Barbarian help


Advice


Ill post it here since I cant find specific class subforums to post in.

Also; is there a site where I can upload a character sheet or build one online so I can link the character rather than have to type it out here?

Im starting a game where Im playing a barbarian, and Im playing an Armored Hulk archetype with a +1 keen greatsword. So far what I have for him as far as rage powers/feats/traits is

Rage power:
Guarded Life
Lesser Elemrntal Rage

Feats:
Ferocious Tenacity, Furious Focus, Power Attack

Traits:
Dominator (belkzen)
Demented Inventor

Im looking to make him hard to kill, hence the armored hulk, guarded life, and furious tenacity, and to augment his ability with the greatsword (as we're playing kingmaker and we've been warned that we wont be seeing magic items much by our DM). The next feat I plan on taking will be Vital Strike. What feats should I be looking for? What are known as the "best" damaging feats for the Barbarian? There are so freaking many choices, I tend to get swamped with them and then miss primely useful things that I dont ever find out till later I should have taken and Ive never had the option of a forum like this to be able to ask these questions on.


Also; my weapon is currently a +1 Keen Greatsword.
Which is really better in the end, Keened Greataxe (1D12+ str 19-20 x3) or keened Greatsword (2D6+str 17-20 x2)


Ppl will tell you vital is a trap go beast totem rage powers and pounce by level 10.this is the accepted optimal choice for damage. Also get power attack.


This sort of thread should be in the Advice forum. I've flagged it, so a mod will (hopefully) move it there shortly.

I can't comment on best damaging feats for the barbarian, but Raging Vitality is a pretty good defensive feat, since it prevents you from dying when you fall unconscious and your rage ends.


I won't be the first one to say it . . .
I won't be the first one to say it . . .
I won't be the first one to say it . . .
(fails will save)

For a Barbarian tank, have you looked into unbreakable fighter 1/urban invulnerable rager x? Wear heavy armor, lose everything that relies on you not wearing heavy armor, can soak up damage with DR awesomeness/-- at higher levels, and not nearly as reliant on equipment as most other martial classes are?

Shadow Lodge

Many players would prefer the greatsword high crit range lets you take advantage of the critical feats at high levels, which give your enemies negative conditions when you confirm a critical. On the other hand, it's really fun to confirm a crit with a higher multiplier.

Vital Strike is not generally a great feat. I've seen it work very well in one particular build, but normally you will get more mileage out of a full attack, especially since as a barbarian a lot of your damage is probably coming from a high Str bonus and Power Attack, not the weapon damage dice.

Raging Vitality is very good for a barbarian since more Con in rage is always helpful and it protects you from dying when you fall unconscious, stop raging, and lose your rage HP.

If you're worried about lack of magic items and have extra feats, you might consider taking Master Craftsman (Weaponsmith) and Craft Magic Arms and Armour - this will get you improve your own sword. I haven't played Kingmaker but I hear you get plenty of downtime for crafting. Not a great choice for a noncaster, though, because of the Craft skill requirement/limitation and the fact that it costs two feats. Only something to look into if you find you're hurting for lack of gear.


Vital Strike only makes sense under two circumstances:

1) your GM's tactical style makes melee full-attacks less common
2) a significant majority of your damage is coming from the damage dice of a single attack (usually applicable to monsters with a big size category and a single powerful natural attack).

The ability to pounce with the beast totem makes vital strike largely redundant for such a barbarian, since you shouldn't be deprived of your full attack very often.


Improved Iron Will and/or other Save boosts/re-rolls (Clear Mind Rage Power)
+ OR Superstitious (which enables things like Ghost Rager and Witch Hunter)
Blind Fight
Lunge (avoid AoOs from non-improved maneuvers that are situationally useful, surprise enemies who thought they were safe just outside of your reach, etc)
Cleave
Improved Bullrush->Rhino Charge (Sargava Companion, ready Partial Charges)
...I can't remember the name, but there's a feat to trade AC for bonus to melee attacks...

Knockback/Strength Surge
Unexpected Strike
Animal Fury

and carry a bow, even if you aren't amazing at it.

greatsword > greataxe IMHO


Vital Strike mostly is weak, your weapon will do best at it, but don't take more than the 1st Feat.


Quandary wrote:
...I can't remember the name, but there's a feat to trade AC for bonus to melee attacks...

There's the rage power Reckless Abandon

Quandary wrote:
greatsword > greataxe IMHO

The greatsword does slightly more damage,* but it's main advantage, IMHO, is that it crits more often, leading to more consistent damage. (The 2d6 is also more consistent than the 1d12, but a good chunk of your damage as a barbarian should be coming from strength and power attack, so that matters less.)

* Boring math stuff: the crit stuff (19-20 x3 vs 17-20 x2) turns out to effect the dpr equally, so the only difference between the weapons is the 0.5 average damage difference between 2d6 and 1d12


buddahcjcc wrote:
Im looking to make him hard to kill (...) we're playing kingmaker (...) What feats should I be looking for?

I also playing a barbarian (Invulnerable rager) in the kingmaker kampagne. I think the Invulnerable Rage is a better tank.

