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Not to worry. Even with no income from her career, Krizta is WAY ahead of Landolf in getting her career trappings.
When is it?
The year 2512
Key Dates so far:
Mitterfruhl - Spring Equinox is the day between the second and third months (Jahrdrung and Pflugzeit) and was the beginning of the Schaffenfest
6th day of Pflugzeit the festival ends
10th day of Pflugzeit you flee Bogenhafen
17th day of Pflugzeit you arrive in Weissbruck
These dates may not line up with what's been said before but as of now the above dates are correct.
“ With the discount you can get the mail shirt altered to fit for 8 Shillings plus the leftover chainmail, or 18 Shillings if you want to keep the leftover mail yourself. Or you can get the fitting plus the chausses for 36 Shillings (1 GC and 16 Shillings)”
Going to need to take 3 shillings out of the company funds for this. Any objections?
No objections to Valghaz pulling from party funds for his armor. I will point out that I'm unsure whether to be more amazed that he keeps trying to roll Fellowship tests or that it keeps working. If only your Intimidates rolled like your Fellowship tests.
*
As for the wool deal, I'm thinking that we should attempt a Haggle test against this merchant. Ruprecht is our best Haggle person likely to be present. Landolf can't assist but Yvonne should be able to.
If the check goes poorly, we can just choose not to sell it to this guy. If we get a zero SL result I think I'm still OK with taking his first offer.
I'll also suggest that we should create a separate party fund to track trading good moneys. I don't mind tracking that one as well.
I’m a believer in that characters don’t know their stats. Why not roll charm? As a player I might know that chances are low, but Valghaz doesn’t know that. He thinks that he is likable, especially as he keeps passing. It’s also why I want to invest in charm so badly. The luck can’t keep up forever, so I’d like his stats to reflect the character he has turned into.
It seems like it won't be long before the Thorns set to talking to tge Sigmarites about the abduction as a group. If anyone has an objection to us telling our side of the Bogenhafen story & asking the Church for help with our status in that city, say something.
Okay you guys I think I finally have a handle on the character... so sorry it took me a while to get my mind around it.
I wrote the background and answered the 10 questions, and spent all the XP I could.
If there are any other corrections or notes (or ideas, or questions) anyone has, feel free to let me know.
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Haven't looked at the crunch, but the background is great
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Hi All - been sick last couple of days but getting better so hope to get posts up later today
Take care! Things are slower anyway on week ends!
Yup! Take care of of yourself. Hope you feel better soon
A question about past, non completed careers: can you still spend XP on abilities score, skills and talents from past career, even if they aren't covered by your current career?
And if so, at which cost? (double Xp cost?)
let's say, for example, than Adelaida would like to rise her Ballistic skill. Her last career as a soldier allowed her to get +10 maximum on this ability, and she already got 4 increases.
Can she buy the 6 increases left?
I had to double check this before I answered, but I think I have it right:
First, there isn't a limit on how many Characteristics or Skills you can purchase from your current Career tier. So Adelaida wasn't ever limited to +10 on anything in her Soldier career. It can get super expensive, but she could have purchased 100 advances in Melee (Basic) and there wouldn't be a rules problem with doing so. See page 47 at the bottom of both columns for relevant rules text.
Next, see page 48 at the top left sidebar. If you want to advance Skills or Characteristics outside of your current Career, it costs double the normal amount of xp to do so. I don't see anything about a limit for this either except for the cost issue.
It's worth taking a moment out to talk about Talents since the same sidebar addresses that. Talents are different. Under normal circumstances, you simply can't purchase Talents outside of your current career Tier. (See page 48 as well, but the first non-sidebar text) This is why Landolf has been sitting for so long in his current Noble (Scion) Career tier: I wanted to get as much Luck as I could, and I wouldn't be able to buy it from the second tier of the Noble career.
I'm not seeing anything in the rulebook that directly addresses the issue of whether you can advance Characteristics or Skills from a prior Career at the normal, non-doubled rate. So, at the moment it is an assumption on my part. The game only talks about 'your Career', not 'your current or any prior Careers'. My assumption has always been that only your current Career matters for advancement purposes.
I don't think there is any difference between completed prior Careers and non-completed prior Careers for this purpose: only for the cost of changing to the new Career.
