Kel, if you intend to use Bodyguard/In Harm's Way/Suicidal for that attack against Lann, feel free to do so still. I just wanted to get Round 4 started since everyone had posted their actions. If you do use it, post it in the gameplay thread and I'll just retcon the tracking to reflect it.
It's up to you Kel, but Lann has Temp HP to spare.
I'm going to post another update post once I'm at a computer again, which will probably be later tonight. I can't do some of the stuff I need to do from my phone.
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Deia, just a reminder that you need to decide how far back you've moved during your action.
Unruly, you do a fantastic job with these NPCs. They drive me completely bonkers. Feels like an escort quest in the video game where you spend more time trying to outsmart your helpless friend's suicidal AI than actually fighting bad guys.
Anevia is the only functional one of them, and she can only move 5 feet a round.
Horgus has better combat stats than most of the party, but refuses to fight for his own survival. He hasn't even fired that crossbow once.
If Aravashniel had even one useful cantrip he could at least contribute something. Even if all he did was spam Guidance, that would be good.
If we survive this fight, I'm going to have a serious discussion with them about how they can improve the odds of their own survival.
Actually, both Anevia and Aravashnial have a speed of 15ft. Anevia because of the broken leg, while Aravashnial is because he's blind.
Also, Aravashnial would have some relatively useful cantrips if it weren't for his blindness - Acid Splash and Flare. Not the best, but at least it would be something. But that 50% miss chance really makes for some problems in the reliability department.
As for the NPC personalities, I'm mostly running them by the book. Horgus has actually been toned down a lot.
Horgus? Toned DOWN? You've got to be kidding me. :P
I was actually talking about cantrips that didn't need to be aimed. The beneficial kind, rather than the offensive ones.
Does Detect Magic require actual sight?
I don't think Detect Magic requires actual sight to be used. I seem to recall seeing somewhere that if someone is blind it simply acts as an audio cue instead of a visual one, but that may have just been someone else's suggestion that I read elsewhere.
And yes, Horgus has been toned down. Even with the Diplomacy checks, he's supposed to be incredibly crass, annoying, and of the "better than you" attitude. He's also supposed to constantly critique you at every turn while doing nothing to actually help. I've kept most of that, but I figured the constant critiquing would make him far more annoying than he already is so I kept it out.
We already have someone to do that. We don't need another one.
Hey Boss…
An alchemist adds his Intelligence modifier to damage done with splash weapons, including the splash damage if any. This bonus damage is already included in the bomb class feature.
And I completely skipped the "Throw Anything" entry because I was positive that, like every other class entry named after a feat, it was just a "Gains X as a bonus feat, even if they don't meet the prereqs." I'll fix the update.
I did make an attempt to verify that what I was saying was correct. It just turns out that it was a half-assed attempt due to my making assumptions.
I made that mistake once too, which is how I know now.
Unruly, I've been letting you keep track of the damage. You have a system that seems to be working.
That being said, I'm a little confused.
Your tracker went from -5 with 2 temp HP left to -14.
I only took 9 damage from that hit.
Wouldn't those two temp hit points actually put me at -12
The way I've been doing it is that the running total is your current damage as it relates to your maximum HP. The Temp HP part was to keep track of what amount of your total remaining HP was temporary HP.
So prior to this round you had, effectively, full HP with 7 of that being Temp HP[Listed in tracking as +-0hp(7 Temp HP)]. Then Tina tossed the acid, and you were in the splash radius. Which took you to, effectively, Full-5 HP with 2 Temp HP remaining[-5hp(2 Temp HP)]. Add in the 9 damage from Hosilla's attack, and you are at a literal Full-14hp, with 0 Temp HP remaining(-14hp).
Which is why Lann is currently listed as having +2 hp, since those 5 Temp HP put him 2 over his current maximum.
If you want me to change the way I keep track when temporary HP is involved, I can try to figure something else out. Or you can suggest a method. I just went with the way I did because I couldn't think of any better way to handle it.
Also, I'm not sure if I'm explaining it well, because every time I read it I'm thinking to myself "this would be confusing me if I didn't already know what I was doing." I've edited it like 5 times now trying to make it more understandable.
Ok, let me try again.
Prior to the fight with Wenduac, you were at -7hp. This was listed as "Kel: -7hp" in the Tracking section. During the Wenduac fight you were hit with Aid, which gave you 11 temporary HP. I put it in Tracking as "Kel: +4hp" to reflect that you were over your normal maximum by 4. What I forgot to do was differentiate the normal and the temporary HP in that initial tracking update. Then you got hit by Wenduac for 4, and the tracking section read "Kel: +-0hp(7 temp)" because I remembered to differentiate the temporary hp that time around.
