Drawing fire need clean up aisle 4
There are two types of Aid Another.
In combat, according to the rules at p. 197 of the Core Rulebook, Aid Another is identified as a standard action which may be used, in certain situations and when the aiding character makes a successful hit against an AC 10, to either grant an ally an untyped +2 bonus to hit on her next attack roll or an untyped +2 bonus to AC against a threatening opponent. The text also says that Aid Another may be used as a standard action to "help a friend in other ways, such as when he is affected by a spell, or to assist another character's skill check."
That last clause takes us back to p. 86, in the Skills chapter of the CRB. There, the rules states that characters may aid one another in skill checks by making a DC 10 check of the same type the aided character is attempting, granting an untyped +2 bonus to the aided character's check. Some limitations are placed on this action that aren't really applicable to your question.
So, you're essentially asking if you can Aid Another when an ally is rolling a Saving Throw.
I'm going to rule no, you cannot.
Though not explicitly defined as such in Pathfinder system, I interpret Saving Throws as non-actions. They are granted to characters (and sometimes items) automatically under certain circumstances, and no specific action (as defined in the action economy of standard, swift, move, etc) is required. Since the character making the saving throw isn't taking an action, there's nothing to "aid." Does that make sense?
I'm willing to entertain arguments to the contrary—that "such as when he is affected by a spell" clause is annoyingly non-specific—but I think that by both rules-as-written and rules-as-intended Aid Another cannot be used on saving throws.
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As to why it always has to be acrobatics, it doesn't! Sometimes it's climbing! ;)
I can see that will and fortitude saves are not action based but a reflex save is most certainly action based. In fact it has to be. It's definition would be:
Reflex: These saves test your ability to dodge area attacks and unexpected situations. Apply your Dexterity modifier to your Reflex saving throws.
Dodging is an action.
Though you are the GM and your ruling is law I just thought I would bring that up.
Oh sure, Manzcar, some physical act is taking place when a Reflex Save is thrown (ducking, flinching, what-have-you), but it's not an action as defined in the rules: a standard action, a move action, a swift action, a free action.
I agree which is what seems funny as it should be defined as a free action with regards to a game, but agree it is not defined as such so it all makes sense.
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So before you guys act, a small reminder.
Alys is at +2 AC and +2 to saves, plus various other thingies stated Here (let us simply hope we do not need those)
Manzcar, Travis and Jory have either a cumulative +2 on their first save and a continuous +1 to other saves for 1 minute; or a +1 on save for 1 minute and +1 on attack, skill check and alike (your choice - Guidance and Resistance)
La la la la dum dum LAAAAAA...
*ahem*
Oh WHERE, oh where can our halfling rogue be?
Oh WHERE, oh where can he BEEEEEE?
We need him to act so the goblins can go,
So bring back our halfling oh PLEEEEAAAASSSE!
Thank you!
I think he moves in an keeps distance from us but throws alch fire at a goblin. 8-)
I'll move for him if we don't hear from him by the time I get up tomorrow morning. I need to finish my prep for a run of Echoes of the Overwatched at the game store tonight anyway.
Um, sorry about that. But they all have splash weapons and wanted to hit as many people as possible, and there was an obvious way to do that. Yikes.
Okay, I've just determined that I've been doing something wrong with the splash weapon rules on misses. Not a huge deal and I'll correct it going forward, and say that for now the minor damage some of you took on the misses was a tradeoff for my not rolling the save on the necklace of fireballs and a couple of other minor things I've overlooked/chosen to ignore.
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Jory, buddy! Slow down! You've already acted in this turn, and now you've already acted in the NEXT turn as well. What can I do to be clearer about who can go when, folks?
You weave an exciting and moving tale that gets the blood pumping and we get anxious.
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Few things:
- Jory probably just forgot he already acted, since we love combat :) (cfr Manzcar: excited! :D)
- Was the alchemist's bomb fire damage? Coz I believe sometimes it's a different kind.. I could be mistaken though :)
- What was the mistake? Just so I know, no problem with the trade-off vs the necklace.
- Are you sure about the reflex save to put out fire? I thought it would be a regular standard action, since you are *actively* putting out the fire. Reflex sounds like it's only for your own body?
- Last but not least: Keep going lads, I'm worried I won't be able to sleep until I know what happens to Travis. And I need to wake early tomorrow (GMT+1) :)
I hadn't a clue what to do about that fire, so I was just basing it on the rules in the alchemist's fire section of the CRB. As it happens, he made it, so no harm done.
This particular alchemist is throwing bombs that deal fire damage, yes.
