Rappan Athuk: The Dungeon of Graves (Inactive)

Game Master Alice Margatroid

Raymond E. Feist is the Betrayal at Krondor guy, isn't he? I played that game a LOT as a kid. I can't say I ever read any of his books, though. Maybe I should someday.

Yep, that's the one. I never played the game, but read a bunch of his books. It's been a loooong time, but definitely enjoyed them.

Feel free to continue on whenever you're ready, all.

EDIT: Oh, yes, Raseri, I'll give you your three rumours. (Everyone pretend you didn't hear the ones Varnos had!) I also updated the rumours page with all your rumours. If you read it before, uhhh, it seems I accidentally made the page I was using to sort through potential applicants I liked with rumours that suited them public. Please forget everything you saw. ;)

Cool idea (in the main thread), I will later (when I am on home computer) create and update a page on OP with total party loot in terms of money. If someone wants to take some specific items/weapons from the stuff we have found so far, please state that specifically, otherwise I would consider that we simply leave all that "junk" behind.

If you want to take responsibility for the loot page, I'd appreciate that!

So far you've found 16 gold, 67 silver, and everyone has 333 XP. I'll give Raseri the same amount for ease of things (and technically she killed a gnoll by herself too... *grin*)

I am thinking we'll use the slow track for XP, but I'm not 100% decided on that just yet.

I've made just basic page, listing things found so far. We'll see how it goes. I've also added shortbow, 16 arrows and 1 battleaxe and 1 heavy wooden shield in the "party additional gear". For now it is quite small, so should be OK to say that it is spread evenly among us as to not to increase anyone's encumbrance. Later on, we might have to track this specifically.

As for XP, I fully support slow track (I like low-lvl. play)

This all sounds good to me. Olo would probably carry the extra arrows for anyone (he's not that strong, and it seems easy enough, plus he will always be away from melee ideally and therefore closer to an archer type).

Same here. I think Raseri's close to being Mediumly Encumbered, but I don't think that'll be a problem until it's time to head back.

Yes, I'm good with slow track too. Ninivic is also close to medium encumbered.

I don't track encumbrance by weight, so don't worry about that. It'll only come into play if you start trying to loot something like a giant statue or an entire dragon hoard, etc.

But all of us using Hero Lab will feel horribly guilty :)

That's what bags of holding are for. ;)

Do you guys really want me Taking 20 and searching every nook and cranny here, or do I simply make couple more rolls (my preferrence)? I am fine with whatever majority feels is better

I think Bryce should do a Take 20 check. This may be a place we return to frequently and how much would it suck that we miss something in this room that ends up killing us?

Also, can we use Perception to aid another? If so, that is what Olo would do (by pointing out something he might have missed, etc).

Considering this is a sandbox dungeon crawl, you can feel free to take 20 to search whenever you like (assuming there's no immediate threats) because there isn't really a time limiter. The only thing I'll warn you about is that there ARE wandering monsters, so the time you spend making sure that you're safe is potentially time for various critters to sneak up on you.

And yes you can use Perception to aid another, although not if he's taking 20 (aid another only applies a bonus to a single check, and taking 20 is taking effectively 20 checks)

Damn. I forgot that you're supposed to roll the DD check in secret. Probably should be rolling the Perception checks to search for traps in secret as well, come to think of it.

How about this: I'll make the assumption that everyone has a constant "passive perception" check of 10 + Perception mod while out of combat, and if you'd like to search in a particular area you are welcome to roll or take 20. Bryce will automatically get a bonus roll to notice traps with a DC higher than his passive perception when he goes near them but I'll roll that one for you.

That means Bryce spots the trap door as soon as he walks near the south-west alcove, actually... happy to let you ignore the 5-minute "take 20" thing there.

On DD checks, I assume you will want to disable any you come across, so I could roll that for you. Maybe I could put it in a spoiler tag so that if you (for whatever reason) DON'T want to try and disable the trap you can simply ignore it and specify that you didn't.

Alternatively you could roll your own DD checks and just not metagame I guess :) I'm okay with either honestly. I don't know why Disable Device checks are made in secret exactly - I mean, it only matters when you fail by 4 or less after all (since the trap will trigger on worse than that and be disabled on more than that)... it's just as metagamey as rolling a 1 on Perception checks is I guess.

EDIT: Note, I think that the passive perception should come into effect whenever you specify your character is on alert (basically all the time down in the dungeon of course). Obviously if you're distracted or not expecting to be disturbed your Passive Perception would be lower (5 + Perception mod instead)

I am perfectly fine with "passive perception". Since I am not very good in meta-gaming I would ask you to do the rolls for me (where/when applicable). Having said that - please feel free to roll for DD instead of me for south/western door. If I understood everything properly - results are that either I think I have disabled it (rolled above DC), did not disable it but I am aware of it (up to -4 to DC) or it simply "explodes" in my face, right?

