I think it depends on if the lacrymal glands around both eyes are completely destroyed/clogged. I suspect with most surface injuries that he could weep normally but I don't know the exact nature of his injury :') should also mention that this is outside my field of expertise.
Also, who knows if elves have the glands at the same place?
Btw, Elliot has a tiny bit of stealth (+4 atm in light armor). Not sure if that makes him the best scout but with invisibility he should be ok at least.
It was by a balor lord's flaming whip, so I suspect it was pretty severe. And you're right, who knows? Elves are (literally) aliens!
Elliot, did the Align Weapon scale get passed to Thesius?
Thesius is also sitting at a +4 currently because of armor check penalty from armor and buckler.
Elliot, did the Align Weapon scale get passed to Thesius?
Thesius is also sitting at a +4 currently because of armor check penalty from armor and buckler.
Sorry, i recall reading the same question earlier but forgot. if you want to use it, sure it can be on Thesius.
No worries. Plenty going on. I would not mind Thesius having it since it appears that Elliot's weapon can overcome cold iron. While the cold iron dagger is a nice fallback, the morningstar definitely packs a mightier whallop.
Indeed. Let me know who, if anyone, is going to scout. It seems like that's the general plan at this point, anyways.
Based on capabilities, I think Thesius makes the most sense. I'll make a quick post.
Feel free to roll checks for Thesius as you see fit Worldwound DM. Heightened Awareness boosts his perception to +13 and knowledge checks by +2. It's also a handy boost to initiative if necessary.
Sure thing. Post forthcoming soonish.
Given that the text of pyrotechnics says that the fireworks function of the spell makes colored aerial lights, I'm guessing it doesn't set things on fire? Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. :P
Pyrotechnics actually specifies that it extinguishes the source of fire it's cast on, so it could be extra useful here. I doubt the bad guys mean to do anything good with that circle of books, for instance. I'm not completely sure about the fireworks option for the spell (although given that it can't do any fire damage to anyone in the area and is described as colored lights, I'm very inclined to agree with Merixia) but the choking smoke cloud certainly shouldn't set anything alight.
GM: Yep, Verene got a big upgrade by copying several of Millorn's spells to her own spellbook when we returned to Neathholm yesterday in game time, which is where invisibility comes from. :) Since you said we would have level 2 spells prepared today, I also listed it as a new prepared spell in her last level-up changes post.
It extinguishes the original source, but creates fireworks. You don't tend to want to set off fireworks near flammable objects. Albeit, that is real world logic and this is fantasy. So I'll leave that to Worldwound GM to decide.
If it does come down to using the candle, it may be something where we set it at one of the openings I suppose.
Sorry for the delay, Thesius. He has about 2 and a half minutes remaining on the spell, and there's no fire in the building. Yet, at least.
Also, if you do somehow create a fire by accident, do note that only one of the foes will be threatened by it. Of course, so will all the captives, who can't get out of the building if it starts burning... to say nothing of the books.
I will say that the fireworks application won't usually cause fires. If it were directed specifically at something especially flammable - the sorts of things spark would work on, it would work just as well in my opinion. It'd be kind of a waste of effort, and probably wouldn't blind as many people, though.
Hm, I wonder how blindness affects coup-de-grace...
Yeah, it's going to be trick trying to get them all out alive. Although the following makes me think that perhaps I should place the flame in a space where they can all see it.
You can’t deliver a coup de grace against a creature that is immune to critical hits. You can deliver a coup de grace against a creature with total concealment, but doing this requires two consecutive full-round actions (one to “find” the creature once you’ve determined what square it’s in, and one to deliver the coup de grace).[/dice]
Ah, excellent to know. Well, they do know what square to look in, at least.
Which it helpful. It makes since they would kind of need to determine where they are and where to strike prior to applying the coup de grace.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So I would think the following:
*Thesius directs Verene into the corner.
*Thesius directs Merixia to stand to the left of Verene, and to ready herself to step forward and invoke her power once he enters and whistles.
*The others move forward to the wall to prepare to enter as quickly as possible.
*Thesius takes the candle from Verene, moves inward, and turns his head while closing his eyes and turning his head away from the held out handle signaling Merixia.
*Fireworks ensue and all hell breaks loose.
Does that sound like a plan?
Sounds like a plan! However, I think Thesius might need to put the candle down in order for Merixia to see it, since he's under an invisibility spell. We can't see his clothes or gear, so logically we wouldn't be able to see an object he's holding.