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There are exceptions, all related to the Downtime subsystem. The Training Endeavour allows advancement in a non-Career Characteristic or Skill at the normal xp rate at the cost of a Downtime Endeavour and some money. If the skill in question is rare or unusual, it could possibly require finding a trainer as well. See page 199.
Starting on the same page, Unusual Learning Downtime Endeavour gives the only way to learn a Talent outside of your current Career tier. The costs of doing so aren't terribly crazy, but the risks are insane. It requires a Hard (-20) Characteristic test and if the test is failed the spent xp and money are entirely lost. The only consolation prize is a +10 cumulative modifier if you want to try the money & xp pit again after a failure.
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I'm guessing the question isn't totally theoretical. If you are just wanting to get the Ballistic Skill advances you mentioned above, Aubster said we may have a Downtime segment coming up before too long. It would just be a matter of making sure you saved some xp & money for it as well as not losing all of your Downtime Endeavours somehow.
If you wanted to get anything else from your prior Soldier career, it could get trickier than that.
Thanks for your answer!
And what about the random Talents coming from the character's creation? I understand them as not linked to any Career, not even your fist one, but more something you either were born with or learnt from your education and/or life before starting a career.
For example, I had Sturdy I as a Random talent, at which cost can I advance it to Sturdy II?
I'm pretty sure that the Species Talents don't give you access to advancing the same Talents at all. You just get them without worrying about where they came from. Without looking, I'm almost certain that the book doesn't say that.
The issue is how to get more stuff. Nothing anywhere says you can get Talents by spending xp except from your current Career tier and from Unusual Learning.
So I'd say that your options to get Sturdy II would be to enter a Career tier that had Sturdy as a Talent option or from Unusual Learning. Or just get more Strength & Toughness if the expanded Encumbrance is what you are after.
Huh. Interesting. Did not know that. Always something new to learn.
We're being chatty this morning!
Since we're in Weissbruck & considering a rescue mission, it's probably worth talking about equipment some more. We just had a potentially very nasty encounter with ranged weapons and the single crossbow isn't a great solution.
Here is what I'm looking at:
* one or possibly two bows. Which ones would depend on a lot of factors, including availability.
* shields for those that would consider using them
* head armor of some sort for everyone
Some notes:
Head armor: Landolf's choice for this would be a Leather Skullcap based on two factors. They are light (zero Encumbrance) and also they don't penalize Perception Tests. They barely protect the head at all with only 1 AP and the Partial quality, so the main rationale to use one would be critical prevention (see the end of page 299).
Shields are a weird topic. Unless a character is Ambidextrous II, they take a penalty to use Melee (basic) with shields. Melee (parry) can also be used defensively with shields without penalty regardless. The base penalty is -2 SL, so you would lose more Melee contests if you defend with a shield. (But shields also have Defensive, so it's really more like -1 SL total)
Shields give two important benefits though. They grant additional armor if you use them to defend. Also, shields allow characters to Oppose ranged attacks against them which isn't normally possible. See the rules text for the Shield quality (page 298).
Sidenote: ranged attacks can also be Opposed with Dodge if the range is Point Blank, but this doesn't come up much.
Landolf wouldn't get any Qualities from a Shield since he doesn't have any Melee (basic) advances. They'd become a consideration when he gets Melee (parry) later, though.
I would like a bow at some point, but not a shield... incompatible desires. :)
My ballistic skill isn't great right now, but thinking of switching into something that has it later so I can raise it... maybe a stint as a scout next... if I can work it into the story, of course... following my dad's career, that sort of thing.
Some good points all around. I think that having some sort of armor is always worth it. Well, unless you're playing a slayer. Or witch elf, I guess.
As for bows? Yeah. Having some ranged weapons seems like it's something we should all have. Would like to someday make a character built around shooting. It just seems really useful for a group to have a marksman.
I'm actually not a fan of shields. Because as you point out, using a shield makes it much less likely to land a hit. I'd rather do more damage to end the fight, than take less damage to lose it slower.
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Okay you guys I think I finally have a handle on the character... so sorry it took me a while to get my mind around it.
I wrote the background and answered the 10 questions, and spent all the XP I could.
