Holy crap Stormstrider... Honestly man? I know it musn't be easy after being hammered like that day in/day in, BUT keep looking for something else - always look ahead.
Though... I've been through some hard jobs in my life, and came out stronger on the other end. I'm sure it will be the same with you, at the very least you will know you can actually take much more 'punishment' than you initially thought you could. And that is a win.
Thanks Raziel. To be clear, I've done this job before. I used to close like this 5 nights a week, on a regular basis. So I had a fairly good idea of what I was getting into! But I was in my twenties back then! Now I'm 49 yrs old and extremely out of shape! So I feel it a whole lot more! I didn't think they would be making me close this often now! But then again, I do a good job. Get it all done correctly. Don't take shortcuts or call out like the 'kids' do. So ... Of course they're going to take advantage of me!
And to top it all off? Today my landlord decided to turn the AC off again claiming that the littLe window fans will work well enough ... in EIGHTY-SIX DEGREES OF HEAT!!! So now I get to go from being very uncomfortably hot at home to the excessive heat at work! No relief to be found! - Well, at least at work I get all the drinks I want (I stick to diet minute maid lemonade!) and I can walk into the fridge or the freezer at any time!
I have reconfigured a few spells and now have two Water Breathing spells available, I also added Lesser Restoration. My character sheet is updated.
Fighting a migraine today. Sorry. I work to close again tonight - Wednesday, so I'll try to get a game-post up tonight after I get back home.
Due to a corporate inspection Monday night I didn't even get out of work until 1:13 AM instead of the typical 12:30 - 12:45.
You are a very repressed member of the proletariat Stormstrider. Do not despair comrade, when the revolution comes those bourgeoisie opressing you will be among the first before the firing squad.
I gotta say, those working conditions suck...
I gotta say, those working conditions suck...
That they do, that they do.
Lonam, you may wish to consider the following spell for the future as well: Nap Stack
Combine that with someone casting Keep Watch and you've got yourself a good chance of some serious resting!
And then once anyone can afford it get a Field Scrivener's Desk!
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Lonam, as to the Background Skills they come from the "Unchained" book. But you can get all the info you need at the site I linked above.
I was lucky enough that when a friend of mine got Hero Lab, he got a special offer to buy 2 more 'licenses' for something like $10 each, and so me and another friend bought those from him, and since they are all linked, any book that anyone of us buys, is linked to the other two accounts, so we all have every book that anyone of the three of us buys! GREAT deal!
do you mean this book? Pathfinder Unchained because I did find it in Hero Lab as a module but want to make sure I am buying the correct one this time.
do you mean this book? Pathfinder Unchained because I did find it in Hero Lab as a module but want to make sure I am buying the correct one this time.
Yes, Lonam. That's the one. I made sure it is the same one listed as the source-book on that PFSRD page I had linked for the Background skills info. NOT a module!
Please don't buy the book just to be compliant with me or any such! I don't want anyone having to spend money for my game. Obviously if you want it and can afford it, it is your choice of course. And more power to you! :D
EDIT: Just got your email. Haven't looked it over yet. Will do so soon as possible, but working the next 2-3 nights and quite tired the rest of the time.
Also, I laid down for a nap today. Alarm didn't work or may not have been set, not certain? I woke up at 4:15pm thinking I had to be at work at 5 so I'm fine right? ... When it suddenly hits me that they had scheduled me for 4pm today for some f+~+ing shit weird reason!!! I called, told em I'd be there in 15 minutes and I clocked in at 4:33 pm!!! Considering it's normally a 15 minute drive or so ... I did excellent! And it's the first time I've been late at this job, so, Ha, take that.