I'll wait a bit longer to see if Azira chimes in before I post.
Thesius is not planning on trying to hide the candle in his clothing or gear, so the candle will remain visible. So that should not be a worry other than a floating candle alerting the enemies inside.
Hm, I'd say that the candle and fire would be invisible, but the light it generates would not be. That's just my thoughts - if anyone knows any actual rules, let me know.
I think the spell description says that visible objects picked up stay visible unless they are hidden by part of the invisible character (it gives the example of tucking something into your clothing), in which case they are hidden. And light sources always continue to cast their light whether the source is visible or not. I feel like holding a candle in one hand with the other cupped around it would probably grant the candle effective invisibility.
But in any case, Thesius, my thinking was: the candle/torch is still behind the wall until Thesius moves it elsewhere, so it wouldn't be the floating candle/torch they might notice, but the normal light cast in a 20' radius by a torch (some of which would make it through the broken wall) vs only a dim 5' radius by a candle.
The invisibility spell outlines how it works.
Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Light, however, never becomes invisible, although a source of light can become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). Any part of an item that the subject carries but that extends more than 10 feet from it becomes visible.
Of course, the subject is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the recipient detectable (such as swimming in water or stepping in a puddle). If a check is required, a stationary invisible creature has a +40 bonus on its Stealth checks. This bonus is reduced to +20 if the creature is moving. The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character's perceptions. Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area.
Invisibility can be made permanent (on objects only) with a permanency spell.
The floating candle would potentially be noticed when he moves into the opening and into the room.
Yeah, and tucking a lit object into one's clothing sounds like a rather bad idea.
Ah, there you have it, then. I guess if they're held beforehand, they go invisible like the rest of the person.
Oh, is he going inside with it? Huh. Okay.
Unless the effect goes around corners, the effect would not reach the one standing guard over the prisoners. Blinding that one in particular would be useful to help protect the prisoners. It might blind the prisoners, but it could buy time to give Thesius the chance to cut their ties.
A readied action can include a 5-foot step from my understanding, so Merixia being able to 5-foot step up into Thesius' spot would give her the ability to peak around the wall to activate her spell-like ability when he gives the signal. A signal that will help further draw the attention of the enemies to the light source.
Thesius is open to plans, but I'm just trying to make the most of the situation. The understanding that full concealment lengthens the time to perform a coup de grace kind of made the benefit clear in blinding the one next to the captives.
The PRD clarifies further in the glossary section on invisibility: "If an invisible character picks up a visible object, the object remains visible. An invisible creature can pick up a small visible item and hide it on his person (tucked in a pocket or behind a cloak) and render it effectively invisible. One could coat an invisible object with flour to at least keep track of its position (until the flour falls off or blows away)." If you can hide a small thing by putting it behind your cloak, a part of your body should work just as well. For example, a coin picked up by an invisible creature and held in its palm stays visible, but if the creature closes its hand around it, the coin would vanish.
He could put his dagger away and try to hide it behind a piece of clothing. With it being on fire, he would not want to put it too close to his clothing though. This does not remove the light from coming through though. I would hope seeing a floating candle might cause a bit of confusion.
I vaguely thought he could toss the candle to where he wanted the effect to originate from and Merixia would be ready to cast on it midair/as soon as she could see it. Anyway, not super relevant since every source agrees that the light cast by the candle will stay visible no matter what, so once Thesius starts by doing something, we're likely just into intiative. Hopefully we get a surprise round on them. :)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would be afraid the candle would be extinguished from tossing it. A torch perhaps not so much.
Well, Verene is still carrying Elliot's torch, now unlit. So if you prefer a quick light-and-toss of that, just assume she cooperates. :)
If we wish to switch over to the torch, I'm fine with that. He could 5-foot step and chuck the torch in while Merixia moves forward and activates her ability. Hopefully that will put us in a good spot as we fall into initiative. Thesius will pop heightened senses to hopefully give him the edge he needs to close the distance and start freeing the captives.
Oh, damn, I should've said this before. The hole in the walls is difficult terrain - this may impact your plans - it should, if you're using a 5-foot step into the wall hole, so to speak.
I'll give it a few hours for more discussion before getting everyone in position and setting it off.
With that in mind, perhaps Thesius should move into the opening, Merixia into his current square, and then he can take the torch from Merixia and toss it in to allow Merixia to focus on using her spell-like ability?
