Quick note on rolls: I'll be rolling inits, and each player rolls their own rolls.
Now: to dive into the IC posts!
@Kolthis: Can you get both AoO's off in one standard action?
I gotta ask, is Myre alive? I think Mihaela might have one-shot our bad guy and I don't want to 'attack' a corpse
I think he might be dead. I'll confirm first thing tomorrow.
Hey DMLC, sorry didn't see your post, as a result of my work audit lasting until the late hours of today.
I get two Attacks of Opportunities a round, and 10ft reach for those attacks, thanks to Combat Reflexes, don't think a surprise round changes that.
I think he might be dead. I'll confirm first thing tomorrow.
I'll hold off on my post until we know if he's dead or not, since it'll effect what I can do.
A 9th level necromancer with a 15 Con would have ~51 hp. He just took 54.
Mihaela now gets an attack on him at +6 to hit (or +7 to +12 if she burns another point of Inspiration) Then, unless he has fire resistance or Evasion, he's probably going to eat another ~20 more points of damage on Walter's initiative. (Even if he can make two DC 18 Reflex saves, he'll still take around 10.) And in the wildly unlikely event he survives all that? He can't cast, he doesn't have his staff, and he's threatened.
We planned well and got a surprise round, and then he rolled crap on initiative, and then our melee fighter got a heavy damage crit. It happens.
Well done, Mihaela!
So: what's becoming readily apparent to me is that you guys are not only a very effective team IC, but also sufficiently seasoned and smart OOC to steamroll through the encounters as currently written.
Which leads me to ask: do you guys want me to leave the module as is, and allow you to possibly get through each encounter in similar fine fashion (which is fine - there's no reason sound tactics and careful application of your abilities shouldn't garner you clean successes), or would you like to me to up the challenge rating of what lies down the road so as to force you guys against the ropes now and again?
1) Six of us.
2) Experienced players.
3) All the PCs are pretty solid builds. I think Walter may be the least optimized, and he's still a very respectable glass cannon. People will usually make Knowledge and Perception checks, and the melee fighters can dish out a crapton of damage really fast.
Upping CRs is a delicate and potentially deadly art. That said, sometimes fairly modest changes can have big results. For instance in this case, an Alarm spell on the front door, or a couple of minions keeping watch, would have negated the element of surprise.* We would still have seen off the zombies pretty quickly, but then we'd be facing a caster with a couple of rounds of warning.
So I'd say, do make it a bit harder, but that doesn't necessarily mean cranking up the CR (though that's certainly an option). Watchful foes, alarms, simple traps, things like that can really make a difference.
*A watchdog. A dead zombie watchdog. It's hard to spot because it doesn't breathe or move. But when a stranger shows up, it lurches forward, dribbling bits of decaying flesh, dead lungs wheezing as it tries to howl. Huh... Huh... Aaaaooouugh...
-- Oh, man, if this guy had gotten off a Black Tentacles? I hate that frickin' spell. He could have tagged three, maybe four PCs with it -- certainly including at least one of the casters. Then that's one or two PCs out for the rest of the combat.
I mean, we could still have taken him, because action economy. But if he had warning and a couple of rounds to cast? It would have been a very different combat.
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I don't know if I'd call Maritine optimized - I've never played an investigator before, so there's still some growing pains there - but I agree that CR adjustment is difficult and sometimes messy, so if you do want to make things harder, I think I agree with Walter.
That being said? I'm having Fun with this module and you guys, and we've got a good flow going - I'm not saying no to changes, just want to make it clear I'm having a good time.
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For further reference, Mihaela - that still only counts as one.
I'm having a blast, even though I've shot my crossbow, like, once. The RP is great, and the party's a bunch of amazing and deep characters.
That said, I should mention, risking the wrath of my fellow players, that some increase in difficulty might be welcome. After all, we can't have a horror game if we're not terrified of beasts and creatures, and only managing to defeat them after a hard battle or a flash of luck.