Okay, now I'm just blabbing. Tired. F&!+ Shit Crap B$#!! A$+&!+~ .... Etc etc. And venting! Again, pardon my french! Boudacia and Uriel can both confirm that I don't usually use foul language here much. But then again, at Wendy's they do let me bring home left-over nuggets or chicken fillets at close, So I've been eating a LOT of chicken! So maybe that's why I'm using more fowl language? Couldn't resist! There's a possibility I may be turning into a chickcluck! cluck!en or somecluck!thing. Blabbing again. TIRED. I'll shut up now.
I'll be leaving town in a little bit to head to a funeral. Won't be back until tomorrow. Won't be back until late tomorrow night. I'll have my phone on me, but posting will be limited for the next ~48 hours.
I'll be leaving town in a little bit to head to a funeral. Won't be back until tomorrow. Won't be back until late tomorrow night. I'll have my phone on me, but posting will be limited for the next ~48 hours.
Sorry for the loss. Thank you for the notification. Appreciated.
Okay, so this is my post to ask/discuss the possibilities of Uriel being damaged by other players attacks while he is engulfed by the Mudlord.
I can't seem to find anything in the RAW or RAI about a player that is engulfed or swallowed whole, taking damage from other players attacks vrs the offending monster. However I know I have been in several games where this happened and was applied by the DM. I do not recall it being a 'house-rule' or any such thing. Perhaps it was a 3.5 thing?
Do any of you know if there is any kind of RAW or RAI about this?
To me it seems reasonable that with an 'amorphous' creature such as the Mudlord (Or Gibbering Mouthers, Cloakers, Dark Mantles, etc.) that at the very least melee damage, and perhaps ranged weapon damage as well, would have some sort of possibility of dealing damage to an engulfed or swallowed creature. I'm thinking half-damage is what I have seen other DM's apply, and that seems reasonable to me. Perhaps it should be that the attack still has to hit the Flat-footed AC, or more likely the touch AC of the engulfed/swallowed player. Thoughts? Comments?
In this particular case Uriel does not seem to think he should take damage from Lonam's attack, since the Mudlord took no damage. But in my opinion, the weapon hit, the Mudlord takes no damage due to its own ability of Damage Reduction. The weapon (Morningstar) still pushes through the soft 'flesh/mud?' of the Mudlord though and hits Uriel dealing the damage, but not as hard and thus the half damage. Again I invite you to please comment on this as well.
Per the universal monster rules, under Engulf:
The creature can engulf creatures in its path as part of a standard action. It cannot make other attacks during a round in which it engulfs. The creature merely has to move over its opponents, affecting as many as it can cover. Targeted creatures can make attacks of opportunity against the creature, but if they do so, they are not entitled to a saving throw against the engulf attack. Those who do not attempt attacks of opportunity can attempt a Reflex save to avoid being engulfed—on a success, they are pushed back or aside (target’s choice) as the creature moves forward. Engulfed opponents gain the pinned condition, are in danger of suffocating, are trapped within the creature’s body until they are no longer pinned, and may be subject to other special attacks from the creature. The save DC is Strength-based.
Format: engulf (DC 12, 1d6 acid and paralysis); Location: Special Attacks
There is nothing in there that says a creature takes damage from someone attacking the monster with engulf powers, while engulfed.
If that is how you wish to rule it, so be it, but unless spelled out in the monsters write up, that is firmly a house rule.
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Per the universal monster rules, under Engulf:
The creature can engulf creatures in its path as part of a standard action. It cannot make other attacks during a round in which it engulfs. The creature merely has to move over its opponents, affecting as many as it can cover. Targeted creatures can make attacks of opportunity against the creature, but if they do so, they are not entitled to a saving throw against the engulf attack. Those who do not attempt attacks of opportunity can attempt a Reflex save to avoid being engulfed—on a success, they are pushed back or aside (target’s choice) as the creature moves forward. Engulfed opponents gain the pinned condition, are in danger of suffocating, are trapped within the creature’s body until they are no longer pinned, and may be subject to other special attacks from the creature. The save DC is Strength-based.
