Protectors of Golarion (Wrath of the Righteous AP)

Game Master Sensen

I just posted a suggestion, but I'm cool either way.

I can try talking to them so that Thesius can stay invisible, if you want, or Thesius can do it if that's more expedient? (I should be able to get another post up this evening if you want me to do it)

It's a light shield, and I had no idea you could hold items in that hand. Thanks for the heads up, that will definitely make spellcasting easier.

My real life is also a dumpster fire right now. My cat Missy May was just diagnosed with terminal cancer. She has approximately 1-3 months to live. So yeah, I'm a mess, she's been part of my life for 11 years and helped me through some very dark times. Sweetest and most affectionate cat I've ever known. Distraction helps right now, hence why I'm on the forums, but if I don't post for a day or two that's probably why.

I'm so sorry to hear that, Merixia. We'll offer what distraction we can, but if you need time, that's totally understandable.

I'm so sorry, Merixia. Losing a beloved cat is really tough. I hope her remaining time is as peaceful and full of love as it can be.

Probably shouldn't have rolled for myself there, because I bet that result will make them hostile even though that makes absolutely no sense at all given the circumstances and what she said/offered. Oh well.

I don't think you guys would be able to find this out in-character, so I figure I might as well add it - they were looters, and not terribly nice ones either. But, as they realized - getting into a pointless fight would only harm their chances of survival.

In fact the Ashen Ravens had no chance against you all. Each one's only a level 2 warrior - not even the fighters that the crazy crusaders were. However, they were also far less, uh, hysterical than the others.

I suppose the bag might be a good indicator, although I don't think Thesius is going to necessary judge that poorly off the bat. It's a lot of people trying to survive at this point in time.

"Intelligent creatures who haven't immediately threatened or attacked us? Those are called Friends and we should invite them to tea." - Verene, probably

I'm glad I'm not the only one mixing up Radiance and Righteous Eclipse's adjective.

I have the feeling once a trap is missed, the team may move towards multiple people taking a look. Those kind of rolls make me glad he'll eventually be able to take 10 on those.

Not a bad idea. I'll let you guys decide over the next day if you want me to make those rolls after Thesius hasn't found any, etc.

If you would like to leave us with more suspense, I'm willing to let you make those rolls as well Worldwound GM.

I think we're good to move forward if we wish to move the others over to towards the door.

Yep, same here. Good to move forward and good with you making those rolls if you deem it appropriate in the future, GM.

I'm planning on picking up Trap Spotter next level as well, so those rolls will go to you eventually when he walks within 10 feet of a trap.

Sorry, I'll try to get posts up later tonight, but it's been a kind of gross day.

Sorry to hear that, GM. No worries, take your time.

Indeed. Life comes first. I hope things turn around.

...oh those rolls.

A 1 and a 20... Meanwhile, just sad trombone noise all around over here.

Yes, I contributed to the non-combat skill check!

And disabled the trap, all in one!

Honestly, the other option was to mage hand it over, but oh well. I'm sure it won't be too important in the long run.

Yeah, unfortunately prestidigitation could not move it. It was too heavy for that. We've managed to bypass it without any seeming problems though, so that is a positive.

Oh was the bottle itself more than 1 pound? I think no one actually has mage hand at the ready, unfortunately, if Elliot's prepared spell list is accurate for today. I was going to have Verene prepare it but at the last second decided to prepare detect fiendish presence instead, as she's the only one who can prepare that one. However, levitate can be used at a distance of 25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels and cast on an unattended object, so the scale was going to be my suggestion for affecting the bottle while remaining on the stairs.

Yep, 2 pounds. Just a bit too much.

This might be dating myself, but do any of you remember the neverending story? Specifically, the scene in the swamp where the kid’s horse slowly sinks until it’s dead? That’s like my job, except I’m the kid and the horse is any shred of joy in my life (my job is the swamp).

Sorry for the delay (again), I might be able to get a post up tonight, otherwise I’ll definitely be able to get one up tomorrow.

You mean the "Traumatizing" Story that messed up many children.

And sorry to hear that. I left my old job about a year ago and glad I did.

Alas, poor Artax. :( Sorry Azira, I hope things turn around for you soon.

Sorry to hear that, Azira. I hope things improve for you.

Yeah, my best regards too, Azira. Hope things settle down for you.

Also, I'll be offline the next three days due to a somewhat impromptu mini-vacation. Please bot me if needed and I'll see you all when I get back :)

Elliot, you're right about chill touch being usable for a total of three touches when you cast it as a 3rd-level caster, but there is something fiddly about the Spellstrike + Spell Combat + held-charges-over-multiple-turns rules you may be missing.

To the best of my understanding of the rules as written, it works like this: On subsequent rounds of chill touch's duration after the round you cast it, making the touch attack is not free, but is instead your standard action. So your first attack this turn would definitely be the one that hits with a charge of chill touch. That is your standard action this round: a touch attack, which you can deliver as a weapon attack thanks to Spellstrike, but not the free touch attack you got as part of the action of casting the spell. To get a second ("free") attack this same turn, you would have to use Spell Combat to combine your regular attack with then casting another spell that gives a free touch attack as part of casting it (likely the arcane mark cantrip or another cast of chill touch.) However, this would require that you 1) give up the final charge of the original chill touch because you're casting another spell, and 2) either cast defensively or provoke an attack of opportunity.

Reading through the rules for spellstrike and spell combat again (they feel very poorly written to me when it comes to potential confusion for readers), I think you're correct, and that to get the two physical attacks, Elliot would have to cast a new touch spell every turn while using -2 on all his attacks. That would mean it's only possible to get two physical attacks and the touch attack on the initial casting of the spell while doing a full attack with -2 to hit on all.

