Campaign of Awesomeness! (Inactive)

Game Master BloodWolven

Will echo on keeping Rosa.

Lidras, for the record, only asks for party members to respect each other, work together, and be efficient. Good and evil are just words to him.

Considering you use Starknives, wondering if you were planning on taking Way of the Shooting Star?

Sadly, Davian is a cleric, not a bard. I have no problem with Davian's current build, and having a dedicated healer in the group is just as much of a boon as having a bard.

Niche:
Mildly curious your thoughts on Annwyn. I didn't go full-on optimization (bad things happen when I do), but I'm interested on your take for my 'spell lists are an illusion'/Master Shapeshifter wizard.

No prob, just thought I'd offer. Re: Shooting Star, Bard is an Optional prereq, and it would seem unfair to me that a Bard could take a Divine Fighting Style feat that applies to his goddess's favoured weapon, while a Cleric could not. Given that it is listed specifically as optional, I imagine Wolf could be convinced to let you take it.

Niche:

Mildly curious your thoughts on Annwyn. I didn't go full-on optimization (bad things happen when I do), but I'm interested on your take for my 'spell lists are an illusion'/Master Shapeshifter wizard.

I'll take a look, with the same caveats as with the others, I love optimizing, but I'm rusty as hell, and really best at optimizing the kind of characters I like to play... My favorite classes were probably Alchemist, Monk, Paladin, Gunslinger, Barbarian, and maybe Magus or Witch. I'm not sure I have actually ever played a straight Wizard. I have at least played a Cleric or two, so with Davian I wouldn't be entirely out of my element. However, that being said, I'm always happy to take a look.

The first think I notice when I look up Wizard optimization is that they should all apparently have Sacred Geometry, and reading through it, I can see why.

Edit: Looking through it, I don't see any obvious oversights... it looks pretty solid to me. The Shapeshifting ability is potentially extremely powerful, and makes it hard to guess at how she'll play out in the long run, since I'm not familiar with all the things she'll be able to change into.

Yeah... I'm sort of the opposite in terms of optimization practice. I'm fresh and up-to-date with all the latest stuff, but I still don't have a ton of actual hands-on practice with play. So it's interspersing to see another perspective.

Most of the character grew out of the idea of 'ultimate transmogrofist' mainly- having at-will shapechanging is awesome, and left me plenty of room to play around, first with the backstory and then the stats a bit. It was fun. Who knows what I would have landed with if going for the ultimate optimization build....

No. One who sticks his 'dagger' into Evil does not become Evil. Davian's Chaotic Good in the Streets AND Sheets.

"One who fights with monsters should be careful lest they thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."

As for Munkinisem, I can put my hand on my heart and say I have never don... who I'm I kidding, I have min-maxed loads, but over the years have found that 'Fluff' not 'Crunch' is where the player character is. I think that's probably why Wolf had us write so much background.

I put optimization and munchkinism in slightly different categories. They can be related, with a bit of a grey zone in the middle, but the latter is usually a more distorted example than the former. Munchkins lack a story, almost by necessity, and generally sacrifice even basic playability for combat (or a specific focus) effectiveness.

As for how a build represents role-playing talent or ability, that gets into a very old discussion that we are not likely to hash out here. I'm a firm believer in the Stormwind Fallacy. If you've not read that article, it is a good read. Basically the fallacy is Optimizers can't roleplay because they are immature munchkins. It is a fallacy because in practice, being good at game mechanics and being good at roleplaying are pretty much unrelated skills. You can have one and not the other, have both, or lack both. In other words, the proof is in the pudding. Dont look at a player's build to see if he can roleplay, look at his roleplaying to see if he can roleplay.

I've actually run a few games on this principle, with the advert reading "Optimizers Wanted!" In at least one I used the name DM Stormwind as a direct reference to the falacy, and have had some awesome players/roleplayers turn out as a result of these games. As a GM it also had the great advantage of having the party be more or less all at the same level, instead of the usual mix of a couple really optimized characters, a couple average, and a couple slapped together that have trouble keeping up or contributing.