Format: engulf (DC 12, 1d6 acid and paralysis); Location: Special Attacks
There is nothing in there that says a creature takes damage from someone attacking the monster with engulf powers, while engulfed.
If that is how you wish to rule it, so be it, but unless spelled out in the monsters write up, that is firmly a house rule.
...as is not allowing a Reflex save versus the engulf...
I think adding damage to the person 'engulfed' is an extra layer of complexity. I don't find it needed, even more so because it upsets the equilibrium which is supposed to exist in monster design VS CR.
Overall, I don't think Pathfinder is supposed to be that realistic, and works fine as such. That is what Rolemaster is for.
First of all: Okay, message received. I'll drop the idea of other player's attacks causing damage to the engulfed player. Just for future reference in case this ever comes up, the 'Cloaker' monster does specify that ability - which would also be further indication that this cannot happen with the Mudlord.
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...as is not allowing a Reflex save versus the engulf...
Okay - another question folks. Uriel says I should have allowed him the Reflex save vrs the Engulf. By the RAW of the standard typical Engulf ability = Yes, he is correct.
However, my point is that I did modify the 'Engulf' slightly, instead of the Mudlord moving to occupy Uriel's space, since the Mudlord already had Uriel grappled, then it simply dragged Uriel into itself. Since Uriel was already grappled, and the Mudlord beat his CMD again, then how could Uriel even make a Reflex save to avoid it?
As per the Grapple flowchart PDF:
Round 1 of the grapple: Attacker initiates Grapple as a Standard Action = Attack (Standard Action)
Success: Grab ability = Attacker rolls Combat Maneuver Bonus vs Defender’s Combat Maneuver Defense
Success: Is the Defender adjacent to Attacker?
Yes: Grapple succeeds. Both parties gain Grappled condition. Attacker gains a + 5 to CMB check next round to maintain the grapple. Standard Action Ends.
Section Round 2 of the grapple: Defender's Turn
Grappled Defender may...
...attempt to break free, or become the controlling grappler, as a standard action. Defender makes a CMB or Escape Artist check vs. Attackers CMD.
Failure: Both parties continue to have Grappled condition. The Attacker still controls Grapple.
Defenders action ends.
Section Round 3 of the grapple: Attackers Turn
Attacker controlling, both parties grappled. Attacker may...
...maintain Grapple,
Attacker rolls CMB + 5 vs Defender’s CMD
Success: Attacker may choose to do nothing but maintain grapple, or...
...inflict lethal or non-lethal unarmed strike, natural attack, armor spike, or light / one-handed weapon damage to Defender.
Standard Action Ends.
Thoughts? Comments? Please?
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That action economy is fine, Stormstrider, as you have presented it. What that means, though, is that the creature is using its standard action to maintain the grapple on Uriel and do damage or whatever. The action economy breaks down, however, when you also give it a full attack against the other party members in the same round. The issue comes from using a blend between the “swallow whole” monster ability, which doesn’t allow a Reflex Save and does automatic damage to the swallowed creature (no grapple check needed, allowing the monster to continue attacking others) with the engulf ability (which is very powerful as a “pin” grapple—with the defender suffering a -8 penalty to his CMD and the attacker getting a +9 bonus to his CMB in this case—in part because it requires active focus of the monster (absorbing its standard action), leaving it very vulnerable to the rest of the party (can’t attack them, counts as grappled, loses Dex bonus to AC).
My suggestion, for what it is worth, is to pick a mechanic and use that. Swallow whole is the route you have gone so far...figure out how much damage Uriel has to do to the inside of the creature to cut his way out (per that mechanic).
...or retcon it and use the engulf rules if you wish...
Right now, from Uriel’s perspective (and the way it has been described in Gameplay), it is some kind of trap or vast amorphous creature embedded in the wall and he is trying to swim out of it, as one might do from quicksand or something—and for some reason the other party members are whacking or stabbing the quicksand instead of throwing him a rope. Of course he has an intelligence of 7, so there is that.