Come to think of it - it really does not make sense, if I use RAW. My character would know for sure if it is:
1 - Success;
2 - Fail, but may try again or
3 - Fail (boom!)

Your character will know for sure about scenarios #1 and #3 (you touch the plate and the portcullis falls, or it does not...)

#2 is the iffy one. But considering you don't know trap DCs, I don't think there's even any metagaming problem there. If I tell you "Well you think you disabled it" and you step forward and then suddenly the portcullis falls down, you know that it's scenario #2...

The key thing about failing by 4 or less is that you don't know if you disabled it or not, and you can retry only if you know that you failed. So obviously if the portcullis falls down you know that you failed. But you could try again after that.

EDIT: so basically, roll for DD checks, roll for specifically searching an area checks (or take 20 if you desire)

I'm okay with the passive perception as well. I don't think DD will ever apply to me! :) Actually, given the lethality of this dungeon perhaps I should say it won't apply to Olo. In that case I prefer that these checks are rolled by you.

By passive perceptions, are you basicly offering the rogue talent Trapspotter for free? Whenever I take a rogue, it is without doubt the first talent I take, just for ease for myself and the GM; I've often thought it should be rolled into a rogue's abilities at first level. Rangers as well (though maybe on in their favored terrains).

Molasbar, one of my house rules is that the rogue's trapfinding ability is replaced by the trap spotter rogue talent, and that everyone with ranks in Disable Device can find/disable all kinds of traps. Makes rogues simultaneously more useful at finding traps (because they can just spot them when they walk by) and less necessary (because if you come across a magic trap you can deal with it despite not having trapfinding).

Passive Perception means that Bryce will notice every trap at DC 21 or below without having to roll for it constantly, and those traps that are DC 22+, he will get a bonus (secret) roll to notice it without searching. If you want to search a certain area more thoroughly, you can specify that you are doing so and roll (or take 20).

Two notes/questions for things that may come up in the near future.

1) As far as I understand it, you're currently relying on Olo's dancing lights spell for illumination. This is fine out of combat. In combat, I will roll 1d10 to randomly determine the amount of rounds left on the current casting of the spell, and on that round of combat the light will wink out and Olo will have to re-cast it for those who don't have darkvision. Obviously if you choose when to enter combat (ie. bust into the room on 3, 2, 1) he might have a chance to cast just before you enter and so have 10 rounds of it.

If you want a more reliable light source, I suggest investing in torches, lanterns, etc.

2) Marching order? I remember you all discussing this earlier, but it might have changed since now that you're in the dungeon. So I'd like to know marching order for:

- 10 ft. wide hallway
- 5 ft. wide hallways

Reginald will trail behind Ninivic or Bryce (depending on who is scouting at the time) at a distance of 10' as long as a given space allows it. In a 10' hallway, he could walk alongside Raseri or someone else who would prefer to be on the front line with him. In a 5' hallway, he has no problem taking the front position ahead of everyone else (except whomever is scouting).

In stealthy situations, he will wait for the scouting party to give him a signal. If remaining stationary isn't an option, he will fall back to the rear of the group so as not to blow everyone's cover. There's no way you're going to be quiet with Reggie following right behind our scouts, so I want to plan for those types of contingencies.

I propose something similar to what was already mentioned:

[Scout]
X
X
[Front Line]
[Mid-Range]
[Long Range/Rear Position]

So, if we used a format like that, it might be really easy and efficient if we used a system to reference the positions by simply labeling them in a template:

[1A,1B]
X
X
[2A, 2B]
[3A, 3B]
[4A, 4B]

That way you could easily change positions and everyone would know exactly where you are: ("Reginald moves from position 2A to position 4B for the next leg of the dungeon.") For a 5' hallway, you'd just eliminate the "B" positions in each tier and claim whatever alphanumeric slot you want.

In my case, I'd say that Reginald takes position 2A in both 5' and 10' hallways currently.

As for the light sources, Bryce has 2 torches and a hooded lantern (got to look up how does this work), so he can use those as needed.

As for marching order, I can go in any place you guys feel is right for me. Either "scout" position, or the "rear" position seem fine, although rear has an issue that my trap-spotting abilities are not utilized, while scout means I am giving away our position due to light source :-(

On the other hand, it does not seem fair to have Ninivic risk all and be on the "scout" position all of the time, so I guess Bryce and Ninivic will be changing places on point (scout) from time to time.

@Bryce

My only issue with this setup is that Reginald has a movement speed of 20'. If Ninivic gets caught, I would have to spend my entire first turn moving and I still might not be close enough to help.

I think Reggie is the only one who doesn't have ranged abilities, though. So, if we don't care too much about him getting to the fight on time, then this setup is fine.

