Tora no Senaka - The Back of the Tiger (Inactive)

Game Master Dreaming Warforged

Sad thing is it is only +2. It will eventually not be as useful as now. I hope the module has some means to raise it's enhancement bonus. I hate it when a really cool sword shows up, but becoming obsolete due to the enhancement bonus being set so early.

The other stuff doesn't modify the plus cost, as I understand it, so it *should* be possible to further enhance it to a +3 defending flaming katana with 18,000 gp., and then +4 defending flaming katana for another 22,000 gp., etc. (to a maximum of +5 defending flaming katana for another 30,000 gp).

Still, it's *way* better than what we should have at this level, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. :)

I am reminded of some 1st edition game where a +5 longsword fell into the hands of the party psionicist (as a 'family heirloom'), and he promptly loaned it to our party fighter.

And then there was the game where a paladin joined our 8th level group and made some comment about wanting to quest for a holy avenger, and our fighter said, 'hey... wait a second...' and pulled one out of his belt. 'Yeah, we found this ages ago. It's just a +1 sword for me, and I've been using it as a torch...' and the wizard said, 'You held onto that? I sold the one I got...'

Lamest 'quest for a holy avenger' ever. :)

Nice!

Ok, if no one fights with the tetsubo, it can be carried at no cost to any member. I agree with the flavor thing. If one wants to use it as a weapon, then count it for it's +1 value. If one wants to keep it and not share it, pay half price :)

How's that.

And Set, don't start me on magic tree items! Btw, Evil Lincoln has been working on such a system (as did I). It's not low magic, from what I understand, but it's low magic tree.

I'm always open to try things! :)

Further question: Should I just erase the last +2 evil outsider bane arrow? It's very pricey for a one-shot item, so I'm probably not going to keep it if it comes out of my funds. And I should re-purchase my horse? Or are we switching to dog-sleds?

Sounds like a good group item :) Keep the arrow, but don't count the cost.

Do I need to worry about this in my WBL calculation? Second, would it be ok if I use the Teleportation subschool of Conjuration? I didn't really look at the wizard archetypes there and vastly prefer that benefit then 1d6 + wizard level ranged bolt. I'm flexible either way (staying core conjuration or the switching).

Hi TCB, any response to the above questions? Or did I just miss the answers in one of your posts? Adding one more question, should I go ahead and start posting in the Gameplay section (on my own and/or with Sorin) or did you have a particular point you'd like to add me in with?

No posting yet. You'll be introduced hopefully this week.

For objects that are pure flavor, just assign a small value for it.

For the teleportation subschool, go ahead.

Great, thanks for the quick response. I've updated my character sheet to reflect all those rulings. The top is worth around 100g, which I think is an appropriate value (most of a hirelings wages for a year). I also deducted 900g for my share of the lesser restoration wand, leaving me with 1095g.

I'm scraping the idea of using the Tetsubo. There's no way I can afford that.

I've got a question: Is this the way we're gonna start going about items we find? Having to pay for them and if not, we just can't use them?

If one wants to use it as a weapon, then count it for it's +1 value.

Unless I misunderstood TCB, you only pay for the +1 bonus part of it. The caveat is that the blood geas ability is something that the party shares. I think it's only if you wanted the entire package all to yourself (no sharing) that you have to pay the half the total price (+1 and blood geas). If I'm wrong about this, someone should definitely feel free to correct me.

That's what I meant. If you use it but are willing to share the other powers as a group thing, then you just have to account for the +1.

I think this method of handling magic items is a one time event. We've been playing a very low magic campaign to this point. This was a way to get everyone up to where they normally would be for magic items. We normally divide up what we find without having to pay for it.

If you would, please let us know about when these changes are suppose to take place. I hate making changes and then come to find out we're not suppose to until such and such a time.

And thanks for the clarification, fellas. But I'm still gonna pass.

Pride
Mithral Chain Shirt: 1400g
Horseshoes of Zephyr: 6000g

Theoden
+1 Champion Mithral Breastplate: 8200g
Mithral Heavy Steel Shield: 1020g
Mwk Cold Iron Falcata: 336g
Headband of Charisma +2: 4000g
Potion of Protect from evil(x6): 300g
Potion of Endure elements(x2): 100g
Mwk Lance: 310g
900g for the wand

And typical gear for nearly the rest.

