Planesfinder Gameplay

Game Master Nathanael Love

Discussion thread for Planesfinder game.

Welcome Planesfinders!

Moving past recruitment and concept phase, its time to work out the full crunch for these characters--

15 Point point buy
1 Trait from any category (including provisionally a campaign trait from any AP with approval)

Second trait is based on affiliation- either choose a Planescape faction or sect, or you will effectively have an "unaffiliated" trait here- for Primes this will be "Clueless"

Knowledge Planes/Background Skills:
SO- instead of background skills (especially as this game will have very little time for crafting/professions/ect) I am modifying the Knowledge (Planes) skill, and giving it as background skills--

That is-- you will get two ranks at each level in a Planes Knowledge from the Planes that you visited during the time that you gained that level.

Yes- each Plane is effectively its own Knowledge Skill, and Primes each Prime is its own skill.
For 1st level, you will start with 1 rank in your home Plane and 1 Rank is another appropriate plane- presumably a heaven or hell you were aware of on your own plane/religion, or for Planar's another Plane you have visited)

Equipment-- 75 gold, plus one of the packages from the Well Provisioned Adventurer Trait

I'm about 70% done with crunch. I need to work on equipment and select 1st level formulae.

For tiefling I was planning on selecting the daemon-spawn subrace, great-grand-ma was an arcanoloth. If I do that am I still able to trade out the spell-like ability? I was looking at the big list of variant tiefling abilities and eying DR 2/cold iron.

I will be a bleaker as stated in recruitment. Does anyone who's not familiar with Planescape need help with facitons? I can go over that they're about if needed. There's a lot of info dump and I'm glad to help out in that regard.

Yes- you can still swap it out, but the DR 2/Cold Iron's on the random list, so you'd have to submit to the will of the Planes and roll for it.

Dotting in. Will get to crunch over the next 24 hours. I have some old Plansescape books, but will probably enjoy a link to somewhere where the factions are listed...though if I don’t think Avesska will have had time to ingratiate herself with a Faction I might just go Clueless.

@The Mimir - Avesska will have Planes Knowledge Astral and....is Sigil a possibility? Other than that I’m not too sure - Ethereal if the githzerai are from there seems probable.

- Also, will need hard rules for githyanki.

@The Mimir, going to keep death-knell, there is enough garbage on that table that I don't want to risk it.

Thought about linking 1d4 chan, but there are spoilers for one of the big campaign changing adventures.

Can I sell gear I don't want in those packages? There isn't any one package that fits just right.

My goblin druid is still a work-in-progress. Luckly, Gribblix was originally created for another Planefinder campaign that fizzled. So, I just need to reduce the crunch I have now.

Gribblix will have a +0 Str modifier and is Small. He definitely would not be able to lug around even the small-sized Wilderness Wanderer Package. What advice can you give me concerning Gribblix's overflowing equipment?

Thanks GFP! I would say that although Avesska has entertained notions that align with the The Free League, the Revolutionary League and the Sign of One, of late she has been drawn to the Transcendent Order - seems to be a home away from home given her upbringing.

Will look at the adventurer packages...

Thank you for taking me on board Mimir! Nice to be in the game with everyone.

Hard work just to find an appropriate Avatar :P

I am using this as the race base for my Minotaur - is that correct?

Factions Break Down from Mimir Net

It looks like it links to the books for more information, but those links are busted, but it at least gives a snippet for each- I can post expanded information on any people are interested in or have questions on.

There are also Sects- these are minor/small and centered on planes other than Sigil.

Specifically on Githyanki-

Bunch of movement here WHILE I was typing that!

@Package gear- yes you can sell off the mundane pieces from them for 1/2 gold price, but not the potions/scrolls

Masterwork and special materials weapons you could also swap for the same material/masterwork but a different weapon of the same type (melee for melee or ranged to ranged)

@Gribblix- either sell what you won't ever use, snag a pack animal (there are cheap one, and I won't kill it THAT often!), or theoretically "stash" it someplace to return to when you're back at Sigil.

@Glutton- thank you! That's a very concise break down of the factions.