Is the outside portion just difficult terrain or is the square inside as well?
Both, alas.
If we go with the candle, the fact that it’s day might allow Thesius to get all the way inside, past the difficult terrain, without being spotted. It sounds like the enemy tieflings are preoccupied with their captives right now. Take the candle in, set it down, and move out of the way before the fireworks start. Merixia or one of the others can be the one to make some noise to ensure everyone is looking in the direction of the spell. We wouldn’t want anyone suspecting an invisibility spell in play, after all.
Now that I think about it, I think it would be best if someone else yelled or whistled while Merixia was in the process of spellcasting. Let’s limit the amount of time they have to realize what’s going on.
If I don’t get home before the festivities begin, Merixia is planning to cover her face with her shield right as she completes the spell.
Remember that SLAs don't have verbal or somatic (or any other, for that matter) components.
Sorry I've been quiet the last few days, I've been coughing my lungs out and loopy on cough medicine (its not Covid, I got tested). I'm hoping to feel up to posting this afternoon/evening but please feel free to bot me if you need to.
1. Thesius stows dagger.
2. Thesius opens winter coat.
3. Thesius takes candle with right hand.
4. Thesius moves the candle behind the left fold of his jacket to make the candlestick disappear, but not the light. He holds the jacket out some with his left hand to help prevent the candle from a) lighting him on fire and b) suffocating it.
5. Thesius moves into the opening.
6. Merixia moves into the position Thesius was.
7. Thesius attempts to silently move into the building 15 feet, pulls his jacket away from the candle to reveal it, closes his eyes, turns his head away, and whistles to alert Merixia he is ready and pull the attention of the enemies to the light. (Lots of what I think would be kind of free actions)
8. Merixia activates her ability and things get going.
Sounds good to me. I'll get a post together soon.
Unfortunately, SLA DCs scale off of Cha, so Merixia's DC for pyrotechnics is, uh, 12. I didn't realize this until I posted, unfortunately.
Putting her shield in front of her face and closing her eyes wouldn’t be enough to stop her from being affected?
And I hadn’t realized that about SLAs, I thought they went off your primary spellcasting stat. Boo, Paizo!
Now, I'm trying to figure this out, because on one hand, blinding a whole bunch of enemies for a time is actually pretty strong (her SLA's low DC notwithstanding). On the other, blinding yourself with your own spell really feels kind of counterintuitive.
Of course, I feel like you need to have clear sight to your target to cast a spell, so in normal combat there's not actually enough time for anyone to avert their gaze. In this case, however, Merixia was prepared and it wasn't actually urgent that she have her eyes on the fire and generally open at the same time. Therefore, I'm willing to say that she could get her eyes closed quick enough. I'll give it a +2 bonus to her save, but that's actually not enough for her to save (she needs +3).
As I said in the post, there's a good reason why it's long range. Mind you, I feel like if I were writing the spell, I'd cut down the radius to maybe 50 ft, and the range to medium, but... I dunno. Anyone else have thoughts here? This feels somewhat unfair to me - sticking her with blindness for this rather inventive tactic, but it does seem to be RAW.
I also looked to the gaze rules to see what they are, but I'm not sure they really apply here, because it could be bright enough to cut through one's eyelids, I think.
The spell description says you have to have line of sight to the fire in order to be affected, wouldn’t the shield break her line of sight?
And yeah, the radius is kind of ridiculous as written, even with her low Cha. It is a 2nd level spell, but still.
Right, even for a 2nd level spell. As for that, that's a fair enough point. Sure, go ahead, then.
Thesius' initiative would have been 4 higher because of using the spell on the initiative roll. That does not appear to make much of a difference though.
If it's low-light, I think Thesius is fine seeing in it. Would that be correct? Him having low-light vision and all.
Oops, shoot, you're right on both counts. It's heightened awareness, yes? And you triggered it, right, right. I forget that you can do that - my other game's bard uses it but doesn't trigger it for combat, because he needs it for identifying monsters.
I figured this situation was a worthy cause to expend it in hopes of saving the captives.
Are the captives bound in a fashion that Thesius could focus on a single rope to free them enough to run or does he need to cut each one free?
Edit: Work break is ending. I'll be back later.
Well, from what he could tell before the darkness, he'd be able to cut them all free, but doing that and not cutting their flesh whilst in dim light would be... risky.