After a IRL Crimson throne game fell through due to player conflict I find myself itching to run Curse of the Crimson Throne again. But one thing that I couldn't get out of my mind throughout the course of the AP is "This would be a great Batman game, shame you can't run a Batman story for a group." and then the paladin killed the rogue and everything went to the crapper. After tempers cooled they decided it would be best to play a different adventure path, and forget that ever happened. I really want to play this adventure though, and I'm tossing it out here, with a twist. One person will be playing, that person will be Batman.
-30 Point Buy
-Tristalt, one of the classes must be vigilante
-Unchained Classes are allowed, but not required. Occult classes are not allowed, nor third party.
-We will start at level 1
-For traits, you gain 2 standard traits, and Love Lost, Orphan. The bonus from love lost may be applied to any skill. You also gain the Rich Parents trait for free.
-You must be a human, half-elf, or half-orc. Keep in mind if you're a half-orc we can assume that neither Thomas or Martha was an orc, so maybe write that in as something additional in your back story
-The Renown features will be gained naturally over the course of the adventure, but features that give you extra benefits for renown must be taken.
-You begin with Renown in a small part of the Midlands district on the west dock.
-First off keep in mind that this will still be the curse of the crimson throne that people know and love, just with some added elements to mix it up and create a good Batman story.
-We all know the back story, after a play Bruce Wayne and his parents were mugged in an ally, Bruce was the only survivor. He lives with his Butler (And Lee Thompkins) until he goes and trains to become the batman. He then returns and is ready to save his city.
-In this story, Thomas and Martha were killed by one of Lamm's Lambs which is a child enslaved by an evil man. You could have been kidnapped if not for Blackjack, a Folk Hero in Korovosa.
-You will have a house in old Korovosa, and you will have a cave beneath the house. You may shape that cave as you wish over the course of the adventure. You will also have opportunities to build secondary bases throughout town, the Batcave on Arkham Island in Arkham Asylum for as an example.
-You've only been back for a week, in the meantime, you have been trying to locate Gaedren Lamm and avenge the death of your parents.
-A fully statted out character
-Answers to these questions
1. Where are 3 of the places that Batman trained?
2. What does "Wayne Tech" do?
3. What are your feelings about the Lambs? Do you blame them or their enslaver?
4. What is the public image of Bruce Wayne?
5. Have you revealed your return in your social identity yet? Or have you spent your time searching for Lamm and not reestablishing contact?
6. What does your costume look like? Obviously, it's not a fully formed Batsuit, it should be rudimentary. Maybe the beginnings of a bat symbol, maybe some pointed ears on the mask. What did you sow together in preparation to fight the crime in the city?
7. Does your batman kill? Why or why not?
8. When the adventure begins you are inspecting a house after finding a note (located in the next spoiler,) on a harrow card found on a Lamb. How did you beat up this Lamb (describe 2 abilities) and what were they doing. This should be about a paragraph (2 at max) in length.
-I will expect a post every day during the work week, but on weekends and holidays, I understand not being able to post.
-This is a solo game because a story with a group needs to be centered around the whole group, not Batman and his amazing friends.
-Applications will be due by the end of April, though if there are many applicants and traffic slows down I might choose before that.
Thanks for reading, if you have any questions or didn't understand my rambling feel free to ask. Hopefully, I see some interest in this, it's been something I've wanted to do for awhile.
This is a strongly batman-like gestalt build. I am not actually applying, because I play him actively in another game, but I wanted to present this for inspiration.
Interesting. Will there be any 3rd-party content allowed? Spheres of Might are always fun.
One note: I am currently playing through another Curse game elsewhere, but it hasn't gotten very far. Just wanted to be clear about that, if it impacts your decision any.
As i said in character creation no 3rd party classes.
I don't think it'd affect anything
Wow, I even read that part twice and I still missed it.
I’ll see if I can come up with something, but I’ll likely go for more of the spirit of Batman rather than a direct carbon copy- what would he be like in a fantasy setting with magic as opposed to the “real” world.
Interested! But also have a number of questions that boil down to: to what extent can one deviate from modern "canon" Batman?
Obviously not "I'm going to make Spider-Man" instead, but I'm thinking more like...
- ...does he have to use his fists or could he use a weapon? If guns don't exist in this world (do they?) would he be as against weaponry in the same way? Would that simply translate over?
- .... does Wayne need to be a technology company as such?
- ... without the technology level for a Batmobile, could/would he have a horse?
- ... does Batman even need to be a he?
- ... with Blackjack existing as someone that helped(?) Batman and that he looked up to (who is themselves already similar to Batman/Zorro), would Batman view his role as something different?