If there are any other corrections or notes (or ideas, or questions) anyone has, feel free to let me know.
Great stuff!
Some good points all around. I think that having some sort of armor is always worth it. Well, unless you're playing a slayer. Or witch elf, I guess.
As for bows? Yeah. Having some ranged weapons seems like it's something we should all have. Would like to someday make a character built around shooting. It just seems really useful for a group to have a marksman.
I'm actually not a fan of shields. Because as you point out, using a shield makes it much less likely to land a hit. I'd rather do more damage to end the fight, than take less damage to lose it slower.
I believe the shield only penalizes your efforts to use the shield for either attack or defense. I'm using the Ambidextrous Talent text for that. Any attacks or defense with the main hand weapon wouldn't be penalized.
Not stating that in disagreement, but just to clarify my understanding of how it works.
Cut this from the Cubicle 7 Website
There’s a reason Humans — in the real world, that is — have used shields since before written records, all the way until… well… now. Shields just make sense: someone is swinging or shooting something pointy at you, so put a big piece of wood or metal in the way! The same is true of shields in WFRP — especially in the latest edition, where they’ve been given all sorts of bells and whistles that shake up the regular push and thrust of combat!
Shields bring with them a lot of mechanical benefits, so let’s take a look at each one, and then address the individual kinds of shields.
All three shields are in the Basic weapon group — so use Melee (Basic) as their attacking or defending Skill — and have the following three Weapon Qualities: Shield, Defensive, and Undamaging.
Defensive is nice and straight forward: when you are wielding the weapon, you gain +1 SL to the Melee Test when defending. This even works if you are defending with a weapon in your other hand as you manoeuvre your shield into the path of any incoming weapons! When combined with the fact you’re likely to have a relatively high Melee (Basic) Skill, you should have a good chance of entirely parrying many incoming attacks (or at least reducing the difference in the SL). The Defensive Quality also allows shields to be used with Melee (Parry), which forgoes the –20 penalty you’d receive for using Melee (Basic) in an off-hand (if you don’t have Ambidextrous).
Undamaging isn’t the best, but given it’s a shield and you’re unlikely to be attacking with it unless you happen to have the Dual Wielder Talent, this shouldn’t sour you too much. This quality means all AP are doubled against attacks from shields, and said attacks don’t deal a minimum of 1 Damage.
Shield (Rating) is where things really shine — when using the shield to defend, you count as having Rating APs on all locations. This can be used to deflect Critical Wounds, and at Rating 2+ (so, a normal and large shield) you can even defend against ranged attacks! This is a game changer!
So, let’s look at the individual shields. Our Shield (Buckler) is the cheapest option — at 18/2, so just shy of a crown — and gives Shield 1. Alongside Defensive, this is already a sound tactical choice: you get to use the better of either Melee (Basic) at –20, or Melee (Parry), whilst getting a +1 SL on all defense Tests, and +1 AP to all Hit Locations when defending with the shield. Even if your opponent gets through, their attack will be severely hampered by this impressive defence!
Next, we have the Shield and Shield (Large), which are 2GC with Shield 2 and 3GC with Shield 3 respectively. Both carry the same tactical advantages as the Buckler, but with the added benefit of protecting against ranged attacks in line-of-sight — the only protection available against such attacks. Whilst they’re certainly expensive — and therefore outside of the reach of many adventurers — they would be my absolute first purchase.
In fact, it’s worth stating that I would purchase a Shield well before any armour pieces. Why? Well, because even though a Shield costs 2GC, a full suit of even Leather — which would only grant 1 AP on all locations, rather than 2 AP with +1 SL to defend — costs 1GC 14/–. For only 6/– more, you’re getting double, and then some, the value!
But it’s not all mechanics and mathematics. This is a roleplaying game, after all — you’re going to need to chat to some non-player characters before long, and I doubt the dandy will take too kindly to some raggedy hedge knight hefting around a massive shield. No, unfortunately, shields are not in fashion with the rakes and rapscallions of the Empire — though bucklers still get plenty of use by the middle class — which will mean you may have lost the war (for your honour) even before you’ve deflected a blow. Furthermore, shields are a practical symbol of war — you can’t hide them, you can’t side-step them. If you walk into a village carrying a shield, folks are going to know what you’re looking for and are used to dealing with trouble. Is that the kind of attention you want to bring?
