round. Also I updated the Cestus, it is a full round action to don a single Cestus. I will post the guidelines for Brass Knuckles (or Cold Iron or Silver Knuckles). Also note because Brass Knuckles and the Cestus are simply extensions of Unarmed Combat I can see them getting enhanced Damage via Masterwork but not an enhanced To Hit as that would be enhancing ones basic ability to do Unarmed Combat and putting something non-magical on your hands is not going to improve your chance to hit.

As for missile weapons, I concur to a degree. First in my book a bullet, an arrow, or a bolt should do the same amount of damage regardless of the projectile weapon delivering it. The projectile weapon simply accounts for Range and perhaps Penetration (aka ignoring some armor which I can implement if everyone likes as I have already stated that out).

Next the basic Sling has an incremental range of 50 ft and cost basically nothing, while the Crossbow cost 35gp up to 100gp with an 80ft or 120ft range and the Bow, which is a Martial Weapon, cost 30gp to 125gp with a 60ft to 110ft range -- so yeah we do have to implement a bit of game mechanics balance into this mix where as reality might be slightly different. Still a basic Sling only has a 10ft less range increment compared to a Short Bow. So how much more range do you want for a Simple projectile weapon that basically costs nothing versus the Martial Weapon Short Bow that cost 30gp? Keep in mind that in my book the projectile weapon is really only about Range and Penetration and the damage just has to do with the ammo being used.

As to Masterworking a Sling, yes sadly because it, like Combatwraps, is so simplistic it simply cannot be Masterworked. I mean its Base Cost is 0 and 0 x 5 still equals 0. Now on the other hand the Sling Bullets can be Masterworked if you like and can be of Cold Iron or Silvered.

Still a Sling can be magicated if one wants and there are some Feats to help someone that wants to be more effective with a Sling.

Note back to Unarmed Strikes, so yes like Brass Knuckles and Cestus one can get individual weapons for the Elbows, Knees, Shins, and Head that could basically do what the Brass Knuckles and/or Cestus do. At least to some degree that is.

I have posted Brass Knuckles under the Campaign Tab.

Note: To imbed a link you simple do the following:

{url=https:/url-link}Link Name{/url}

And simply replace the { } with [ ]


Yes fatmanspencer the Light Crossbow whether regular or Underwater does do 1d6 damage.

Expanded Thoughts:
However, if we were to implement my guidelines where projectile weapons cover range and penetration then all Bolts and Arrows would do 1d6 damage and bullets would do 1d4.

Still looking at the mechanics what do we have when comparing the Simple Weapon Crossbow (and Sling) versus the Martial Weapon Bow :

Sling --- Simple Weapon Range: 50ft Damage: 1d4 Crit: 20/x2 Wgt: ** Reload: Move Action

Light Crossbow -- Simple Weapon Range: 80ft Damage: 1d6 Crit: 19/x2 Wgt: 4 lbs Reload: Move Action
Short Bow --- Martial Weapon Range: 60ft Damage: 1d6 Crit: 20/x3 Wgt: 2 lbs Reload: Free Action
Short Composite Bow -- Martial Weapon Range: 70ft Damage: 1d6 Crit: 20/x3 Wgt: 2 lbs Reload: Free Action

Heavy Crossbow -- Simple Weapon Range: 120ft Damage: 1d8 Crit: 19/x2 Wgt: 8 lbs Reload: Free Action
Long Bow --- Martial Weapon Range: 100 ft Damage: 1d8 Crit: 20/x3 Wgt: 3 lbs Reload: Free Action
Long Composite Bow -- Martial Weapon Range: 110ft Damage: 1d8 Crit: 20/x3 Wgt: 3 lbs Reload: Full Round Action

So the main benefit to a Bow over a Crossbow is that it is a Free Action to Reload versus a Move or Full-Round Action to Reload. Of course this benefit extends and covers the Sling as well. Basically Simple Ranged Weapons take longer to Reload than Martial Ranged Weapons which seems fair even though the Simple Crossbows shoot farther than their Martial counteraparts. Further some would say the Crit: 19/x2 is better than a Crit: 20/x3 since the prior is going to happen twice as often.

No of course I also disagree with some of the exotic weapons, why does it take an Extra Feat to be able to use a Repeating Crossbow when the basic mechanism of how it works is pretty much the same as a normal Crossbow. Okay yeah it might take a bit more training to know how to properly load one but that would just extend the Reload time not cause it harder to be used. -- This kind of extends to the Handcrossbow as it is just a slighlty smaller and equally simple weapon to use as is the Light Crossbow and it one has to have special training in how to use it. Why?

Still in the end what I learned was it really did not make that much difference and it was more difficult to teach a bunch of players a bunch of new guidelines so I just leave things as they are unless a player takes specific interest in something that is potentially broken.


Male Grippli

So, we are using house rules for projectiles?

Because as listed in PFSRD, light crossbow is 1d8 and heavy crossbow is 1d10.


No we are not using House Rules I was looking at the Small Damage Column rather than the Medium Damage Column my bad thanks for catching that. That just makes the Crossbows over Bows even better.


Male Human Psion 10/Atlanteologist 10
DunwichStoryteller wrote:
No we are not using House Rules I was looking at the Small Damage Column rather than the Medium Damage Column my bad thanks for catching that. That just makes the Crossbows over Bows even better.

But bows can be reloaded faster.


Yes Reloading the Martial Weapon Bow is a Free Action but all that I am saying is the Martial Weapon Bow mechanically is not that much better than the Simple Weapon Crossbow especially at the lower levels where the lack of getting extra attacks benefits the Crossbow.

Thus at levels 1st through 5th (assuming a Fighter) if one had Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot, one could easily support their fellows just as well using a Light Crossbow as they could with a Long Bow and if the group bought two Light Crossbows they could potentially be doing twice as much damage per round compared to a Long Bow for less cost.