@Throrgar- yes, I am also giving you a reduced version of the Minotaur's Natural cunning-- Immune to Maze spells, and +2 racial bonus to Survival rolls to avoid getting lost.

Can Gribblix get an account in the Sigil bank? The character concept of a bum sage doesn't work when he got hundreds of gold in walking-around money.

Dotting in. Will get to crunch over the next 24 hours. I have some old Plansescape books, but will probably enjoy a link to somewhere where the factions are listed...though if I don’t think Avesska will have had time to ingratiate herself with a Faction I might just go Clueless.

Imma ditto this. Some direction for this would be appreciated. (I mean, I know I'm clueless, but I'd like to know how clueless. ^_^

Also, a special message for Oceanshieldwolf: The main reason I didn't try to submit a Marshall? Because I know you are better than I am. =)

@Gribblix- yes, there are banks in Sigil you could have stashed gold in, or if its important for your concept that you are poor you can simply not keep parts of the kit that are beyond what you can/want to carry.

@Rankev-- slide up above and Glutton broke down the Factions very well; as far as Clueless go- they are just that: you only recently got to the Planes and you are learning everything as you go- presumably the first time you encounter any Planar location, Faction, or creature is the first time you've encountered it.

You can play up the comedy of that or down as much as you want- it doesn't mean "stupid" just uninitiated, but some people do like to introduce "misunderstandings" for effect.

Added Slides & Links to campaign info including a link to a simple treasure tracker and a blank document to use for Adventure Journal-- if someone wants to modify/or use a different format for either, by all means, but at a mininum it will give a spot to track things.

Will use the Google slides for combat maps, ect.

I'll leave updating the Adventure Journal primarily to the players- but I will drop in information on NPCs & their images when you add them.

I do have the campaign organized by "story parts"- so when I use

Big Bold Text those are the titles of those adventure parts which will be a helpful way to organize the journal.

Second trait is based on affiliation- either choose a Planescape faction or sect, or you will effectively have an "unaffiliated" trait here- for Primes this will be "Clueless"

1) Am I supposed to know what the trait based on the faction will be? Or am I supposed to pick something that seems appropriate?

2) Any chance on being allowed one drawback for another trait? I kinda had my heart set on codifying him as Power-Hungry.

No- pick something based on character appropriate-ness rather than the benefit of the trait-- these traits will be on the powerful side compared to ordinary traits and mimic the original Planescape benefits of faction membership.

Also no on drawbacks- if you want him to be power hungry, play him as power hungry, but I'm not a fan of the drawback for extra trait trade off- it makes it feel mandatory in a way I like to avoid.

Fair enough!

3) What do you think of the Feat Tax school of thought?
(As a mage I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I find the discussion intriguing. And I don't know if the other martial characters would be interested in any of this.)

I've used it in a game before- and as a player who builds complicated martial characters and often finds myself 2-3 feats short of making something "work" I understand why some people prefer to use it-- but I think it goes too far, and it effectively nerfs entire classes (U Rogue, Swashbuckler, and honestly straight fighter) by giving everyone their goodies for free which is why I usually do not use it and won't be here-- also, Mythic feats require their base counterparts to exist and that will give martials a lot of extra oomph, so another reason to stick to the original.

That said-- if a martial character is building towards a particular feat chain and the requirements are simply too onerous, I am willing to be flexible on a situational basis.

(I suspect that if I had made a Pathfinder 1.5 from the ground up I'd end up somewhere between where the feat chains are in the CRB and the EITR solution)

Crunch is pretty much done, taming equipment was an ordeal. @Gribblix maybe our minotaur friend can help carry some of our stuff; this alchemist kit is heavy!

To do:
Write appearance
Write intro

Now that I have done a first crunch for Throrgar, I have to say I am not immensely happy with the end result...

Sacred Fist are a weird class: much less feats than a warpriest, weaker flurry, ki abilities weaker than the ones for monk, unarmed attacks don't count as manufactured weapons for buffs... Dunno. I am taking some time to digest the options.

This is OSW's Direlock - still finishing crunch.

Took the Corporeal Warrior adventurer's pack, and Medium Armor Proficiency to take advantage of the masterwork breastplate. Swapped the heavy mace for light and the longsword for bastard sword.