The mistake was not counting out from the miss direction one range increment worth of squares to determine where the missed flasks landed. I had thought they landed in a square adjacent to the original target but from my fresh reading of the thrown splash weapons rules in Chapter 8, it looks like they should actually land much farther away:
If you miss the target (whether aiming at a creature or a grid intersection), roll 1d8. This determines the misdirection of the throw, with 1 falling short (off-target in a straight line toward the thrower), and 2 through 8 rotating around the target creature or grid intersection in a clockwise direction. Then, count a number of squares in the indicated direction equal to the range increment of the throw. After you determine where the weapon landed, it deals splash damage to all creatures in that square and in all adjacent squares.
You weave an exciting and moving tale that gets the blood pumping and we get anxious.
Hee! Thanks!
Okay, my mistake on the splash weapons wasn't as egregious as I thought it was. It's been explained to me that missed splash weapons land a number of squares away from the target equal to the number of range increments it was thrown. I think I understand it now.
We be active. LOL
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Yeah, I hated that part also, but I really did not see any other way to heal you, than to stand next to you. Similar for Khain, he had to end his movement next to you in order to douse the flames.
I understand that we would have to "pay the price" this round for standing in a cluster, and then we'll see.
As for the "healing", there's one more coming your way, but I can only use this special ability when you are bellow 0 HP. I thought that it would be fair to Jory not to use charges of his wand when I had "alternate" means (although, wand is 1d8 and this is only 1d4 - with some luck, I could have given you a round more to act, but it's a trade-off).
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No no, I completely understand. No problem on the "healing" instead of the wand, makes sense :)
And 2d4+2 is better in my book than 1d8+1, even though I'm 'losing' a round.
Maybe we could adjust our position to be diagonal from eachother? I should be getting a +4 bonus on my being prone, no? Or do I get a "counts as 0 dex" too?
/confused/
Just hope Manzcar, Alyss and Khain (and in one round Jory) can take out those gobbers, nasty things...
I've been tracking everyone's HP on the map/spreadsheet. You're at whatever it says there (-5 I think). Way to go on the save though!
By the way, Travis, can you point me to the rule that says if you take additional damage while unconscious you're no longer stable? I would swear I've read that but I can't put my finger on the paragraph in the CRB for some reason.
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Dying: A dying creature is unconscious and near death. Creatures that have negative hit points and have not stabilized are dying. A dying creature can take no actions. On the character's next turn, after being reduced to negative hit points (but not dead), and on all subsequent turns, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check to become stable. The character takes a penalty on this roll equal to his negative hit point total. A character that is stable does not need to make this check. A natural 20 on this check is an automatic success. If the character fails this check, he loses 1 hit point. If a dying creature has an amount of negative hit points equal to its Constitution score, it dies.
Basically, I was stable, but am now back in the "dying" compartiment.
Well, you made your save, so you're stable now, actually. And even if you hadn't, the magical healing Rutilus provided stabilized you.
But I'm still looking for a rule that says something like: "A character at negative hit points who is stable, who then receives further damage, is no longer stable and resumes dying." I'm not finding it.
Well, nobody's on fire at the moment except Jory, who is conscious and can put them out himself with a Reflex save. Are you asking because you plan to aid him in some way?
This Goblchemist is starting to irk me
This Goblchemist is starting to irk me
Think how he feels!
He was just minding his own business in his workshop, casually abusing his assistants and mixing up batches of noxious and dangerous alchemical substances to be used on the longshanks in the city above, when all of a sudden, a bunch of adventurers blow up the guard post up the hallway then barge in and start in with the stabbity-stabbity! His whole day is wrecked!
Well he better hope I don't pass my acrobatics and climb checks or his day is going to get a little bit worse.
Speaking of which is that a full round or is just a move action.
Acrobatics (in this case) and Climb would both be part of your move action. To use the Acrobatics/Climb combo mentioned in the initial room description, you need to be approaching the upper level in Column M.
To just use Climb (DC 20), you need to be approaching from Columns O or P.
Climbing is done at quarter speed, and you'll be climbing two vertical squares (ten feet--well, it's touch higher than that but I'll judge it based on ten feet). So when you're climbing, if your normal speed is 6, then your climb speed is 1 (1.5 rounded down) and if your normal move is 4, then your climb is 1. So it'll take two moves to get to the top. Remember that both hands must be free to make these checks, so you'll need to sheathe weapons and stow heavy shields.
If you want to try to move at half speed instead of quarter speed, you can, but the DC of the climb check is made at -5. So that would be 3 vertical squares (or 2 vertical and 1 horizontal in this case) for one move action if your speed is 6 and 2 vertical squares for one move action (leaving you standing at the top) if your speed is 4.
All that make sense?