I wouldn't normally do this but since we are never going to run into anyone with 5 hit dice more than me then there is no way it could ever be of use.
Somehow, I feel this is foreshadowing of our doom.
He's right. He'll never meet anyone with 5 HD more than him.
Of course, that doesn't mean there isn't anyTHING with 5 HD more than him.
DM Nerk, I'd love to trade out a trait (Tactician; +1 Init, 1/day +2 to an attack of opportunity). However, I've already rolled initiative. I was curious if you're planning on using the downtime rules for retraining? If so, eventually I'd like to retrain that feat into Acrobat (+1 acrobatics, -2 to climb at an accelerated climb) or Tireless Logic (1/day roll twice and take a better result on an intelligence check). It would have to wait a bit until we get a little breathing room, I think.
The ultimate campaign rules state
Converting Capital
You can trade 3 points of Goods, Labor, Influence, or Magic for 1 point of Goods, Labor, or Influence. Under certain circumstances, the GM may allow you to trade these resources at a 2-for-1 rate rather than the normal 3-for-1. You can trade 5 points of Goods, Labor, or Influence for 1 point of Magic.
Just curious on what your policy here is, Nerk. We could trade out some of our goods for labor, and get to work on the forge.
Or just convince some of the people to help? You do happen to be one of the few healers around, people probably want you to owe them a favour.
Or just convince some of the people to help? You do happen to be one of the few healers around, people probably want you to owe them a favour.
That's the plan. Slowly work my way up there with skill checks... I'm playing nice with Sandra before the meeting first.
Nice work Vallen, hopefully the Thayers will be more cooperative with you now.
Thoughts on earning capital. We've all talked about the problem of the gold needed to earn capital, in a situation where there is little gold. I've been thinking about halving the gp cost for earned capital for the first month, to let the first buildings happen a bit faster. This will apply to Them as well as Us.
Kal'Tos & Vallen: Convincing people to help is represented mechanically by spending labor capital. Since you guys didn't really get to talk about it ahead of time, you wound up with a shortage of labor and a ton of goods. Only with regards to your starting capital, you can "sell" it for the full gp price, but only to purchase different capital with it.
Cueta: retraining is fine. Good luck making time. :P
Cueta: retraining is fine. Good luck making time. :P
Ha! Yeah, it's a ways off :)
Thoughts on earning capital. We've all talked about the problem of the gold needed to earn capital, in a situation where there is little gold. I've been thinking about halving the gp cost for earned capital for the first month, to let the first buildings happen a bit faster. This will apply to Them as well as Us.
Kal'Tos & Vallen: Convincing people to help is represented mechanically by spending labor capital. Since you guys didn't really get to talk about it ahead of time, you wound up with a shortage of labor and a ton of goods. Only with regards to your starting capital, you can "sell" it for the full gp price, but only to purchase different capital with it.
That's great! Plan for day 4: Trade in 4 Vallen's goods for 4 labor, which is a 1:1 conversion in terms of cost. I like to imagine that Jarla had the brilliant idea to pay for labor with steel ingots, and later people will realize they need us to forge it into something anyway. What a racket!
That same day I will begin spending capital towards construction of the forge. Due to the size of our community, we can spend 2 capital a day correct? Once that capital is spent, construction "begins" and 20 days later we'll have a forge, if my understanding of the rules is correct?
Also, I added a list of npcs to our spreadsheet. Please add your thoughts/comments/anything I missed to it. I'm going to make a spreadsheet for our current construction projects as well.
Gair: I added a list of crafting projects, you can keep track of your bow building there if you wish.
Excellent, the forge should be well underway once we return from the salvage job. Hopefully we will be loaded down with useful items.
Speaking of the salvage operation we might have to prioritize what we bring back. Obviously our top priority would be survivors. After that I think food, seeds and tools are next. Then metal items that we can smelt down and make other tools from. Anything else will be prioritized after those items.
Hrm.