I've got 830g leftover. I'll just save it.

In case it hasn't been said, I am obviously *hugely* in favor of this approach, as it has more than doubled the amount of items / equipment / gold Garand has gained since 1st level.

APs, in my experience (Council of Thieves, Rise of the Runelords, Kingmaker and this one) are *amazingly* bad about loot for clerics or wizards (book *three* of Council of Thieves, the GM took pity and invented an NPC who gifted the party wizard with three wizard scrolls, since she hadn't yet seen a single bit of 'loot' she could use), so something other than 'you get what you find' almost seems necessary.

It's possible that they also suck for rogues and monks or whatever. I don't play those classes, so I wouldn't notice. :)

I generally allow the players to sell loot and casters to purchase magic items and the like in major cities. Casters are usually loot light until they get to major cities.

I also work in magic items tailored to the party. Most of the time Paizo module designers are good about story and tossing in very generic, cool encounters. The DM has to toss in some magic the party can use here and there.

I would prefer that Celestial keeps the magic items according to what we find. It takes me out of the game to purchase them without recovering and selling anything. I don't mind the recovering and selling of items because that is what mercenary groups of old really did. You read up on the Medieval times, looting after a raid and selling the items in major cities was how things worked for wandering adventurer types. They would earn a wage now and again. The primary reason for being a soldier of fortune was the chance to loot fallen enemies.

Pathfinder/D&D is built on that premise. That's why I don't at all mind looting magic items and selling them because they are far more common in a Pathfinder world. They would be of great value. Just like jewelry or books looted in the days of old. Hell, you fed entire armies from looting your enemies and sacking cities. I much prefer we are allowed to take what we find, sell it, and buy what we want.

It's best if we try and find a method that works for our "table".

What I tried this time was to provide wbl by design, not caring about the computations that would result from having exact lists of loot items, for which I have to find the prices, then selling to come up with shares, then the pending issue of what to do with the shares of those who pick the nice campaign or seeing those that are full of flavor but probibitively expensive get sold.

If the intent is to be at wbl, then let's be at wbl without turning into accountants at the end of fights. Also, I tried to allow for major items to ne kept, but for these, there still needed to be paid a price, albeit smaller.

I'm ok with discussing how best to handle loot. IME it's always been a thorny issue.

I'm ok with wealth that way. As long as the assumption is we sacked the place and sold the stuff we found to obtain the items. I would still like a shot at stuff in the module as well if it is good for use. I still like finding an interesting and unique item over buying an item I make. I like to keep a sense of obtaining wealth through our adventures and not getting it because the mechanics say we should. It makes my character feel less like an actual person and more like a set of mechanics.

Makes sense. I'll struggle to balance the two.

Pavel wrote:

I'm all for pooling some resources for helpful wands/scrolls. I'm into the haste wand and the lesser restoration.

For now I'm starting the shopping for my gear:
23,500
- 900 for party wand
- +2 mithral shirt (5,100)
- Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (2,000 gp)
- +1 longsword (2,315)
- +1 handaxe (2,306)
First total: 12,621 (10,879 remaining)

Stuff I want to keep:

- Cloak of Resistance +1 (1000)
- Potions (CMW, Lesser Restoration- 600 gp)
- +1 cold iron morningstar (4,316 gp?)
I think the wakizashi is pointless to hold on to, so I'll drop it.
Current total: 4,963
- MWK Composite Longbow (Mighty +3) (700 gp)
- Boots of the Winterlands (2,500 gp)
Remaining: 1,763 gp

329 gp

Dagger 2 gp
Alchemist's fire x3
Acid x3
Backpack, masterwork 50 gp
Bedroll
Map case
Flint and Steel
Waterskin
Winter blanket
5 torches
Belt pouch
Silk rope (50 ft.)
Vial of ink
Inkpen
5 sheets of parchment
Whetstone
Compass
Mother's Varisian scarf
Soap
Grappling hook (common)
Climber's kit
Waterproof lantern
Oil
Medium tent

Cold-weather outfit
Explorer's outfit

I will account for the mundane stuff when I get a chance later, but that's what I'm planning to buy. Then I'll get more potions to free up other resources.