Faction: Transcendent Order

Planar Knowledge: Astral, Ehtereal

How are we calculating hit points?

Now that I have done a first crunch for Throrgar, I have to say I am not immensely happy with the end result...

Sacred Fist are a weird class: much less feats than a warpriest, weaker flurry, ki abilities weaker than the ones for monk, unarmed attacks don't count as manufactured weapons for buffs... Dunno. I am taking some time to digest the options.

The 15 point buy will cruel a monk-like build. Same for something like a direlock that needs Strength to be effective in combat, Intelligence for counterspelling, Charisma as the main engine for the abilities, not to mention some Constitution just not to die to quick.

Then again, berk, this is Planar, so shut your brainbox to complaints and stay alive!!!

@Throrgar- yes, I am also giving you a reduced version of the Minotaur's Natural cunning-- Immune to Maze spells, and +2 racial bonus to Survival rolls to avoid getting lost.

And thanks for that! :)

The 15 point buy will cruel a monk-like build. Same for something like a direlock that needs Strength to be effective in combat, Intelligence for counterspelling, Charisma as the main engine for the abilities, not to mention some Constitution just not to die to quick.

Tell me about it... Still it is the concept I have in my head, so that is the one I will roll with. And I think I am starting him off at level 1 with UC Monk, and Warpriest from level 2.

Considered being an 'unarmed fighter' (with IUS, TWF, etc) Warpriest but... It puts additional strain on the stats so I had to throw that one out the window pretty fast.

Basic crunch for level 1 is now in this alias.

I am undecided between the Corporeal Warrior Package (because of the nice pots for an unarmed character) and the Lore Seeker Package (the only one without armor and not with scrolls which I cannot use).

Also, a special message for Oceanshieldwolf: The main reason I didn't try to submit a Marshall? Because I know you are better than I am. =)

How am I better than you? So confused.... I thought I only got here because there was no-one else to choose from... (don’t tell Throrgar his competition withdrew...)

@OSW/Avesska- I'm good with that for your Githyanki.

MAX HP for first level- definitely. We can get a poll/feel whether people would prefer rolled or half+1 for levels 2 onward, but we have time before then.

I don't think any players are better/worse than others-- but OSW and Albion the two who ended up with no competition would have had a leg up on those submitting against them because of the races/home planes they chose-- having some of those classic Planescape tropes in the party felt necessary-- if anyone had submitted a Rogue Modron I would have had a hard time not picking them.

@Throgur re: unarmed Strike-- I'm willing to read the Sacred Fist's Unarmed Strike ability expansively to include the "counts as both a manufactured weapon. . ."-- seems an oversite to exclude that language from the Monk version but NOT add Magic Fang to your spell list.

@Throgur & Gribblix--as divine casters your magic suffers the further away from your deities plane you are, so we need firm decisions on where those deities reside-- Gribblix, if you worship Sigil as a concept (or the Lady) that would be "Outlands"; Throgur- you should probably either worship one of the Krynn deities (who I will be able to look up his home plane) or if you're with the non-specific deity you'd effectively choose a Plane which most closely represents your philosophy (most likely either Mount Celestia or Arcadia for Lawful Good).

I'm going with the kinder/gentler version of the effect (compared to 2nd ed where you'd simply lose spell access) where you cast as a lower caster level, but do not ever reduce spell slots for the day.

@Avesska-- Direlock is CHA arcane caster right?

If so, you, Glutton, and Rankev will all be subject to the Planar effects for Arcane magic which vary greatly by plane (though Sigil is relatively free- the main issue on sigil is that Summoning creatures is impossible here).

@Avesska- I'm not seeing alignment? Remember you need to be partially Neutral to join Ciphers. . .

For Glutton. . .

Rankev "Power" Davis wrote:

Also, a special message for Oceanshieldwolf: The main reason I didn't try to submit a Marshall? Because I know you are better than I am. =)

How am I better than you? So confused.... I thought I only got here because there was no-one else to choose from... (don’t tell Throrgar his competition withdrew...)