You should've picked up that gnoll's shortbow... ;)

Actually, I think Bryce may have tracked it as being looted, so you can use that if you like.

@reginald - I like your "map", very concise :-)

As for the ranged abilities - we do have an additional short bow and 16 arrows (I keep in Obsidian Portal page). You could take/list those under your character, and should be able to use them. Although, someone may have already "taken" the arrows...

You should've picked up that gnoll's shortbow... ;)

Actually, I think Bryce may have tracked it as being looted, so you can use that if you like.

We posted more or less at the same time - hehehe, great minds think alike, eh? ;-)

I'm good trading off on the scouting, although unless we eventually come by a means for you to see in the dark, I'll need to take the ones where there isn't light.

I had Olo pick up the arrows just to disperse the load (he can't use them). So if we decided that Reginald has the shortbow it makes sense for him to have the arrows.

As far as the map, I would prefer Olo to be in the 3A or 3B positions. His hexes have a range of 30 feet so want to make sure I can get in position in the first round and hex someone.

Regarding light, what Alice says makes sense. In non-combat situations I would probably say once Olo is down to 2 lights he would cast again (standard to cast, move to keep along with the group). Assuming 2 lights would go out after 5 rounds (on average) we should have at least 5 rounds of light once a combat starts (again, on average).

Without any feat support and an unremarkable +2 to hit, I don't really think the shortbow would be all that useful in his hands! Plus, I'd have to spend some extra actions to get his flail and shield out after I fired my not-so-accurate potshot. xD

I'll have to accept the limitations of my build! Good with the bad, and all that. xD

So we are fighting a gelatinous cube.... what does everyone want to play for their next character? ;)

Hey, there's always the option to run away. :D

In fact, if you presume you can win every encounter in this dungeon, you will die. Fast. It pulls no punches.

EDIT: Actually, I'm considering adding a usage of the Sense Motive skill that I use in my home (heavily-homebrewed) games... I believe the usage comes from one of the 3.5e splat books somewhere.

Assess Opponent: You can use Sense Motive to size up your opponent and gauge how much of a challenge they may pose to you. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + your opponent's Hit Dice + your opponent's Charisma modifier. If your opponent is trained in Bluff, the DC is instead equal to 10 + your opponent's Bluff bonus, if higher. If you have seen the opponent in combat previously, you gain a +2 circumstance bonus on this check. If you succeed by 4 or less, you guess that the opponent is in one of two adjacent categories (i.e., they could either be "easy" or "evenly matched".) If you beat the DC by 5 or more, you narrow the result down to a single category. If you fail by 4 or less, you can't be sure and gain no useful information. If you fail by 5 or more, you may gain a false impression that the opponent is much stronger or weaker than they really are.

Opponent's CR . . . Result
4+ less than your HD . . . Pushover
1–3 less than your HD . . . Easy
Equal to your HD . . . Even
1–3 more than your HD . . . Tough
4+ more than your HD . . . Dangerous

Action: Assessing the threat an opponent poses is a standard action.

It might help with your immediate decisions to fight-or-flight. :)

Would you guys use this?

Yup!

I have never seen that use of Sense Motive - that is awesome! Makes the skill twice as valuable and makes me glad I have some ranks in it.

I love that idea. Knowledge checks help, but it really makes sense to have a mechanic that ties to the common sense to get the hell out. Having Sense Motive as a Wisdom-based skill makes total sense. It also makes a lot of sense for Ninivic as a character since I've envisioned him having that knack of staying out or getting out of trouble, but he's unlikely to invest much in Knowledge skills.

Excellent! I'm about to add it to the House Rules page now.

Also I love the vision of Reginald going ham on the cube. :P

Yeah, Reginald is a little crazy when it comes to fighting. He lives for the danger and he's too stubborn to admit defeat or retreat. I think that makes him a little dangerous (to himself and the party), but a strong ally in the face of an overwhelming foe. Of course, he may very well die for it, either now or in the future. I'm prepared for that!

Bryce, you can still make a move this round. The Reflex save is an instantaneous non-action kind of thing in place of an AoO.

Just edited my original post - I was waiting to see results of my save :-)

Do we take a -4 for future to hit attempt because it engulfed our fighter or...?

Hmm, I guess you would. We can flavour it as "trying not to hit Reginald".

That said, the ooze's AC by default is 4. I don't think you'll have problems hitting it even with the firing into melee penalty. :P

EDIT: On the other hand, Reginald is inside the ooze... If you were fighting a T-Rex that had swallowed him instead, you wouldn't take a penalty. I'm not sure now.

I wasn't sure either and included a -4 in my roll accordingly because it seemed logical, but now that I look at the combat section, I don't think it would be a -4 because he is immobilized.

Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. Two characters are engaged in melee if they are enemies of each other and either threatens the other. (An unconscious or otherwise immobilized character is not considered engaged unless he is actually being attacked.)

If your target (or the part of your target you're aiming at, if it's a big target) is at least 10 feet away from the nearest friendly character, you can avoid the –4 penalty, even if the creature you're aiming at is engaged in melee with a friendly character. If your target is two size categories larger than the friendly characters it is engaged with, this penalty is reduced to –2. There is no penalty for firing at a creature that is three size categories larger than the friendly characters it is engaged with.

Precise Shot: If you have the Precise Shot feat, you don't take this penalty.

I believe we've done about 46 damage to the cube so far. I don't think they have much more health than that (ballparking it from memory, so don't quote me on that). I say we should just focus on doing the most damage possible to it so that we can minimize the time that Reginald is being digested. Kill it!

50
no DR

And immune to the potential crit I just gave it. The dice be fickle.

Dayum that was fast.

Raseri... You have the best/worst luck I've ever seen. O_o

BTW, two things.

1) Olo, I noticed your Hex DC should be 14, not 15. The 1/2 level thing doesn't have a "minimum 1" clause, so it's 0 at 1st level. (Which makes sense, since it's basically mimicing a 1/2 HD ability like a monster's.)

2) The Sense Motive threat assessment check is NOT a free action. Currently I've got it pegged as a Standard action but I could be convinced to make it a Move action. Knowledge checks are free actions because they are things you either know or do not know. This check is different: you actually have to watch your target and try to determine its strength.

Essentially, an orc is pretty much the same as any other orc, and if you know what an orc is you can tell something is an orc even if it's a lowly grunt or a tribal shaman or a powerful barbarian warlord. But you won't know whether that's just a stock-standard orc or a level 12 barbarian orc unless you watch their movements for a little while.

You don't know the half of it. Next time we fight something that isn't immune crits, I probably won't be able to hit the board side of a barn!

All things considered, that was the smoothest level 1 party vs. gelatinous cube fight I have ever seen. I've witnessed some pretty horrendous cube related TPKs in my day. I got engulfed and only took 1 damage. There's NO way our luck can hold out much longer, haha.

I'll post after class. Reggie is out of commission for a little bit anyway. See you in a few hours. :)

That was awesome! I don't know that I've even seen a gelatinous cube since I played 1st edition. I'm loving this game.

But that being said, I need to let you know that I am about to go on a vacation. I leave tomorrow and will be back late on the 23rd, so it will be just over a week. I'm not sure if I will have any access to the internet; if I do, I'll jump in when I can. Can I ask you to DMPC Molasbar while I am away?

And I love the idea of Sense Motive as a threat assessment. I don't think it replaces the knowledge checks, but complements them nicely. It seems like a pretty sound "size them up" application of the skill.

2) The Sense Motive threat assessment check is NOT a free action. Currently I've got it pegged as a Standard action but I could be convinced to make it a Move action. Knowledge checks are free actions because they are things you either know or do not know. This check is different: you actually have to watch your target and try to determine its strength.

Essentially, an orc is pretty much the same as any other orc, and if you know what an orc is you can tell something is an orc even if it's a lowly grunt or a tribal shaman or a powerful barbarian warlord. But you won't know whether that's just a stock-standard orc or a level 12 barbarian orc unless you watch their movements for a little while.

Makes sense to me. I'll adjust accordingly next time. I may have run into one cube since first edition that was set up as more of a trap than monster, but I also loved seeing a throwback monster like that. Good times!

Alice - thanks for the clarity on Sense Motive as a standard - sorry if I missed that before. Makes sense that you have to do spend some time looking (which as a standard action means about 4 seconds?). In this case I'm glad I didn't get a chance because we (meaning everyone else since Olo didn't do anything) destroyed it!

Also, will edit and correct the spell DC.

And, I want to echo everyone else's sentiments - this game is awesome! I'm looking to try to be in one more campaign (2 will be my max) and as I look at recruitment threads I find myself wondering, "I wonder if they will be as good as Alice...." ;)

Yeah, I think 2 is probably the limit of what I have time to reliably post for. I actually really prefer live games or games over some kind of voice chat/maptool/etc, but finding good groups for those types of games is a lot harder than PbP. I had a consistent Friday group for a year straight that was awesome, but nothing lasts forever. That's actually how I found my way to this site.

Good luck with getting into your second game. Competition can be fierce!

Obsidian Portal page updated with loot and XP (600Xp everyone). Took the following:

- Five arrows (one is painted red, the rest are simply steel)
- 40 gold crowns (the local currency)
- A roughly-hewn palm-sized hunk of garnet.
- Two crossbow bolts from Bryce.

These I would leave behind, unless you say otherwise:
- A suit of chainmail (very shiny and polished, but somewhat sticky)
- A spearhead (useless without its shaft)