Since I have already collected a majority of the information needed for the chronicle, I just need you to fill in a few blanks.
Faction you will be representing:
Your default exploration activity:
Since they went away with slotting boons, no need to worry about that step.
Please save your downtime rolls for after the scenario.
After the briefing, I will give you time to pick out your school items.
I request that you fill out the first two slides of this Presentation. It will make my life a bit easier.
Last but, not least. Let's have some fun.
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Huh, was expecting interest from more than 3 players with Gameday winding down. :)
Faction: Horizon Hunters
Default Exploration: Avoid Notice
(Hmm, actually we need at least one person Seeking. If no one else is doing that, then Khunbish will then.)
I still need to update Khunbish's character sheet. He has since leveled to L5.
I am expecting a 5th player joining us and they are bringing a 4th level barbarian.
Once they check in, we will move forward. If you have not done so yet, please fill out the information in my presentation, labeled Star-Crossed Voyages in my tag line, and have your profile and tag line up to date.
3,3,4,5,5=2,2,3,4,4=15
So looks like we are at 15CP. You all just squeaked in to low tier play.
So it looks like Griss and Khunbish have the same avatar for the Paizo boards. Could one of you change an avatar, if not, just make you tokens on the presentation distinguishable from one another.
Gameplay is now active.
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** spoiler omitted **
So looks like we are at 15CP. You all just squeaked in to low tier play.
So it looks like Griss and Khunbish have the same avatar for the Paizo boards. Could one of you change an avatar, if not, just make you tokens on the presentation distinguishable from one another.
Alright, have changed Khunbish's avatar.
Yep. We do have room for one more. If you can follow this Link and add you information to it for your chronicle.
Then head to the presentation in my header and place a token and fill out the information on the first slide, so we can get started.
This will bump our challenge points to 17. We will still be low tier table, I'll just be adding a level bump to the scenario.
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Boons work the same, except you don't need to slot them. You don't need to worry about a restriction of "only one fortune boon" for example. You just have all the boons that you have applied to your character available.
There are exceptions, but all of them are things you deciding during game. For example, you can only benefit from one Advanced boon during an adventure. Rules listed here. This applies to Advanced, Ally (in a different way), and Promotional boons.
For all other boons there is no other restriction aside the fact that you can't apply the same boon twice to a character (unless it states you can).
Those are the boon restrictions as I understand them.
Not really sure on the nomenclature of ships...I know most of the ships that PFS has used in the past, you have to be on the back of the ship to help steer.
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I thought the helm was usually at the front of the ship?
This is what I'm imagining is a ship with the helm at the back.
@Azu, your call
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As an FYI, Known Weakness only works agains the creature you made the Recall against. In this case it was the green sea devil, which is now defeated. So we won't get any bonuses against the others.
That's interesting, I didn't realize that. Here's where my confusion lies:
From Devise a Stratagem: "If you're aware that the creature you choose is the subject of a lead you're pursuing, you can use this ability as a free action."
Thus, if an Investigator Pursues a Lead, he's following clues to all creatures it leads to, not just a single one of those creatures. Thus, I would think Devise a Stratagem applies to all copies of that creature.
But perhaps your issue is mainly with the Recall Knowledge part of the action. Fair enough. But normally when PCs do a Recall Knowledge, we gain info on the creature in general (resistances, weaknesses, soft-underbelly, etc.) which describe all such creatures, not just a selected one. Known Weaknesses says: "If you immediately convey this information to your allies as part of the check, each ally gains a +1 circumstance bonus to their next attack roll against the subject." I assumed it meant the subject of the investigation, but I see where it could mean the specific subject being strategized against.
Regarding the Recall Knowledge portion: a) This only applies if the Investigator crits. b) I believe PCs can only do a Recall Knowledge ONCE per type of creature, so the Investigator gets ONE crack at it. c) In the unlikely event that ALL that works out (CRITTING on the ONE chance he has), it's simply a +1 to the allies first attack rolls. Not gonna break anything if the correct interpretation is that it affects the subject of the lead.