When the Tracking section says "Kel: +-0hp(7 temp) I actually read it as your hp being 23/23, aka full health. But if this was a regular table game it would probably be written on your sheet as 16+7/23 or something, to differentiate those 7 HP as being temporary.
When I have "Kel: -5(2 temp) it means you're 5 damage below your maximum HP. I see it as a plain 18/23, but on paper it should be 16+2/23. Again, this is because temporary HP is different from normal HP.
Then when you took that last hit, I put "Kel: -14hp" which means that your HP total is 9/23. That last hit took all of your remaining temporary HP away, and ate into your actual HP again.
And I really hope I'm not confusing you further...
No, I followed it.
I think everyone in the slash zone can make a reflex save for 1/2 damage. It's been too long since I played an alchemist, so I don't remember.
Anyone know those rules off the top of their heads?
The rules for alchemist bombs say you get a reflex save for the bomb's splash damage, while the rules for acid say they give a flat 1 splash damage with no chance for a save. Add in the alchemist's rule for additional damage on thrown weapons, and you get the 5.
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My version of the APG says this about alchemists splash damage:
Splash damage from an alchemist bomb is always
equal to the bomb’s minimum damage (so if the bomb
would deal 2d6+4 points of fire damage on a direct hit, its
splash damage would be 6 points of fire damage). Those
caught in the splash damage can attempt a Reflex save for
half damage.
Here's the text for a flask of acid - You can throw a flask of acid as a splash weapon. Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. A direct hit deals 1d6 points of acid damage. Every creature within 5 feet of the point where the acid hits takes 1 point of acid damage from the splash.
And then the alchemist rules say that they add their Int bonus to damage on thrown weapons.
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Isn't this a standard case of specific rules trumping general rules when the specific case applies?
General:
A commoner (or anybody not an alchemist) throws a flask of acid at a dragon. Assuming it hits, the dragon takes 1d6 acid damage and anything in the splash zone takes 1 point of damage.
Specific:
A level 1 or level 2 alchemist with 16 int throws a bomb at the same dragon. Assuming no feats modify the bomb and it hits, the dragon takes 1d6+3 damage (typed as fire) and anybody in the splash zone takes 4 damage or can make a reflex save to take 2 damage.
Re-reading the text, I'm not sure if Unruly and I agree or not. Am I helping or should I stop typing because we are saying the same thing?
It sounds like you're agreeing with me. I think.
Both the Alchemist's bomb and the flask of acid have specific rules relating to their damage. There isn't any general rule for splash weapon damage outside of the splash damage radius.
The flask of acid deals 1d6 with 1 splash damage as its specific rule(outlined in the item description), with no saving throw mentioned. However, the Alchemist class has a feature that allows it to add its Int bonus to all thrown splash weapon damage, including the general splash damage.
The alchemist's bomb does 1d6 base damage, plus an extra 1d6 damage at every odd level, with splash damage equal to the minimum damage done by the bomb. It specifically mentions a Reflex save for half damage. It is also affected by the Alchemist class feature that adds their Int bonus to damage.
Since I've seen nothing that says "All thrown splash weapons are afforded a Reflex save for half damage," I'm inclined to believe that unless the weapon specifically calls for a save, you don't get one. In fact, looking at Ultimate Equipment and seeing all the splash weapons there, I'm positive that that's the case. Very few of them offer saves for the splash effects.
Now, if Tina had the Acid Bomb discovery and had thrown one of those, then you would get a Reflex save for half damage, just as if it were a regular bomb. But from everything I see, regular old flasks of acid(and holy water, etc) don't get one. And I think that's where the confusion might be coming from. Tina threw a regular, purchasable flask of acid rather than a modified alchemist's bomb.
I believe it is the splash damage that gets a save to cut damage, not the base damage.
The flask of acid doesn't mention a save against its splash damage in the item description. The stuff about alchemist bombs getting a reflex save is specific to alchemist bombs only.
Just an advanced warning, I won't be able to post from late Friday night until late Saturday night. I've got to watch my sister's kids and they live in a complete cell/internet dead zone.
It's going to be like that every Friday for the rest of the month at the minimum. My brother in law is out of town on work, and my sister works nights, so until he gets back I get to spend one of my days off watching their kids rather than making them hire a babysitter.
Just a reminder - I'd like to see round 3 get underway by the time I leave tonight. Tina and Kel have posted their actions, but I'd like to see Deia and Max get one in as well.
