On a completely different subject, who's Tanisha?
Let's just blame it on teenage hormones. All these young tyrants. ;P
Btw we were told their would be no combat. Oh how the DM lies. ;D
I will admit I find the parallel between Vorik and Dorn/Fzoul and Manshoon interesting. Granted those two started out as allies then turned to rivals later on, this set up could go the other way and we start out rivals. Granted those two always kept their rivalry secondary to their partnership in regards of shared interest. :)
@Pox
A typo unless we have a secret PC/NPC in our midst. I smell a harper!
Yea, see, I'm going to have to 1000% disagree with ya there Pox.
Roleplay is important to me, and as long as the PCs aren't affecting each other in a negative manner, I see no issue with slapping, carrying, dragging, etc another PC.
Now, if I was going to slap Dorn, and deal damage, or activate a class ability, or deliver a touch spell then I 1000% would roll.
Same if I was going to pick up and throw a PC off a cliff, or into a fire.
If I'm dragging him away from a burning room, and saving him, cuz he's unable to act(disabled, paralyzed, stunned, etc), there should be no problem there.
On a completely different subject, who's Tanisha?
The vulture.
Let's just blame it on teenage hormones. All these young tyrants. ;P
Btw we were told their would be no combat. Oh how the DM lies. ;D
Stop slapping people on the back and we'd have no combat!
I'm pretty much in agreement with vorik. Regardless of the fighting, whether that's lashings for Dorn or his dog be slaughtered for attacking high command.
This should be roleplayed.
Yea, see, I'm going to have to 1000% disagree with ya there Pox.
Roleplay is important to me, and as long as the PCs aren't affecting each other in a negative manner, I see no issue with slapping, carrying, dragging, etc another PC.
Now, if I was going to slap Dorn, and deal damage, or activate a class ability, or deliver a touch spell then I 1000% would roll.
Same if I was going to pick up and throw a PC off a cliff, or into a fire.
If I'm dragging him away from a burning room, and saving him, cuz he's unable to act(disabled, paralyzed, stunned, etc), there should be no problem there.
We can disagree intellectually so long as by practice we roll when we want to lay hands on another PC :-)
Although that DOES raise the question, if the intent is to aid, the description then should read "I attempt to Cure Wounds on so and so" making the roll but not assuming that the healing takes place as the other person may want to resist.
I assume that to touch is ok so long as the intent is to aid and not harm. Though that gets back to the example that I ran into where I lifted the PC and ran them out when they were still capable of moving, not unconscious or disabled or similarly afflicted.
I'm pretty much in agreement with vorik. Regardless of the fighting, whether that's lashings for Dorn or his dog be slaughtered for attacking high command.
This should be roleplayed.
Within the context of the mission, Vorik is in command. Within the context of the caravan, the merchants hire out the caravan master so technically he is their employee.
Stop slapping people on the back and we'd have no combat!
Well I didn't expect the acolyte of bane to jump out of his skin over it. (¬‿¬)
Btw when do the guards take a shot at Dorn? Little hazy on the timeline of stuff at the moment.
Yea,
I'm not playing a game where I have to actually ask and wait for PCs to be healed, or buffed.
Think of how stupid this gets:
I channel positive energy to heal the group, but wait, I can't CUZ PLAYER AGENCY.
I perform a rousing tune to inspire my comrades to greater victory, NO WAIT NEVER MIND, PLAYER AGENCY.
The fighter is bleeding to death, let me cast heal, NOPE. PLAYER AGENCY.
Which, is like 1000x worst in a play by post, where we could be waiting for literal days before a player responds.
Take the above example of healing the fighter. What if I go to heal him, and I have to wait for the player to give the OK, but the player's great aunt was hospitalized suddenly, and said player isn't able to reply for four days.
Am I stuck in a holding pattern, waiting? And thus, so are the rest of the PCs, and the entire game?
Stop slapping people on the back and we'd have no combat!Well I didn't expect the acolyte of bane to jump out of his skin over it. (¬‿¬)
Btw when do the guards take a shot at Dorn? Little hazy on the timeline of stuff at the moment.
Right as he stands up, it somewhat negates the back end of your post but you could be moving in that direction to do just what you stated you wished to do.
Yea,
I'm not playing a game where I have to actually ask and wait for PCs to be healed, or buffed.
Think of how stupid this gets:
I channel positive energy to heal the group, but wait, I can't CUZ PLAYER AGENCY.
I perform a rousing tune to inspire my comrades to greater victory, NO WAIT NEVER MIND, PLAYER AGENCY.
The fighter is bleeding to death, let me cast heal, NOPE. PLAYER AGENCY.
Which, is like 1000x worst in a play by post, where we could be waiting for literal days before a player responds.
Take the above example of healing the fighter. What if I go to heal him, and I have to wait for the player to give the OK, but the player's great aunt was hospitalized suddenly, and said player isn't able to reply for four days.
Am I stuck in a holding pattern, waiting? And thus, so are the rest of the PCs, and the entire game?
