The Devil's Gorge (and Beyond)!

Game Master Rynjin

I know what you mean about beginner adventures. A little more than a year ago my family started playing with the beginner box. We moved on to owning the core rulebook and gradually using the rules about 2 months later. I think we've implemented pretty much everything now, except CMB/CMD. (It's not that they're forbidden, we just have never tried using them.) Now my 8 year old wants to try GMing, and I'm not sure whether to have him use beginner box rules, or regular.

And yes, this particular adventure looks very good for a beginner adventure. I think there's more depth and more reason to follow the plot than many of Paizo's adventures have. Since DSP wrote the adventure to show off/teach their rules, I'm expecting it to be a very good introduction.

I just realized that I haven't posted Chirrup's stats anywhere, and you may need them soon. His natural attack is bite +10, doing 1d3+1d6electrical. He has AC 18, 41 HP, and DR5/adamantine, resistance 10 to cold and fire, vulnerability to electricity. He also has a potion installed, giving him the effect of a 'shield' spell.

Is that AC 18 with or without the Shield?

The AC 18 is without Shield.

Donovan Egoblade wrote:

BTW... Why would he appear by the fire? Instead of next to one of us?

Because he can teleport 30 ft. at-will, but 60 ft. takes precious resources. =) The plan was to use Stance of the Ether Gate to get out of the cave, and then Fading Strike to smack Dorla again and zap off. Your readied action, however, presented him with a more immediate threat in yourself, so he decided to try ad take you out of the fight for a round.

BTW, I forgot to address this yesterday, since I was on my phone and copy/pasting there is annoying... -.-'

But... You know... You didn't have to give me this information. My character wouldn't know any of that, anyway... What I meant with my question was if Silverback was trying to do something that we could see him doing or deduce what he was trying to do by his action/positions, like putting out the fire, drinking a potion or something.

Basically, I wasn't sure if I missed a description of his actions or if maybe you forgot to add it. I didn't intend to learn his motivations/plans... Other than what I can deduce from his behavior, attitude and actions, of course.

I don't see any reason not to give you that information. I suppose I could have asked for a Knowledge (Martial) check but Donovan HAS Veiled Moon Maneuvers, he knows their limits.

And I DID tell you what you could deduce: He's been laser focused on Dorla this whole time. She's his primary target currently, you and Thetsu are just in his way ATM.

Well... If you want to tell us I don't mind. I'm just saying you don't have to do it if you think it'd be too out-of-character for us to know or something.

I was just afraid you'd think I was demanding some sort of metagame information with my question.

Nah. If I don't want you to know something, I just won't tell you (until after the fight, anyway). Like what Silverback is up to while he's chilling out inside the cave.

We're going to keep at this for hours, aren't we... ¬¬'

Where is everyone? :/

Do Bombs allow saving throws? If that wasn't a saving throw... Could we get a little more description of what he did?

I think I missed because of his AC. Then he got a saving throw for half damage on the splash damage. There's a rogue ability that can make that no damage on a successful save.

I see... I didn't remember if the splash damage from a off-target Alchemist's Bombs allowed a Ref saving throw.

Yeah. Direct hits don't, but the splash does. And then he took the Evasion Stalker Talent.

Ok.

BTW, please note the EDIT of my last gameplay post.

(Also, how do I regain psionic focus)?

By spending a Full-Round action to get it back (or a Move action with the Psionic Meditation Feat).

He can extend it however often he wants, but only use it as a weapon while extended 3 times per day.

...

I... What??? How??? Why???

Because that makes it a similar (but better) version of the Long Arm Bracers. It has no attack penalty and the Reach is 5 ft. longer.

But how can it extend but not be usable as a weapon, it's literally just a blunt object! What's the in-world justification? This... Actually bothers me more than it should. :P

Now, this doesn't bother me much, but why 3 rounds? That's not even a whole combat. Even boots of speeds works 10 rounds a day. Sure, this setup might be similar in design to an "official" item... But is that design worth following?

But how can it extend but not be usable as a weapon, it's literally just a blunt object! What's the in-world justification? This... Actually bothers me more than it should. :P

Now, this doesn't bother me much, but why 3 rounds? That's not even a whole combat. Even boots of speeds works 10 rounds a day. Sure, this setup might be similar in design to an "official" item... But is that design worth following?

Magic yo. Psionics yo.

I think so. Tripling your Reach for a round is pretty hefty.

It's not meant to be something you use constantly, just when you really need it. Kind of like the Lunge Feat, or a backup Thrown weapon.

