Golaripalooza [1e, Rotating GMs]

Game Master dien

TBH, I've never actually looked at the Eldritch Archer before, and just thought the idea of the Arcane Archer was fun. But since you brought it up, I'll check it out. Thanks!

EDIT: Ok, having looked, I'm gonna pass. The character concept is that Talon's an Archer Ranger who through his elven ancestry will have the innate ability to use magic which he will eventually learn to focus through his bow. A Magus can be a damage-dealing beast, but loses the Ranger flavor I'm aiming for. The thought is still appreciated, but not this time.

Arcane Archer is a class that has a fun concept and ... vaguely terrible actual mechanics, LOL. I'd definitely look at Eldritch Archer as an alternative, but, as always, play what you want :D

(Simultaneous posting FTW)

I don't think Arcane Archer's that bad. When you view it as a caster, sure, it's awful.

But when you view it as Bow Twangy-McShootman, who gives up 1 BaB for some spell utility, it's not that bad.

As long as your first six levels get you the necessary shooting feats, you're barely losing that much arrow DPR unless you're comparing it to Paladin Smite/Luring Cavalier Challenge.

I'd say the only reason say, staying pure Ranger would be better would be due to Instant Enemy being a startlingly powerful spell. You basically get the same amount of casting and raw damage either way, just the ranger spell list has one bonkers entry on it.

Hmmm. Ok. Now I'm intrigued.
I'm going to have investigate the eldritch archer a bit more...
LOL

As far as Eldritch Archer goes, it's significantly better as a casting chassis out the door, and remains better at high level thanks to Recall even once they have similar max spell level.

The only thing to remember is that Ranged Spell Combat is your only class feature from Eldritch Archer that is good. Ranged Spellstrike is just "I want to miss with spells a lot because Touch AC is 10 bazillion lower than normal AC on 90% of the bestiary". That said, Ranged Spell Combat is a very good class feature. More action economy is always something to look out for.

--

That said, there's a surprising third option.

Eldritch Knight. There's nothing in any of its class features that requires melee. Spell Critical works just fine on bows and it even hands out some bonus feats to help you get what you need. It gets full BaB, so even with the starting 5 levels of Wizard, you don't end up behind an Eldritch Archer in BaB.

If you want to be a Spellcaster first then archer, then Eldritch Knight can get you all the way to 9th level spells, unlike Arcane Archer or Eldritch Archer.

Thanks for potentially adding to my indecision.
:)

That said I've decided that I'm either going to go with Talon as a Ranger progressing into an Arcane Archer OR since I've been looking through all these arcane spell lists, playing as a different character, a Human arcane caster type.

Final call: Ranger.
Will worry about the rest later. LOL

The analysis paralysis is real!

There are so many mechanically optimal or better choices to make in this system. I am keen to balance what I think will be effective with something that makes sense for the character as I have conceived of them. I have definitely put together spreadsheets listing out multiple possible options, ranking them according to my preferences (and sometimes what other people have written about how a particular features actually plays). It's so easy to get bogged own in the nearly endless sea of possibilities! But as long as you're having fun, and the other people at the table are also having fun, then I'd say that's successful!

Yeah, I'm sorry I caused you to get mired in this. I was just concerned because Arcane Archer seems like it doesn't actually live up to the fantasy it advertises. But as long as we're having fun, it should be fine. And as Illia/Roger put it, it's probably not actually as bad as I think it is. You still get full bab essentially, and a couple of nifty tricks in arcane spellcasting over ranger spell casting/feats.

* grin * No worries. It's an easy rabbit-hole to fall into. Obviously.

Sometimes when it's first level and nothing is set in stone in your mind, it's about trying a class or a build, but this time it's about the feel and personality of the character. And so that's why I'm going this way. I'm positive he'll be both useful and fun to play.

;)

And with so many options it’s genuinely useful to have input and advice - certainly I welcome it.

@Slowdrifter: I forgot to say, Venator is the most Chelaxian name ever, I love it. At the top of your stat block, there's a stat line that says AC 17 which is probably a holdover from a different draft of the character.

Looking forward to the backstory as well. Glad you were able to grab the Disabled Device skill.