- ... can our alter-ego have a different career than just being rich?
-Guns do not exist, though they might be introduced at some point during the game. As for weapons I think that is up to the player, it makes sense to me that he would never use weapons (Or if he did he would use them non lethally,) but he also uses batarangs so take it as you will.
-I guess I didn't make question 2 very clear, it can be whatever kind of company you would like. It could be shipping, a magic item production+invention company, whatever.
-I have something planned over the course of the campaign
-Batman does not need to be a he by any means.
-I think Batman admires Blackjack, but at the same time he would be frustrated that he continued to ignore Lamm. He would probably view himself as someone who could do things that Blackjack couldn't/wouldn't do.
-I suppose
Some additional info for everyone
-Over the course of the campaign you will gain allies beyond alfred. There will possibly be several robins, and you will possibly inspire other people to join your cause.
Hope I didn't scare everyone off with all this information
I'm totally working on a submission, just trying to find the right classes that work together and really capture the feel. There are so many different ways to build it that I keep going in circles a bit.
Dotting for interest. Tristalt is always a bit daunting to me but I have been making gestault and tristalt character submissions a bit lately, so at least those gears are already spinning.
I do have a question related to both tristalt and that previous question on not just being rich as the social ID. Would you think it to be out of the spirit of what you are going for to have one of the classes being "staulted" in to be tied to his social identity? (I ask this being fully aware that use of those abilities in vigilante form, unless they were common enough, might lead to exposure of said social identity.)
OK, have a basic concept of the classes now. I think my "Batman" would be a half elf (though "both" his parents would both be human) mixing the Vigilante Class (Half-Elf Double-Scion Archetype), the Slayer class (no archetype... at least not yet), and the Investigator class (Empiricist Archetype). For the purposes of the Double-Scion, his social would be able to pass off as human, and his vigilante form would be taken to be an elf. (Elf ears... Bat ears... same same, but different.)
If I am doing this right, his BAB would be 1, his saves would all be 2, his HD would be using d10s, he would get 6 skill points per level plus his int modifier, and he would be proficient with simple and martial weapons (with a few called out exotics like the hand crossbow added in), light and medium armor, and shields (except tower shields).
I will work up a full build for him shortly. Once I have that I will answer the questions and submit a full application. Let me know if you see anything glaring on why those three can't play friendly in a Tristalt though... like I said, this is a bit of a challenge in crafting for me.
Color me interested. I'll try and get a submission together soon, because this sounds like a fantastic game!
Just outside of the edit period, so I have to double post to ask something pertinent to the build: would you consider the Close Combatant feature of the Fighter's Brawler archetype to be similar enough to the Weapon Training feature to qualify for feats and/or magic items that require that? It works very similarly, but per the official ruling on what counts, it doesn't strictly say that it works the same way, so it wouldn't necessarily count as the same.
EDIT: Got it in time this time. I'm still potentially interested in your answer to my question, but not sure it matters quite as much anymore, as I think I have another build plan coming together.
Hate to triple post, but I want to put up my submission for the game. I'm a big Batman fan so I tried to draw on inspiration for the presentation of the character both mechanically and backstory/personality-wise. I think the brawler/investigator combination captures nicely his abilities as an adaptable crimefighter with martial prowess and a plan and solution for any problem, coupled with stalker vigilante for a focus on stealth and intimidation. The background drew mainly from Batman: Year One and Batman Begins (itself inspired by that graphic novel), and I wanted to include a little bit of his internal monologue, which is one of my favorite things about the character in the comics. Hopefully that makes up for the final prompt's response being a little longer than two paragraphs.
Male human tristalt brawler (steel-breaker)/investigator (Lepidstadt inspector)/vigilante 1
LG Medium humanoid (human)
Initiative +3; Senses Perception +8
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DEFENSE
- - - - -
Armor Class 16, touch 13, flat-footed 13 (+3 Dex, +3 armor)
Hit Points 13/13 (1d10+2+1)
Nonlethal Damage 0
Condition Normal
Fortitude +4, Reflex +5, Will +3
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OFFENSE
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Speed 30 feet
Melee unarmed strike +4 (1d6+4 nonlethal)
Ranged chakram +4 (1d8+2/30 ft.)