But why can it be used as a blunt weapon only 18 seconds a day? Does it mysteriously become spaghetti-like the every other time it extends?

I know it's petty... But this one actually bugs me... :P

(Additionaly, getting extra range is nice... But is it 3x better than Haste? The main advantage of reach is getting AoO and doing things without provoking... The latter is pretty limited if used only 3 times/day... The former is pretty much neutered).

That said, the mechanics don't bother me nearly as much as the "logical flaw" of a blunt weapon only being usable as a blunt weapon a few seconds per day, though... :P

Well, it's still a +1/+1 Qarterstaff the rest of the day.

Think of it like this: A 15 ft. staff (actually, 30 ft. staff, it's a double weapon and both ends get Reach) is too unwieldy to be used as a weapon. Unless there's psionic voodoo helping you wield it. Once the juice has run out, you're outta luck.

Would it make you feel better if I let it be used as a Huge sized quarterstaff instead the rest of the time?

Thetsu wold be physically incapable of wielding it without being Enlarged or similar then though.

On a different note, what did you guys think of this "arc"? Since it' basically wrapped up with Silverback's incapacitation.

Too long? too short? Not enough twists and turns? Did the ones that existed suck?

How was the final fight? Just the right amount of frustrating, or too much? I'm personally impressed how well a lone enemy did against the three of you.

And finally: Should I recruit a new player for this game before we leave this area?

Path of War op.

*begins taking Martial Training feats*

Septid is throwing together a Psion though I think he got bogged down by all the potential powers ha.

Speaking of Feats, I think now is a good time for all of you to get your first level up. Two adventures under your belt, treasure reclaimed, assassin killed, and all that good stuff. So welcome to level 9!

Well, it's still a +1/+1 Qarterstaff the rest of the day.

Think of it like this: A 15 ft. staff (actually, 30 ft. staff, it's a double weapon and both ends get Reach) is too unwieldy to be used as a weapon. Unless there's psionic voodoo helping you wield it. Once the juice has run out, you're outta luck.

Well... I guess that kinda works as an explanation... It's not very satisfying (to me), but it's something, I suppose.

Would it make you feel better if I let it be used as a Huge sized quarterstaff instead the rest of the time?

Like I said, I don't particularly care about the mechanics. I was just trying to imagine how the hell it works in-game... Like... What are our characters actually seeing when the staff is used.

Like the Power Pole from Dragonball.

Like the Power Pole from Dragonball.

See... That's the problem. Goku could use it as an weapon all the time, even when extended.

But nevermind... This is just a particularly petty pet peeve of mine. ><'

Since it seems inappropriate to post it in the Gameplay thread ATM, Silverback's loot that Thetsu finds on his corpse:

-A +2 Savage Dagger (and one more that Donovan has).
-4 Masterwork Savage Daggers
-+2 Mithral Chain Shirt
-3 doses of Deathblade Poison, still in their vials.

What does Savage do?

"Savage Dagger" is just what I named the variant 1d6 damage 18-20/x2 crit rate + extra goodies dagger I built with Lemmy's weapon building thing.

Is there a way that I can spend the feat to get trapfinding, or do I need to take one level in unchained rogue for this? I don't really need the bonus to perception, but I do badly want the ability to disarm magic traps. If I do just take a level in unchained rogue, can I beg and plead for Chirrup to advance based on my total levels, not just alchemist levels?

You could have taken the Trait (Trap Finder) if you wanted to trade out one of your existing Traits instead.

A Feat (Additional Traits) would get you that plus another Trait.

There's a trait for that, actually... :)

EDIT: Ninja'd by the GM... 41 seconds... ><'

Quick aside, I just realized I made a mistake with this combat. Apparently, Counters cannot block Natural 20's, so Donovan would have been able to Disarm Silverback earlier. All it would change is he'd take a -1 to-hit and -2 damage though, so I don't think anything changed overall.

Also, no opinions on this arc? Nobody has mentioned anything about it OR the fight besides the Power Pole. =p

I want to know partially to see what plans are going forward. In particular, if you'd be interested in tracking down Silverback's employer.

Dorla's 'emotional investment' in this arc is over, and it was satisfying. I would like to go back to town and finish up the key to Chirrup with the Vanaran students before going on to something new. Also, I should purchase some stuff after the level up, and probably have a few days for crafting and things, which also would make going back to town make sense. We also should probably collect our reward.