What's an umgi? Would my character know that?
Nope, not at all. It's Khazalid, aka: dwarven. I tend to put into into Valghaz' speech. Generally...
* Dawi: Dwarfs
* Umgi: Human (comes from the word Umgak, meaning 'shoddy')
* Elgi: Elf (comes from the word Elgram, meaning 'weak' or 'thin')
* Urk: Orcs and Goblins (literally means 'enemy')
* Thaggoraki (or just raki, comes from thagi, meaning 'murderous traitor')
It's great that this setting has so much of the language worked out. :)
"Although modern Khazalid is seldom spoken by Humans, an archaic form is known in the Cult of Sigmar. According to a text known as the Unfinished Book, Sigmar himself knew Khazalid. It was passed down to some of the next generation, and is now widespread in the Cult."
* This is because the Empire was founded when Sigmar led the human tribes against the orcs and won a decisive battle at Blackfire Pass alongside the dwarven high king. This has cemented a long lasting alliance between the Empire and the Dwarves. With the Cult of Sigmar making this friendship into something religious.
"Strictures
Obey your orders.[2a]
Aid Dwarf-folk.[2a]
Work to promote the unity of the Empire, even at the cost of individual liberty.[2a]
Bear true allegiance to His Imperial Majesty the Emperor.[2a]
Root out and destroy Greenskins, the servants of Chaos, and those who use corrupt magic, wherever they may hide.[2a]"
To say that the Cult of Sigmar has ties to the dwarfs would be an understatement. Though I've never seen the 'aid dwarf folk' really taken to any extreme in any book that I've read.
Cool. Since she doesn't know the word, I'll let it play out in gameplay. :)
Should we declare a Party Short Term Ambition of either:
* gain the assistance of the Cult of Sigmar in clearing up the Bogenhafen confusion
* solve the pharmacist kidnapping case
I've been on the side of delaying a Party Long Term Ambition, but this situation with Etelka Herzen seems like it might have legs. We can always change the Ambition later if we're wrong. So something like:
* eliminate the cultist threat in the Empire (Teugen & Etelka ring)
On the short-term ambition, Krizta wants to solve the kidnapping, which will probably make the Sigmarians happier and better inclined to help you with the other things anyway, so a 2-for-1 ambition?
Long term, I'm not sure she cares about that goal right now, just not knowing what the threat is, but she thinks that Sigmar sent her to you guys, so if that is the goal, she'll go along with it, (unless Sigmar tells her specifically to go another way).
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Should we declare a Party Short Term Ambition of either:
* gain the assistance of the Cult of Sigmar in clearing up the Bogenhafen confusion
* solve the pharmacist kidnapping caseI've been on the side of delaying a Party Long Term Ambition, but this situation with Etelka Herzen seems like it might have legs. We can always change the Ambition later if we're wrong. So something like:
* eliminate the cultist threat in the Empire (Teugen & Etelka ring)
The long term ambition is spot on and ties directly into the campaign!
Short term can be solve the kidnapping case (by which I mean find out who wanted her disappeared and why). The Bogenhafen confusion is not an issue that can be solved in the equivalent of 2-3 live sessions.
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On the short-term ambition, Krizta wants to solve the kidnapping, which will probably make the Sigmarians happier and better inclined to help you with the other things anyway, so a 2-for-1 ambition?
Long term, I'm not sure she cares about that goal right now, just not knowing what the threat is, but she thinks that Sigmar sent her to you guys, so if that is the goal, she'll go along with it, (unless Sigmar tells her specifically to go another way).
Even after saying "Krizta should be filled in now" I guess we've been pretty oblique on that point. My assumption is that we told all or almost all of the following to Father Herr, so it's probably fair for Krizta to know it now too.
In our Bogenhafen arc, the big bad guy was a guy named Teugen (I forget his given name). He'd been known to have been out of town for a while and became very popular when he came back to town. I'm fairly sure he was a merchant lord in Bogenhafen and not a noble.