Special Attacks Alchemy, Hidden Strike +1d4/1d8, Inspiration 4/4, Martial Flexibility 4/4
- - - - -
STATISTICS
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Strength 14, Dexterity 16, Constitution 14, Intelligence 16, Wisdom 12, Charisma 13
Base Attack Bonus +1
Combat Maneuver Bonus +3
Combat Maneuver Defense 16
Feats Improved Unarmed Strike, Skill Focus (Perception), Weapon Finesse
Traits Absalom Bouncer, Love Lost (Orphan), Quain Martial Artist, Rich Parents
Trained Skills
Acrobatics +7 (1 rank+3 class+3 Dex)
Craft (alchemy) +7 (1 rank+3 class+3 Int)
Diplomacy +1 (+1 Cha) (+5 with Social Grace)
Disable Device +7 (1 rank+3 class+3 Dex)
Disguise +5 (1 rank+3 class+1 Cha) (+25 with Seamless Guise)
Intimidate +6 (1 rank+3 class+1 Cha+1 Love Lost) (+7 with Interrogation)
Knowledge (local) +7 (1 rank+3 class+3 Int)
Perception +8 (1 rank+3 class+1 Wis+3 Skill Focus)
Sense Motive +6 (1 rank+3 class+1 Wis+1 Interrogation)
Stealth +7 (1 rank+3 class+3 Dex)
Languages Common, Infernal, Tien, Varisian
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EQUIPMENT
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Weapons
Chakrams, 5
Armor and Clothing
Battle mask
Belt pouches, 2
Burglar's outfit
Masterwork studded leather armor
Other Gear
Masterwork backpack
Alchemy crafting kit
Caltrops, 2 sets
Climber's kit
Crowbar
Formula book
Grappling hook
Manacles
Masterwork thieves' tools
Silk rope, 50 feet
Smoke pellets, 3
Twine, 50 feet
Waterproof bag
Possessions at Home/Cave
Alchemist's lab
Blue book of Korvosa
Fashionable accessories
Noble's outfit
Money 18 gp, 4 sp, 9 cp
Following the deaths of his parents, young Wayne didn't take long to begin traveling across Golarion, needing time and space from the murder--and the right education and experience to seek his justice. At the University of Lepidstadt in Ustalav, he learned philosophy and arts of investigation, from understanding the mind of a criminal, to the rudiments of finding clues and piecing together a mystery. He also learned more of his father's own work, the art of alchemy to cure ailments and discover the truth of the physical world.
From there, however, he knew that practical experience would be necessary. The duels at Lepidstadt taught him something of battle, but he would not always have a sword to hand--and few criminals would end a fight at first blood. The journey to Tian Xia was long and arduous, but it helped harden Bruce's body and spirit and ready for his training in distant Quain, famed for its many temples of the martial arts. But the techniques there were still formal, built on mystical theory and spiritual enlightenment as much as bodily function. Bruce holds no ill feeling toward such practices, but he knew he could learn only so much from them. So once he had learned what he could as an apprentice, the young foreigner took his leave and returned again to the other side of the world.
He dabbled in multiple regions, learning the ways of criminals, the ways of those who chase them. He finally found a mix of both in Absalom, the bustling metropolis at the heart of the Inner Sea. There he served for over a year as one of the notorious hotspurs, the bodyguard-guides who worked for anyone with coin and a mind to explore the city. This was the closest practical experience he could find, as the work took him from the finer sides of the city to its seediest establishments, defending foolish nobles in bar fights and providing enforcement for common thugs--thugs he would usually turn in later on, quietly leading the city's law to make important arrests.
But even this was but training, and a return to his hometown, Korvosa, was always his fate...
What does "Wayne Tech" do?
The Wayne Consortium is a powerful enterprise comprising multiple guilds and businesses, ranging from smithing to mercantile shipping to everything in between, whether through its own work or an alliance or subsidiary. The most well known business today, however, particularly in Korvosa, is Wayne Alchemy, an endeavor focused on utilizing magical science to create new opportunities and creations in many sectors. The late owner, Thomas Wayne, was himself a skilled chirurgeon, and hoped to keep the company focused on improving quality of life for the common people with alchemical cures and potions. Since his death and the disappearance of the heir apparent, however, the Consortium's leadership have sought to gain prosperity by focusing on other endeavors--according to rumor, primarily by making deals with Chelish nobility and providing improvements for their military.
What are your feelings about the Lambs? Do you blame them or their enslaver?
For a long time, Bruce has struggled with his feelings on the source of criminals, particularly in cases like the Lambs. Life can be difficult, and sometimes it seems there are no legal options for survival. But ultimately, he feels there are choices to be made, and while there are gray areas, there also depths of blackness. Gaedren Lamm himself falls decidedly in the latter camp. His servants were kidnapped, forced into committing crimes on behalf of the rotten man. They are not without their burden of guilt, to be sure--but Lamm himself is the real target, the real source of corruption. Removing a finger does not excise an infection from the arm.
What is the public image of Bruce Wayne?