This is mainly due to the fact that the cumbersomeness of a Simply Weapon Crossbow versus the Martial Weapon Bow is not addressed by the mechanics in anyway.

As such these are all just musing for the most part, as I am not planning on alterring those guidelines at this time since no one is focussed on exploiting the aspects of a Crossbow over a Bow.

As such I will simply go by the general understanding that Simple Weapons are easier to come by as they tend to be cheaper and easier to use and thus in higher demand by non-military organizations such as smaller town militia.


Have we been using the wrong damage die for my crossbow? lol. I dont often use/play with them


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Stone To Hit Goblin: 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (18) + 9 = 27
Stone Damage Goblin: 1d8 + 8 ⇒ (5) + 8 = 13
Who: 1d6 ⇒ 3
To Hit Grün: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (1) + 4 = 5
Bow Crit Fail: 1d6 ⇒ 4
To Hit Melee Grün: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (11) + 4 = 15


Male Grippli

Spank that Gobbo!


CG Human Female (she/her/hers) Brawler 3 | HP: 40/40 AC 19 T 13 FF 16 F +6 R +6 W +5 | Martial Flexibility 4/4

I've been busy with work, but Jazlyn is essentially ready.

I would like to make one more pitch for making slings have a range and damage more in line with what history indicates they are capable of. Your argument for a lower range and damage is based on the assumption that if players can get a weapon just as effective as a longbow for free, they'll get the sling to save money.

I've moderated quite a few Pathfinder and DnD games and I've always made a house rule that the sling does the same damage and has the same range as a longbow (except it does bludgeon damage rather than piercing). Yet I don't think there has ever been a player who has taken the sling as a ranged weapon. The cost difference only matters at character creation when gold may be severely limited. Once a PC has gained some gold, it is easy to purchase the preferred weapons. I think people prefer the bow to the sling because the bow has a more romantic image as a weapon of adventurers. Robin Hood and Legalas are prime examples of legendary fighters who used bows, not slings.

Jazlyn could afford a bow, but for aesthetic reasons, I'd like to equip her with a sling. I'm not sure why she should have to do half damage as a bow with a third less range, just because of the cost of the weapon.

If you want to adjust the damage, I'd suggest removing the strength bonus from the sling, since the way slings are usually used, it does not take much muscle to attain a high velocity. That would make the composite bow the better weapon for strong archers who want to do more damage.

As for the range, most ranged attacks occur at relatively close range, so I don't think that makes much difference.

Another option would be to give the sling the same range and damage as the bow provided the user has Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Sling expert), to represent the time it would take to become good enough to use the sling effectively.

Whatever you decide, I'll abide by your decision and not complain. Just wanted to make this appeal.


Male Human Psion 10/Atlanteologist 10

David used a sling to defeat Goliath. The sling stone is propelled at a speed that breaks the sound barrier. A sling would definitely have a range like that of a long bow. I second Jazlyn's appeal.


Sling Pitch:
Okay in all fairness I once more went out to dig up information on the internet to get a better feel for the Medieval Sling. I did this to refresh my mind as to why I felt it was okay having the sling be where it had been relegated. For I too like to apply real world dynamics to fantasy weapons and I have to say I was rather astounded the first time I did this to find that the Effective Range (not the Maximum Range) of a Bow was so short (even for modern day bows). Still we are not talking the modern day bow but the Medieval Sling and yes there are statements out there that the Sling's range was only bested by the Composite Bow I tried to also factor in the other things that are mentioned about the Sling for instance:

When looking at the evolution of ranged weapons, there is a trend towards increasingly simple operation. The sling requires enormous skill, one that can generally only be obtained with training from childhood (Hawkins, 1847; Korfmann, 1973; Wise, 1976; Ferrill, 1985). Without this mastery, a person armed with the weapon would be practically useless. The sling is exceptionally difficult to aim because it is being rotated when fired. It is common for people to fire projectiles backwards when they are first learning, meaning a high degree of proficiency is needed before they can be safely placed in a battlefield situation. On the other hand, the bow could be taught at any point in life, and be deadly with minimal experience. The bow does not suffer from the sling’s accuracy problems because of its ability to be drawn and then aimed. However, archers did have to be strong, which increased the required training time (Wise, 1976). The development of the crossbow with a mechanical device to cock the weapon enabled anyone to use it and have the ability to kill even an armored soldier at distance. The crossbow was the first true ‘point-and-shoot’ weapon, as it could be cocked and then easily aimed using the large stock. Although much slower to reload than bows, it was seen as an acceptable tradeoff for the ease-of-use gained. The shift to firearms was similar. They were even slower than the already sluggish crossbow, at least at first. However, the operation was simple and there was no physical strength needed to load the weapon. Also, its ‘point-and-shoot’ nature made someone with almost no experience immediately useful on the battlefield, and very deadly. This evolution occurred primarily because of changes in military and governmental organization. In feudal times, lords could recruit their serf population as soldiers (Wise, 1976). Many of these men were already proficient with the bow or sling, which were used for hunting game. However, by the High Middle Ages, nations and cities had developed large standing armies, which were recruited, sustained, and equipped by the government (Martin, 1968). An increasing number of these recruits were from urban populations which had far less exposure to ranged weapons. These units had to be trained from scratch and there was a high turnover. This led to the increased use of weapons that were deadlier with less training. The sling was perhaps the least effective choice of ranged weapon in this role.