I barfed up some creative writing on the 'calling new animal companion' front. If you want to edit or tweak anything Celestial Bureaucracy, (different omens and portents, etc., as GM, that's totally your call!) please feel free to do so.

I did 5 minutes of googling, and looked up the cold weather rules, and have determined that its not possible to make an informed decision about this next part of the AP, or to meaningfully prepare for it, since, per the cold weather rules, it's not do-able, and per the long-distance travel rules, could take as much as three years to complete.

Average winter temperature at the north pole is -29 F. (Ranging from -45 F to -15 F.) But the north pole is just ice over water, at sea level, and significantly warmer than the south pole, which, like Golarion's north pole appears to be, is an actual landmass above sea level and a fair bit colder (average winter temperature -79 F).

Cold weather clothing (Garand bought five extra sets to keep in his new haversack, in case we run into people who need it, or one of our PC or NPCs suits gets damaged) will grant a +5 to Fort saves to avoid cold weather damage.

A Survival check can grant another +2, but halves movement speed, which will already be reduced (possibly even quartered!) by the heavy snow conditions and possibly halved again by poor visibility, if there's any sort of weather going on, which could bring us down to about 1.5 miles per day.

(I'm not real clear on the size of the Crown of the World / Golarion, but, at that pace, which is actually pretty optimistic for people crossing the arctic during winter, it will take about 900 days.) So, yeah, whatever is going to happen here, it can't possibly be using the rules in the core rulebook (which makes attempting to prepare for it kind of frustrating...).

But that Survival business (and winter clothing, for that matter) probably won't be an issue, since below -20 F, there's no save to avoid cold weather damage anyway, and the *average* temperature should be below that, resulting in us taking unavoidable damage every minute *for months.*

So it's looking like we'll need magical protection for everyone. And endure elements has a cap of -50 F, which probably won't cut it during the winter. We've got 5 PCs, 4 'name' NPCs, and then whomever Sandru has hired, and whatever animals we've got (Garand's elk, Théoden's horse, whatever beasties are pulling the wagons), all of whom will probably be dead within 10 minutes or so (1d6 damage / minute below -20, with no save, plus potentially another 10d4 nonlethal damage and fatigue) of the first day up there.

Somewhat amusingly, the Players Guide recommends an assortment of companions and familiars 'suitable to cold weather,' but none of them (including the recommended foxes and wolves) has any more ability to survive in cold weather than if we brought hyenas and parrots.

Anywho. Garand has spare cold weather clothing, which the game rules suggest won't help, so hopefully this AP has special rules that have nothing to do with any preparations we could make. This is one of those situations (like the Chelish opera in Council of Thieves) where I'm just gonna sort of sit back and trust the AP writers (and, more importantly, Celestial Bureauracy!) how this will work. Any attempt at figuring out how to make it work using the rules is just going to drive me crazy.

Good points Garand! I'll try to address these IC.

Assuming that Paizo actually read their own cold weather rules before writing this section of the AP, there's gotta be *something* I'm not seeing (or some new rules that I wouldn't know about!).

Would some Survival checks let us know about whatever they did think we were supposed to do?

I wouldn't spend too much time trying to view the travel in too realistic a fashion. I'm sure they threw in a bunch of weather problems for flavor. Other than that I'm sure they made the trip possible.

If Celestial in a play by posts stalls the adventure due to the players having to come up with some method for an entire caravan to endure extreme travel, we'd probably have to quit right here. I would hope that we didn't waste two years of our time only to be defeated by bad weather. That would be pretty lame.

I understand the desire to avoid getting bogged down with real-world travel preparation and such, but I also feel like there are opportunities here, both for role-playing and problem solving.