By my count you have 60.5 lbs worth of gear and 33 lbs. light load capacity.

Your combat gear is 22 lbs not counting the explorer's outfit. With the Explorer's outfit, you've got 30 lbs on you without anything else (Why is it 8 pounds?!). The Backpack brings you up to 32. So I guess you're dropping the backpack before every combat.

I've always wished to see the Archaeologist in action, so I'm glad to see you running one.

Didn't count your gold expenditure, but you might have more than you thought because I spotted some redundancies. You have "earplugs" listed twice, and "mirror" comes in as part of the Grooming Kit. A semi redundancy is that the Gear Maintenance kit has a sewing needle, but you've got 5 for reasons, so that seems like it was on purpose. Lots of nifty little pieces of gear.

I've spent the cash for the mule though, so you can set some things down on the mule. I guess it probably won't make a difference since you have lots of little things to take down in dungeons and other encounters. Maybe Roger and Constantine can share the load? We'll see how it plays out anyway.

Thanks @Kubular! AC definitely a mistake, will correct. Yeah, will be dropping the backpack for combat and traps. The sooner I can get hold of a mithral chain shirt and a haversack the better. Explorer’s outfit is heavy but I’ve always assumed it’s because it comes with everything - gloves, hat and so on. I always house ruled if you’re that well equipped from the start with your outfityou don’t gain any additional weight for magic items, e.g. you’re swapping out your regular hat, vest, cloak for a better one.

Glad to be of service. I really like the concept, it fits the rogue niche I want to play (more of a rogue with spells than a bard without music).

Thanks for the heads up on the mirror. Sewing needle is deliberate - can be used for winding twine, tiny markers etc. She’s very much a planner so wants to be prepared for as many eventualities as possible. This is the context for Meticulous as a drawback.

Tweaks to sheet made. I've decided to keep the mirror as it's bigger (the grooming kit one is miniature). I've also changed my second language to gnome as that makes more sense.

Backstory has (finally) been added and ready to roll. Hopefully it all makes sense and the story and stat block align.

Very much looking forward to getting going!

We are live! Gameplay is up. I'll double-check sheets at some point tonight, but feel free to throw in to roleplay.

I've also posted a town map in the Discord-- if your character is one of those who are local to Saringallow, feel free to assume IC knowledge of all the places listed.

Knowledge (local) ftw!

So now we’ve seen everyone’s characters (some really cool ideas, genuinely always love to see who everyone else is), how’re we shaping up as a party? What are we all bringing to the table and what strengths and weaknesses have we got as a collective?

I put together a spreadsheet last week. I'll load it up, update it, and give a summary later this evening.

I like imagining that Roger's just worried about how he's going to get his booze without the tavern boy to bring it to him.

I don't have a big spreadsheet but off the dome:

Constantine: highest Knowledge skills, tied for highest diplomacy check, minor spellcasting, strength melee combatant, highest AC

Roger: Stealth/climb/swim strongest skills, two-handed fighty boi w/ highest weapon damage on team, (Weapon focus or power attack seem like good choices for your second feat), high initiative and a neat team combat buff

Talon: Biggest perception bonus w/Sirio, stealth, maybe the highest survival check in the party right now, Ranged combatant

Emma: Intimidate/handle animal bonuses might be the highest in the party, Diplomacy is tied for highest. Strength melee combatant, high AC. Smite is gonna let her nova one encounter per day.

Hannelia: Decent knowledge/social skills, highest UMD, bard spellcasting, competitive ranged damage, most vulnerable at AC 15

Sirio: I have exactly 1 skill point before background skills, but it's given me a tie with Talon's perception bonus. high diplomacy/bluff from Prof (barrister). Full divine casting, high-ish ac melee combatant, not a lot of healing but I'll be casting buffs.

By my count we have 3 +8 diplomacy checks (Emma, Constantine, Sirio), 2 ranged combatants, everyone between 10-12 hp, all AC is between 15-18. Good damage on our team, I think we might be missing acrobatics as a skill between the six of us. There are definitely gaps I'm missing though, so a big spreadsheet would be really cool. Sense motive bonuses might be a gap too, as they are also fairly low at the +4/5 area. The lack of AoE and arcane casting in the party could be an issue, but one we could work around by being smart with terrain/tactics.

