War of Ages (Monkeygod's Golarion Game)

Game Master Monkeygod

I put the most recent idea I will put your ghost shadow sorcerer though.

This is Zazaleto :D

Here's my concept character gnoll :D She is an oracle of Iomedae. While she doesn't follow too many of Iomedae's principles, she follow her ideals of justice, albeit she bends it slightly toward males. Iomedae likes to be around men and show off her beauty as she is a rare case of gnoll. If she sees someone else going after her prey, she won't let them get away without a fight. :P

This is a really rough character concept and I left out equipment and such because I was unsure about how much money we had. I went by 20 point system as well because a point system wasn't mentioned. If you wan me to change anything I'll be more than happy to :D Also, there is a PDF in the profile if you want to look at it :D

Monkeygod said it was a 25 point buy for non monstrous races. Gnolls count as a monstrous race so you have to use the base stats but he said he will work with people on stats if the base stats are a bit low.

Ok :D That's good to know, If i use base stats, i believe the charisma score drops to a 6 or 7 and that's the key ability score for my character @.@

Also, I am thinking of borrowing an idea from one of my other GMs and creating GM Boons for each character , which can be any number of things from a special magic item akin to Legacy one, to a special class feature and more.

It's so nice when the little ones imprint on you :P

Also, I am thinking of borrowing an idea from one of my other GMs and creating GM Boons for each character , which can be any number of things from a special magic item akin to Legacy one, to a special class feature n more. Let me know if such appeals to you all.

I would certainly have no objections to such a thing. :)

(And I'm very glad to hear it won't be just hack and slash -- what's the fun in creating a bunch of wild characters if they never get to interact with anyone other than by bashing them over the head?)

Alright, having thought about it, I think I have settled on making a either a Half-Dragon or half-fiend (Infernal) Dwarven Soulknife. I'm thinking of making him a demon hunter from cheliax turned mercenary when he was betrayed on one of his missions and used by the crown to kill for purely political gain.

Now Half-Dragon being CR +2 means that I would make him as a level 11 Soulknife, correct?

Now what would I do if I decide to make him a half-fiend? At 10 HD half-fiend is CR +2 making him CR11 in total, but at 11 HD it becomes CR +3, which makes him CR 13.

I'm currently leaning towards Half-Dragon anyway (would rather be neutral instead of trying to make an evil character fit in with the group) but if I do go half-fiend, should I give him 10 character levels or 11?

EDIT : I also really like the GM Boon idea, I think it could be a lot of fun.

I made my half-dragon level 11. Since CR = Level -1 so level 11 = CR of 10 with the +2 from template making it CR 12. Also woot another half-dragon lol.

Yeah, half-dragon is pretty simple. I'm just stuck on half-fiend because you can't make one CR 12 with just class levels...

Anyway, I'm thinking I'll join team Dragon anyway so it's not that big a deal.

My problem is the back story I had to double check when nations were made what they were doing at the right time. So much research just for a character. I am not going with the bred half-dragon I am going with the one that is made from magical experiments.

I made my guy a level 8. Are we going for level 12 officially now? Also, there is a difference with a 12th level character and a CR12. With us mixing and matching there could be some problems.

As far as ability scores, here is my 2 copper pieces: IMO part of the CR increase in monsters is the ability scores they have. I am using a minotaur as a base creature, which only had like a 5 point buy. I added a 20 point buy on top of that.

All in all, this is a very fun and engaging exercise even if I don't get picked! Of course, I'm cheating a bit in building him because I'm using Hero Lab with the Bestiary add-on, which lets you change the CR and level up every monster in the book. Pretty cool awesomesauce!

Not level 12 a CR of 12. Monkeygod said the 25 point buy is for non-monstrous characters. He said if the base stats are lower than he will work with you on them if you are using a monstrous character. What class are you using with your Minotaur so I can change the list for Monkeygod?

Seems like there is already plenty of interest in this, I'll try and find another game. Have fun everyone!