I'd disagree with Walter regarding the traps and alarms - that works in F2F, but you only put a door in a game as a PbP GM if you're off for a week's holiday. Watchful foes might work, but with the insane amount of Stealth and Invisibilty we have it'd be verging on the improbable. And hiding from horrors is another common trope that I like.
@GMLC - Wicked tends to slap the advanced template on the minions, since we're a little too powerful in CotCT, that might work, as well as other templates that would be reasonable. Other option might be even more enemies of lower skill, I suppose?
If you're comfortable increasing the difficulty, I think it would be a good idea. Particularly since, judging by this encounter, the module didn't take into account how much invisibility could mess with things. The fight would have been completely different if we hadn't walked right past the zombies and therefore denied Myre any chance to prepare.
I agree with Lys. By all means, make our foes smarter if it makes sense in the context (though they're probably expecting an attack by the sort of thing that wreaked havoc on the market, and planned accordingly — a hit squad of invisible assassins is quite understandably a curve ball to them) but without necessarily overdoing it — worse than the "door" problem is the "possibly trapped, probably alarmed door" one.
IMHO, an advanced template here and there, or a couple of levels slapped on a foe should do the trick well without (hopefully) breaking anything. Still, this game has been wonderfully stimulating and fun as it is, and even though we won all our fights handily it still felt rewarding as it was mostly the result of careful planning and preparation.
I think everyone brings up pretty good points. I am, personally, having a great time with everything going on. I wholly enjoy the roleplay and the party synergy, as well as the atmosphere of the module.
That being said - most APs, and it is likely plausible to lump in modules with them, are built for a standard party of 4 with a 15 point buy characters. We are a veteran party of 6 with a 20 point buy. There is a decent amount of difference there.
As much as I am enjoying everything, I will also say, in the least passive aggressive way possible, that as a build kind of focused on the whole combat thing, it would be nice to be up for more than a single turn of a buff :)
In another 6 person 1e game I'm in, the GM is using a modifier of 1d6+APL-3, with APL being increased by 1 for the number of people, and the result being used to make interesting encounters. At level 1, this has currently resulted in us fighting an epic goblin encounter that is CR 5, which I think is awesome.
If you, DMLC, were to use something similar, and are aiming for more difficulty to emulate the horror and awfulness abound, perhaps a modifier of 1d6+APL-2, with our APL being 6, or modification how you see fit as a DM.
Regardless of how it's done, I think increasing the difficulty and danger level would be an interesting and welcome addition to the already awesome time being had.
Well, this brings us to the key question: go on to the next problem actor now, or try for a rest? How are we on resources?
Yelena still has the majority of her spells. Depending on how everyone else is doing we could probably take down Hyve tonight, then rest before tackling Crove in the morning.
OK, well, what I'm going to do is continue to reward good thinking and planning, while also making the challenges more fun and exciting. It'll be a balancing act on my part, but that's what DMing is all about, right?
Also, you guys haven't noticed, but I have upgraded the encounters already - the zombies were brine zombies instead of regular zombies, for example, and I added two regular ghouls plus a Blink effect to the first ghast combat. You've all been so effective, however, that these upgrades didn't change anything.
I will, however, continue to calibrate ;)
Maritine still has basically all her alchemist spells/potions and can make alchemical items - tanglefoot bags and such, so we might still be good for spell slots and the like - plus we looted a bunch of useful stuff. I don't think we even really burned through too many individual skills/tricks/ect.
My guess is we move while we're all still mostly at full power, right?
Walter's down some spell slots but still has his two big spells. So, let's make a...THIRTY minute adventuring day!
Mihaela spent two 2nd level spell slots, one 1st level slot, 1 round of bane (out of 5), and a couple of daily uses of her invisibility spell-like ability.
She's still at 60 - 70% efficiency, so there's room for another encounter or two. Yelena's plan (Hyve tonight, Crove tomorrow) seems quite sensible.
@Mihaela - let's go with 3 rounds.