If you're waiting for an update based on Tina's action, then I'll just tell you she's missed now, and include that in a bigger update later.
No probs Unruly.
I had to watch my two five year old nieces last Saturday for two hours, I thought I was going to go crazy. I never knew little girls can be so loud!
I'm back from the boonies. I should be able to resume a regular posting schedule from now until next Friday.
Deia, since your target went down, I stepped you forward and had you go for Hosilla instead since she's the only remaining target. Hope that was ok. I just wanted to keep the combat moving.
If it wasn't, we can just retcon.
Man, I have to say, I've seen a lot of people complain about the Slumber hex being a combat-ender, but I'd say that Evil Eye has been the big game changer so far for you guys. The fact that there's literally no stopping it makes it such a useful ability, no matter the situation. I mean, even if you save against it you're still debuffed until the next round, and then they can try it all over again. And it can be used over and over, targeting different stats each time, unlike Slumber which is a one-use-per-enemy deal.
Don't take this as complaining, though. I'm just surprised by how utilitarian it is. I was thinking that Slumber would be the big one to have to deal with, but it's been Evil Eye instead.
Also, TWO, count 'em, TWO(!), natural 20's in a row!
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Agreed, I think that people confuse the usefulness of a lot of witch hexes. After all, there is a reason I pick what I do.
I also like it because it gives you something to do every round. You get to stay engaged as a low level caster, where as you normally have to really save your daily spells for important situations.
Ok! Who wants to see a rundown of our semi-rolling battle? I know I do!
4 CR 1 Mongrelmen
1 CR 2 Mongrelwoman
1 CR 1 Tiefling
1 CR 1/2 Tiefling
1 CR 2 Human
Grand total of... Just shy of an EL 7 encounter, going by adding up their respective XP awards. We'll call it an EL 7 though, since they had some favorable terrain there at the start.
Of course, it wasn't all thrown at you at once, and you had a bit of NPC help all throughout, but still an impressive deed in my opinion. Especially since not a single one of you got dropped into the negatives, though it could have gotten very hairy if it weren't for some judicious use of Aid.
Yeah the witch seems to be very useful with all of the hexes. I'm kinda glad one of my players in my Slumbering Tsar campaign decided to go with a Sorcerer now.:P
I'm playing a Scarred Witchdoctor in a Skull and Shackles game. He's just as awesome as a normal witch, but also has power attack and more HP than the fighter. :)
I'd like to remind you guys that you've got two currently unconscious mongrels, as well as a bunch of dying folks still hanging on to life.
Also, for that scarred witch doctor, are you playing it as a half-orc or a full orc?
I'd like to remind you guys that you've got two currently unconscious mongrels, as well as a bunch of dying folks still hanging on to life.
Also, for that scarred witch doctor, are you playing it as a half-orc or a full orc?
Half Orc. Here's the sheet if you're curious.
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TheSandman is an interesting build. I can certainly see him being a monster at low levels.
The whole point of taking Magical Knack is so you can dip into barbarian and not lose casting power? That would increase his ability survivability and hitty-ness but I want to understand the intended advancement path.
Yep, that's it. One level of Barbarian (Sea Reaver). He won't be able to cast spells while he's raging, but he'll still be able to use his Hexes, which will have really impressive DCs. It will set him back one level of casting progression, but I think the benefits are actually worth it in this case.
Just letting you all know that I will be able to post tonight. My niece and nephew are going to spend the night at their grandparents instead of me babysitting this week.
Next week I will be gone on Friday night though, guaranteed.
Kel, is your shield equipped or did you put it away?
It is equipped. I climbed up the ladder with it on so I'd be more defensive if I popped up into an ambush.
The reason I asked was that you said you "put it away" in your last non-combat post. I figured that you meant that you lowered it, but wanted to double check as I took it literally originally. I'll have to update the tracking since I had previously adjusted it for that charge hitting your flat-footed, shieldless AC.
I see what you're talking about now. I put away the shield so I wouldn't take it's armor check penalty on that stealth roll. I just forgot about it when I posted. You are correct, I should not have had my shield out. >.<
So here's an odd question-
I saw them first, and they weren't aware of me. How does being flat footed work in that regard? Seems like I would have been surprised. I've never completely been clear on how these rules work.
(Since I was surprised the shield question is moot since you don't get your shield bonus while flat footed)
I'm at work right now and the internet is down, or else I would look it up to confirm it, but I'm pretty sure that flatfooted is something that happens regardless of what led up to the combat. Its just that until your action comes up you haven't had time to react to anyone.
I wasn't aware of the flatfooted no shield bonus rule though.
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