I think I'll grab improved initiative as soon as I can to help support the party better. Not having haste available later might feel bad though, *sad trombone noises*.

Strengths: Lots of decent frontline and damage, no super vulnerable members, lots of skill coverage, especially knowledge/social redundancies.

Weaknesses: Not a lot of casting, no wizard/sorcerer means lack of big AoE. Healing might also get spread pretty thin without positive energy channel. (Infernal healing is very good, but I'm pretty sure paladins can't receive healing from it)

I have forgotten to add a feat! I will add it ASAP.

Ok. Reading Sirio's comments got me thinking.

If it's better for the group, RIGHT now, before we move on and I have to change something major we've written, I can make Talon a full-on spell caster instead of ranger. No harm, no foul, and it's something I wouldn't mind playing since I have an idea already that I could modify for Talon... But I need a show of hands! Speak up. Would an Arcanist be more helpful to the group?

And so long as Dien is ok with it...

Ok. Reading Sirio's comments got me thinking.

If it's better for the group, RIGHT now, before we move on and I have to change something major we've written, I can make Talon a full-on spell caster instead of ranger. No harm, no foul, and it's something I wouldn't mind playing since I have an idea already that I could modify for Talon... But I need a show of hands! Speak up. Would an Arcanist be more helpful to the group?

And so long as Dien is ok with it...

I would say I don't think its too bad, I was just critically analyzing our party for weaknesses, and while that seems like the most obvious one, it's not insurmountable. The lack of big arcane spells is a gap, but having a minimum 15 AC and 10 HP are pretty nice strengths for the party to have. If you switch over to an arcane caster, you'll be able to perform battlefield control, but you'll absolutely be the most squishy member of the team.

I guess it wouldn't be too much of a retcon since we've only barely started, but we have already introduced characters, so it feels a little funny. And between Hannelia and Constantine we'll have at least the necessities of arcane casting.

Play what you waaaaaaaaaaaaant. You want to play Talon, play him. Don't worry about party composition.

I second what dien is saying: play the character you want.

Every party is going to have strengths and weaknesses and not all bases will be covered perfectly. We can look at picking up wands and scrolls to boost healing/circumstantial spells - between me and Constantine we ought to be alright for UMD. Human favoured class bonus lets me add additional spells to my list so I can expand my options there.

And thanks for the analysis, Sirio; looking forward to seeing the spreadsheet, Constantine.

Play what you waaaaaaaaaaaaant. You want to play Talon, play him. Don't worry about party composition.

* pantomimes zipping his lip shut *

Playing a party with gaps can be quite fun. Playing a party with no casters, or with only casters, can be a surprising change of pace. Not having a wizard won't make or break anything. Clerics get a haste equivalent at level 7, if we're truly worried about getting beaten by encounters.

Playing a party with gaps can be quite fun. Playing a party with no casters, or with only casters, can be a surprising change of pace. Not having a wizard won't make or break anything. Clerics get a haste equivalent at level 7, if we're truly worried about getting beaten by encounters.

I totally forgot about Blessing of Fervor. Really good force multiplication in a party like this one.

I can get actual haste but also not till 7th.

Yeah, don't forget about bards :D

But yes, Pathfinder can be just as fun-- sometimes more so-- with some so-called "party gaps" as it can with a textbook balanced party.

I played Tomb of the Iron Medusa with a party of four-- my maneuvers-based fighter, a monk, a rogue, and a bard. That was a ride. Our poor bard burned through like 15K in scrolls.......... but we lived!

Oh, we're much more okay in terms of casting than I first thought.

Still not a lot of fireballing but with all six of us capable of dealing at least decent weapon damage, tactics and focus fire will probably make up for that. A scroll of gust of wind might be helpful for swarms. I almost almost went Fire domain instead of my archetype (Asmodean Advocate eats my second domain for the familiar and Devil in the Details). But I'm still powerful without it, and it gives me more relevance outside of combat.