I would be interested in tracking down Silverback's employer, but would need an in character reason to do that. It could be as simple as an offer of reward from the Baron. Also, at least a little crawl through a trapped dungeon would be fun as part of whatever we do next.

I think the level of annoyance with Silverback's tactics was just right. It was enough to add to the tension and wanting to get him, but not enough to be discouraging.

Definately a sneaky GM tactic to make him insist on going after the squishiest party member (other than Chirrup, of course). Well, maybe Thetsu is just as squishy, but at least he's built for melee.

Hmmmm. Single enemy combat can be annoying because it needs to be either difficult to hit or the opportunity presents itself infrequently. Thus I was unable to contribute till you started playing softball.

Would have been cool if he had a couple of accomplices with him.

Any objections to Dorla learning the (somewhat obscure spell Trapfinder's Focus as a solution to the trap issue? And can it be made into a potion? It does have range personal and is alchemist level 2 spell.

Hmmmm. Single enemy combat can be annoying because it needs to be either difficult to hit or the opportunity presents itself infrequently. Thus I was unable to contribute till you started playing softball.

Would have been cool if he had a couple of accomplices with him.

Though I am just a beatstick so I take full responsibility for not being able to do my job properly.

I have no major complaints about the adventure... Just a couple minor complaints.

- I really dislike a particular NPC and have no intention of associating with him ever again. In fact, I'd rather leave this town ASAP, since I have no interest in it. That goes both in-character and out-of-character. The only reason Donovan was here was to help Thetsu and Dorla survive the battle.

- The final battle wasn't unfair, just a bit... boring. Readying actions every turn is simply not very fun. The combat was somewhat harder than it should be before you decided to put on the kids gloves... But that was mostly because of poor player choices (I intend to mock Scavion/Thetsu for completely missing the point of smoking someone out and actually going in into the very place we smoked. :P) and Invisibility... Invisibility is one of those things that either you have a counter specifically made for it, or you lose. There is no middle ground. Donovan was the only one that could counter it, but had no means of sharing the benefits of that counter.

All that said... I don't think the combat was unfair. We should have expected invisibility and taken precautions against it. We didn't.

@Dorla: Aram Zey's Focus is cool with me.

And I agree on the readying being a bit boring, but that was the only tactic that made sense for an assassin IMO. If any of you had certain lockdown options it eould have been easier to stop, but those are kinda niche.

I feel like the part I really lost you was when he spent two turbs revovering Maneuvers and Discarding Steel Serpent stuff and drawing Veiled Moon attacks to get around Dorla's poison resistance.

Which she foolishly outright told him she had. =p

To be honest, the moment he teleported away the first time, I knew the encounter would be boring. Because PF is a turn-based game and there are very few actions that you can use out of your turn, fighting an invisible teleporting enemy becomes more of a guessing game than a tactical one.

It doesn't help that it's pretty much impossible to lock down teleport without spell-casting, though. I could entangle him with dirty trick, but even if I did, he could just teleport away and repeat... So there was no point in even trying.

But again, I don't think the encounter was unfair or impossibly difficult. Just boring... And we, the PCs, share the blame as well.

When did I tell him about poison resistance?

Crap. I got confused with the Alchemist from the Age of Worms game I'm in.

"I'm an Alchemist, I put worse things in my body for fun every day!"

Ah, it sounds like an easy thing to mistake, especially when I did make an out of character comment about poison resistance.

BTW, I just realized I might have sounded a bit too harsh in my last post... It wasn't my intention. I don't think the last encounter was poorly designed or unfair. What made it boring is... Well... The way Pathfinder (and most turn-based games, actually) deal with hit-and-run tactics and immediate actions.

I kinda wish we could "save" part of our movement speed and use it as an immediate action or something. This way, intercepting enemies would be more viable and fun.

It's something I have to consider for a possible future houserule. :\

Hm. Why don't we run with something like that and see how it works out then?

Let's say you can move up to half your movement speed on a Readied action, instead of just a 5 ft. step.

Hm. Why don't we run with something like that and see how it works out then?

Let's say you can move up to half your movement speed on a Readied action, instead of just a 5 ft. step.

That's... something, I guess?

It makes readied actions stronger, but only slightly more versatile and not at all more interesting or fun. They are still a boring guessing game... Only now you can move an extra 5 or 10 ft if you guess right.

I was thinking about adding something that adds... interactivity and meaningful decision making, but I have no idea how to do it.

I'm just messing around with ideas... I don't really think it's necessary to add any additional house rules.