In contrast, Shared Stratagem specifically says "When you hit a creature with an attack on which you substituted your attack roll due to Devising a Stratagem, designate one ally. [u]The creature you hit[/u] is flat-footed to that ally on the next attack the designated ally makes against that creature before the start of your next turn.". So clearly, the flat-foot thing only applies to the creature that was hit.
If I misunderstood the Known Weakness/Recall Knowledge thing, I apologize. Obviously, still trying to figure out the new class. GM ZD, what's your take?
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I have my own investigator, so that's why I have some inclination. Let me also state, I've been tracking PF2 since the playtest, and was an active participant on the forums and reading about the changes, etc. I imagine others here were also part of the Playtest. I bring this up to explain that the philosophy of Paizo with PF2 was to nerf the bejesus out of character agency. In other words, Paizo went out of its way to make sure the benefit from abilities and feats, was narrow and minimal. I say that for the benefit of anyone trying to interpret some of these things.
The analysis actually starts with Purse a Lead:
This subject is typically a single creature, item, or small location (such as a room or corridor), but the GM might allow a different scope for your investigation.
Pursue of Lead is intended to apply a very narrow focus. It would never apply to a group of creatures unless it was a swarm. There are no rules to resolve which creature is the lead when there are a group of them. This is the same problem Hunt Prey has when you can designate a creature that you can hear. Most GMs assign it randomly to avoid a player gaming the system e.g. choosing which ever creature is most convenient.
Because Devise a Stratagem only works on one creature, Known Weakness only applies to that creature.
Per the rules, you can make multiple attempts at Recall on the same creature.
Core Rulebook p.506
Sometimes a character might want to follow up on a check to Recall Knowledge, rolling another check to discover more information. After a success, further uses of Recall Knowledge can yield more information, but you should adjust the difficulty to be higher for each attempt. Once a character has attempted an incredibly hard check or failed a check, further attempts are fruitless—the character has recalled everything they know about the subject.
However, the DC is suppose to go up per the table on page 504 Hard +2, Very Hard +5, Incredibly Hard +10. This generally means you'll get about 2-3 attempts at a crit and gaining knowledge (When a 20 becomes a crit fail, it's still a fail).
By way of reference, KW is arguably a way better version of Monster Hunter. But there some differences.
1. As written, MH can only be used once on any given creature. However, the bonus lasts until used, where KW lasts until the Investigators next turn.
2. As written, a Ranger uses Monster Hunter when he designates his prey. This can happen soon as the Ranger finds tracks or hears the creature and designates it as prey. So MH can be used to Identify the creature before it is seen. The rules don't actually require the Ranger to see the creature to use Monster Hunter. KW can only be used with Devise a Stratagem, which requires line of sight.
Hope that helps.
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Thanks for the information. I see what you mean about Devise Stratagem and thus Known Weakness applying to a single foe. Even though I could still see table variation on whether Recall Knowledge applies to creatures in general. But RAW, there's clearly some GM leeway with Pursue a Lead. As you noted:
This subject is typically a single creature, item, or small location (such as a room or corridor), but the GM might allow a different scope for your investigation.
If the investigator came across tracks of several elephants, he logically pursues that lead of a herd of elephants. It wouldn't make sense that he was tracking just ONE of them. As further proof:
You don't need to know the identity, purpose, or nature of the subject, but you do need to be aware of its existence. For instance, finding a footprint is enough to investigate the creature that left it, and seeing a hasty sketch of an item or location can be enough to start your investigation of that subject.
Just aware of its existence. Pursue a Lead is intentionally vague. A hasty sketch of an elephant would not likely refer to a single elephant, but rather the presence of 1 or more elephants.
Not sure why you're trying to bring the Ranger into it, but Hunt Prey is very specific.
You designate a single creature as your prey and focus your attacks against that creature.