Please post your abilitys (and race) so that we can give better hints ;-)

If you have 15+ CON take

Raging Vitality:
Raging vitality

While raging, you are full of vigor and health.

Prerequisites: Con 15, rage class feature.

Benefit: Whenever you are raging, the morale bonus to your Constitution increases by +2. Your rage does not end if you become unconscious. While unconscious you must still expend rounds of rage per day each round.

Conundrum wrote:
get power attack.

YES! And for the first Lvls take

Furious Focus (Combat):

Even in the midst of fierce and furious blows, you can find focus in the carnage and your seemingly wild blows strike home.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, BAB +1.
Benefit: When you are wielding a two-handed weapon or a one-handed weapon with two hands, and using the Power Attack feat, you do not suffer Power Attack’s penalty on melee attack rolls on the first attack you make each turn. You still suffer the penalty on any additional attacks, including attacks of opportunity."

Lvl 6+ take

Cornugon Smash:
Prerequisites: Power Attack, Intimidate 6 ranks.

Benefit: When you damage an opponent with a Power Attack, you may make an immediate Intimidate check as a free action to attempt to demoralize your opponent.

If you are a (half-)orc there a some other nice feats for you.

You can also take a 4 Lvl dipp in Dragon Disciple Prestiege Class (for +2 AC and +4 STR)


Quandary wrote:

Improved Iron Will and/or other Save boosts/re-rolls (Clear Mind Rage Power)

+ OR Superstitious (which enables things like Ghost Rager and Witch Hunter)
Blind Fight
Lunge (avoid AoOs from non-improved maneuvers that are situationally useful, surprise enemies who thought they were safe just outside of your reach, etc)
Cleave
Improved Bullrush->Rhino Charge (Sargava Companion, ready Partial Charges)
...I can't remember the name, but there's a feat to trade AC for bonus to melee attacks...

Knockback/Strength Surge
Unexpected Strike
Animal Fury

and carry a bow, even if you aren't amazing at it.

greatsword > greataxe IMHO

I hadnt added Cleave because I have an ac 20 to start with, raging its already dropping to 18, adding cleave drops it to 16

Bearded Ben wrote:
Quandary wrote:
...I can't remember the name, but there's a feat to trade AC for bonus to melee attacks...

There's the rage power Reckless Abandon

Quandary wrote:
greatsword > greataxe IMHO

The greatsword does slightly more damage,* but it's main advantage, IMHO, is that it crits more often, leading to more consistent damage. (The 2d6 is also more consistent than the 1d12, but a good chunk of your damage as a barbarian should be coming from strength and power attack, so that matters less.)

* Boring math stuff: the crit stuff (19-20 x3 vs 17-20 x2) turns out to effect the dpr equally, so the only difference between the weapons is the 0.5 average damage difference between 2d6 and 1d12

I chose Greatsword over axe because in non critical applications it will do one damage more. You cant roll just one on 2D6

Ability scores:
Str: 20
Dex: 12
Con: 15
Int: 12 (took this for literacy)
Wis: 11
Cha: 10

lol I listed Furious Focus and Power attack in the OP :D

Whats cornugon Smash from? I dont see it on my hero labs

I also took Armor expert (couldnt find anything better at the time) and
Linebreaker (Belzken) as traits
So my base speed is 40/35 - That IS 40 charcging 35 normally right? Because my base speed was 35 before I got linebreaker


buddahcjcc wrote:


Ability scores:
Str: 20
Dex: 12
Con: 15
Int: 12 (took this for literacy)
Wis: 11
Cha: 10

-> Human? (as drow you should take a dipp in the pain taster prestiege class)

Con 15 --> take Raging Vitality! It´s better then the listed rage powers

buddahcjcc wrote:
Whats cornugon Smash from? I dont see it on my hero labs

Link -> D20pfsrd --> Pathfinder Companion: Cheliax, Empire of Devils


Barbarians aren't illiterate anymore.


Der Origami Mann wrote:
buddahcjcc wrote:


Ability scores:
Str: 20
Dex: 12
Con: 15
Int: 12 (took this for literacy)
Wis: 11
Cha: 10

-> Human? (as drow you should take a dipp in the pain taster prestiege class)

Con 15 --> take Raging Vitality! It´s better then the listed rage powers

buddahcjcc wrote:
Whats cornugon Smash from? I dont see it on my hero labs

Link -> D20pfsrd --> Pathfinder Companion: Cheliax, Empire of Devils

Half Orc


rage powers: Beast totems line and superstitious.

Feats: power attack

Weapon: something that you hold with both hands

Congrats you made an optimized barbar!


That's what I told him earlier. Barbarian is so simple it's ridiculous how much you get for so little effort. The perfect beginner class for any future munchkin!