Yes but that dose not address a more basic problem and that is

Player perceived balance level.

We ALL know the problem, you kind of said so yourself but your selling other players short. I'm a very long standing GM I have had this happen time and time again. It goes like this.

You start a game and a group of players make PCs, they have nice balanced ideas of a PCs they want to make. I have found that most plays will in fact self police to keep game there idea of game balance level even per PC.

But then this one player goes optimization, which is just another word for mini-maxing.

Now the other players worry this player will power game and over shadow them in game play. Its not about roll playing is about players idea of balance. Not the GMs but the players. A good GM will spot this and try and deal with it before thins get full on broken.

Your approach is to force all players to Mini max, which is OK as come players like that.

But a group of players will also seek to get balance back.
They can do one of two things to get balance back.

They can all mini max as well, But when a group ops or this I have seen time and again, great PC ideas, flawed wonderful PCs, gutted to be mini maxed rebuilt. Players slinging PC ideas out the window all to keep up with the mini maxer.

Or

They can do to keep balance by just ask the player to tone it down and put the balance back where they feel it should be.

Someone once told me something which has stuck years later.

Roll Player game,

A Game player, plays the game, seeing every advantage to win

A Roll player, plays a roll, Seeing every chance to play that roll.

:)

I think that for me...it comes down to this.

Take the other PCs and think of how you would use them to beat your own PC. If you can find a situation where the other PC wins, then you’re ok.

For example: Rosa is a Cleric. She could target Lidras’ will save to shut him down hard.
Snowbeard could Grapple Lidras into oblivion
Adegard could cut him up in close combat
Etc.

So long as another PC playing to their strengths can beat you, then there is enough balance.

It’s only when (being objective) that you come to the conclusion that your PC can slaughter the other PCs that there is a problem.

Here we are largely self-policed in this. I think that it wouldn’t be fun to be OP compared to the party. We haven’t had any combats yet, but if it becomes clear that there is a problem we can address it then.

Jup. Unless you manage to make an all-trici-pony who is for all intents and purposes as (or more) powerful than everyone else, there will be times where someone else is going to shine.

Old Snowbeard is a grappler and debuffing - lots of it coming via times cold damage spells, non-lethal damage and entorcer-fuelled intimidation.
Against undead ... Tough luck for me. They are immune to frostz most mind affecting and non-lethal damage.
I imagine that our noble halfling will have a good old time against those.
I second as witch debuffer (misfortune and cackle anyone?) and walking library due to my obscene number of skill points and into modifier but I severely lack ranged capabilities.
But, you just wait until I get a Spellcaster into my beard.
He must make two (!) Concentration checks against my CMD and cannot use any spell that requires either a material or vocal component ...

Sounds like we are all on the same page, as far as making sure the game remains fun for everyone is concerned. I think Jonny Panic and I would probably disagree on some semantics (I don't consider optimising to be at all like min-maxing, and munchkinism is another thing yet again), but none of that is important as long as everyone is in the same spirit. If we discover problems of balance, I'm happy to buff or nerf as needed, as I'm sure are others.

Regarding builds, like the others, I left some deliberate gaps in what Niche could do. He has no range attacks at present, has no real way of dealing with Swarms or Incorporeal enemies, can't craft or deal with mystic problems, and if faced with traps, could only attempt the barbarian method of defeating them. His main thing is really just being able to dish out damage, and take a beating. He'll make a great meat shield, and be good at pulling agro. He's a surprisingly good face, for folks that can get past the 'Ogre' factor, but I'm not sure there is anyone is this group is not a good face character.

Yup, also let's see what the characters can do first.

I would love to see everyone jump in and interact with each other more. Rosa and Davian are doing great; Lidras, Snowbeard, and Serill are doing pretty good.

Sorry, trying to be more active, but Finals are coming up and I've had very little free time, unfortunately.

I can't do much boss! You got me out with the sleeping curse until 'someone' comes and wakes me up.

I need to be touched by someone...
Zapped by another...
Or kissed by another... I know my curse is messed up. I can't wait until someone looks into it!