On the plus side, according to the FAQ, it seems that when using multiple charge spells, every single weapon attack a magus makes from normal attacks, iteratives, haste effects and otherwise can use one charge of the spell. So spellstrike is not a special 'standard action' to use, but can be done passively with each physical attack. Supposedly, though, as long as you only use a one handed weapon and your other hand is free.

Yes, I think you're right, on all counts.

Choosing to channel it through the weapon means it's just two physical attacks. Not two physical and a touch attack is my understanding. You are trading that touch attack for a higher crit range and change to hit likely.

I believe Thesius is correct.

My sense is this: In order to use spellstrike, you have to cast a touch spell - that's what it is doing, casting a spell through the blade. In order to use spell combat (where you get the second attack), you need to cast any spell.

As you guys say, with chill touch combined with the ability of spellstrike, you would be able to use the weapon to channel your spell. However, unless you were using spell combat or some other form of multi-attack, you'd only get the one spellstrike per turn. If you do use spell combat this turn, you lose the chill touch charge when you spellstrike.

That said, in this case, it doesn't matter, since we can just say that you didn't do the second attack, and the gamestate is preserved. But man, you're right Elliot, that was confusing.

I think he meant getting the damage of the spell's first touch attack plus weapon damage, then another weapon damage from regular weapon attack. It would be two attack rolls, not three, but the equivalent of three attacks' worth of damage. If I understand it right, with Spell Combat + Spellstrike, on turn 1 of casting chill touch as part of a full attack, the magus could get spell damage + weapon damage on one attack, then weapon damage on his 'regular' attack. On turn 2 of full attacking, with 2/3 charges of chill touch remaining, he could either get spell damage + weapon damage on his 'regular' attack (a touch attack he's delivering through the weapon with Spellstrike) and stop there holding the final charge, or use Spell Combat at -2 to both attacks to also do another cast of a spell with a free touch attack, if he was willing to lose the final charge of that chill touch. Suppose he just did the standard action that turn though. Then, on turn 3 of full attacking, he can use Spell Combat and Spellstrike to deliver the final charge of chill touch damage + weapon damage, then cast chill touch again and deliver one charge of its damage + weapon damage. So max damage from this best possible turn of this combination is weapon damage x2 plus a charge of chill touch x2. It's complicated, but certainly good damage.

Edit: I think we all agree here, just maybe said it different ways. :)

Honestly, I would think at level three you could do the following:

Round 1: Cast Chill Touch with Spell Combat and make attack per Spellstrike. Make normal attack per Spell Combat with Chill Touch.

If both hit, it's two charges of Chill Touch down.

Round 2: Make normal attack with Spell Combat with Chill Touch (Using last charge of Chill Touch). Cast Chill Touch per Spell Combat and make attack per Spell Strike.

If last attack hits, it's two charges of Chill Touch left.

FAQ Post

Albeit, all of these attack are at -2. Round 3 would leave you with the decision of making additional attacks and losing charges or less attacks to make more use of the charges.

The only difference I see is: In that first round of Spell Combat + Spellstrike, if the magus casts and delivers chill touch through a weapon attack first, then makes a normal weapon attack per Spell Combat, does that weapon attack also deliver a second charge of the chill touch spell? The FAQ Thesius cites seems pretty unambiguous that it does in fact do so.

I don't really understand the reasoning, if the second attack is originally and specifically a normal weapon attack, not one of the touch attacks allowed by chill touch that is simply being delivered by a weapon attack. But being able to potentially deal weapon damage x2 and chill touch damage x2 in that first full round of Spell Combat casting is what the FAQ seems to say. That could affect Elliot's action economy and damage quite a lot. Although it wouldn't here, because he had to move on his first turn anyway, and so did not have a full round action to use Spell Combat.

It does require being within range for it and it's restricted to spells that have multiple charges. So it's not quite the same as using a shocking grasp. It could stack up with the strength damage though.

Oof. Plenty to keep in mind here.

Hm. Interesting. I think what Thesius says is true, as the spell combat ability doesn't specify the order in which the actions it grants have to be taken, and spellstrike as mentioned earlier is essentially a passive ability if you have a spell ready to use.

It seems to me that when you remove the wordsalad and account for new information from the faq, the magus abilities are essentially this:

Spell combat: 'while using a one handed weapon and your other hand is free, you can take a -2 penalty to all attack rolls to both full attack and *cast* a magus spell with a casting time of a standard action as part of and at any point during this attack sequence. If it it an attack spell, you make this attack with the same -2 penalty.'

Spellstrike: 'instead of *making a touch attack with a spell*, you can make a melee attack with your weapon. Alternatively, you can expend a charge of a touch spell when making a weapon attack. If the weapon hits, the weapon deals both weapon damage and the spell's damage. The spell's damage can critically hit along with the weapon, but always deals 2x damage instead of the normal weapon critical effect.

If both are true you could Thesius' suggested action sequence if you cast degensively and start in melee.

That's a really interesting thought, Elliot. I like it. Very creative.

I'll move us on later today, assuming that you use prestidigitation to lift and put them into a bag of some sort - it shouldn't be hard to find something safe-ish.

Mind, you could always leave them behind. It'd be a little rude, but there you go.

Due to computer issues, I may have to be incommunicado for a few days. Sorry about that. My monitor's going insane, and it's practically illegible at the moment. Hopefully it'll get fixed soon, but until then, my posting capacity will be limited. Sorry everyone.

No worries, GM. Thanks for letting us know, and I hope the monitor can be fixed or replaced soon.

Checking in. I hope all is going well.

Computer is fixed, so posting will resume tomorrow morning.

Glad to hear it, and welcome back. :)

Glad to hear things are turning around. Computer going South is not a fun one.

It really, really isn't. Anyways, onwards!