Now as for the Damage of a Bullet an aspect what you do not address is the pentration factor, Sling Stones (or even Bullets) did not have as much pentration power as that of an Arrow or a Bolt (which were about 40x better) but DnD nor PF1e have a Penetration factor they simply wrap that into the weapon's damage. Which is why a Sling does 1d4, a Short Bow does 1d6, Long Bow does 1d8, Light Crossbow does 1d8, and a Heavy Crossbow does 1d10 as that is similar to the scale of the penetration power of each of these weapons. So damage is not just damage it is the effective penetration power along with the basic damage. Something I did not initially recall. Further technically an Arrow and a Bullet are much smaller in size than a Dagger but it does only 1d4 damage so why do they not do less damage than a Dagger?

So while DnD and PF1e have penetration to a degree, they wrongly equate the penetration bonus to a damage bonus. Still if the other players agree I can implement the pentration factor that gets associated with each projectile weapon (associated with its typical ammunition) but this equates to a bonus to hit but only if the target has armor that needs to be penetrated. This however does not change the base damage any, and does add a layer of complexity that one has to ask, is it really necessary.

Now the Damage an Arrow does is always just 1d6 or 1d8 damage unless you are using a Composite Bow or special Ammo but a Sling does 1d4 (+/-)Strength Modifier. Thus its max bonus to damage (by a normal humanoid) is +5 or a max damage of 6 to 9 which far out strips the Short Bow and is quite better than the Long Bow when it comes to potential damage. Sure that is an extreme but a mere Strength of 12 means a Slinger does 2 to 5 damage or an average of 3.5 which is the same as a Short Bow and with a 14 Strength it does 3 to 6 damage or an average of 4.6 which is slighlty better than a Long Bow. So the normal Bow is best used by a high Dex low Str character and the Sling excels in the hands of a high Str and high Dex character which is the same for a Composite Bow which seems fairly fitting mechanically while not being totally historically accurate.

That all being said there is always alternate Ammo. Standard Bullets weigh half as much as an Arrow or Bolt (which is fairly close to historical) but one can of course, carry heavier ammo (which is also historical). So I would be willing to allow the following for bullet damage:

Bullet (40) .. Wgt 1lb .. Rng: 50ft .. Dmg 1d4
Bullet (30) .. Wgt 1lb .. Rng: 40ft .. Dmg 1d4+1
Bullet (20) .. Wgt 1lb .. Rng: 30ft .. Dmg 1d4+2
Bullet (10) .. Wgt 1lb .. Rng: 20ft .. Dmg 1d4+3

Note there are different types of Arrows and Bolts as well, so this does not break any of the balance associated with the Bullets. Further this coincides with the Power Shot Feat where one can increase the damage without reducing the Range Increment (Rng) or increase the Range Increment which is simply a spin on Power Attack Feat.

So technically the Sling (per the guidelines a Simple Weapon) is actually more difficult to use than a Bow (which is a Martial Weapon) which is more difficult to use than a Crossbow (a Simple Weapon) which would imply that the use of a Sling should be an Exotic Weapon but its labeled as a Simple Weapon. Something you kind of pointed out but I cover in a slightly different way, by using Power Shot and Superior Arc Slinger to incorporate more than just one Feat to make greater range requiring greater skill.

Thus I am not changing the classification of the Sling from a Simple Weapon to an Exotic Weapon but instead felt perhaps that the enormous skill that is needed could best be reflected with adding a couple of Feats. So I dove into the Feats available to the Sling that effect range and found that they consist of Arc Slinger and Far Shot then by adding my two additional Feats Power Shot and Superior Arc Slinger I think I have covered the enormous skill and the extended range aspects for Slings. The damage issue is already covered under the fact that a Sling does 1d4 (+/-)Strength Modifier and regular Bows and Crossbows do not. Keep in mind the Composite Bow (especially the Short) was considered superior to the Sling which you can see below mechanically (with the 2 new Feats added) that it is only slighlty better in some areas. However, it is still better than the Sling if the same number of Feats are applied to both thus bringing back into the loop that the Sling requires more skill to maximize its potential.

Sling -- 50ft +0 / 100ft -2 ... 300ft -10

+Power Shot -- 60ft to 100ft +0 / 120ft to 200ft -2 ... 360ft to 600ft -10

+Arc Slinger -- 120 ft to 200ft +0 / 180ft to 300ft -2 ... 420ft to 700ft -10 (with Point Blank Range being 60ft to 100ft instead of 30ft)

+Superior Arc Slinger -- 180ft to 300ft +0 / 240ft to 400ft -2 ... 480ft to 800ft -10 (with Point Blank Range being 60ft to 100ft instead of 30ft)

+Far Shot -- 300ft to 500ft +0 / 360ft to 600ft -2 ... 900ft to 1,500ft -10)

The professional opinions on the ranges of Medieval Slings ranged from a mere 490ft out to about 1,600ft with a record range of about 2,300ft. Thus with the inclusion of Power Shot (which helps both the Sling and the Composite Bows which are said to be better than the Sling when it comes to range) and Superior Arc Slinger I think we more than compensate for the range issue while keeping to the aspect that the Sling is much harder to master than the Bow which is much harder to master than the Crossbow and yet we still allow the Sling to be a Simple Weapon.

Synopsis a very strong (Str 20) extremely proficient Slinger would have the following stats:

Sling
... Feats: Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Precise Shot, Arc Slinger, Superior Arc Slinger, Power Shot
... Type: Simple Weapon
... Cost: Neglible
... Wgt: Neglible (Ammo 1 lbs for 40)
... Damage: 1d4+5 (or 6 to 9)
... Crit: 20/x2
... PB Range: 100ft (Damage 1d4+6 or 7 to 10)
... Close Range: 500ft
... Longer Range: -1 per 100ft beyond 500ft (-10 at 1,500ft)
... Notes: Very easy to conceal, very easy to acquire slighlty inferior ammo (stones vs bullets) can use a Full-Attack Action like a Bow

....... Versus .......