I don't think that's what anyone is saying BUT I do want to make sure we have strong boundaries so everyone is clear on when to post:
I attempt to slap the s+@$ out of Dorn.
versus
I reach out to heal Dorn with CLW.
I think intent is the critical element here. If your action is one which intends to assist, without forcing a fellow PC into an action, assume that you can do so.
So Lay on Hands Paladin ability ok, pick up a conscious PC in a fireman's carry and run them along because your speed in 50 and theirs is 20, not so much.
Got it DM, thanks for the clarification.
Although that DOES raise the question, if the intent is to aid, the description then should read "I attempt to Cure Wounds on so and so" making the roll but not assuming that the healing takes place as the other person may want to resist.
This is what confused me.
Yes, you do say after 'I assume that to touch is ok so long as the intent is to aid and not harm', the comment above it seem to contradict that, and made it seem like one would need to wait to aid a fellow PC.
Defending player agency protects all players. So I can't just say, "I take your divine focus and destroy it." Etc. etc. Etc. Mocking that is telling me you don't give a s$+# about protecting both your rights as a player as well as mine. I am not okay with that.
I think common sense prevails in determining what is and isn't godmoding. If you really can't tell the difference, really can't figure out what is and isn't respectful play or good sportsmanship, that poses a massive potential problem for future play. Our characters can be disrespectful asses, but none of us should be.
Defending player agency protects all players. So I can't just say, "I take your divine focus and destroy it." Etc. etc. Etc. Mocking that is telling me you don't give a s%~$ about protecting both your rights as a player as well as mine. I am not okay with that.
Bro.
Are you not even reading what I wrote?
Taking somebody's divine focus, and destroying it? Totally an action with negative consequences for the PC it was taken from(Can't cast some spells, may not be able to use some class features/feats, etc).
This would absolutely call for a roll.
What if I wanted to prank Dorn by tying his boots together? Should I roll Crafts(Traps) or ASK his permission to prank him?
After all, as soon as he puts his boots on, and trips, I have taking over his PC, right?
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Defending player agency protects all players. So I can't just say, "I take your divine focus and destroy it." Etc. etc. Etc. Mocking that is telling me you don't give a s%~$ about protecting both your rights as a player as well as mine. I am not okay with that.Taking somebody's divine focus, and destroying it? Totally an action with negative consequences for the PC it was taken from(Can't cast some spells, may not be able to use some class features/feats, etc).
This would absolutely call for a roll.
What if I wanted to prank Dorn by tying his boots together? Should I roll Crafts(Traps) or ASK his permission to prank him?
After all, as soon as he puts his boots on, and trips, I have taking over his PC, right?
Clearly, attacking a PC physically or taking something from a PC is not something that should be described. It should be phrased as attempted with an accompanying roll.
Even with the tying boots example, I think a Sleight of Hand roll to tie the boots would be feasible as that is an action that can be contested with Perception. If Dorn failed Perception, he would indeed trip and fall (maybe after a Reflex save fail).
So not a bad example.
I think what I am driving at is to make clear what is and should not be allowed without some sort of contest when interacting with another PC. I'd prefer to just clear that s#&! up now than have this discussion ever again.
Thus, I think INTENT is what should govern whether a roll is warranted.
If your INTENT is to aid a PC, provided that is does not physically overbear that PC (my fireman's carry example) then no roll is needed as you can safely assume that the fellow PC will allow it.
If intent is to injure, harass, or intimidate a fellow PC, then it has to be a roll whether contested or against a passive defense.
I think that's pretty clear.
Please let me know if it is not. Then we can get back to this chaotic scene!
Thank you!
Tanisha is my vulture, for the record pox.
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Mawj folds his arms and takes several steps backward. Being a bodyguard was his cover, not his profession. He didn't have a horse in this race, so to speak, and endangering himself over a d*ck-waving contest was not on his agenda.
Heh, my favorite post so far in this scene.
Mawj folds his arms and takes several steps backward. Being a bodyguard was his cover, not his profession. He didn't have a horse in this race, so to speak, and endangering himself over a d*ck-waving contest was not on his agenda.Heh, my favorite post so far in this scene.
I weep for the loss of professionalism. Is it any wonder the heroes win despite the odds. The only one doing their job properly is the dog. ;P
I weep for the loss of professionalism. Is it any wonder the heroes win despite the odds. The only one doing their job properly is the dog. ;P
Only because he doesn't know any better. Cast awaken on him, or make him a familiar(thus giving him Int), and he'll be hanging out with Sunite sooner rather than later.
Btw Dorn, just want you to know I have no issues with you in or out of game as to what happened. As I said above, my real complaint was being accused of PVP and trying to 'godmod' or 'take over your PC', which was absolutely not my intention.
I have issues with Dorn in character, but it's with good reason. My character is an aspiring banite, so it would only make sense for him to ally or become a sycophant to another member of the clergy.
Heh, today was the second time I almost punched someone in the parking lot. I need to get back to heavy duty workouts again and burn off all of this aggression! Though I assure you, if I hit them, they would have deserved it.