Not taking Cleave because you're afraid of the -2 AC penalty while you will be wearing Heavy Armor is ridiculous, seriously. You aren't using Cleave most of the time, and when you do, chances are you are dropping at least one of the opponents, which is usually more important than 2 AC. If you want more AC, taking Rolling Dodge or other means, if you worry about 2 AC while Cleaving, you probably should want more AC all the time regardless. You're already a Barbarian with a decent CON and a ton of HPs, taking the recommended Raging Vitality Feat increases that further, so if you happen to get hit you should have the HPs: If you go Invulnerable Barb for more DR you have even less worry there. Being able to Cleave when Moving + Standard Attacking (or Slowed/Sickened/limited to a Standard) is a very useful ability, at low levels you should be one-shotting most enemies, and at higher levels the additional hit will still be dropping enemies (whether mooks, or already damaged tougher enemies). First targetting things like Mounts or Familiars (easy to hit) is just bonus damage.

Oh, once you can easily afford it, get Armor Spikes, they're really cheap and even if you have a Bite while Raging (Animal Fury), they're useful because sometimes you can't Rage.


Conundrum wrote:
That's what I told him earlier. Barbarian is so simple it's ridiculous how much you get for so little effort. The perfect beginner class for any future munchkin!

He's already taking the Elemental Totem line though. Beast Totem isn't the be-all/end-all of Barbarian builds, there's plenty of very strong builds that don't go there, I don't think it should be shoved in every newbies face as 'the' way to build a Barbarian. EDIT: For all the people that hype up Beast Totem for Pounce, I never seem to see them mentioning that you can't always Charge all the time. Difficult Terrain like Black Tentacles shuts that down. AoOs also can put a crimp on that tactic.


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Unbreakable-Fighter
Dip 1 lvl for Die Hard & Endurance
Dip 2 lvl in the unbreakable for an extra feat
Dip 3 lvl for full speed in med. Armor, ACP-1 and MaxDex+1,

buddahcjcc wrote:
Half Orc

Sunder

If you like sundering things try Destroyer's Blessing to get Ragerounds and HP back. Take Improved sunder so that you don´t provoke AoO and get a +2 on sunderattacks. On lvl 6 take Greater sunder and any excess damage is applied to the item's wielder. You can take Smash to get an other +5 Bonus on sundering objects.

With Ragecycle (Ragepowers 1/rage):
Ground-breaker- and greater Ground Breaker-ragepower are nice to controll groups.
Also take Smasher-Ragepowerr to ignore the hardness.

Shadow Lodge

Quandary wrote:
He's already taking the Elemental Totem line though. Beast Totem isn't the be-all/end-all of Barbarian builds, there's plenty of very strong builds that don't go there, I don't think it should be shoved in every newbies face as 'the' way to build a Barbarian. EDIT: For all the people that hype up Beast Totem for Pounce, I never seem to see them mentioning that you can't always Charge all the time. Difficult Terrain like Black Tentacles shuts that down.

Dragon Style drastically cuts down on the situations in which you can't charge. Very handy for a Beast Totem barbarian.

I agree that the other totems deserve more consideration, though. I'd love to see some builds that really take advantage of them - I'm particularly interested by the Celestial Totem from Champions of Purity.


and beast totem is basicly 3 feats for pounce wich is a hard price to pay

unless you mainly use natural weapons

the bonus to armor is negated mainly by charging and raging AC is not realy somthing you work on.

i must be honest I had a barb but the times i was able to charge was minimal! you need a straight line without anny thing in between no friendlies no tables/chairs no gaps no dificult terain.

and this is the case more often than not!


By the time you get pounce, you should be able to have access to fly somehow. The flight will allow you to ignore most issues.


Im seeing something odd in Hero Labs and I want to see why Im seeing that...

The claw attack from lesser beast totem says you do 1D6 (if medium) plus STR modifier.
With a 24 STR, that should be 1D6+7 but in Hero Labs I'm seeing 1D6+3

Is that a Hero Labs issue or is there a reason Im doing less damage (I switched out lesser elemental for beast)

Grand Lodge

buddahcjcc wrote:

Im seeing something odd in Hero Labs and I want to see why Im seeing that...

The claw attack from lesser beast totem says you do 1D6 (if medium) plus STR modifier.
With a 24 STR, that should be 1D6+7 but in Hero Labs I'm seeing 1D6+3

Is that a Hero Labs issue or is there a reason Im doing less damage (I switched out lesser elemental for beast)

You most likely still have your weapons equipped. When weapons are welded all natural weapons become secondary, doing only half Str.


Quandary wrote:
Conundrum wrote:
That's what I told him earlier. Barbarian is so simple it's ridiculous how much you get for so little effort. The perfect beginner class for any future munchkin!
He's already taking the Elemental Totem line though. Beast Totem isn't the be-all/end-all of Barbarian builds, there's plenty of very strong builds that don't go there, I don't think it should be shoved in every newbies face as 'the' way to build a Barbarian. EDIT: For all the people that hype up Beast Totem for Pounce, I never seem to see them mentioning that you can't always Charge all the time. Difficult Terrain like Black Tentacles shuts that down. AoOs also can put a crimp on that tactic.

@ Quandary no Beast isn't the only way that is part of my point ... mix n match rage powers at the end of the day barbarian still rocks. Simple.Newb.Class.


Dragonstyle also lets you charge through allies. Combine with the overbearing rage powers and improved and greater overrun woo-who!

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