Long Bow
... Feats: Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Precise Shot, Choose Three
... Type: Martial Weapon
... Cost: 75gp
... Wgt: 3 lbs (Ammo 1 lbs for 20)
... Damage: 1d8 (or 1 to 8)
... Crit: 20/x3
... PB Range: 30ft (Damage 1d8+1 or 2 to 9)
... Close Range: 100ft
... Longer Range: -1 per 100ft beyond 100ft (-10 at 1,100ft)
... Notes: Cannot be concealed, Ammo not always easy to acquire

....... Versus .......

Short Composite Bow
... Feats: Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Precise Shot, Power Shot, Choose Two
... Type: Martial Weapon
... Cost: 450gp (+5 Strength)
... Wgt: 3 lbs (Ammo 1 lbs for 20)
... Damage: 1d6+5 (or 6 to 11)
... Crit: 20/x3
... PB Range: 30ft (Damage 1d6+6 or 7 to 12)
... Close Range: 120ft
... Longer Range: -1 per 120ft beyond 120ft (-10 at 1,340ft)
... Notes: Hard to conceal, Ammo not always easy to acquire

It should be noted that just about every Feat usuable by a Bow (including Many Shot) can also be used by a Sling. Basically a Slinger can use all the other Feats utilized to make someone much more deadlier with a Bow, it just means that an expert Slinger just requires basically 2 or 3 more Feats (reflecting that enormous skill) to be better than an equivalent expert Bower.

Now I am still not saying no to making a Sling better per se and I throughly believe in doing things for aesthetics reasons but I do not want to completely unbalance a Sling which is being denoted as a Simple Weapon but historically required much more skill to use than a Bow which is actually why historically the bow replaced the sling which then eventually got replaced by the crossbow (a weapon inferior to the bow) and then eventually was replaced by a gun (a weapon basically inferior to the crossbow) as each was significantly easier with minimal training to equip someone with and make them fairly deadly on the battle field.

Now as for speeds the concensus is that a Sling Bullet traveled at about 100mph at most and Mach 1 at Sea Level is about 760mph. Thus no a Medieval Sling Bullet never even got close to breaking the sound barrier, they could still however literally take off the top of one's head. So I am not sure where you got that information about super-sonic sling bullets but I would double check that information. Heck I might be wrong but I do not think I am off by a factor of 7 times.

Final not if after reading everything above you still feel there is
a reason to increase the slings range and/or damage beyond what is already available for it, do please voice your opinion. As all I did was attempt to reflect where I am coming from on the subject which I will state upfront is but an opinion based on what I have denoted and it, as opinions can be, could be wrong.

Additional Feats:
Power Shot
... Prerequisite: Proficiency in a Ranged Weapon, Base Attack Bonus +1
... Gain a +10 feet to Range Increment per Strength Modifier or double the Strength Modifier damage by using heavier ammunition with no additional range penalty.

Superior Arc Slinger
Prerequisite: Sling Proficiency, Arc Slinger
... When using a sling or sling staff, reduce the penalty on Ranged Attack rolls due to range by by an additional 2. Further if one possesses Point-Blank Shot the damage bonus increases by an additional +1 as well.


-- Addendum with some adjustments please ignore previous --

Sling Pitch:
Okay in all fairness I once more went out to dig up information on the internet to get a better feel for the Medieval Sling. I did this to refresh my mind as to why I felt it was okay having the sling be where it had been relegated. For I too like to apply real world dynamics to fantasy weapons and I have to say I was rather astounded the first time I did this to find that the Effective Range (not the Maximum Range) of a Bow was so short (even for modern day bows). Still we are not talking the modern day bow but the Medieval Sling and yes there are statements out there that the Sling's range was only bested by the Composite Bow I tried to also factor in the other things that are mentioned about the Sling for instance:

When looking at the evolution of ranged weapons, there is a trend towards increasingly simple operation. The sling requires enormous skill, one that can generally only be obtained with training from childhood (Hawkins, 1847; Korfmann, 1973; Wise, 1976; Ferrill, 1985). Without this mastery, a person armed with the weapon would be practically useless. The sling is exceptionally difficult to aim because it is being rotated when fired. It is common for people to fire projectiles backwards when they are first learning, meaning a high degree of proficiency is needed before they can be safely placed in a battlefield situation. On the other hand, the bow could be taught at any point in life, and be deadly with minimal experience. The bow does not suffer from the sling’s accuracy problems because of its ability to be drawn and then aimed. However, archers did have to be strong, which increased the required training time (Wise, 1976). The development of the crossbow with a mechanical device to cock the weapon enabled anyone to use it and have the ability to kill even an armored soldier at distance. The crossbow was the first true ‘point-and-shoot’ weapon, as it could be cocked and then easily aimed using the large stock. Although much slower to reload than bows, it was seen as an acceptable tradeoff for the ease-of-use gained. The shift to firearms was similar. They were even slower than the already sluggish crossbow, at least at first. However, the operation was simple and there was no physical strength needed to load the weapon. Also, its ‘point-and-shoot’ nature made someone with almost no experience immediately useful on the battlefield, and very deadly. This evolution occurred primarily because of changes in military and governmental organization. In feudal times, lords could recruit their serf population as soldiers (Wise, 1976). Many of these men were already proficient with the bow or sling, which were used for hunting game. However, by the High Middle Ages, nations and cities had developed large standing armies, which were recruited, sustained, and equipped by the government (Martin, 1968). An increasing number of these recruits were from urban populations which had far less exposure to ranged weapons. These units had to be trained from scratch and there was a high turnover. This led to the increased use of weapons that were deadlier with less training. The sling was perhaps the least effective choice of ranged weapon in this role.

So technically the Sling (per the guidelines a Simple Weapon) is actually more difficult to use than a Bow (which is a Martial Weapon) which is more difficult to use than a Crossbow (a Simple Weapon) which would imply that the use of a Sling should be an Exotic Weapon but its labeled as a Simple Weapon. Something you kind of pointed out but I cover in a slightly different way, by using Power Shot and Superior Arc Slinger to incorporate more than just one Feat to make greater range requiring greater skill.