100 people is a village. I know I said that it didn't count as a village for purposes of buying and selling, but I was really only thinking of that in terms of more concrete things, like turning treasure into cash, or cash into weapons, potions, etc etc etc. For the purposes of spending capital, I think you count as a village with a spending limit of 10. I apologize for any confusion.
Also, my reading is that represents up to 10 points of each kind of capital separately. So you can spend 10 points of influence AND 10 points of labor, etc. If anyone thinks that's wrong, please discuss, though I think my read is more advantageous to you guys. (the table says "or" and the text says "and" Don't these people know how quibbly gamers are?)
As far as trading ingots for work, most of these people aren't metalworkers. What would you say to Jarla trading the promise of finished tools (plows, rakes, hoes, etc.)when the forge is done for labor? The working of those tools will happen "off the clock" so to speak, since it's just a narrative explanation for what happened to your ingots.
If there are a lot of survivors or the survivors are in pretty good shape. some of us can try to walk back, or at least across land to the bay. I am hoping a good number of my NPCs survived. Injured survivors would have to ride back obviously. I think we are going to have to make several trips to the wreck hopefully the Harpy's longboat is intact so we won't have to build one.
Nerk what is my family doing while I am gone?
Thus items will have to be prioritized, either way everything of value should be moved from the wreck to shore in case another storm moves the wreck. Even if there is worthwhile stuff we cannot bring back with us on the first trip there will probably be a delay before we could return to get more stuff.
Hrm.
100 people is a village. I know I said that it didn't count as a village for purposes of buying and selling, but I was really only thinking of that in terms of more concrete things, like turning treasure into cash, or cash into weapons, potions, etc etc etc. For the purposes of spending capital, I think you count as a village with a spending limit of 10. I apologize for any confusion.
Also, my reading is that represents up to 10 points of each kind of capital separately. So you can spend 10 points of influence AND 10 points of labor, etc. If anyone thinks that's wrong, please discuss, though I think my read is more advantageous to you guys. (the table says "or" and the text says "and" Don't these people know how quibbly gamers are?)
As far as trading ingots for work, most of these people aren't metalworkers. What would you say to Jarla trading the promise of finished tools (plows, rakes, hoes, etc.)when the forge is done for labor? The working of those tools will happen "off the clock" so to speak, since it's just a narrative explanation for what happened to your ingots.
Fantastic Nerk, construction of the forge will begin on day 4 then. Your explanation of what happened to the ingots is much more logical, I was just amusing myself with the idea of racketeering going on.
I am very much down with earning capital at half price for our first month. Unsure how much of that Gair will be doing himself but I think it's an excellent idea!
Ben: Your family is mostly engaged in looking after the kids and the sickies, and definitely not doing anything that could be construed as helping bigguns.
shouldn't mt fisherman brother be out trying to catch fish at least.
by the way Nerk you have a deck waiting for you to swab it on the wormwood.
Speaking of the salvage operation we might have to prioritize what we bring back. Obviously our top priority would be survivors. After that I think food, seeds and tools are next. Then metal items that we can smelt down and make other tools from. Anything else will be prioritized after those items.
I think priority #1 is getting survivors to shore and then everything not nailed down ashore as well. Hopefully this can be done in one full day, or a day and a half. If not, we'll need to leave the things on the Harpy:
Day 4: Scout ship, take survivors and goods to shore.
Day 5: Take a half day to get as much as possible to shore, if needed. Row out with what we can fit on the boat.
Days 6 and 7: Row. Come home heroes.
Days 8 and beyond: Profit!
I agree pretty much with Kal'Tos on the order of importance with a couple of minor exceptions/additions:
1. Survivors
2. Food, seeds (it is spring, so we may still get to plant this season if we can get farmers going soon).
3. Tools
4. Weapons (maybe in front of tools in the order of importance?)
5. Smeltable items, which can hopefully be turned into more tools and building supplies (nails, etc.)
6. Building materials (salvaged lumber, pegs, pitch, etc.)
7. Trade Goods and luxury items
I'm also going to be keeping an eye out for writing materials and paper/blank books. I'm not thinking to take too much as to crowd out the items above, but someone needs to be chronicling our experiences, mapping, etc.