Understandable Annwyn, I just am prompting our players. I myself was not able to post for a day and a half, we understand IRL comes first.

For future reference if I make several spoilers for one check, that means that you make one check and depending on your roll you can look according to your check.

If you move and other checks are necessary typically I include a name with the check.

@Wolf: Are you okay with pre-game crafting (in my case: scrolls) and how about adding spells to my spellbook for coins pre-game?
I still struggle with my spellbook.
Its the first time I really get to play a character with a non-trivially-small spellbook now that I think of it ^^

Didn't think of it until after I wrote the post for the main thread, but what is the practice here with spoilers?

In most cases, I've found the easiest thing is to merely ask players to make sure they are keeping player and character knowledge separate, and if they look behind the curtain, that anything revealed there is for the player to know, and not their character. If something truly private needs to be communicated, a PM works better. This also has the advantage of allowing all the players to enjoy the full story.

I have seen the occasional game where spoilers are considered sacrosanct, but as that is unenforceable, most I've seen go with the previous method.

I suppose this is me asking for forgiveness as opposed to permission, but it didn't occur to me until after that I forgot to ask how Spoilers are treated here. OOC, I knew what Rosa was doing, but Niche would have no idea, and as he can't see invisible either, he will remain unaware.

No offence intended if this was a misstep, and I'm asking for the policy to make sure I don't reoffend by repeating something that might be taboo here.

@Wolf: Are you okay with pre-game crafting (in my case: scrolls) and how about adding spells to my spellbook for coins pre-game?

I still struggle with my spellbook.
Its the first time I really get to play a character with a non-trivially-small spellbook now that I think of it ^^

Yes I am fine with it, you are 5th level after all! ;)

Niche I would go for the first one. Make sure to seperate player and character knowledge.

Just realized today while watching a YouTube video by an American, that the word niche is not pronounced the same in all places. The guy in the video said "niche" as to rhyme with "switch." Where I am from, the word "niche" rhymes with "leash."

So when Niche says his name, it would sound like "Neesh."

Isn’t English great?

I hate to say this but in Scotland "Neesh" is slang for someone who hates the cold and wet, and is a bit of wimp when it comes to harsh weather.

I now have Sean Connery voice going in my head.

"Hessh a wee bit neeeessssh"

Ha! Well, as slang terms go, that is remarkably mild, and I think I can live with it. Usually when you hear about a regional slang term, it ends up being either an embarrassing bodily function, or someone that sex with ungulates. This is quite tame by comparison.

LOL! Wow yes English is complex.

Took me a bit to find a poem I remember hearing when I was younger on how idiotic english can be. I couldn't find the author, and it gets attributed to a few different poets on different websites.

I take it you already know
Of tough and bough and cough and dough?
Others may stumble, but not you
On hiccough, thorough, laugh and through?
Well done! And now you wish perhaps
To learn of less familiar traps?

Beware of heard, a dreadful word
That looks like beard and sounds like bird;
And dead: it’s said like bed, not bead —
For goodness sake don’t call it ‘deed’.
Watch out for meat and great and threat.
They rhyme with suite and straight and debt.

A moth is not a moth in mother,
nor both in bother, broth in brother,
And here is not a match for there
Nor dear and fear for bear and pear,
And then there’s dose and rose and lose —
Just look them up — and goose and choose.

And cord and work and card and ward,
And font and front and word and sword,
And do and go and thwart and cart —
Come come, I’ve hardly made a start!
A dreadful language? Man alive,
I’d mastered it when I was five!

Welcome to English!

Where feet fall asleep and noses run

That’s all I’ve got to add to this conversation :p

""Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo"

This is a sentence that uses correct grammar.

“Police police police police. Police police police police police police.”

Just... why, English?
And let’s not forget about the classic meal of ghoti and ghoughphtheightteeaups.

I like my ghoughphtheightteeaups julienned and deep fried.