I do believe that up 'til now I have been quite generous reminding players of either abilities or actions they can take even though it is not technically my responsibility. I feel that by 6th level a player should know how to play the game and their character. As such I have made the following decision:
Starting with 6th level I will make it official policy that if a player forgets to use their own ability/ies, or make full use of their actions, or anything else, I (The DM) will not be expected to remind them of such.
I do reserve the right to remind anyone of anything that I wish to. I do understand that for some it may be their first time playing their class (Lonam's cleric for example.) and as such I may (or may not) choose to remind them of things.
Sound fair? Feel free to Comment/Discuss if you wish.
"Fortune (Su)
Effect: The witch can grant a creature within 30 feet a bit of good luck for 1 round. The target can call upon this good luck once per round, allowing him to reroll any ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check, taking the better result. He must decide to use this ability before the first roll is made. At 8th level and 16th level, the duration of this hex is extended by 1 round. Once a creature has benefited from the fortune hex, it cannot benefit from it again for 24 hours."
It is mostly just you. :P
I have not been forgetting about the fortune hex.
Note the bolded part of the rules for the hex above. You can only use it on a creature once/day.
To get the most out of it, you need to put the hex on somebody and then arrange for them to be within 30 feet and Cackle every turn, which takes a move action. And if you miss even one turn it goes for the day.
On an earlier level I managed to use it on the whole party [or almost] and kept it up for many rounds. But that takes many rounds to set up and has to be carefully maintained. Fortune/ Cackle isn't nearly as good as it sounds or as Misfortune/ Cackle for this reason.
So as I said, it is mostly just you. The bit that is not is that the combat with the Mudlord is turning out to be major and it is probably time to start using Fortune. And I took up your offer to use the hex this round in game. Incidentally, if I had been bad and looked up Mudlord I would have known how tough it is earlier.
And I think I have been too sparing with using the Fortune Hex. I wait until I think I can keep the Hex up for a long time and as a result under use the Hex.
Hey guys, I want to wish you all the best of luck with the game, but unfortunately I am going to bow out of it. Stormstrider's comments have made me realize I am not contributing to the game as well as I should (maybe I am more overworked than I thought, or maybe I am not as invested in the game as I should), and that is not fair to those who put their effort into making this a good game.
That being said, I first apologize for leaving you 'hanging', and then wish you a great gaming experience with a very committed GM like Stormstrider has proved he is.
Hope you will understand.
Best,
Raziel
Hey guys, I want to wish you all the best of luck with the game, but unfortunately I am going to bow out of it. Stormstrider's comments have made me realize I am not contributing to the game as well as I should (maybe I am more overworked than I thought, or maybe I am not as invested in the game as I should), and that is not fair to those who put their effort into making this a good game.
That being said, I first apologize for leaving you 'hanging', and then wish you a great gaming experience with a very committed GM like Stormstrider has proved he is.
Hope you will understand.
Best,
Raziel
I can understand that, and I hope you were not offended by my comments. Thank you for the notification.
Everyone, I'll keep Raziel's character in the game until either we finish this level, or decide to stop and head back to town.
Stormstrider
Sorry for my delay folks. Exhausted. Job is slowly, but certainly, killing me. Literally. Stress. NOT good.
Off on Friday. Will make post then if not sooner. Again, my sincerest apologies for the delay.
Take care Raziel.
Thx Boudacia ;)
Alright folks, I’m going to bow out as well. It’s been on my mind for a while that this game moves a lot faster than any other I’ve been in, PBP-wise. I’d been trying to hang on until we clear this level, but it’s become clear to me that I’m not holding up my end of the bargain, and rushing and missing things when I do post. The rest of y’all don’t deserve that. I wish it could be otherwise, apologies for letting y’all down. Happy gaming, and perhaps we’ll meet again in a slower-paced game. Best of luck.
Bye Chalkou. It has been fun gaming with you and Raziel.