We should bring any gold or other coinage as well, it shouldn't take up much space.
We should bring any gold or other coinage as well, it shouldn't take up much space.
Spoken like a true adventurer.
We should bring any gold or other coinage as well, it shouldn't take up much space.Spoken like a true adventurer.
As a cleric of the god of wealth, leaving gold behind would be in violation of my religious code. So I really have no choice in the matter.
Also, I added a list of npcs to our spreadsheet. Please add your thoughts/comments/anything I missed to it. I'm going to make a spreadsheet for our current construction projects as well.
Very nice, Vallen! I added a few notes about NPCs and added the Thayer construction projects to the sheet. Also adjusted the food sheet to take into account that the salvaging expedition has eaten another 5 food.
I added an enemies section to our NPC tab on the Resources tracking sheet. I'm pretty sure we can put the shark-teeths there for now at least, and I'm pretty sure there will be more.
I'm also going to add a hexploration tab. Gair, could you update hex 1 with any of your findings that I might have missed (I suspect that you have a better handle on it than I)?
Will do Ceuta! I'll add some of the terrain info Nerk's given us in a bit.
Notes from the meeting:
+19 working on Edmund's palisade (defensive wall - 5g 2i 5l 65gp) 16 days
+16 working on Sandra's bunk (7g 4i 7l 100gp) 30 days
+19 working on Vallen's farm (15g 15l 150gp) 28 days
The days are figured by adding the construction time to the time it will take the people to generate the necessary resources in gold and capital by taking 10 on their daily checks. Not as bad when people are pulling together, though I have to say, even given the scarcity of tools, 16 people taking 30 days to build a simple bunkhouse for ten people seems like a lot.
how big an area is the wall going to surround?
Not a heck of a lot. The biggest size for a defensive wall is 40 squares, so a square 10 squares (50') on a side. Enough to surround the spring and for the people to crowd into at night. He could get 2 built in a month, though, with a little help, making a 100'x100' area.
Ok, so that's 20 people joining the foragers, looks like pretty much everyone is spoken for at this point.
And yeah the 30 days is quite a bit, though 24 of those days are the construction time, yes? Will the people assigned to each task all be busy during the construction phase?
74 put to work, plus you six, plus Ingwe, the Thayers, 12 kids, 2 watching the kids, 1 sick with Gwenydd watching, and Zik is 100. Works out very neatly, actually, if we remember the other sick one is a sailor, and not part of your 100.
I think we can pretty easily decide which of the other named NPCs are where.
Tatya and Walton on kid duty.
Bern, Istiel and Kyle on foraging duty.
Eli and Hassan helping with the wall.
Shalla, Jarla, and Sorala working on the farm.
Gaross and Horn'Tos helping with the bunks.
I think we'll keep everyone at their tasks for 1/10th of the days, and then reduce the compliment to 1/5th. Rounding down in both cases.
So after a day, all but 3 of the wall builders will be freed up.
After two days, all but 3 of the farm builders will be freed up.
And after three days, all but 3 of the bunk builders will be freed up.
The way I'm seeing it, more wall (how many sections to enclose everything sort of depends on what "everything" is), more farm (how much to feed everyone and put some away for winter?) and more bunk (10 will house everyone) are all things that people will want, so half of the "freed up" workers will default to building the next section.
I'm considering other things, like the effects of various "buildings" other than generating capital. Like the farm generating food or the forge serving as tools for metalworking, I think a lot of things will have less abstract benefits. Bunks allow bed rest for healing and for a + to Heal checks for disease and so on. The wall has a defensive benefit obviously, and other buildings will help in other ways.
Only 5 food due to some terrible rolls.
Only 5 food due to some terrible rolls.
Ahh, that's right. I'm getting ahead of myself.
Question: Do rooms start being built beginning on the day the first point of capital is spent on them? For example, I spend 1 labor on a forge, every day that passes counts towards the completion date of the forge, and if the required capital is met by the end of the days to complete the forge is built?