For one thing- it's good to have amicable disagreements like we are now. It introduces drama and gives characters a chance to show what they're about. For the other, somewhat selfishly, this is an opportunity for Pavel and Garand to shine a little bit with their nature skills after an adventure in the city. Heck, there's also opportunities for Daeron to shine coming up- getting through the snow could be much easier with a guy that can summon a fire elemental to melt a path for the wagons. Or it could lead to a sidequest- perhaps there is a magical solution to make the suggested course of action feasible but we need to do some legwork to recover it.

So maybe the magical katana can help us out and that's fine if we just want to keep things moving forward, but there are opportunities to be creative and reinforce our characters here.

I'm assuming there will be a combination of combat and environmental hazards. If people want to grab tons of firewood or other materials for making fire, they should do so. Besides magic along with survival checks and mundane cold weather gear, we're pretty much as set as we can get for travel.

My assumption going into this is that I'll be bundled up in cold weather gear with constant frozen breath. We'll have to move slow. Keep the horses warm. It's going to be a very hard trek.

Daeron, hang in there. I'm hopeful Sunday or Monday we should be integrating you to the IC thread.

Will do, I've been catching up with the recent game in character. As far as the travel north, I think as long as it's not completely trivial we'll be ok. Eager to see what awaits. Work and the new Total War can keep me occupied in the mean time.

Here's the cold weather rules from the PRD:

I'm not sure how this is supposed to work. Normally people don't travel over the North or South Pole to get somewhere. So this is going to be mighty strange.

Should we invest in Furs also?

If you scroll up just a bit you'll find cold-weather outfit as well to compare.

They both contain differing bonuses. One's circumstance while the other is just a bonus.

Of course, they don't stack with the Survival skill.

Just throwing it out there.

I've added the sword in the NPC section. I listed its known powers.

I'll move the story forward. Feel free to flashback if needed.

I understand the desire to avoid getting bogged down with real-world travel preparation and such, but I also feel like there are opportunities here, both for role-playing and problem solving.

For one thing- it's good to have amicable disagreements like we are now. It introduces drama and gives characters a chance to show what they're about. For the other, somewhat selfishly, this is an opportunity for Pavel and Garand to shine a little bit with their nature skills after an adventure in the city. Heck, there's also opportunities for Daeron to shine coming up- getting through the snow could be much easier with a guy that can summon a fire elemental to melt a path for the wagons. Or it could lead to a sidequest- perhaps there is a magical solution to make the suggested course of action feasible but we need to do some legwork to recover it.

So maybe the magical katana can help us out and that's fine if we just want to keep things moving forward, but there are opportunities to be creative and reinforce our characters here.

I want to move the story forward, so I prefer not to linger in Kalsgard.

The next chapter will indeed provide different challenges and will allow for a different way of shining.

To be honest though, I almost skipped that volume, wanting to bring you to the East sooner. In the end, I find there are a few very nice bits that I would like to incorporate. It's not every day that you cross the North Pole!

As always, feedback is welcomed. I try to adjust accordingly. The story can be railroady, but it comes with the AP and the JR territory!

I finally get to play a martial artist-type with a katana. I've been waiting for this. Thanks, Celestial.

Hi guys, I'm taking TCB's last post in gameplay as carte blanche to add myself to the party. I will put up a post around 12:30-1 PST.

I'd like to scribe the following scrolls as our party is travelling. I've listed them from most to least desired, so you can decide which scrolls I have a chance to complete. Each one will take 2 hours to complete (all scrolls have base values less than 250gp).

Endure Elements, Communal (CL 3, L2 spell) x 1 - 75 gp
Read Magic (CL 1, cantrip) x 2 - 6.25 gp each
Knock (CL 3, L2 spell) x 2 - 75 gp each
Protection from Evil (CL 1, L1 spell) x 2 - 12.5 gp each
Protection from Arrows (CL 3, L2 spell) x 2 - 75 gp each
Unseen Servant (CL 1, L1 spell) x 2 - 12.5 gp each
Message (CL 1, cantrip) x 2 - 6.25 gp each

Total time to scribe: 26 hours (13 days at 2 hours/day)
Total GP cost: 375 gp

Let me know what works for you, TCB, and I'll adjust my profile accordingly.

Works for me.

Please note I'll have a hard time posting until Tuesday.