@Vorik
Nah if I change Rook in any way, I would infuse him with planar energy to make him some sort of outsider. If I go LE maybe a hellhound then a nessian warhound at higher levels for example. Should the DM allow it or he could fade into the background at higher levels. Call Dorn a touch sentimental towards those that deserve it by providing loyal and valued service. He would only enhance those valued traits not compromise them. ;)
@Ja'far
Oh Dorn will take advantage come his turn against Ja'far's words. He knows his crowd and the lay of the land. If Ja'far wants to throw oil on a burning ship and go down with it. He will only be to glad to sink it.
@Shadow
Normally my job burns up alot of my aggression and I work out to feel better and less stiff. But some days you just get the perfect storm, take a little time for yourself is my suggestion. That's better then trying to burn yourself out.
Just keeping up appearances, we all have a part to play. It's nothing personal, I'm just keeping up with the mission in mind. Your dog attacked my "employer" whether justly or unjust, matters not.
As far as other merchants and guards know, we don't know each other.
Smart man.
Vorik, you are fully healed.
Btw, since there's been some claim of my shouting, and several comments about what took place,
Vorik spoke to Dorn quietly. I went out of my way to make sure that convo was very discreet, so if there was any commotion, it resulted only from the slap or Dorn got loud. Cuz even when he spoke after hitting Dorn, Vorik never raised his voice above quiet.
Btw, since there's been some claim of my shouting, and several comments about what took place,
Vorik spoke to Dorn quietly. I went out of my way to make sure that convo was very discreet, so if there was any commotion, it resulted only from the slap or Dorn got loud. Cuz even when he spoke after hitting Dorn, Vorik never raised his voice above quiet.
Oh yeah all that shouting was thereafter!
Heh, just making sure my intent was clear. Vorik didn't want anybody else to overhear that convo with Dorn.
Dorn I said "a northern barbarian" not "the northern barbarians". Pretty sure it was clear that I was solely addressing you.
Yea, re-read that Dorn. Ja'Far was only talking to you, at least that's the impression I got.
To be fair, we're all teenagers. Hormones and angst sway even the sharpest minds.
Didn't know that, well that gives you more reason to shake your head.
Actually I'm plane touched, so I probably use the ages for genasi or aasimar. Still technically a teenager, just much older.
|
Dragonborn age like a normal person until they have the ritual, at that point regardless of previous age you're considered an adult (presumably small children can't perform the ritual) and your aging starts over from beginning of adulthood and you have a few centuries until you're "middle aged" then another couple until you're "old"
@Ja'far
Well aware you were attacking Dorn, but that does not mean he won't twist your words to include ever other merchant or northern born person in the caravan that shares those things in common with him.
@Vorik
Ok I just have to ask at this point. What are you doing? How do you think this is going to in any way work out? Cause I personally don't see this going anywhere but downhill in the worst way.
@Dorn: In retrospect that's fair.
Trying to not murder you and your dog.
In case you have forgotten, I am the leader of this mission and I am talking to the other PCs, who are supposedly under my lead.
If they all want to ignore their leader, then whatever, what was the point of putting me in charge, if nobody will flipping listen to me?
I'm actually on the verge of walking out on this game, cuz I'm tired of this s#!+.
Monkeygod please, there is always annoying s%@* to deal with in games. Don't let it cloud your judgement.
Also, Omni, you are, without a doubt, one of the most disruptive players I have ever had the misfortune of being in a game with.
Literally, every single character you play that has ever been in a game with me is more or less impossible to actually get along with. You always play these incredibly overly superior seeming PCs, who never work together with the other players.
Look to the Lycan game, if you need proof, but you were the exact same way in the Drow game under Choon. You were also the first person to ever be thrown out of the Avalon game, which takes serious skill.
I'm just not sure I can keep being in a game with you, where you play yet another a~&@~!% who can't get along with the rest of the PCs. It's so incredibly draining and saps the fun out of gaming for me. I literally dread reading any responses from you, or having to interact with your PCs.
On walking out or the mission and leadership?
Trying to not murder you and your dog.
In case you have forgotten, I am the leader of this mission and I am talking to the other PCs, who are supposedly under my lead.
If they all want to ignore their leader, then whatever, what was the point of putting me in charge, if nobody will flipping listen to me?
I'm actually on the verge of walking out on this game, cuz I'm tired of this s!++.
The caravan guards who are supposed to take orders from Vorik are NOT aware of the Zhentarim mission.
The PCs are aware of the mission BUT two of them serve Dorn as "Guards". Only one serves Vorik as a guard.
The rest have their own cover.
Personal like or dislike aside there are two layers here to remember.
Vorik leads the mission BUT in the caravan is responsible for security OF the Merchants, essentially he is an employee.
I'll diffuse this IC when i am online later.
However, I'll not run a split squad as the group has to work together or not at all to finish the mission.
If anyone feels they need to drop, go ahead and do so I'll not take it personally. It's a tense scene but I don't think players should take PC actions personally.
Most of you are a!*#$%# bad guys so it's to be expected you'll be belligerent even to each other!
Haven't seen this much party infighting since my first campaign where we broke down twice into inter-party brawls.