Now as for the Damage of a Bullet an aspect that you do not address is the pentration factor, Sling Stones (or even Bullets) did not have as much pentration power as that of an Arrow or a Bolt (which were about 40x better) but DnD nor PF1e have a Penetration factor they simply wrap that into the weapon's damage. Which is why a Sling does 1d4, a Short Bow does 1d6, Long Bow does 1d8, Light Crossbow does 1d8, and a Heavy Crossbow does 1d10 as that is similar to the scale of the penetration power of each of these weapons. So damage is not just damage it is the effective penetration power along with the basic damage. Something I did not initially recall. Further technically an Arrow and a Bullet are much smaller in size than a Dagger but the Dagger does only 1d4 damage so why do they not do as much or more damage than a Dagger? Basically IMO due to this concept of penetration.

So while DnD and PF1e have penetration to a degree, they wrongly equate the penetration bonus to a damage bonus. Still if the other players agree I can implement the pentration factor that gets associated with each projectile weapon (associated with its typical ammunition) but this equates to a bonus to hit but only if the target has armor that needs to be penetrated. This however does not change the base damage in a positive way, and does add a layer of complexity that one has to ask, is it really necessary.

Now the Damage an Arrow does is always just 1d6 or 1d8 damage unless you are using a Composite Bow or special Ammo but a Sling does 1d4 (+/-)Strength Modifier. Thus its max bonus to damage (by a normal humanoid) is +5 or a max damage of 6 to 9 which far out strips the Short Bow and is quite better than the Long Bow when it comes to potential damage. Sure that is an extreme but a mere Strength of 12 means a Slinger does 2 to 5 damage or an average of 3.5 which is the same as a Short Bow and with a 14 Strength it does 3 to 6 damage or an average of 4.6 which is slighlty better than a Long Bow. So the normal Bow is best used by a high Dex low Str character and the Sling excels in the hands of a high Str and high Dex character which is the same for a Composite Bow which seems fairly fitting mechanically while not being totally historically accurate.

That all being said there is always alternate Ammo. Standard Bullets weigh half as much as an Arrow or Bolt (which is fairly close to historical) but one can of course, carry heavier ammo (which is also historical). So I would be willing to allow the following for bullet damage:

Bullet (40) .. Wgt 1lb .. Cost: 4gp .. Rng: 50ft .. Dmg 1d4
Bullet (30) .. Wgt 1lb .. Cost: 6gp .. Rng: 45ft .. Dmg 1d4+1
Bullet (20) .. Wgt 1lb .. Cost: 8gp .. Rng: 40ft .. Dmg 1d4+2
Bullet (10) .. Wgt 1lb .. Cost: 8gp .. Rng: 35ft .. Dmg 1d4+3

Stones (40) .. Wgt 1lb .. Cost: 4sp .. Rng: 60ft .. Dmg 1d2
Stones (30) .. Wgt 1lb .. Cost: 6sp .. Rng: 55ft .. Dmg 1d3
Stones (20) .. Wgt 1lb .. Cost: 8sp .. Rng: 50ft .. Dmg 1d3+1
Stones (10) .. Wgt 1lb .. Cost: 8sp .. Rng: 45ft .. Dmg 1d3+2

Note there are different types of Arrows and Bolts as well, so this does not break any of the balance associated with the Ammo. Further this coincides with the Power Shot Feat where one can increase the damage without reducing the Range Increment (Rng) or increase the Range Increment which is simply a sort of spin on Power Attack Feat.

Thus I am not changing the classification of the Sling from a Simple Weapon to an Exotic Weapon but instead felt perhaps that the enormous skill that is needed could best be reflected with adding a couple of Feats. So I dove into the Feats available to the Sling that effect range and found that they consist of Arc Slinger and Far Shot then by adding my two additional Feats Power Shot and Superior Arc Slinger I think I have covered the enormous skill and the extended range aspects for Slings. The damage issue is already covered under the fact that a Sling does 1d4 (+/-)Strength Modifier and regular Bows and Crossbows do not. Keep in mind the Composite Bow (especially the Short) was considered superior to the Sling which you can see below mechanically (with the 2 new Feats added) that it is only slighlty better in some areas. However, it is still better than the Sling if the same number of Feats are applied to both thus bringing back into the loop that the Sling requires more skill to maximize its potential.

Sling -- 50ft +0 / 100ft -2 ... 300ft -10

+Power Shot -- 55ft to 75ft +0 / 120ft to 200ft -2 ... 360ft to 600ft -10

+Arc Slinger -- 110 ft to 125ft +0 / 165ft to 200ft -2 ... 385ft to 500ft -10 (with Point Blank Range being 55ft to 75ft instead of 30ft)

+Superior Arc Slinger -- 165ft to 250ft +0 / 220ft to 325ft -2 ... 430ft to 625ft -10 (with Point Blank Range being 55ft to 75ft instead of 30ft)

+Far Shot -- 275ft to 350ft +0 / 330ft to 425ft -1 ... 825ft to 1,025ft -10)

The professional opinions on the ranges of Medieval Slings ranged from a mere 490ft out to about 1,600ft with a record range of about 2,300ft. Thus with the inclusion of Power Shot (which helps both the Sling and the Composite Bows which are said to be better than the Sling when it comes to range) and Superior Arc Slinger I think we more than compensate for the range issue while keeping to the aspect that the Sling is much harder to master than the Bow which is much harder to master than the Crossbow and yet we still allow the Sling to be a Simple Weapon.