Not level 12 a CR of 12. Monkeygod said the 25 point buy is for non-monstrous characters. He said if the base stats are lower than he will work with you on them if you are using a monstrous character. What class are you using with your Minotaur so I can change the list for Monkeygod?

I'm going to be a Minotaur Fighter. Funny enough, but in all of my years of player, I've never actually played a fighter. Must be the only one of the boards who hasn't.

One thing I'm doing also is basing the gold off of my figther level instead of my total level. I figure a minotaur is CR 4, so I shouldn't get average gold for those CR levels.

Thanks Mrdarknlight. Should get my character post up tonight or in the morning.

No problem I have no idea what Monkeygod is going to do with wealth but I think to be fair he might let us all get wealth by a set level. Remember that you get double hp for first level.

Updated Player List:
Interested Players with Idea or Character:
Tiny Coffee Golem - Drown Noble Ultimate Magus / Human Ghost Shadow Sorcerer(pending another game)
Kyrademon - Jade Tian an anime style human fighter
Beardy McBearderson- Drunk Satyr Bard
Pinky- Pseudgraon Ninja
Mrdarknlight- Half-Dragon Cavalier
Zazaleto- Female Gnoll Witch
Otm-Shank- Half Dragon Dwarvern Soulknife
Sirvel Mentor- Minotaur Fighter

Interested Players:
Rannald few ideas nothing up yet
Mark Sweetman

Sinvel Menter here, getting my dot as Charolis.

Charolis wasn't born in his current form. He was a human adventurer from Isger who had just started his training to become a ranger, following in his uncle's footsteps whom he admired a great deal.

It was on one of his very first adventures with his uncle and a few others, including the love of his life, a young girl he had know since before he was a teenager who happened to have a knack with traps, that his life would be forever changed.

He entered an infamous dungeon as a teenage ranger who was still wet behind the ears. He left this dungeon over a year later, alone, and a part bovine part human creature people call a minotaur.

There is the tease. I will write up a full history and put up the stats tomorrow.

I know this isn't precisely a RAW game, but here's what I glean from the rules regarding CR:

1) On non-monster races:

"Creatures whose Hit Dice are solely a factor of their class levels and not a feature of their race, such as all of the PC races detailed in Races, are factored into combats a little differently than normal monsters or monsters with class levels. A creature that possesses class levels, but does not have any racial Hit Dice, is factored in as a creature with a CR equal to its class levels –1."

So, a CR 12 character from a core race, or a race that doesn't give racial hit dice if you have class levels, should be level 13. (And this *might* indicate the appropriate wealth-by-level for the characters, although that is of course entirely up to the GM.)

Such a character would of course also use the 25-point buy instead of whatever stats are listed, if any.

2) On (possibly) Noble Drow and other "advanced" races without racial hit dice:

"There are a number of monsters in this book that do not possess racial Hit Dice. Such creatures are the best options for player characters, but a few of them are so powerful that they count as having 1 class level, even without a racial Hit Die. Such characters should only be allowed in a group that is 2nd-level or higher."

So, a Noble Drow might count as having 1 class level already, depending on the judgement of the GM.

3) On monster race character ability scores:

Under the monster-building rules for NPC's, it says:

"Creatures with class levels receive +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, and –2 adjustments to their ability scores, assigned in a manner that enhances their class abilities."

So, in RAW, an NPC monster (i.e., a creature with racial hit dice) should add those numbers to their stats BEFORE adding any class levels. However, it is unclear if this also holds true for PC monsters, where the rules simply say:

"Treat the monster's CR as its total class levels and allow the characters to multiclass into the core classes ... Treat the monster's CR as class levels when determining the monster PC's overall levels. For example, in a group of 6th-level characters, a minotaur (CR 4) would possess 2 levels of a core class, such as barbarian."

No mention of the ability score bonuses there. However ...