For most in the city, Bruce Wayne is something of an enigma, and generally seen as a sad story. He was young when his parents were killed, only ten years old, and only narrowly escaped their fate himself (common rumor claims Blackjack saved him, but the precise details aren't generally known). The last most heard of the young man, he was off to boarding school in another nation--Cheliax, most people guess--and has all but disappeared from the face of Golarion since. He isn't believed dead by the average Korvosan, but they're certain that if he should return, he will be a changed man, and can only hope (or fear) he might be the same benevolent noble his father was.
Most recently, however, there are rumors of Korvosa's prodigal son returning to the city--quietly, and enigmatically, but here once more. What this bodes for Wayne Manor, the company, or even the city at large, remains to be seen.
Have you revealed your return in your social identity yet?
Although he has finally returned to his hometown, Bruce Wayne is on a path of vengeful justice, not noble reclamation. He has yet to make his presence known widely, although he isn't going to any particular effort to hide it. Inertia, more than anything, has kept quiet the return of Bruce Wayne: most of Korvosa does not expect him to be alive and present, and so most of those who would notice have not yet done so.
Instead, Wayne has been focusing on his own efforts: trying to dig up any information on Gaedren Lamm, the crime lord he blames for his parents' murder. But all the training in the world only goes so far, and the actual experience of fighting crime and searching for criminals is a far cry from his work so far. Already he has suffered wounds and setbacks, and only his sheer drive has kept him focused on a seemingly impossible task.
What does your costume look like?
Bruce has known all along that he could not face the underworld of his city under his own identity. It isn't merely the issue of legality; linking himself directly to such activity could destroy his family's legacy, mar the company's efforts, and bring undue danger to those few he still holds dear. As such, he's been struggling to protect his identity while forming an image. Inspired by Blackjack, the famed vigilante already operating in Korvosa, he seeks to become a symbol of hope and just vengeance.
In his trainings, he learned much about the minds of criminals; they are a cowardly and superstitious lot by nature, prone to images of fear. To accompany his armor, he has fashioned a mask, black as the night and shaped to bring primal terror to the front of the mind, evoking the horrors of the creatures that lurk in the darkness. His dark hooded cloak draws on the same imagery, while keeping him hidden in the shadows. He did not consciously choose the name of the Bat-Man, but drawing upon those dread creatures of the night was natural--for no matter where Bruce went in his travels, people instinctively feared those winged hunters in the night.
Does your Batman kill? Why or why not?
In his long years away from the city, Bruce struggled greatly with issues of death and mortality. Across Golarion, there are hundreds of opinions on morals, ethics, issues of when if ever it is appropriate to kill. Many claim it is more just to strike down those who have committed evil themselves; some even state this is the only remedy to the issue of criminals. Bruce is not so sure, and believes that holding himself above those he faces is important--so far as it is prudent. As such, Batman is not a common killer, and those he attacks are left alive, if beaten and broken. Still, he understands that some may lie beyond redemption, too dangerous and powerful to be imprisoned. Whether Gaedren Lamm is one of these remains to be seen, but even Bruce himself is unsure what his reaction will be when he finally confronts the man responsible for the death of his family and his life.
The setup.
Another night. Prowling. The Shingles are loud and dirty, like they always are. I pass over prostitutes hoping to see another morning free of the pox. I slip into the shadows as a pair of children run past, all skin and bones and scabs. A pesh addict stares after me with glazed-over eyes, and I doubt he'll remember me when the sun is up. Finally, the sound of a shattered window and a scream. I leap the gap and roll to my feet, facing the man who stands there, a crowbar in his hand. I see him perfectly even under the clouded sky. Long nights staring into the darkness paid off, in the end.
Not a man. A boy, tall and thin, and I know the look by now. A Lamb. Still, I have to pull my punches; he's only a boy. I could take him now, as he's turning, but he could fall on the glass--and in that moment of hesitation, he's already raising the crowbar. I think on my time in Quain, one of the forms for avoiding attack, and drop into the stance. A step to the side and the bar slams into the wood behind me, splintering the boards as the boy grunts. I snap a kick into his side, and I feel one of his ribs give under my boot. He gasps for air, staggering back, and drops over the side.
Quickly now. I can't catch him, but I drop to the ground below, a hand already going to my pouches. The fall was less than twenty feet. He's still breathing, but it's shallow, and blood is spreading on the dirt. Thankfully, I already have a curative prepared. I fight the wince in my stomach when his neck bends back unnaturally and pour the liquid down his throat. I watch as his head comes forward, the bloodflow stops, the breath becomes more regular. And as I place my hand on his chest to feel for the life there, I feel something under his thin jacket, like thick parchment. On a hunch, I reach in and slip it free.