He formed a group called Ordo Septenarius within the merchants of Bogenhafen that was very secretive and from the perspective of most of the members was doing a lot of good in the city. What most of even Ordo Septenarius didn't know was that Teugen was a chaos worshipper and was building a temple to the Ruinous Powers in the city. We stumbled into the original temple and defeated the daemon there, which led to them scrapping that location. By the time we made it back with the Witch Hunter Captain Gellor, the remains of the temple were gone. Enough hints remained that Gellor believed our story and tasked us with following up on our leads.
The investigation was a bit of a zoo, but eventually we tracked down enough information to follow Teugen to his hideout in a docks warehouse. By this time the city was teetering on the edge of falling into Chaos completely - a result of a ritual that Teugen was performing. In the process of reaching him, his more loyal followers murdered our contact inside Ordo Septenarius and pinned the murder on us. They also somehow made a good look-alike for Landolf and set part of the city on fire, pinning the blame on my character.
We evaded the mobs and watch chasing us and made it to the ritual site in time. Only a few members of Ordo Septenarius were still in with Teugen's plans and even those seemed horrified by what was going on. A lot of them are dead now by their own hands or that of Chaos forces. We defeated Teugen and backed his daemon-possessed guy into a bad situation before some hugely evil eye-presence-thing showed up and obliterated all the bad guy remnants in the warehouse. We have no evidence of our heroism. So we got out of Bogenhafen before anyone could see us and were floating downriver back to Altdorf when we met Krizta.
Some important personalities in Bogenhafen that are probably still alive:
* Witch Hunter Captain Gellor - he seemed a decent sort for a Witch Hunter(*) and may be willing to listen to our story. He also owes us money for our efforts in hunting Teugen's cult down.
* Heinrich Steinhager - a not-very-decent sort, but a merchant lord whose brother was involved in Ordo Septenarius. He more than suggested to us that if we could help him move his brother out of the way he'd repay us. We didn't directly take up his offer, but his brother was one of the Ordo Septenarius loyalists and very probably met a bad end.
* Freidrich Maginarius - this guy is very dead but deserves an honorable mention. He was an Ordo Septenarius member but turned the moment he figured out that his group was going very bad on him. Despite high risk to himself, he went back to meet with them so he could find the meeting site for Teugen's ritual. It is his murder that we got framed for.
* Jochen Haagen - one of the few merchant lords that wasn't invited to Ordo Septenarius, which probably speaks well of him. Landolf was trying to seal a business deal with him when the badness started going down. Reclaiming the party reputation in the city may allow him to revive that effort. Probably not of much interest to Krizta, but Landolf will bring him up.
Important name for the campaign going forward:
* Etelka Herzen - we know very little about her, but Freidrich gave us a letter he found in Teugen's office and I believe that we still have the letter. It highly implies that Etelka is also involved with the Ruinous Powers and that both of them are students of a greater, unnamed threat.
Sidenote: our first adventure in this campaign back in Ubersreik also saw us framed for a murder we didn't commit. So Landolf at least is taking being framed again quite personally. The others haven't emphasized it, but it may well be true of their characters as well.
All of this would be very alarming to a Sigmarite, and Krizta would likely be very interested in our story. She's probably less interested in our efforts to clear our names in Bogenhafen except that doing so involves getting to the truth of the matter.
I agree with both short and long term party Ambitions!!!
Darn, realized I forgot to spend our latest xp haul!
I'm not sure what the notations in the "company funds" update mean... sorry. Can you clarify, or point me to a page in the manual?
Is that the money from selling the loot we got, or...?
The different funds aren't a rulebook thing at all. The company fund is something the party came up with a while ago to help support each other. Especially with Landolf's noble career, the party has VERY different personal incomes.
The shipping fund is supposed to be the money we got from selling the wool. I'm putting in a different fund because at least in theory we'll be buying stuff to sell with it for our nascent shipping business.
I imagine we can probably take some of the profits for the Company fund when we start actually earning profits.
Each character is keeping a personal fund as well, but most of our money in and out is going through the Company fund these days.
I meant how does the notation work. I don't know what "19g 10/3" means. Assuming that 19g means gold, but what does 10/3, or 10/- mean?
And what just happened to the loot... does that get instantly converted to gold, and if not, do we have a master list somewhere?