4) On monster race PC character class levels:

Those rules also state:

"Note that in a mixed group, the value of racial Hit Dice and abilities diminish as a character gains levels. It is recommended that for every 3 levels gained by the group, the monster character should gain an extra level, received halfway between the 2nd and 3rd levels. Repeat this process a number of times equal to half the monster's CR, rounded down. Using the minotaur example, when the group is at a point between 6th and 7th level, the minotaur gains a level, and then again at 7th, making him a minotaur barbarian 4. This process repeats at 10th level, making him a minotaur barbarian 8 when the group reaches 10th level. From that point onward, he gains levels normally."

Bear in mind that if I am correct in my interpretation above, this should be calculated for a 13th level group.

5) Note on monster race NPC character CR:

It should be noted that the monster advancement rules for NPC monsters with class levels are again a bit different:

"[A]dding a class level to a monster that stacks with its existing abilities and role generally adds 1 to its CR for each level taken."

This, however, assumes that people will build monsters with classes that mesh well with their ability scores, or have spellcasting abilities that stack with chosen spellcasting classes. If this is not the case:

"[I]ncrease a creature's CR by 1 for every 2 class levels added until the number of levels added are equal to (or exceed) the creature's original CR, at which point they are treated as “key” levels (adding 1 to the creature's CR for each level added)."

So, there appear to be two different ways to do it, although the one for PC's is probably the one to go with, I would imagine.

6) Caveats:

- Monsters as characters can be massively overpowered or massively underpowered. A Lillend bard I played had ALL the spells and bardic performance of a bard of her hit dice plus level -- e.g. hardly any loss of significant class abilities AND an extra level every 2.5 levels, so I was actually *higher* level than everyone else despite having a "lower class level" thanks to the stacking -- PLUS the equivalent stats of about a 40-point buy, large size, reach, and a natural attack, all completely within the stated rules without adding anything extra to her stats. Her only real (and minor) drawbacks were slightly lower bardic knowledge and an inability to wear boots.

A gnoll character, on the other hand, might be completely screwed without getting the +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, –2 skill set, or being readjusted to simply having a 25-point buy.

So basically, the GM should probably always be consulted and given the ability to adjust up or down as needed.

- I am not, of course, the GM here, so anything I say should be taken with several grains of salt. The real rules are what Monkeygod says they are; I'm just looking through the book for a jumping-off point.

(And I have adjusted Jade to 13th level in keeping with my interpretation of the CR rules. I can change her back easily enough if I am wrong.)

I have narrowed down my original concepts down to two - the Godling of Magic and the Chelixian Noble. The godling being a fiendish half-celestial human (shoanti) wizard (using eldritch godling) 10. He works out to CR 12. For my little Artemis Fowl clone I'm looking at advanced young human (chelxian) bard (celebrity) 2/wizard (conjurer) 11 who also works out to CR 12. Not sure which would work out better? Will be posting more later tonight.

I have narrowed down my original concepts down to two - the Godling of Magic and the Chelixian Noble. The godling being a fiendish half-celestial human (shoanti) wizard (using eldritch godling) 10. He works out to CR 12. For my little Artemis Fowl clone I'm looking at advanced young human (chelxian) bard (celebrity) 2/wizard (conjurer) 11 who also works out to CR 12. Not sure which would work out better? Will be posting more later tonight.

13 levels equals a CR 12?

CR for people with class levels is Level-1 = CR. So if you have 13 class levels your CR is 12.

Starting wealth is 120k, custom items are allowed via the table on page 550 of Core.

Kinda bummed a bit that Shroin felt he had to withdraw, as there's still at least several more days of recruitment left. One of the reasons I was doing this game the way I am is to avoid something like that happening. Oh well.

I'm curious, there's a lot of awesome concepts and with at least 3 days left of recruitment more may chime in, how would those who don't make the cut feel about NPCing their characters in some way?? Depending on the PC and the player's feelings the character could be an ally, an enemy, or just a random, albeit perhaps important NPC.