Wow, I hope Chalkou and Raziel can find something to match their expectations.
Sorry to see you go Chalkou. Happy gaming.
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Discussion Time Folks: How are the rest of you feeling about this campaign/game? Do the rest of you wish to continue on as we have been? And if so, do you feel we need to look for more players?
I am willing to bot Chalkou & Raziel's characters for the rest of this level or until the party decides to head back to town. I think the party of 4 as is (Boudacia = magic & possible scout w/Wayne, Ilya = spellcaster, Lonam = healing, Uriel = Front-liner & some healing) will be okay. A character with some Disable Device and/or Trap Finding would possibly be useful, but I don't believe it essential.
I also want to mention, it has been said more than once that this PBP game moves faster than most. I have been very clear from the start about the rate of posts expected as posted on my profile page under the "Post Frequently:" section. My reasoning for pushing for frequent posts is the fact that we are only on the 5th level of the Spire and there are 16 levels total. We started this level on MARCH 1ST (Page 82) and still lack a fair bit. FIVE AND A HALF MONTHS so far! At this rate it will take many, many, MANY, YEARS to complete the Spire! While I am a dedicated DM I'm doubtful that even I would be willing/able to spend that much time doing this. I would of course prefer to finish the module if possible, so push, push, push it is. I'm sorry if some of you don't like this, I'm sorry. But again, I was clear about posting frequency from the start.
Thoughts? Discussion? Comments? Whatever?
I understand that you want daily posts, but in all fairness to all the players, you have not been able to keep up with your crazy, exhausting work schedule. You were going to post a turn on Friday, then on Saturday, and now we are stalled out. I do understand about posting every day and I check at least twice a day for new posts but I think it's really difficult for players to honor the daily post routine if your work schedule is going to grind you up and spit you out to the point that your only post is that you are to tired to post. And I suspect that I could not do what you are doing, and you are really exhausted, but that produces postings that seem very curt and short compared to when I first started and you had a more casual approach. I am willing to keep grinding at this campaign to see it to the end but we will definitely need some more players.
What Lonam says is true, that my work has not been allowing me to keep up with posting as I should on my part. And my apologies for the "I'll post Friday" then on Saturday, but I was scheduled to be off on Friday and then they changed my work schedule and had me work Friday and be off Saturday/Sunday instead.
I am slowly getting better adjusted or more used to the grind (and constantly sore feet, legs, back, and shoulders) and so should hopefully be getting better (slowly, eventually) at keeping up with my part of the posts. Right now every minute that I'm not working, my body just wants to sleep, or lay in bed watching movies/tv - which leads to me sleeping anyways. I don't even feel like playing any of my videogames or any such. Just too tired & sore.
One thing I forgot to say about the need (or no need) of more players; Due to the module being written for 4 typical characters, and our group having 6 characters (and without saying any names, in my opinion, at least some of those characters are min/maxed - meaning they are a tougher CR than your average character) I have been having to increase the difficulty of the encounters, by either adding extra hostiles, and/or increasing their stats, or some other means. I am horribly BAD at doing such in a fair manner and I have a terribly difficult time with it. So it is my opinion that going down to 4 players (with me using the encounters as written instead) would be much fairer and safer to the party - not to mention making my job in that aspect much easier. I would suggest that we try that approach, and we can stop and I'd do a search for more players at that time if you all feel the need. But I will go with a majority decision in regards to trying to find more players or not.
One other issue with more players, it also means more time between turns waiting for others to post and (if you are going to read all posts to try to keep track of everything - like I HAVE to do and all players SHOULD do!) then it is more time spent having to read, attempting to comprehend, possibly needing a correction/adjustment. More players = more time involved.