Ah. That one is from the books. 10g 9/3 is ten gold, 9 silver & 3 brass. If zero brass are in an amount you write 9/-instead of 9/0.
1 gold = 20 silver
1 silver = 12 bronze
See the Consumer Guide in the Rulebook at page 288 for more.
Not that Landolf can write.
Ah, thanks. :)
""Or maybe you want training?"
She will willingly train anyone who wants to become an Apothecary, and Characters may enter those careers for 100 fewer XP than it would typically cost."
Could this allow training heal at the rate of a profession skill? I have 1 point in it right now, having paid for it out of profession, and planned to put my skill points in once Valghaz does his career change (as heal is something squires have access to). But I think that it would make more sense for him to train it up at this point, under her tutelage, than to drop the experience into it once he has a new career.
Apothecary is a neat career, but I don't think it fits what Landolf is trying to do at all. Yvonne was a closer call but I still think I'll pass on it.
Healing Draughts are normally 10 silver each, so we'd save a small amount by taking her offer. We could probably consider buying multiple Healing Draughts if Elvyra has them on hand...maybe one for each person. There are some more expensive potions we might be interested in, but the applications for most of those aren't as obvious. A Healing Poultice at 12 silver would be the closest thing (prevents infections to a critical injury).
We were talking earlier about gearing up a bit in response to our poor ability to deal with that flying mutant. Landolf could probably use:
* Bow (4g), or possibly something heavier if it is available in Weissbruck but we start running into scarcity issues.
* Arrows (5/-) for a quiver of 12
* Leather Skullcap (8/-)
If we're going to make larger purchases on the bows especially, we should probably make a Haggle check to try to lower the price. I think Adelaida/Ruprecht are our best at that. Yvonne may be able to assist.
Double checking my understanding of Odger's proposed deal.
We ship him & his assistants to Altdorf along with his 30 existing barrels. We get 10g for that.
Additionally, Odger is wanting to buy another 20 barrels at 1.5g each but he can only do that if we go in on the deal with him, basically buying half of the 20 barrels so we'd own 10 or something like that.
He expects to sell the barrels in Altdorf for 2g each, for half a gold profit on each barrel. If we partner with him & everything works out as described, we'll pay 15g and get back 20g in wine, plus 10g on the shipping.
I'm assuming the Lucky Lady can haul all of that.
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While we're at it, we should probably check about food supplies for our journeys and such. Are we handwaving the expenses for that, or would we need to stock up on food?
Double checking my understanding of Odger's proposed deal.
We ship him & his assistants to Altdorf along with his 30 existing barrels. We get 10g for that.
Additionally, Odger is wanting to buy another 20 barrels at 1.5g each but he can only do that if we go in on the deal with him, basically buying half of the 20 barrels so we'd own 10 or something like that.
He expects to sell the barrels in Altdorf for 2g each, for half a gold profit on each barrel. If we partner with him & everything works out as described, we'll pay 15g and get back 20g in wine, plus 10g on the shipping.
I'm assuming the Lucky Lady can haul all of that.
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While we're at it, we should probably check about food supplies for our journeys and such. Are we handwaving the expenses for that, or would we need to stock up on food?
That’s indeed the proposal.
The barge can take 50 barrels but that’ll fill her up.
To buy groceries It’d be 10 pennies a day per person so with 3 passengers that’s 90 a day. You probably want to buy once a week so that’s 630 pennies per week or 2 crowns, 12 shillings and 6 pennies. Landolf also needs to make sure that he’s paying Yvonne.
There are other expenses that Josef will talk to you all about at dinner.
About Yvonne's wages: this is another place where it seems like the economy of the game simply won't work. I was thinking that particular issue would be taken care of in the same sense as normal expenses relate to income amounts. The income is assumed to be profit on top of any expenses.
It might be fair to say that Landolf hasn't been working for a while (I don't think he's ever made an Income amount as either of his careers) but that Yvonne is and she needs to be paid when he isn't earning income but she is.
But that would bankrupt Landolf fast.
Right now, Yvonne is at Silver 3 while Landolf is at Gold 1. An average income for her would be 16/10, consuming almost all of Landolf's wages if he was to pay her while he was earning income himself.