I think the best way to handle CR is similar to how Mark is doing it for his Undead game: if your a monster race, you take your CR and add levels to hit 12.

For example, in his game, my proposed character is a Dullahan, which is CR 7, so to get to his CR of 10, I added in three levels.

I think this way is the easiest, least confusing way, but I am open to feedback on this issue.

@Kyra, jw, how would you like to be my Co-GM?? you seem to have a decent grasp of the rules, even if that means just knowing where to look for the right info. You would start out playing as Jade, and then at some point during the game, when one "arc closes" so to speak, you would swap with me and I'd play my PC while you ran the game.

@Rannald, Fiendish and Half-Celestial?? very interesting, though not too much? I hope there is an amazing back story for that.

Alvar Voisard Half-Dragon Cavalier

I am cool with my character being a npc if I do not make the cut. I will have a full character sheet up tomorrow.

I'd like to try and get in on this. I'd like to make a dwarf Armiger. If chosen, I shall defend the squishies. I'll have the stat-block up by next monday/tuesday, and a background soon after.

Also, I would be fine with my character being an NPC. If on the evil side, an Armiger makes an excellent Bodyguard for a BBEG. If on the player side, Armigers can take punishment without taking the spotlight.

I think I may add the Advanced template, but I'm not sure. I was already thinking of him as being the Chief of a former Dwarf Clan that got sacked, and he somehow survived. His sheer badassery could very well be the reason he survived. I don't know, I'm going to give it some more thought.

@Kyra, jw, how would you like to be my Co-GM?? ... You would start out playing as Jade, and then at some point during the game, when one "arc closes" so to speak, you would swap with me and I'd play my PC while you ran the game.

Thought about this for a while, and ... sure, that sounds like fun!

Here are my only concerns:

1) While I don't think the time zone difference matters greatly when I am a player, it could slow things down with me as a GM needing to answer questions/resolve actions. I'd fully intend to post and respond regularly, but nonetheless someone posting in the U.S. evening might not get a response that same night, so combats and complex situations might need to progress at a leisurely pace. If that's not a problem for anyone else, it's not a problem for me -- it is PBP, after all.

2) Minor concerns: I don't have access to a lot of third-party material that's outside the SRD, and while I've both played in and run PBP's before, I'm fairly new to the Paizo site and there may be traditions and conventions here that I am unaware of. But both of those things will probably be taken care of by my being a player first and getting a feel for the other players' abilities and the way things are done here.

I'll send you an e-mail in case you would like to discuss this more off-site.

@TCG: There's a huge military base here in Heidelberg ... but apparently it's closing down in a couple of years. Everyone's wondering what's going to happen to the buildings.

@Sinvel Menter: Looks to me like Minotaurs get about a 12-point buy (figure +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Cha racial, then 13 pts for Str, -4 pts for Int, and 3 pts for Con). Definitely still on the low side for the CR, though, I would agree.

Im going to stretch the anything goes limit and submit a Salikotal Devil - Sorcerer/Assassin.

stats and such to follow and will have no problems being an NPC either.

Updated profile to be CR 12 and added money and everything is all set. For now at least XD if you want me to change anything let me know :D

@TCG: There's a huge military base here in Heidelberg ... but apparently it's closing down in a couple of years. Everyone's wondering what's going to happen to the buildings.

@Sinvel Menter: Looks to me like Minotaurs get about a 12-point buy (figure +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Cha racial, then 13 pts for Str, -4 pts for Int, and 3 pts for Con). Definitely still on the low side for the CR, though, I would agree.

The base we were at when I was there actually used to be a German base. When it closed many years after i left it was given back to the German Government. It probably became housing or something.

Edit: If I don't make the cut you're more than welcome to use my creation(s). ALthough my Drow isn't fully created. Just statted with his basic concept rolling around iin my head.

Pinky is almost completed, just need to finish buying equipment. I also need to get a BG for him.

MG if inky fails to make the cut, feel free to use him as an NPC. He would be perfect for such a roll, he he.