Seeking answer to above question if anyone knows it?
Also, I was looking through sub-domains today, because I didn't see them when I was making my character, and saw the Construct subdomain. I wish I'd taken that instead of artifice, because having the ability to cast animate object as a greater domain power sounds hilarious and amazing.
Vallen: my interpretation is that you have to have ALL the capital ready to go before the building process begins.
Thanks!
I made some updates to the spreadsheets. adding some NPCs and some other stuff.
I put the food and goods that were recently discovered on the spreadsheet. Once it makes it back to Newspring we can figure out how much was ate on the way to the camp, or you can update it as we go.
The 10 goods being brought back isn't enough for another farm, but is exactly enough for a forge with our current capital. We can either save up for another farm or seek alternatives.
I was wondering, Ben, are you going to recruit a team of fisherpeoples? Sailors? Or perhaps we could build a Hatchery (In this case a fishery)?
I put the food and goods that were recently discovered on the spreadsheet. Once it makes it back to Newspring we can figure out how much was ate on the way to the camp, or you can update it as we go.
The 10 goods being brought back isn't enough for another farm, but is exactly enough for a forge with our current capital. We can either save up for another farm or seek alternatives.
I was wondering, Ben, are you going to recruit a team of fisherpeoples? Sailors? Or perhaps we could build a Hatchery (In this case a fishery)?
We got 11 goods back with us, Kal'Tos was able to carry one by himself. first time dwarf's ability to take a heavy load without penalties came in super handy.
We need to go back and get the other 40 goods sitting in the cave that will really help us get things moving.
We need to go back and get the other 40 goods sitting in the cave that will really help us get things moving.
We need wagons first. And wagons will require guards, I doubt we can spare the guys to move and protect several wagons until after the palisade is complete.
Will it ever!
After the forge a hatchery might not be a bad idea. I still suggest a garden (or two) in the near future.
On the topic of moving the goods. We will have two longboats once we get back, no? Without the survivors we could probably bring back a decent amount of good by taking another trip by boat if we end up really needing the capital soon.
Something else we need to consider though. I feel like some of these good won't be ours to spend though. I mean what about the other 40 people they belonged to before you guys showed up? I imagine some of them will want to use the capital for their own community projects.
Good point Gair. Some politicking will probably be enough to convince them to use it for the greater good- we could direct what they use it on, at least.
Out fit the longboats with sails. crew them with halflings. either Kal'Tos or Vallen to act as pack mule and dig out the goodies. Sail up to the beach we left from. load up the goods and sail away. No fires to attract attention. As for who owns them most of them become community property. The survivors can't reclaim them with out help So the community gets a say in how it is used.
I like the cut of your jib, Ben.
I also like to imagine a crew of hardened sailor-halflings sweeping across the sea.
That could work, we would need someone with profession (sailor) and with only 2 boats the math is iffy on doing it in one trip.
I only said Halflings because they take up less room. More room for cargo. Ben's brother Walton is a sailor/fisherman.
Do rooms and buildings cost gold as well as capital to build? I thought the gold values given was the cost of the structure if you bought the capital to build it.
I think recruiting a team might be more cost effective than building a hatchery. The team doesn't produce as much but the capital it produces is more varied and it costs a lot less to recruit.
I only said Halflings because they take up less room. More room for cargo. Ben's brother Walton is a sailor/fisherman.
Do rooms and buildings cost gold as well as capital to build? I thought the gold values given was the cost of the structure if you bought the capital to build it.
My understanding was that it is one or the other.
Spending capital costs nothing but the capital.
The gp cost listed for rooms etc is if you want to buy the capital outright.
Earned capital has a gp cost that is spent when the capital is earned.
Capital awarded (or discovered in caves) has no cost.
Oh, I thought the gp cost listed for the room/team was to be paid in addition to the capital, and you were having our starter capital/found capital be exempt from that. Thank you for clearing that up.