On better and worse news: I am sorry for my lack of posting. I should have posted I would not likely be able to post on the weekend, it was my wife's birthday weekend. Then Sunday night on the way home I was driving in fresh snow and was going a little too fast down a steep hill. I slide into the embackment and have been dealing with the accident, shock and recovering from it. No real damage to me or the car, just me being in shock. Now I have recovered from it for the most part and should be posting daily again.

Yikes, good thing you're ok though.

Glad to hear your ok, yep rest will help GM wolf.

Dealing with the aftermath of an accident can be pretty stressful, even if no one was hurt. Take your time, we'll still be here.

Better and I believe all the shock is gone now.

Happy to follow local custom when it comes to the Gameplay and Discussion forums. Most games I've played in are a bit more lax, without hard and fast rules regarding what must go in one thread vs. the other. Usually, if something is directly referencing something occurring in the gameplay thread, it would be appropriate to post it there, even if it is not done in-character.

I posted the other questions there as that was where I had made those rolls. I thought about moving it to the discussion thread, but realized the rolls would be different I'd I did, potentially eliminating the reason for the post.

Regarding the Handy Haversack, I'm not understanding why the sword would not fit? I'm not familiar with the name Heward, it looks like that is a 5th edition term? In the PFSRD description it says each compartment is a miniature bag of holding. The main compartment can hold any object up to 80 lbs or 8 cubic feet. A Large Great Sword is 16 lbs. 16 lbs of steel has a volume of only 0.03 cubic feet, so by either quality (weight/volume) it is well within the bag's limits.

As always, GM's rules apply, so I won't argue the point any further if you overrule me, but by default, I'm not seeing why it wouldn't work.

Note: Rosa dose not want a fruit, she dose not trust them. To her everything comes with a price and she will not take one unless she knows what that price is.

And then I was hit with the stomach flu... took me out for another five days... Sorry team, still trying to catch up, post when you can!

Niche I understand and thank you for keeping with your rolls. Just giving you a friendly reminder. If you post in gameplay make sure that your character is doing something, you are explaining what your character is doing, thinking, etc. Then add an OOC comment as well. It is not just you many of us may or may not be in my games from before.

Heward's Handy Haversack, those from 3.5 would also call it a HHH sometimes, is the same as a Handy Haversack. Yes technically you could put it into the central chamber though in my many games putting a greatsword into it has not occurred. As the rules are written I will accept it, though make sure you don't already have over 64 pounds of stuff in it. ;)

Good to know Rosa.

Combat at the moment is being very loose since there are many elements.
Those on the ground should do something about the dragon before it begins eating the cleric... yes you are in its path right now Davian.

Happy yuletide festivities and new year everyone.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!! ;)

Ugh. So after finals finished, I had a full day of travel, then when I get home the power goes out for a full day.

Anyway, sorry for not posting yet. I've been meaning to for quite a while (Annwyn has aerial options, after all), but never was able to get the chance. Once Christmas stuff calms down a bit, I'll be back and fully active! Hopefully.

Anyway, Merry Christmas all!

Glad to hear your back, was worried there for a while. I like the play off, of Rosa and Annwyn. Would have been nice to see how she reacted to the Bronze. You can till post that if you help Rosa heal/cut him free. Just take it he talked to both of us.

I will try to come up with some ideas for Niche's bonus. Any idea what ballpark I should be considering? Say compared to your original 10 bonus items, where on the scale should I be thinking?

We understand Annwyn 'Life Happens'. It happened to me lately too.

Yup, what Rosa said, which could go for Aden and Serill too.

Niche, I haven't given it much thought and was hoping for ideas from you. ;)

Niche I am trying to understand this:
Power Attack/Flurry: 1d20 + 14 ⇒ (14) + 14 = 28
1d20 + 14 ⇒ (5) + 14 = 19

Damage: 2d6 + 25 + 13 ⇒ (2, 1) + 25 + 13 = 41
Damage: 2d6 + 20 + 13 ⇒ (4, 3) + 20 + 13 = 40

Unarmed +16 2d6+10+12(Acid)
Dragon Ferocity (Style) +16 2d6+21/2d6+16
Power Attack +14 2d6+25/2d6+20

There is no penalty for Flurry. Power attack you are taking 2 off the attack to add 4 damage to your attacks.