Occultists also get Haste, and Fireball (if I take those spells). Part of the fun of this class is the adaptability.

I'm sure we'll manage.

Yeah definitely. Nothing to worry about at all.

There's talk of splitting into pairs in the discord. Just thought I'd put it here for posterity.

As it works out there are three characters with high diplomacy checks (+8 on Sirio, Constantine, and Emma) and the other three characters are residents of Saringallow (Roger, Hannelia, and Talon). Seems like a perfect opportunity for the characters to have one-to-one interactions.

Hallowsinder already announced Roger would probably run to check in on Witch's End.

Any preferences on pairings? I'm kind of open to anything at the moment. Sirio obviously doesn't tolerate Roger's drinking, but other than that I don't think I've got a preference. I think it would be funny if they were forced to be paired together, but I also like the idea of this playing out in character.

*sits back and popcorns*

Will try to post this evening. Issues with a broken water main at work resulted in mandatory, unplanned overtime. Apologies. Move ahead as needed.

Oh nooooo that sounds very un-fun.

Working OT? No. Not fun.
Watching the water shoot out of the pipe about 18' into the air, nonstop for about 15 min when they finally figured out how to shut it off? And then watching the hilo driver who hit it try to explain how it wasn't his fault...Rather amusing...

Just to recap the splitting-up so far, assuming you each take two locations as well:

Constantine and Roger - Witch's End, ?
Sirio and Hannelia - Petrellano Pindlion (haberdasher) & The Temple of Erastil
Emma and Talon - ? and ?

(Remaining locations- the apothecary, the cobblers, and the baker's)

Just as a note, Hannelia-- you actually don't know Petrellano too well, that location was specifically left off the locals map. ;) But given your knowledge local +6 I'll assume a take 10 of 16, which is enough to know that yes, he's a local haberdasher-- considerably less well known than the baker, cobbler, etc. His stuff is mediocre at best. So maybe Hannelia had to think about it a second to remember who that is.

Just as a note, Hannelia-- you actually don't know Petrellano too well, that location was specifically left off the locals map. ;) But given your knowledge local +6 I'll assume a take 10 of 16, which is enough to know that yes, he's a local haberdasher-- considerably less well known than the baker, cobbler, etc. His stuff is mediocre at best. So maybe Hannelia had to think about it a second to remember who that is.

No worries, just trying to inject some flavour and picking one that was on the face of it less interesting!

Jeepers you're up early, what is it 5 AM over there?

Yeah, the joys of having a toddler who wakes up 5.30-6.00 every morning! I’m coherent enough then for quick OOC chat but probably not for IC posting (nor do I really have time with trying to get him fed, dressed etc.)

Ahh, yeah. Mine wake up closer to 6:30, I dunno how we'd be able to handle any earlier.

And about the IC thread, to be fair to Mr. Gunty, forgetting to flour dough seems like a pretty big oversight. Maybe he's not normally so tempermental.

I'm just trying to get some mileage out of my level 1 domain spell! I think I should actually save it for the temple instead of using it for the meek haberdasher.

@Hannelia: Maybe we can get started with the haberdasher in your next post or mine?

I'm just trying to get some mileage out of my level 1 domain spell! I think I should actually save it for the temple instead of using it for the meek haberdasher.

@Hannelia: Maybe we can get started with the haberdasher in your next post or mine?

Probably makes more sense that way round.

That's what I was moving towards. Post just up - done.

@Sirio: Don't think my reverse psychology efforts went well with that roll! Get your 1s out early I suppose. Hannelia's not much of an improviser bearing in mind Meticulous. The only other obvious tool in my arsenal I could try is charm person but we'd probably need to leave - I don't think he likes us much! - and come back with a plan to distract him as I think we're about to be kicked out.

Talon, what do your elf eyes see?

Seriously lucky roll there. Hopefully we didn't spend all our luck on perception rolls.

Talon, what do your elf eyes see?

Seriously lucky roll there. Hopefully we didn't spend all our luck on perception rolls.

Hopefully we spot SOMEthing. Wasting those rolls would make me sad. LOL

Haven't you played d20 rpgs before? That's exactly what happens every time!

hehehehe