Minotaurs can be pretty intimidating (even if I do not have the skill to back it) :P

@Throgur re: unarmed Strike-- I'm willing to read the Sacred Fist's Unarmed Strike ability expansively to include the "counts as both a manufactured weapon. . ."-- seems an oversite to exclude that language from the Monk version but NOT add Magic Fang to your spell list.

Thanks for considering it Mimir, but... The other stuff kinda turns me off a bit - I think I will stick with the UC Monk at level 1, and then WP from there.

@Throgur & Gribblix--as divine casters your magic suffers the further away from your deities plane you are, so we need firm decisions on where those deities reside-- Gribblix, if you worship Sigil as a concept (or the Lady) that would be "Outlands"; Throgur- you should probably either worship one of the Krynn deities (who I will be able to look up his home plane) or if you're with the non-specific deity you'd effectively choose a Plane which most closely represents your philosophy (most likely either Mount Celestia or Arcadia for Lawful Good).

As a deity I am going with Kiri-Jolith for Throrgar - I think his Homeplane is Bytopia (NG/LG). In any case, and since he will not be a divine caster from level 1, it should not affect him yet. Thumbs up for going with the less harsher rules though :D

Correct then- Kiri-Jolith lives in the Heart of Justice on Bytopia.

That's fair- I know you're on the Guardian path so the punching is more intrinsic to the concept than the spell casting- but with one (or more) levels monk Sacred Fist does all specifically state it stacks with monk so you get the beneifts.

Actually the plan is taking straight up Warpriest levels after level 1 - not Sacred Fist :P

EDIT: Mimir, any chance Throrgar could instead have one Background Skill Point in Knowledge (Prime Material-Krynn) and another instead in Profession (Sailor)? It is part of his background, and also the mariner tradition for Krynn Minotaurs.

Fair enough, and yes- if you want to use your first level Background skill for Profession (Sailor) that's acceptable.

Wow, it looks like I'm the slow one to post here - that's what I get for posting yesterday at the same time as the DM and not seeing that I was selected...

I will be reviewing the thread and making adjustments today. Thank you for selecting me!

Edit: Cheyanne will have knowledge of Planes-Golarion and Planes-Axis, unless that doesn't make sense. Axis is where Irori, her divine ideal, makes his home. If in Planescape this would translate to another LN plane, please let me know.

Thanks!

That's everyone checked in here- let me know when your crunch is ready and whenever you're ready do your in character into in game play.

@Grbblix- reading your backstory more carefully, whether you know it or not, the profession you are describing in Sigil is called being a "Tout".

Faction Bane: While immune to unnatural madness, Bleakers are prone to natural madness- each day, roll 1d20- on a roll of 1 you enter a state of manic euphoria for the day and on a roll of 20 you fall into a fit on ennui and depression.

Instead could I roll on the greater madness table on a 1 and the lesser madness table on a 20? madness tables

The Mimir wrote:

Faction Bane: While immune to unnatural madness, Bleakers are prone to natural madness- each day, roll 1d20- on a roll of 1 you enter a state of manic euphoria for the day and on a roll of 20 you fall into a fit on ennui and depression.

Instead could I roll on the greater madness table on a 1 and the lesser madness table on a 20? madness tables

Yes- I dig it, but either way it only lasts a day.

Perfect!

@The Mimir - How exactly are we choosing the faction/Clueless trait? I don't understand so far...

Cheyanne will definitely be clueless - she's not book-smart nor deeply philosophical and is a Prime, so she won't know anything really. Mechanically I was hoping to get Use Magic Device as a class skill, but am selecting another trait (Fate's Favored) as my chosen trait.

Alternatively, is the feat Additional Traits available for selection?

The various gear-packages really don't fit monks. I will try to find one that works and edit it reasonably, but would appreciate any advice folks have for this.

Thanks!

MAX HP for first level- definitely. We can get a poll/feel whether people would prefer rolled or half+1 for levels 2 onward, but we have time before then.

FWIW, I am -vehemently- against rolling for anything for a character, be it ability scores (which, thankfully, is almost an extinct practice) or hit points.

The very nature of rolling for something so very very, very impactful and permanent is inherently unfair and detrimental to a fulfilling play experience.
It seems like there are no winners when things are rolled. Rolled too low? Things are gonna suck for you no matter your class. To high? Now you're an undying warbringer just because a few numbers on the dice favored you.
Randomness just means that the wizard got more hit points than the barbarian for that level because reasons.