If Landolf only pays her when he isn't earning income, she'll chew through his reserves in no time at all. Right now Landolf's personal fund is 19/2. If she rolled well on Income, he couldn't even pay her for one week.
It might be fair to say that part of the problem is that Landolf is only in the first tier of his career while Yvonne is in the second tier of her career. She could be making one third the income she is due right now. But if Landolf was in the Noble career instead of Scion, he'd be needing four servants to match his trappings requirements at some point. Assuming that those servants are Servant tier 2 (not a great assumption but it isn't crazy) the problem actually gets worse. Four Servants would earn an average of 66/- a week, more than the Noble's income.
It isn't even just a Noble problem. Lots of careers eventually hit a point where they are expected to have underlings. Anyone in a career with underling trappings that stops earning income for a few weeks to go adventuring would be ruined quickly.
So I wasn't sure what to do about that issue other than ignoring it altogether. I guess assuming that Landolf was paying Yvonne somehow with money he had on hand that wasn't otherwise represented in the game. Correspondingly, I wasn't expecting the party to get any income from Yvonne's career either. At best if she ever earned a chunk of career income, it would be for her personal use only.
Any thoughts?
About Yvonne's wages: this is another place where it seems like the economy of the game simply won't work. I was thinking that particular issue would be taken care of in the same sense as normal expenses relate to income amounts. The income is assumed to be profit on top of any expenses.
It might be fair to say that Landolf hasn't been working for a while (I don't think he's ever made an Income amount as either of his careers) but that Yvonne is and she needs to be paid when he isn't earning income but she is.
But that would bankrupt Landolf fast.
Right now, Yvonne is at Silver 3 while Landolf is at Gold 1. An average income for her would be 16/10, consuming almost all of Landolf's wages if he was to pay her while he was earning income himself.
If Landolf only pays her when he isn't earning income, she'll chew through his reserves in no time at all. Right now Landolf's personal fund is 19/2. If she rolled well on Income, he couldn't even pay her for one week.
It might be fair to say that part of the problem is that Landolf is only in the first tier of his career while Yvonne is in the second tier of her career. She could be making one third the income she is due right now. But if Landolf was in the Noble career instead of Scion, he'd be needing four servants to match his trappings requirements at some point. Assuming that those servants are Servant tier 2 (not a great assumption but it isn't crazy) the problem actually gets worse. Four Servants would earn an average of 66/- a week, more than the Noble's income.
It isn't even just a Noble problem. Lots of careers eventually hit a point where they are expected to have underlings. Anyone in a career with underling trappings that stops earning income for a few weeks to go adventuring would be ruined quickly.
So I wasn't sure what to do about that issue other than ignoring it altogether. I guess assuming that Landolf was paying Yvonne somehow with money he had on hand that wasn't otherwise represented in the game. Correspondingly, I...
I agree that the economics don't make any sense. I remembered that we had this exact conversation when the idea of a servant came up and we decided then it didn't make sense to worry about a salary for her. Not that I won't bring it up again in a few months when I forget about this conversation. :)
Yay! We're not currently wanted criminals! (sort of)
Does anyone have an opinion on whether we should purchase a share of Odger's wine barrels? Foregoing the deal allows us to make some profit without taking any risk not inherent in travel on the Bogen. If we believe the halfling is correct about the valuation of his cargo, though, we could make some extra money. It'd help cover the food expenses we'll be incurring at least, with some risk attached if the barrel sale price is bad or something else happens.
Is everyone OK with the purchases I mentioned above for Landolf as well? (bow, arrows & leather skullcap)
I think we have that issue, potential shopping and a dinner with Josef left to occupy us in Wissenburg.
I'm fine with the group buying a share of the cargo, and with whatever you want to buy.
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Well, a girl HAS to go on a shopping spree once in a while. ^^
Ha ha. Krizta has zero money, so the bloody clothes were her shopping spree, but if she gets some money from the reward they gave us, she might buy some things and start thinking about a new career path.
(Also, at this level of flagellant she should automatically get a sling, so if Sigmar could provide that at some point, we could wait on a bow till later.)