If he does make the team, is there a mage/sorcerer player who wants to team up with him? Masquerading as a familiar is the perfect disguise for him...

Pinky is almost completed, just need to finish buying equipment. I also need to get a BG for him.

MG if inky fails to make the cut, feel free to use him as an NPC. He would be perfect for such a roll, he he.

If he does make the team, is there a mage/sorcerer player who wants to team up with him? Masquerading as a familiar is the perfect disguise for him...

Assuming we both make it my Drow wiz would do that. He has a bonded item, so he's more than happy to pretend to have a familiar.

How do you feel about a few 3.5 spells?

There's a couple of Sorcerer only spells from 3.5 books I like. They're out of the Races of the Dragon and The other dragon book which escapes me at the moment.

Also I'm a big fan of the "heart of *insert element*" spells.

I don't have the books in front of me, but in general how do you feel about such things?

Hey can any one tell me what they think about my back story? I have never been to good with them so been trying to work on them. Any advice on that would be great.

@Monkeygod, the Armiger has an alternate HP rule. How would you like me to handle that? In the PFSRD, they say that the average HP/level for an armiger is about 7.75, do you want me to take 3 levels with 8hp, then one with 7?

Edit: I found a way that works.

I'd be interested in this game if there's room...?

My concept is a gnoll monk from Katapesh who wants to discover the source of human supremacy so he can claim it for his tribe. To that end, he's magically disguised himself as a human to be able to pass through human lands.

If I understand this right, I'd use a 25 point buy, then add the monster rules modifiers (+4+4+2+2+0-2), and level him to level 13? Or is it level 12?

Here's hoping there's a spot for me! :)

You do not use the 25 point buy for gnolls Monkeygod said he will talk with people on base stats for monstrous races. You need to get him to a CR of 12 so level 13 if all you have is class levels. I think Gnolls start out at a CR of 1 add 11 class levels to him to get a CR 12 for him.

Ah, ok. Thanks, Mrdarknlight.

I need some build advice. I'm basically a wiz\sor
I can use my spell lists together to the purpose of metamagic. In other words, it's really easy. I don't usually use metamagic and I need some help.

SO, that being said what are the best metamagic feats/spell combinations and why?

I have the character sheet up on this profile if anyone wants to look at it. Tiny Coffee Golem I have no idea I do not really play spell casters.
I made my character half magma dragon if that is okay. I thought since it uses fire like the gold and red dragon I would just get the cone from breath like the half-dragons that are half-gold or half-red.

SO, that being said what are the best metamagic feats/spell combinations and why?

Unfortunately, my knowledge is theoretical here, since the last metamagic-focused spellcaster I had was very much in 3.5; telling you to use Magical Lineage and Arcane Thesis to toss off Split Ray Empowered Chain Enervation spells does you no good at all, because only Empowered spell is applicable here.

So, here are, basically, my quick guesses.

- Empowered Spell for the 3rd-level damage dealers (fireball, lightning bolt) seems like a pretty good deal until you hit about 15th level, at which point Cone of Cold is just as good anyway -- but then Empowering that or Disintegrate seems like a pretty good deal. (Of course, at 15th level you can take Spell Perfection for some high level nastiness and Maximize the heck out of it, as well.)

- Having Still Spell and Silent Spell around are ALWAYS potentially useful for MANY spells. Emergencies happen. You want to be able to cast Break Enchantment or what have you if/when you get paralyzed or turned into a newt. And simply getting caught in a Silence area potentially takes you out right there if you do not have Silent Spell.

- If you focus your character on a particular type of elemental spell, it might be useful to take both a feat that heightens the power of that particular element type for relatively cheap (such as, say, Rime Spell) and Elemental Spell in a *different* element so that you are not caught with nothing to use if you come up against an immune foe.