Roll for combat? Sure. You're rolling a whole bunch for only a round's worth of value, and, eventually, even if you're having a bad day, Lady Statistics will have her way.
Roll for hit points? No. Having a bad day means that you don't actually get to be more powerful for this level. Better luck next time.

Also, this means that I'm just as against the argument that Weak characters are better. Getting -away- from saying 'FML' is why I'm here. If I wanted to be continually disappointed I'd go to a bar and do my taxes.

IMHO. YMMV.

Gribblix's profile page/character sheet is ready for review.

@Darkone-- you'll just get your Clueless trait (I'm still working on exactly what I want for it); yes, if you want to use a feat on additional traits I'm fine with that

@Rankev- I mostly agree, but rolling for character traits is such a 2nd Ed thing that for a game which is why if the majority wanted for HP I'd allow it (I love it for things like Tiefling/Aasimar alternate traits- the books that introduced those in 2nd Ed were two of my favorites). Half+1 is pretty standard and fine as well.

As far as the philosophical "weak characters are better"-- I don't think "weak" is the right thing- there's definitely an argument that characters with flaws are fun, but it doesn't need to be a mechanical flaw- I mean, what makes the Paladin such a fun character concept that's endured even when mechanically weaker is the code of conduct acting as a type of flaw; I agree its not the most fun to play the guy who got boned and can die in one hit and has four 8s starting him down.

Random tiefling feature: 1d100 ⇒ 74 Bleeding pores, fun!

I think I will have Cheyanne find an Arcane Adept's package shortly upon entering Sigil. It makes no sense for her to come prepared, since she will be Clueless, and that package has the most stuff I think she can use effectively. She will be selling much of it back (at half price for the mundane items). I don't expect to sell back anything that is magical or unusual.

Will that work? If so, then she is ready for review and her sheet can be found here. Upon your approval, @The Mimir, I will post an introduction in the in-character thread.

Fair enough!

For my Clueless trait, I'm picturing Rankev being like a guy who never thought he'd even get a speeding ticket, suddenly landing himself in jail. He's a newb, he accepts that he's a newb, and needs to keep his eyes open and mouth shut before he becomes someone's plaything.
Hence, mirroring the Seeker trait seemed appropriate.

I did some more math - selling the stuff Cheyanne wouldn't want from the kit would look like this:

Arcane Adept Package

To Keep -

Combat Gear: Acid (2), Scrolls of Comprehend Languages (2), Scroll of Detect Secret Doors, Scroll of Glitterdust, Scrolls of Identify (2), Scroll of Mount, Scroll of Rope Trick, Thunderstone, Wand of Mage Armor (16 charges).

Other Gear: Ioun Torch, Scroll Box, Silk Rope (50 ft.), Trail Rations (5 days), 3 gp.
---------------------------------

To Sell: Gear valued at 164 GP, 5 SP total. Selling it at half value for 82 GP, 2 SP, and 5 CP back.

To Sell -

Weapons: Light crossbow (35 GP) with 10 bolts (1 GP), quarterstaff (0 GP)

Other Gear: Backpack (2 GP), bedroll (1 SP), belt pouch (1 GP), candles (5) (5 CP), chalk (5 pieces) (5 CP), flint and steel (1 GP), ink (8 GP), inkpen (1 SP), journal (10 GP), magnifying glass (100 GP), mess kit (2 SP), spell component pouch (5 GP), waterskin (1 GP)
---------------------------------

How does that sound?

Thanks!

@Mimir: Ok, will add racial info to alias writeup.

* Yes, Charisma caster. It won’t be an issue for a while...

* Going with True Neutral - Avesska has strayed from the excesses of Githyanki evil and her quasi-monastic training in the direlock fortress has instilled her with a sense of balance...That’s a good trait.

* Max HP at first level will help yes...

* May sell a few items from gear...

@Gribblix - is that really the Free League’s Faction trait? It seems underpowered.

@Gribblix- replace your Free League trait with this:

Changes made to Gribblix. [thumbs up]