Synopsis a very strong (Str 20) extremely proficient Slinger would have the following stats:

Sling
... Feats: Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Precise Shot, Power Shot, Arc Slinger, Superior Arc Slinger
... Type: Simple Weapon
... Cost: Neglible
... Wgt: Neglible (Ammo 1 lbs for 40)
... Damage: 1d4+5 (or 6 to 9)
... Crit: 20/x2
... PB Range: 75ft (Damage 1d4+6 or 7 to 10)
... Close Range: 350ft
... Longer Range: -1 per 75ft beyond 350ft (-10 at 1,025ft)
... Notes: Very easy to conceal, very easy to acquire slighlty inferior ammo (stones vs bullets) can use a Full-Attack Action like a Bow

....... Versus .......

Long Bow
... Feats: Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Precise Shot, Choose Three
... Type: Martial Weapon
... Cost: 75gp
... Wgt: 3 lbs (Ammo 1 lbs for 20)
... Damage: 1d8 (or 1 to 8)
... Crit: 20/x3
... PB Range: 30ft (Damage 1d8+1 or 2 to 9)
... Close Range: 100ft
... Longer Range: -1 per 100ft beyond 100ft (-10 at 1,100ft)
... Notes: Cannot be concealed, Ammo not always easy to acquire

....... Versus .......

Short Composite Bow
... Feats: Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Precise Shot, Power Shot, Choose Two
... Type: Martial Weapon
... Cost: 450gp (+5 Strength)
... Wgt: 3 lbs (Ammo 1 lbs for 20)
... Damage: 1d6+5 (or 6 to 11)
... Crit: 20/x3
... PB Range: 55ft (Damage 1d6+6 or 7 to 12)
... Close Range: 95ft
... Longer Range: -1 per 95ft beyond 95ft (-10 at 950ft)
... Notes: Hard to conceal, Ammo not always easy to acquire

It should be noted that just about every Feat usuable by a Bow (including Many Shot) can also be used by a Sling. Basically a Slinger can use all the other Feats utilized to make someone much more deadlier with a Bow, it just means that an expert Slinger just requires basically 2 or 3 more Feats (reflecting that enormous skill) to be better than an equivalent expert Bower.

Now I am still not saying no to making a Sling better per se and I throughly believe in doing things for aesthetics reasons but I do not want to completely unbalance a Sling which is being denoted as a Simple Weapon but historically required much more skill to use than a Bow which is actually why historically the bow replaced the sling which then eventually got replaced by the crossbow (a weapon inferior to the bow) and then eventually was replaced by a gun (a weapon basically inferior to the crossbow) as each was significantly easier with minimal training to equip someone with and make them fairly deadly on the battle field. Still I do not think with the two new Feats that the Sling is at all an inferior weapon and can be, if one is dedicated to it, much better than most other ranged weapons.

Now as for speeds the concensus is that a Sling Bullet traveled at about 100mph at most and Mach 1 at Sea Level is about 760mph. Thus no a Medieval Sling Bullet never even got close to breaking the sound barrier, they could still however literally take off the top of one's head. So I am not sure where you got that information about super-sonic sling bullets but I would double check that information. Heck I might be wrong but I do not think I am off by a factor of 7 times.

Final Note: If after reading everything above you still feel there is a reason to increase the slings range and/or damage beyond what is already available for it, do please voice your opinion. As all I did was attempt to reflect where I am coming from on the subject which I will state upfront is but an opinion based on what I have denoted and it, as opinions can be, could be wrong.

Additional Feats:
Power Shot
... Prerequisite: Proficiency in a Ranged Weapon, Base Attack Bonus +1
... Gain a +5 feet to Range Increment per Strength Modifier or increase the Strength Modifier damage by using heavier ammunition with no additional range penalty. Regardless Point Blank range is increased by +5 feet per Strength Modifier.
.
Superior Arc Slinger
... Prerequisite: Sling Proficiency, Arc Slinger
... When using a sling or sling staff, reduce the penalty on Ranged Attack rolls due to range by by an additional 2. Further if one possesses Point-Blank Shot the damage bonus increases by an additional +1 as well.


Sling Pitch Extra:
Here is what the Sling would look like if you drop those two extra Sling specific Feats Arc Slinger and Superior Arc Slinger. Doing this for easier comparison versus the Long Bow and more specifically the Short Composite Bow.
.
.
Sling
... Feats: Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Precise Shot, Power Shot
... Type: Simple Weapon
... Cost: Neglible
... Wgt: Neglible (Ammo 1 lbs for 40)
... Damage: 1d4+5 (or 6 to 9)
... Crit: 20/x2
... PB Range: 55ft (Damage 1d4+6 or 7 to 10)
... Close Range: 75ft
... Longer Range: -1 per 75ft beyond 75ft (-10 at 825ft)
... Notes: Very easy to conceal, very easy to acquire slighlty inferior ammo (stones vs bullets)

And forgot this part in previous post

Also can use a Full-Attack Action ability like a Bow if the Juggle Load Feat is acquired which either requires the Ammo Drop Feat or the Hin Racial Trait Warslinger.


Male Grippli

@William

Magic Weapon is range "touch" and he's down in the pit climbing up the other side.


Male Human Evoker 3
Sun-Dapple Grün wrote:

@William

Magic Weapon is range "touch" and he's down in the pit climbing up the other side.

Let me check if I have a crossbow.


Male Grippli

Bump... let's go party people.


It is the holiday extended weekend -- many folks will have Thursday through Sunday for Thanksgiving to spend with family -- they might even have taken Friday (Black as it is) off if they do not already get it off.

Granted that does not usually apply to the sales or service industries as they usually have someone working 24/7/365 just in case or in the case of Black Friday mandatory.