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Then with having to work on Friday, that made it 5 nights in a row closing!!! I don't remember ever having done that when I worked for Wendy's in the past, and back then I was in my 20's, and in better physical shape (not by much, but some) - NOT 49 yrs old like I am now (with possible early onset of Arthritis or some such similar my doctor thinks)! AND of course that 5th night turned out to be the busiest night we've had since I started and apparently long before that. Dining room closes at 10, Drive thru at midnight. Usually get out about 12:45. Friday night I clocked out at 1:17 AM. So, yes, I was exhausted.
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I am good with staying with 4 characters/players. I rolled really well for Uriel, so he is pretty tough compared to your average level 5 paladin. I would say that, since Lonam joined us most recently and made a dedicated healer for a larger party, it might be nice to allow him to adjust his character for more versatility (especially with our other frontliner leaving). Maybe for Ilyarnaro too if he needs it.
As long as we all are committed to posting regularly or notifying when we can't, I think this can work.
(1) I like your logic about four characters since the module was written that way. perhaps finish level 5 the way we are and with your idea of botting Raziel and Chalkou then have them remember some long lost errand to depart and a new player join us?
(2) My plans for Lonam was to begin building a better fighting cleric as he begins to level from this point forward since we seem to have healing in a pretty good way. I do need to upgrade some weapons and my abilities to hit primarily.
(3) As to being on your feet, it's miserable, I only work about two days a week now but I am on concrete walking up to 5 miles (8km) and I'm waiting to see someone about my slipped disc, and that disc is just above the one that's already had surgery. I very much sympathize with our DM.
4 characters sounds logical to me. If Stormstrider wants to reduce his workload in the campaign we can have the 2 characters he is planning to bot piss off fairly soon. That will mean we can start using the Scenario as Written [SAW, to complement RAW] straight away and Stormy won't have to bot them.
On another tangent, I think it is a mistake to think too much about when the campaign will end. PbP is just innately really slow. Imho if you are playing PbP you just have to accept it is glacial in pace and just enjoy it for what it is. My $2 worth anyway.
You have a manager at work that needs to be strangled, or better, blood eagled. Just be careful confronting idiots in managerial positions Stormstrider. You could get sacked and despite the oppressive nature of the work you need the job. Come the revolution comrades!
... the Scenario as Written [SAW, to complement RAW] ...
I like that! SAW, well acronymized (?) Boudacia! :-D
You have a manager at work that needs to be strangled, or better, blood eagled.
For any who may not know = Blood Eagle. I wasn't sure and had to check. That may be slightly extreme for the case in point, but it might be well deserved as well, so ... we'll leave it at that.
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Treasure: The module does not do well on providing treasure either, but since each level was written by a different author I can see how it might have been difficult to coordinate that.
I am going to be giving out treasure here soon and trying my best to make sure everyone has at least the amount proper by level according to the Table: Character Advancement and Level-Dependent Bonuses from the PFSRD. In that regard I would ask that everyone double-check the gear listed on their character sheet to make sure it is currently correct please. One of the good things about having your characters entered into my Hero Lab is that it will tell me the total combined wealth of all your gear as well. And thus, I can know if you have the appropriate amount of wealth for your level! :-D
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Lonam I am working on an email response for your latest HL update to your character. There are a couple of minor issues. I am hoping to get that email sent sometime tonight (early morning of Monday).
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And we seem to have a majority agreement on not adding more players currently. I do prefer to wait until a new level or trip back to town to 'vanish' the two players who have dropped though, and botting them on my own is not much of an issue at all for me since I am not having to wait for the 24 hrs to pass. And also, having them in my HL program.
In case you can't tell, having been off from work for two days in a row has done WONDERS for my mood, body, mind and soul! I am feeling a whole lot better right now! Basically just took both days all to myself! Slept most of the day on Saturday, and a fair bit of Sunday as well, so that also helped! :-D
There is a fine treasure generator on archives of nethys if you don't know about it already.
On the blood eagle, if you want the process dramatised google vikings blood eagle scene. I tried to create a link but it wouldn't work. Warning, it is a bit violent. This is from the marvelous "Vikings" series, which contains both of the elements of good television, sex and violence, in large amounts. Indeed, the warnings before the program often promise both strong sex scenes and strong violence.