A Harrow card. Curious. I start to turn it over, but there's shouting. Footsteps. Someone coming. I hiss and stow the card as I drop a pellet beside the Lamb's body. The acrid smoke covers my escape down the alleyways. But this is good. It's a development. It might be a guide.
I don't mind the triple post at all, don't worry about it. Looks good, can't wait to see the other applications. I might move up the due date, I'm really excited to get started.
Getting pretty close to having a submission ready... question though: Are you allowing background skills?
For sure, I can't believe I forgot to say that. Background skills and hero points are activated.
Very cool, I was wondering the same! In that case, my Batman will have ranks in Knowledge (nobility) and Diplomacy (since Craft is a background skill).
OK, here is a link to my submission: Brice Wavagne
I still need to buy gear (question: apart from the 900 you get from Rich Parents, how much are we getting to start with... and what class is it based on in gestalt/tristalt anyway?) and decide which social talent I want (though I have a question on that too: it sounds like we get renown for free... is that accurate or is it what we have to take at level 1?)... so still a work in progress. That said, most of the choices are done, so feel free to review and ask any questions you have.
Sounds good Helix
You just get the 900 gold, no extra gold from class. You get the renown for free, and then an additional social talent. Other than that it looks good mechanically Duke, tell me here when you're 100%
OK, gotcha on both. Working on gear now, social talent picked. I also noticed that I neglected to pick out my alchemy formulas, so I rectified that as well... but that got me thinking: can he craft his personal alchemy potions and not have Craft Alchemy as a skill? I would like to think so, given one produces potions for anyone to use, whereas the other yields extracts that only he can benefit from... but wanted your ruling to be sure.
I'm going to rule no on that one duke, sorry. YoriksRequim where you at?
Damn. Decision time then... do I keep Knowledge Nobility and sacrifice the alchemy potions from Investigator, or do I get my two potions at the cost of something that is kinda in character with the build.... will think on it.
In other news, down to about 180 gold, so mostly kitted (haven't reflected it on the sheet yet though, just in my notes).
Will have something worth sharing tomorrow! I'm going a bit off-script with it, which may or may not work to my advantage.
k, everything here looks good. If everyone's app is completed tommorow I might choose then, as you're the only 3 that have really shown interest.
Still working on some random gear. The big ticket items are mostly picked out though, I have them posted to his page. Note: the noble outfit, ring, jewelry, and sword cane would only be equipped in social identity form. The mask, armor, robes, and the plethora of other weapons would be for the vigilante form.
Also, ended up dropping Knowledge: Nobility to pick up Craft: Alch. As much as I wanted to have the knowledge, having access to my one spell set probably is a bit more useful in the long run.
If I'd seen this sooner I might have expressed interest. I completely missed this, though, until today. I just want to say it's a really neat idea.
I can't speak for anyone but me, but even though it would decrease the odds of my selection I would be willing to wait for you to get one together... assuming, of course, it is in a somewhat timely manner. Besides, Daedalus hasn't weighed in on if he is submitting a character either...
Up to the DM though.
Not sure if Deadlus is still interested, it's been a whole week. I think I'm going to stick with the quick deadline, sorry Phntm888.
Sorry Phntm, I'd have opted to wait for you. <3 And Daedalus for that matter.
Okay, I've got my submission done "Enough" since I'm the last hold out. I didn't finish gear and I'm still up in the air on a name, but the basics are at least there. Went back and forth a ton between Paladin (Enlightened) and Monk (Scaled Fist), and I'm still not positive I made the right call, but I think I dig how this came out in general.
Before I say my choice here's what I enjoyed about each Application because they were all very good renditions.
Helix Missionary: You focused mainly on Batman's duality between detective and skilled combatant. You also focused on Batman's psyche, especially in your RP example. The RP felt like I was reading a page straight out of a comic book.
Emerald Duke: Your character did a good job of marking a distinct difference between Batman and the man behind the mask, It felt like the game could be played both as Batman and separately as Brice.
YoricksRequiem: Your character was an unconventional interpretation of Batman, from the gender switch to seemingly focusing more on taking after his father in the doctor profession. You also focused on the distinction between Batwoman and Ruth/Brooke, operating with Ruth/Brooke being Batwoman's mask.
With all this said, I think I'm going to accept Helix Missionary if they will have me. Helix I sent you a PM, if you respond in the discussion thread I might be able to make an opening post by the end of the day.
Congrats, Helix, and thanks for the consideration, DM Greaek, this was a super fun game to apply to!
Congrats Helix. Sorry to not have been picked, but was an intriguing thought experiment if nothing else. Good luck to you both!