And it sounds like we're moving on to Keeper Hyve. Play this next one just as smart as you guys have done so far, cause I'm going to be making some... adjustments...
Moving to ooc for ease of plotting.
Only plan I've heard this far is to bluff your way inside. Is that correct? I'm going to post soon that Jarvis doesn't know of another way in.
We can try, I think Mihaela has the best bluff at the moment. I have a +7, so its not great but not terrible. But I'm all ears for other suggestions before we get to the temple.
(Maritine DOES have a few vials of alchemical fire still....just saying....)
Only plan I've heard this far is to bluff your way inside. Is that correct? I'm going to post soon that Jarvis doesn't know of another way in.
Only plan so far. But of course, a bout of plotting that may take five minutes in game may take several days of posting...
I'll add this: the "other entrance / exit" seems like a long shot but not nuts. Maybe send the Perception monkeys on a quick sweep around the perimeter and the immediate neighborhood?
-- Man, this is where I miss having a familiar. There are a bunch of advanced familiars -- the Silvanshee agathion and the imp in particular -- that are really excellent at scouting in this kind of situation. Ah, well.
Okay then, question for DMLC: can Disable Device be used on a barred door? It would be a little weird if a simple bar gave more security than an expensive lock...
@Walter: The only reference I've found to disabling barred doors with Disable Device gives it a DC of 30. So we'll run with that. Like a high quality lock, I guess.
And I'll give you guys a few more posts to hash things out. Unless you guys vote otherwise, I'm going to run with a scouting loop to find another entrance, then an attempt to Disable Device, and if that fails, a bluff at the door.
That plan is fine with me. I'm just here in case the door needs a stern breaking down. The stealth approach is definitely preferred though. Will have to prepare a little more utility in the morning when I can pray again for our last visit on this train.
I think that sequence of attempts, (search, disable, bluff, break down the door), makes for a decent plan. I do prefer the 'bluff' of us pretending to be ourselves over an attempt at pretending to be Myre.
('Who, us? We're monster-hunters hired by the mayor. He told us that you were the expert on regional lore. Can we ask you some questions?')
I think that sequence of attempts, (search, disable, bluff, break down the door), makes for a decent plan. I do prefer the 'bluff' of us pretending to be ourselves over an attempt at pretending to be Myre.
('Who, us? We're monster-hunters hired by the mayor. He told us that you were the expert on regional lore. Can we ask you some questions?')
Agreed. Here's to hoping half-truths carry a more feasible DC?
Works for me. Search, then try a stealthy disable, then try bluffing.
If we're gonna bluff, do we have anything in the toolbox to help or buff? I'm assuming since I have the highest modifier I'm gonna attempt to talk our way in?
On the Bluff: second highest bluffer can try Aid Another, I guess? Those two at the door while the other four hang back a little?
I doubt even a strong Bluff will bring us all the way in, but every bit helps.
Guidance gives a +1 bonus on a single skill check, lasts for 1 minute so one must spend it before it expires...
First best should be Maritine. Mihalea has no ranks in Bluff, and studied target only works on targets she can see...
Kolthis will also spam some of that sweet Detect Magic and Perception in case anything is around, before we go off touching things.
okay so PLAN:
1) Perception monkeys take a few minutes to sweep the exterior of the building and around the neighborhood. It's a long shot -- could be there's no secret passage, could be it comes out inside a building three blocks away. But it's worth a check.
(And yes, spam spam spam Detect Magic!)
2) If that gives nothing, then we check whether anyone has at least +10 Disable Device. (Does anyone?) With Aid Another and Guidance, that would give a modest chance of unbarring the door. Note that we're trying to do this without attracting attention; I assume that DC 30 check includes holding the bar in place so that it doesn't crash to the ground. If there's someone on the other side, maybe they might notice -- sometimes you just have to take a chance with someone else's Perception check. But we don't want a situation where they *definitely* notice. If DMLC rules that's not possible, I suggest we don't even bother trying.