- It is possible that Extend Spell may be useful with summoning spells, to obtain creatures that can last for more than a single fight. This may be overshadowed by the fact that you cannot summon your highest-level-possible critters, however. Extend Spell might be better used on buff spells you use routinely and want to last many encounters. 10 min/level vs 20 min/level (such as for Resist Energy, Stoneskin) is a big difference at high levels, and hour-per-level spells (such as Mage Armor) become all-day/all-night buffs with one casting. Even minute-per-level spells such as Shield will last many more encounters if you know lengthy trouble is ahead for awhile.

- Enlarge Spell could be fun on some of the very nasty close-range spells; I'll try to think of examples ... Dominate Person, Charm Monster, Slow, Enervation, Ray of Exhaustion, Hideous Laughter ...

- Merciful Spell just looks like fun.

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

SO, that being said what are the best metamagic feats/spell combinations and why?

Unfortunately, my knowledge is theoretical here, since the last metamagic-focused spellcaster I had was very much in 3.5; telling you to use Magical Lineage and Arcane Thesis to toss off Split Ray Empowered Chain Enervation spells does you no good at all, because only Empowered spell is applicable here.

So, here are, basically, my quick guesses.

- Empowered Spell for the 3rd-level damage dealers (fireball, lightning bolt) seems like a pretty good deal until you hit about 15th level, at which point Cone of Cold is just as good anyway -- but then Empowering that or Disintegrate seems like a pretty good deal. (Of course, at 15th level you can take Spell Perfection for some high level nastiness and Maximize the heck out of it, as well.)

- Having Still Spell and Silent Spell around are ALWAYS potentially useful for MANY spells. Emergencies happen. You want to be able to cast Break Enchantment or what have you if/when you get paralyzed or turned into a newt. And simply getting caught in a Silence area potentially takes you out right there if you do not have Silent Spell.

- If you focus your character on a particular type of elemental spell, it might be useful to take both a feat that heightens the power of that particular element type for relatively cheap (such as, say, Rime Spell) and Elemental Spell in a *different* element so that you are not caught with nothing to use if you come up against an immune foe.

- It is possible that Extend Spell may be useful with summoning spells, to obtain creatures that can last for more than a single fight. This may be overshadowed by the fact that you cannot summon your highest-level-possible critters, however. Extend Spell might be better used on buff spells you use routinely and want to last many encounters. 10 min/level vs 20 min/level (such as for Resist Energy, Stoneskin) is a big difference at high levels, and hour-per-level spells (such...

I'm a big fan of extend and it's relatively cheap. I'm thinking about a magic missle & Toppling spell combo. Just seems nasty. One could theoretically trip five people. ;-)

Hey kids, allow to me present my Co-GM Kyrademon!! <applause> OBEY HIM/HER/IT!! err, or you know, just abide by GM decisions, lol.

Just a quick heads up: When i said before that I would be willing to have those characters who don't make the final group be NPCs, I meant that I would want their player to control them aka they won't be run by me or Kyra.

GM Ruling: Gnolls, and other such lesser monster races(Duergar, Hobgoblin, Orc, etc) will count as a standard race for point buy.

@ Alehesia, I thought you were going with a Witch?? not that an Oracle is bad choice, though I'm assuming your an Oracle of Battle, who just happens to follow the ideals of Iomedae??

That shouldn't be a problem, Monkeygod. I have a few more tweaks, and then he'll be ready to go.

After many technical delays, here is the godling I've spoken about - minus the equipment and spell book. And I am still missing one feat, unsure what to choose from. Would be glad to take any suggestions or constructive critics.

@Monkeygod XD Sorry, initially i said Witch but I decided oracle instead :D And yes, i tried to explain that she doesn't follow all of Iomedae's ideals, she follows her way of judgement though :) If you want me to modify it a bit to something else I can.

This is Tiny Coffee Golem

Introducing Meredian Adriatnaic. I've got the vast majority of the nuts and bolts worked out, but as you'll see I'm still building.

Just to make sure i'm correct:
3 Free Bacnground feats
3 Traits one of which must be campaign.
Is all that right? Any suggestions on the campaign trait?