In that regard I would ask that everyone double-check the gear listed on their character sheet to make sure it is currently correct please.
Just checked.
I have a character sheet to which there is a link in my profile, which is still at level 1- I am not sure how to update it.
The same info, up to date is on my profile, which you get to by clicking on my name above.
The gear there is fully up to date and even divides stuff that is mine and stuff that I am carrying that belongs to the party. I checked and it is all up to date aside from loot gained on this level that hasn't been divided up yet [if that counts].
well my gear and items are correct since I joined the party with what I have. I will look over the new file soon, I am taking care of my ESO needs for a while!
... I am taking care of my ESO needs for a while!
I'm jealous. I haven't played since I started at Wendy's (1 & 1/2 months now) because I'm too tired.
Played my virtual tabletop Pathfinder yesterday and fell asleep while playing, missed an entire lengthy conversation/meeting with the Top Pirate captain of our world. Homebrew, world surface is something like 93% ocean/water, so there are literally like a billion pirates (okay, maybe only a couple million?) on this world, and we had a meeting with the top one and I fell asleep!?!?! Shameful! - At least we all got hired to work directly for him! Yay! I woke up just in time to ask them to repeat the offer 'for clarification' and then say yes!
I've updated my character sheet with adventuring and background skills broken out separately. I picked up two additional languages so I chose Sahaugin and Ancient Osiriani, removed the third trait, tried to remove all the background material with two validation errors still listed from that supplement, have no idea where they are. Sent you a portfolio copy for your records.
"According to the module the water should only be 10 ft deep, but that leaves a large sized creature unable to swim up or down? Nope, not happening. *** The first module I ever ran, put a Huge-sized creature in a 15 x 15 ft room. Think about it. Hint: A huge-sized creature occupies a space 15 ft by 15 ft. The doors to the room were not even big enough for it to get in the room in the first place!?!? Was the room built around the creature?"
Obviously somebody had placed the creature in the room while it was a juvenile, then fed it until it grew. Avoids all the apparent problems.
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So, according to the aquatic rules, creatures under the water have full cover from attacks on land unless “freedom of movement” effects are involved. I am struggling to find rules on attacks from underwater to targets on land, which it looks like may happen if Uriel moves through the threatened area of shark-man.
Of course, the rules don’t actually make sense...a guy with a longspear underwater can stab a guy on land just like a guy on land can stab a guy underwater—the surface of the water can distort the images, but that is concealment, not cover, it doesn’t stop the spear at the surface of the water.
The silence of the rules for attacking from underwater onto land make it kind of hard to judge. If the surface of the water counts as total cover as the rules suggest, attacks cannot be made through it, so that seems kind of strange.
How do you want to handle it, Stormstrider?
... How do you want to handle it, Stormstrider?
The dining room closes at 10, and the drive thru at 12. We normally clock out about 12:30-12:45. Tonight we all clocked out at 1:39 AM.
How do I want to handle it? Your asking me to And this about a question that I myself have asked before and never found an actual answer for it? So, the answer is ... I don't. (want to handle it!) *** Read on ...
TLDR: I don't want to handle it. I guess I'll have to handle the situation somehow since I am the DM huh? ;-)
It is actually a very good question. I am certainly open to hearing (reading) ideas from the rest of the players. What I will do in the meantime is consult with other DM's I know and my tabletop group on Sunday as well, and see what I can learn. This is however going to take some time to figure something out, so please be patient with me.
Also, tomorrow - actually later today, or more specifically Sunday (whatever crap shit day it is!) Is my tabletop game, and I will have to leave that early to go to the torture chamber (work) from 5-close again, so I would not expect any answers until Monday at the earliest. I am supposed to be off Monday, but since I called out sick Friday, who knows?