3) If that fails, the two highest Bluff monkeys knock on the door. Second highest provides Aid Another (nods a lot and looks sincere, I suppose); highest makes the check, with Guidance on. So that should be +8 or +10, with maybe a favorable circumstance bonus because it's actually true...?
Sound like a plan?
Climbing down by whatever means, it becomes clear this door is locked as well, but not so fiercely as the church doors - a rusted lock holds the swollen timbers in place within its warped little frame. DC 25 Disable Device, STR check DC 20 to shove open. It's a small door, perhaps three feet in height, and opens inward into the tunnel beyond.
Well butter my butt and call me a biscuit. I was not expecting that to work.
No halflings tho.
I have acid for the lock, alchemist fire for the wood (not recommended, but a potential idea) and thats about it. I might have some Tears to Wine left to boost anybody who wants a skill boost.
Lys has masterwork thieves' tools and +14 to disable device, so she can easily pick the lock by taking 10.
Done! Somebody needs to make that STR check though to ram it open.
I'll probably be able to get that one, post coming as soon as I get home!
Wow that went a lot quicker than I thought. Boy we're efficient!
Violet fungi: peck them to death from a distance with missile weapons, I guess?
Shriekers: keep the lights off. IMS they can also be triggered by "disturbance". Good thing we have a dwarf with darkvision and a crossbow!
Here's my thoughts: Use ranged damage to take out the violet fungi first and then the shriekers. That would be Kolthis, Lys if there's enough light, and possibly Walter if he wants to use a long-range spell on it.
Meanwhile the rest of us wait at the front of the church just in case. If all goes well and the fungi are destroyed without Hyve being alerted, someone comes and gets us, we all go back down the well and hit him from behind. If things go wrong and the shriekers go off, we'll stop him from running away. Worst case scenario is Hyve being alerted and not running away, in which case we'd have to go in after him without any element of surprise. But I can't really think of a way to entirely avoid that possibility.
Anyone have other ideas?
(To answer Walter's question from gameplay, no, Yelena doesn't know Silence.)
I have alchemical fire and an everburning torch for light. Also a traveler's anytool if we want to try rope shenanigans. It's useful to have.
And incidentally related to gear, GMLC I'm trying to shift my character sheet from mythweavers to here - MW keeps giving me issues.
If we attack the bottom violet fungi, we can try and sneak past the screamer and the other violet one.
The best option I see right now might be use our skills to bar the door and completely jam this exit. We can jam it normally, or Walter can use his Spell Sage ability to cast Stone Shape as a druid spell to seal the entrance completely after we leave.
Then, we go in the front door, and if the guy attempts to escape through here, he finds a sealed exit.
Feel free everyone to drop into OOC to figure out the plan!
Currently we've got:
1) Swarm the garden with ranged attacks
2) Divide the party, with half going up to guard the front door so the Keeper can't escape if the Shriekers get going, and the other half taking out the garden with ranged attacks
3) Seal the tunnel permanently and everyone come in through the front door
I do like the idea of sealing the tunnel, if it can be accomplished fairly easily. Otherwise I'd vote for option 2. My primary concern is not letting Hyve escape.
In addition to sealing up the well escape route, Maritine also has a couple of tanglefoot bags, so we could use those to 'glue' the sealed tunnel even more OR rig up some traps past where we'd have sealed up the tunnel to give us extra time should Hyve attempt to exit stage left.
Team,
I'm traveling for the next couple of days. Will try to check in, but posting might be sparse. Bot me if needed.
Also: the backstory for Walter is that he's had at least one horrific encounter with Mythos stuff, something so awful that it caused him to rethink his life and undergo an alignment change. (That's why he keeps going on about morality. Walter is Neutral Good, but he is literally trying to work out how Good works from reading books plus logic.) So he's working through Mythos-induced PTSD -- or, if you like, he failed a bunch of Sanity checks, back when, and is still clawing his way back from that. So I'm playing him as just barely holding himself together.
Point being, I don't want to overdo it! So let me know if I'm laying it on too thick, or if it becomes annoying.