CG Human Female (she/her/hers) Brawler 3 | HP: 40/40 AC 19 T 13 FF 16 F +6 R +6 W +5 | Martial Flexibility 4/4

I've been working on other things while waiting for the gameplay to reach the point where my character can join. I'm fine with the sling rules presented. My only remaining question is whether or not sling stones can use the Masterwork house rules to improve accuracy or damage.

Once I have that, I'll finalize my character sheet/profile and will be ready to go.


Okay I updated the guidelines for Projectile Weapons and Ammunition under the Campaign tab under Masterwork. However here is what I wrote:

Projectile weapons can only gain Masterwork Bonuses To Hit.

Ammunition can gain both To Hit and Damage bonuses but like all types of like bonuses, a Masterwork Bonus To Hit with a Projectile does not stack with a Masterwork Bonus To Hit with Ammunition. Further, due to its simplistic nature, Ammunition can only have one type of Masterwork and only ever obtain 3 Tiers of that one kind of Masterwork.

The normal starting maximums still apply.

I also added Masterwork Ammunition which I plan to expand later on as I either get time or players show an interest in obtaining.

Keep in mind everyone that special ammo, as far as I am concerned, is masterwork ammo as they each apply something to standard ammo that standard ammo does not possess. If anyone is interested in me expanding the ammo list for any of the various ammos please let me know and I can do that to give you an easy price/availability listing

Next like magic projectiles, masterwork projectiles have to be tracked and they are expended once used. Now while we are using the simplified ammo guidelines this only applies to normal ammo and not to magical nor special ammo due to their rarity.

If someone gets to the point where any type of special ammo becomes so common place for them that it is like having normal ammo, I would consider allowing that special ammo to use the simplified ammo guidelines.


Female Aquatic Elf Druid 3

I took it the gobbos were still hit able, if not true I'd move to hel with the ladder and stuff


Check: 1d20 ⇒ 1


Male Grippli

Are we RPing approaching Salaha? The crocodile is a party member and should be considered friendly.


M Dwarf Inquisitor(Living Grimoire) 3HP28/37,Init5,F7R2W6,AC18T13FF16

I think it tolerates us due to Salaha


Just a heads up -- I am still alive but have been having a rather hectic set of days, I have started the post 3 times already but fell asleep mid post. Hopefully I can get something up here today or this weekend. My apologies for the delay.

If you all want to do something for me -- either let me know if you want to use Passive Perception (aka Take-10) or if you want to make an Active Perception roll by making said roll. Thanks for your patience.


Male Grippli

I don't mind Taking 10, that Perception 20 for Grun, 21 for traps. Waiting on folks to roll perception can take a while.

Now, if the DC is always 22, then... dunno.

I know we live and die by the dice, but feel free to embellish (up or down) as needed to move us along.


CG Human Female (she/her/hers) Brawler 3 | HP: 40/40 AC 19 T 13 FF 16 F +6 R +6 W +5 | Martial Flexibility 4/4

Take your time. Holiday season is always subject to RL limitations and posting if often interrupted. Happy holidays.


I have already posted, waiting on PCs now.


Female Aquatic Elf Druid 3

i have 6 hp for some reason on my sheet, but you have it as 22? I feel the 22 is right, but how did i end up with 6?


I am not sure -- however you being 3rd level with max hit points at 1st level and at least half if not better hit points at 2nd and 3rd -- I think the 22 is probably accurate.


Male Grippli

I appreciate the advocacy but... one does.

It's just that typically, no one would be stupid enough to use a bow with a negative strength modifier.

Under Strength:

...A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies to attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow.

Also...

Under Weapons:

"Projectile Weapons: Most projectile weapons require two hands to use (see specific weapon descriptions). A character gets no Strength bonus on damage rolls with a projectile weapon unless it’s a specially built composite shortbow or longbow, or a sling. If the character has a penalty for low Strength, apply it to damage rolls when he uses a bow or a sling.

You do remind me however that I purchased +0/+2 arrows, so damage should be 1d4 (2)-1+2 or 3 total.

Thank you!

ps: knew I wasn't that stupid.


Oh well thanks Grün -- did not realize they had changed that in 5e I was aware it applied to Slings which is a Thrown Weapon and it applies to Thrown Weapons but then positive Strength applies to Thrown Weapons as well but does not apply to Bows unless you shell out some coin for a Strength enhanced Composite Bow

Also I never said you were stupid nor even implied it. For as you pointed out there was an aspect to the current guidelines that I was not aware of in this case. I would be thoroughly amazed if there is anyone that could remember all the guidelines in all the books currently associated with DnD 5e --- I mean I know there are those with superior memory abilities but they tend to be rather rare individuals.

Oh and I will adjust that damage up by 1 ;-)

Hey Jazlyn of Clan Ocēlōme are you still with us?


Male Grippli
DunwichStoryteller wrote:
Also I never said you were stupid nor even implied it.

I didn't take it as such, I was calling myself stupid (unorthodox, really). It's a niche build and definitely not an archer build.

Although, I did it because 1d4 = 2-3 mostly and with your mwk rules, arrows can be +2 damage. So that nets 4-5 damage. Medium bow/arrow without the mwk adjustment1d6 = 3-4 damage.

The above is also what I mean by niche. I mean we created the class together, but with the campaign's homebrew mwk rules, the build ( using a bow and arrow) is more viable. As he eventually will be mounted and climbs a lot, figured no longbow.

4th level with Scout's Charge doesn't fix everything, but it makes the build a whole lot more independent... right now, I can't justify charging unless I've got a flanking buddy.

In all honesty, I was of a like mind as you with the Strength penalty to bow... But, I use HeroLab and it adds/subtracts it.