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Obviously somebody had placed the creature in the room while it was a juvenile, then fed it until it grew. Avoids all the apparent problems.
I HAVE to say thank you!!! That moment of laughter and hilariousness(?), combined with a perfectly logical thought process, sure brightened up my day! :-D
Made me think of both Spock & Data from Star Trek, and they are two of my favorite characters from those shows, so that is to be considered a HUGE compliment!
Had internet outage/issues today at home, but finally seem to be resolved, so here goes hopefully!
... Of course, the rules don’t actually make sense ...
I fully agree with Uriel. Although - From some things I have read I think that those rules are assuming water in a river/lake type of situation and that said water is muddy or unclear. For example, some parts of the module have actually stated that in room 'X' the water is clear enough to not provide cover! However, I do believe that something being under clear water is usually distorted from view, especially for people not used to looking at something through/under said water.
I have discussed this with other sources as well, and with Uriel through private channels to some degree. Here is my suggestion (And Uriel should find this very familiar sounding as most of it was his idea, but it was also what I was leaning towards!):
I would say if you are just under or just over the surface of the water, you can thrust through the water with a weapon as long as it is piercing and within normal range for the weapon, at like a 20% miss chance due to partial concealment from distortion at the water’s surface.
If it isn’t piercing, I would say the water slows it down as it passes through, causing the 1/2 damage thing (unless you have a way to overcome that).
And it becomes worse if you are trying to thrust with a reach weapon through more than 5 ft of water.
How does that sound to everyone?
I think the rules under discussion are-
"Attacks from Land: Characters swimming, floating, or treading water on the surface, or wading in water at least chest deep, have improved cover (+8 bonus to AC, +4 bonus on Reflex saves) from opponents on land. Land-bound opponents who have freedom of movement effects ignore this cover when making melee attacks against targets in the water. A completely submerged creature has total cover against opponents on land unless those opponents have freedom of movement effects. Magical effects are unaffected except for those that require attack rolls (which are treated like any other effects) and fire effects."
"Total Cover
If you don’t have line of effect to your target (that is, you cannot draw any line from your square to your target’s square without crossing a solid barrier), he is considered to have total cover from you. You can’t make an attack against a target that has total cover."
As Uriel says the rules don't make sense. They also seem to be totally excessive. Treading water makes you as hard to hit as being behind an arrow slit? What rot. And being submerged makes it impossible to attack you? What?
My suggestion- If the water is reasonably clear-
Treat being partially in water as partial cover.
Treat being submerged as cover.
If the water is near opaque-
Treat being partially in water as cover.
Treat being submerged as improved cover.
If you are attacking someone on land from in the water, treat them as having partial cover.
It is fairly simple and makes it harder but not near impossible to attack foes in water. And gives a modest penalty to attacks coming the other way.
Just checking in and saying, I will flow with the consensus on how to handle this.
Heads-up: Car trouble tonight. Belt that affects Power Steering (at the very least, possibly more?) came completely off. I'll be having to get up early AM to contact insurance since the Roadside Assistance Dispatch could not find me in their system after 15 minutes of trying. Then arrange to get my car towed to the mechanic as well as call the mechanic.
So, I'm sorry, but I gotta get to bed and try to get some sleep tonight, as I won't be getting much in the morning, and I have to be at work by 4 pm to close again.
I told a friend that the 'jump-off-ledge' is looking mighty friendly right now.
Stormstrider- this is the post where I changed.
"Boudacia Cackles [move action], transforms into a bat [Bat Shape feat, standard action] and takes a five foot step forward [miscellaneous action]."
I said clearly I was transforming into a bat, quoted the feat Bat Shape, which you don't need to shape change to get one of the benefits you mentioned, and shrunk my ikon. As far as I can recall when I have used the shape change ability to assume a bestial form, gaining one of several benefits, I have always specified which.
Come to think of it, I should start having the +1 to AC up at all times I am not worried about not looking human. Like when In the spire.