The wording for HP is clear and offers no GM leeway.
In any event, I appreciate the information, but there's no point arguing about it here. Let's let our GM handle it moving forward.
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Not sure why you're trying to bring the Ranger into it, but Hunt Prey is very specific.
You designate a single creature as your prey and focus your attacks against that creature.The wording for HP is clear and offers no GM leeway.
Because a Ranger can use Hunt Prey based on hearing the creature. If it's more than one creature making noise, you don't know which specific creature it is.
If the investigator came across tracks of several elephants, he logically pursues that lead of a herd of elephants. It wouldn't make sense that he was tracking just ONE of them. As further proof:
Investigators don't "track" creatures. Even if you interpret the rules as allowing you to Pursue a Lead on all creatures of the same type at once, DaS still requires you target an individual. You don't roll a general Devise and apply it to any creature in that group. You have to pick a target. Ergo, KW only applies to that target. You don't attack the herd/group, you attack individuals, so you can't get a free DaS against a herd/group.
Another way to think about this is what if you PaL against an approaching army? You hear them off in the distance. Does the Investigator get Fee DaS against every single solder?
In any event, I appreciate the information, but there's no point arguing about it here. Let's let our GM handle it moving forward.
I'm not arguing about it. Just providing an explanation for how the rules work based on my understanding. Given the newness of the game, its incumbent upon players and GMs to work together to understand how things work. I suspect many of these game will have players with more PF2 experience than GMs.
I've posted a hypothetical question in the rules forums, let's see what other players/GMs think.
Looking over Pursue a lead...not sure it could even been used.
First line is..."You spend 1 minute examining the details of one potential clue, designating the subject related to that clue as the target of your active investigation"
You did not have a minute before combat, you only had a round before the devils were on you.
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IMO it looks like devise strategy and known weaknesses are individually creature specific as well. So it would not transfer to the remaining Sea Devils
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Fair enough. Since we weren't in rounds originally, I wasn't sure how long we had when I first posted. So if he wasn't Pursuing a Lead, the Devise would have been 1 action, instead of a free action. Given that, I can simply give up the extra Stride action used at the end of my last round. I believe everything else would've been the same.
Great scene from a great movie! And yes, that's probably how Paizo envisioned it.
@Azu, 1) I like the spreadsheet/character sheet set up. 2) Lin to sea devils
Yes, Nahansa is the elder and Jekka is still translating
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Thanks. And one more question, if you don't mind...
"Sounds like multiple creatures congregating. Snarls and growls can be heard."
As if on cure, an echoing metallic clang rumbles through the nearby rainforest. As waves of fleeing birds take flight from the canopy, it’s easy to see that whatever is causing the sound is making its way to the coast—right toward Kihirat.
Just to be clear, do we believe that THESE are the creatures that were making the odd noises in the church? I think so, but just wanna make sure I'm understanding things correctly.
Thanks. And one more question, if you don't mind...
Just to be clear, do we believe that THESE are the creatures that were making the odd noises in the church? I think so, but just wanna make sure I'm understanding things correctly."Sounds like multiple creatures congregating. Snarls and growls can be heard."
As if on cure, an echoing metallic clang rumbles through the nearby rainforest. As waves of fleeing birds take flight from the canopy, it’s easy to see that whatever is causing the sound is making its way to the coast—right toward Kihirat.
It is fair to say, it could be some of the creatures that are causing the noise. but potentially more.
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@GM -- If Azu is allowed to do his Hunt Prey action prior to initiative, can the rest of us use the same time to draw weapons (or do other 1-action buffs)?
Personally, I didn't think PCs are allowed free actions once the GM puts players into Initiative. So just wanted to know if you're allowing this.
Not allowing any pre-buffs or anything that cost actions before initiative this time around. The combat before hand was an exception and not the norm.
Azu, for your stats, AC for these creatures were 20 and each had 54 HP.
That's on me. I thought you did.