Your damage seems off. 2d6 is your fist damage + 11 for your strength + 13 acid damage for your charisma + power attack so +4.
So: 2d6+11+13+4 = 2d6+28

I don't understand where your base 25 or 20 comes from or the additional 13 damage.

I will be going through character sheets more closely as I have time.

Ah yes, I highlighted that I was using Dragon Style/Draconic Fury in the earlier fight, but didnt here as he will pretty much always be using it. With the style his first attack of the round gets 2x strength bonus, and all subsequent attacks get 1.5x strength bonus.

Strength 32 = +11
2x Strength = +22
1.5x Strength = +16

Power Attack adds +4

So I guess you were right, my damage was off, as it should have been +26/+20 from strength. The +13 is the charisma bonus that is expressed as Acid damage.

With characters this complicated, it would be surprising if no errors crept in, so I take no offense if anything seems off and needs further explanation. If something is incorrect, I'll fix it immediately.

Edit: Feel free to call anything into question; I am aware that Niche is powerful, but I did my best to keep everything above board. Looking things over, I did see a couple minor adding issues (a bonus here or there that was off by 1 +/-, mostly from adding in the bonuses from the tree in some places and not others), but nothing major, unless of course I totally misinterpreted a rule somewhere, which I wouldn't notice, because unless someone pointed out my mistake in the rules, it would still look correct to me.

Dragon Style: Gain +2 bonus against sleep, paralysis, and stun effects, and can ignore difficult terrain

Draconic Fury (Su)
The scaled fist can expend 1 point from her ki pool as a swift action to imbue her natural attacks with energy, causing them to deal an extra 1d6 points of damage of the chosen energy type for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 her monk level.

Also you don't have Dragon Style anywhere on your character sheet.

It looks like you are missing the feat: Intimidating Prowess.

Please link or post the description of your feats, also letting me know where they came from Class at what level, generic feat at what level, etc.
Dragon Ferocity:Oh my gooodness! Wow... their answer of how to make a monk hit harder than a fighter?! That seems massive and with no penalties to attack or anything!!!!
Benefit: While using Dragon Style, increase your Strength bonus on unarmed strike damage rolls by an additional one-half your Strength bonus, to a total of double your Strength bonus on the first attack and 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on the other attacks. When you score a critical hit or a successful Stunning Fist attempt against an opponent while using this style, that opponent is also shaken for a number of rounds equal to 1d4 + your Strength bonus.

Oops, I meant Dragon Ferocity but said Draconic Fury, but you found it anyway. Dragon Style is there in my list of feats; second one listed, between Combat Reflexes and Dragon Ferocity. I will add the links for you.

You Highlighted the 1d6 of Dracinic Fury above, I presume because I added 2d6 to my damage in my attack. That was because I was using Elemental Fist in that attack, not Draconic Fury. Elemental Fist would normally be 1d6 as well, except that Dragon Ferocity is the gift that keeps on giving:

Special: Taking this feat allows you to qualify for the Elemental Fist feat even if you do not meet that feat’s prerequisites. If you do not meet that feat’s prerequisites, you must choose one of the damage types that feat offers, and you can use only that damage type with your Elemental Fistattacks until you meet the feat’s normal prerequisites. A monk with this feat can use Elemental Fist as if he were a monk of the four winds.

Elemental Fist (Su)

At 1st level, a monk of the four winds gains Elemental Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 5th level, and every five levels thereafter, the monk increases the damage of his Elemental Fist by 1d6 (2d6 at 5th level, 3d6 at 10th level, and so on).

Intimidating Prowess is added to my list of available bonus Monk Feats by the Scaled Fist archetype, but I did not select it (it is not free). Is it a prerequisite for something I didnt notice (meaning I should have it even though I don't?).

So to be clear, Rosa can change her size by one Category, bigger and small. Is is large sanding some 16' high, she is now huge at 32', which means when she leaps into the air, her flight speed is 80' to get out of range. Also she should be able to carry Matthew with ease. Taking them both away form the goo.