In fact, here are all the things that are on her trappings list just from being a human or from her career:
Backpack
Blanket
Cloak
Pouch
Rations (1 day)
Tinderbox
Placard
Religious Symbol
Sling
... hoping she doesn't have to buy those things, but that Sigmar will provide. She already picked up clothing and a dagger, which were both formerly on that list, and the rations might be moot because she has been getting free food regularly... but perhaps the backpack and sling would be good ideas to come next, so she can carry everything, and have a ranged weapon?
... I mean, as Sigmar wills, of course. :)
I think those are your starting equipment (trappings) from being a good Flagellant, ready to die for our god.
The last three are, the other ones are from being human I believe... but I started out with just a robe and a flail, so we're working our way up from there. :)
Yay! We're not currently wanted criminals! (sort of)
Does anyone have an opinion on whether we should purchase a share of Odger's wine barrels? Foregoing the deal allows us to make some profit without taking any risk not inherent in travel on the Bogen. If we believe the halfling is correct about the valuation of his cargo, though, we could make some extra money. It'd help cover the food expenses we'll be incurring at least, with some risk attached if the barrel sale price is bad or something else happens.
Is everyone OK with the purchases I mentioned above for Landolf as well? (bow, arrows & leather skullcap)
I think we have that issue, potential shopping and a dinner with Josef left to occupy us in Wissenburg.
I'm alright with the purchases for Landolf. I mean, how can I complain when my career path will eventually require plate armor + helm? :P (Fortunately quite far off, but still).
As for the sale of goods, I don't have a strong opinion either way. It's pretty much a roll of the dice to see whether it bites us in the arse. If we can't make a decision, then I say no. Simply because everyone knows that you can't trust halflings. Because they're always so happy and are smiling. That must meant that they are up to something.
Ha ha. Krizta has zero money, so the bloody clothes were her shopping spree, but if she gets some money from the reward they gave us, she might buy some things and start thinking about a new career path.
(Also, at this level of flagellant she should automatically get a sling, so if Sigmar could provide that at some point, we could wait on a bow till later.)
In fact, here are all the things that are on her trappings list just from being a human or from her career:
Backpack
Blanket
Cloak
Pouch
Rations (1 day)
Tinderbox
Placard
Religious Symbol
Sling... hoping she doesn't have to buy those things, but that Sigmar will provide. She already picked up clothing and a dagger, which were both formerly on that list, and the rations might be moot because she has been getting free food regularly... but perhaps the backpack and sling would be good ideas to come next, so she can carry everything, and have a ranged weapon?
... I mean, as Sigmar wills, of course. :)
To my best understanding, Krizta should have started with all of the Trappings from her Class:
Cloak, Clothing, Dagger, Pouch, Backpack containing Tinderbox,
Blanket, Rations (1 day)
and the first Tier of her starting career:
Flail, Tattered Robes
Everything else she has to acquire somehow. The Placard, Religious Symbol & Sling she'll need to pick up in gameplay. Most of that shouldn't be very hard. If Krizta asks nicely, she might even be able to get help with the Religious Symbol from the temple in Weissbruck.
In prior editions, I understand that Trappings were something you needed to complete a career. Here they aren't, but you do need the trappings in order to be taken seriously as a member of your Career & level.
For example, Landolf started as a Seaman (Landsman) and had not a ton more in initial trappings than Krizta did...maybe less actually. Then he moved into the Scion career. Aubster was nice enough to give Landolf his Courtly Garb and the Foil he used for a while. He eventually found his Servant 'trapping'. He still doesn't have the jewelry he needs to be convincing as a Scion. It's been a hard argument to ask for Landolf to soak up that much of the group's funds. There's no realistic possibility of him having the extra 3-4 Household Servants, Quality Courtly Garb, Riding Horse or Coach & 50g worth of jewelry he needs to be taken seriously as a Noble when he first enters that career, which won't be that much further off.
He'll need to work on it.
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Aubster, since I'm talking about Landolf's jewelry needs, how should I handle the 3d10g worth of jewelry part? It's weird to have a rolled amount when Landolf isn't starting out as a member of the Scion class. We've sort of ignored the fact that he hasn't had the jewelry so far, but that probably shouldn't last.
It looks like everyone is fine with Landolf's purchases. Can Adelaida or Ruprecht help with a Haggle check, probably in the morning? I imagine that Yvonne can give a +1 SL assist.