CG Human Female (she/her/hers) Brawler 3 | HP: 40/40 AC 19 T 13 FF 16 F +6 R +6 W +5 | Martial Flexibility 4/4
DunwichStoryteller wrote:

Oh well thanks Grün -- did not realize they had changed that in 5e I was aware it applied to Slings which is a Thrown Weapon and it applies to Thrown Weapons but then positive Strength applies to Thrown Weapons as well but does not apply to Bows unless you shell out some coin for a Strength enhanced Composite Bow

Also I never said you were stupid nor even implied it. For as you pointed out there was an aspect to the current guidelines that I was not aware of in this case. I would be thoroughly amazed if there is anyone that could remember all the guidelines in all the books currently associated with DnD 5e --- I mean I know there are those with superior memory abilities but they tend to be rather rare individuals.

Oh and I will adjust that damage up by 1 ;-)

Hey Jazlyn of Clan Ocēlōme are you still with us?

Still here.


Okay well then two questions for you Jazlyn of Clan Ocēlōme would you either:

A) Care to take over Stone for now until we can fade him from the picture and bring your character in.

B) Swap out Stone for your character and let you be there as if you had been Stone all along.

The choice is yours -- or you can propose an option C if you like.


CG Human Female (she/her/hers) Brawler 3 | HP: 40/40 AC 19 T 13 FF 16 F +6 R +6 W +5 | Martial Flexibility 4/4

Would it be possible to come up with a storyline that puts Jazlyn in the vicinity, teamed up with a few other adventurers, on a hunting trip in the swamp? Perhaps her comrades were killed and she was captured by the goblins and can be rescued by the party?

Or maybe she was with another party that Eritha sent out on the same mission earlier. With no word from that first group, Eritha gathered the current group to try their luck. Jazlyn could have been in that earlier group and is all that is left of it, having been attacked by some swamp denizen or another. Or this second group left a few days later but met some tragic fate, with Jazlyn making it to the current location.

If that can be arranged, then perhaps Stone can recede, perhaps taking a mortal wound or abandoning the effort. This option seems more organic and does not require rewriting the previous events. I'd rather not RP another character.

If that is too much trouble, my second choice would be plan B.


Yeah I can have you having been a captured group of exploring adventurers and currently be the sole survivor having watched the Goblins literally eat all your other comrades, one by one.

I will give you a bit of information to outline your current situation, giving you a bit more to go on once you are rescued.


CG Human Female (she/her/hers) Brawler 3 | HP: 40/40 AC 19 T 13 FF 16 F +6 R +6 W +5 | Martial Flexibility 4/4

Looking forward to it.


Male Grippli

Merry Christmas and Season's Greetings to All!


Male Human Psion 10/Atlanteologist 10
Sun-Dapple Grün wrote:
Merry Christmas and Season's Greetings to All!

Same to you!


Dáin 2nd Save DC 17: 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (5) + 9 = 14
Grun Attacks Who: 1d3 ⇒ 1
Dáin Attacks Who: 1d2 ⇒ 2


In case folks have missed this under Combat Notes under the Campaign Info tab the following information has been detailed.

Flanking: To make this easy I do away with the standard Flanking guidelines in favor of something that better reflects the chaos of battle and that is as follows: One is considered flanking when there are more than one attacker attacking them. Further for each additional attacker beyond 1, all the attackers gain a +1 Circumstance Bonus per attacker on their attacks up to a maximum of a +4 To Hit, as they are considered to be constantly trying to out maneuver their target and this reflects that advantage.

Multiple Attackers: Besides being Flanked a creature with multiple attackers must make a random roll using a die equal to the number of attackers for each attack they make to see which opponent presented the best target for that attack. However, one can also choose to focus on I single target forgoing all others but all the ignored attackers would gain a +4 Circumstance Bonus to hit with their next attack(s) until the beginning of that character's next turn. However, they lose their Flanking Bonus since it no longer applies. Note: This can be combined with Fighting Defensively if one chooses.

Fighting Defensively: Per normal Guidelines one can choose to fight defensively. However to bring this in line with the Combat Expertise Feat, the following change is made. The Attack penalty and AC Bonus is based on the Attacker Base Attack Bonus (not the total) as follows:
... BAB: 3 or less ... -2 Atk .. +1 AC
... BAB: ..4 to 7 ...... -4 Atk .. +2 AC
... BAB: ..8 to 7 ...... -6 Atk .. +3 AC
... BAB: 12 to 15 .... -7 Atk .. +4 AC
... BAB: 16 to 19 .... -9 Atk .. +5 AC
... BAB: .... 20 ....... -11 Atk .. +6 AC

Note as you can see this makes the Combat Expertise (-1/+1 per +4 BAB) better at higher levels than at lower levels which kind of reflects its concept in that a higher level character is more apt to be a combat expert.

*************************************************

Now Grün I know I opened this can of worms by mistake having forgotten my own guidelines that I posted but as soon as I sat down to figure out this round I saw my error. So that is my fault and I apologise for any confusion. As such unless you say otherwise I will leave Grün attacking the Goblin they are currently engaged with.

However if Grün does step away from his opponent giving that opponent an AoO when doing so, it will then it simply follow Grün to engage Grün and Dáin in the next round. So that is up to you but all things considered I am going to guess Grün does not do this.

Still it would give Grün and Dáin a +1 Attack Bonus (not a +2) for this round which gets negated next round when the Goblin re-engages with you two. Then we have random rolls by both sides to see who they end up swinging at each round.

Again my apologies on that foo bar


Male Grippli

I need the flank for Precision Damage eligibility, more than anything else.


Well since you did not hit last round that made no difference. However you are only going to get a Flank bonus for at most 1 round unless one of the Goblins goes down. As a 2 vs 2 does not provide a Flanking opportunity.

So if you want to ignore your current opponent and move to attack another opponent to get your Flank bonus for 1 round that is fine but your current opponent gets an AoO as you depart.


Male Grippli

Sure, why not?


Stone Attack: 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (2) + 9 = 11
Morale check: 1d20 ⇒ 16

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