Hey guys.

Sooooo, I am not dead.

Medical school has been about as rough as I expected it to be, but I passed my first basic science test, and my first anatomy test. My next tests are in October, so the fun is fast and furious.

The good news is that if you want someone to describe what happens when a sword lops off a limb, I can now describe it in excruciating detail.

I will try and pop in from time to time to keep you guys updated, but I don't think that I will be able to pbp for a while still.

Glad to hear that medical school hasn't killed you and used your body as a teaching tool for others, at least! Good luck on becoming a mad doctor! (Or, yanno, a sane one, if that's your thing.)

Nice to hear from you Zeta!

Have a great term and come visit :)

A question for you, DW:

Does Augment Summoning apply to all spells in the summoning subschool of the conjuration school? I'm not really sure based on the wording of the Augment Summoning feat. I'm in the process of statting potential summons (Mad Monkeys in this case) and thought I should ask.

Each creature you conjure with any summon spell gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution for the duration of the spell that summoned it.

School conjuration (summoning)

Arguments on the Paizo message boards seem to be pretty evenly split between applying it only to spells with Summon names (Summon Nature's Ally, Summon Monster, etc) and applying it to the entire subschool.

The wording is pretty straightforward. It's like cure spells. So only with Summon X spells, not with the entire subschool.

Let me know if you find this too limiting. I'm willing to hear arguments.

That seems like a reasonable interpretation and it's probably the one I would have made as a GM. I think drawing a comparison to the cure spells in particular makes a lot of sense. That would limit the feat to the following spells: Summon Monster X, Summon Nature's Ally X and Summon Swarm. Let me know if I'm misunderstanding you're saying.

A meteor falls on Théoden for that one.

LOL! I just fell out on this! I soooo knew you'd bust me on it, Set. That's just greatness. For the win! :D

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. What set it off was this:

"The leaf falls before winter, that the bare tree may survive, to be reborn anew in spring."

I stole those words, DW. It's from this: The Rose. And if you notice my grandmother's "name", you'll see where I got that from as well. :)

I think I like Conway Twitty's version a bit better though. But you can't go wrong with either.

That seems like a reasonable interpretation and it's probably the one I would have made as a GM. I think drawing a comparison to the cure spells in particular makes a lot of sense. That would limit the feat to the following spells: Summon Monster X, Summon Nature's Ally X and Summon Swarm. Let me know if I'm misunderstanding you're saying.

There's a bunch of specific summon spells as well, but quite a few are to summon specific daemons, devils or demons. It's also said to work with summon eidolon, for those summoners out there.

Sadly, mad monkeys, rain of frogs, conjure black pudding and eagle aerie don't have the word 'summon' in their name, so they don't get the bonus.

Note that, with summon swarm, both the save DC and any poison DC are improved by +2, thanks to being based on the Con score of the critters, so that's a small bonus.

Garand Stone-of-the-Moon wrote:

A meteor falls on Théoden for that one.

LOL! I just fell out on this! I soooo knew you'd bust me on it, Set. That's just greatness. For the win! :D

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. What set it off was this:

Daeron Lareththor wrote:

"The leaf falls before winter, that the bare tree may survive, to be reborn anew in spring."

I stole those words, DW. It's from this: The Rose. And if you notice my grandmother's "name", you'll see where I got that from as well. :)

I think I like Conway Twitty's version a bit better though. But you can't go wrong with either.

AhAh! Awesome!

That seems like a reasonable interpretation and it's probably the one I would have made as a GM. I think drawing a comparison to the cure spells in particular makes a lot of sense. That would limit the feat to the following spells: Summon Monster X, Summon Nature's Ally X and Summon Swarm. Let me know if I'm misunderstanding you're saying.

AsSet said. There is about two Summon spells per level.

I will likely be unable to post (or very little) until Tuesday.

Got stitches in two of my fingers after an accident at work yesterday; I'll have my action later, it's just tricky to type.

Ouch! Take care.

I thought you worked as a writer. Best I don't ask... ;p

Yeah, hope everything heals back 100%! Hand and eye injuries are the ones I fear the most!