[PFS] 8-04 Wardens of Sulfur Gulch by GM Upaynao (Inactive)

Game Master Upaynao

Following up on the Siphon. No one on the forums even mentioned using one in conjunction with a bandoleer. There is agreement that the wording is as intended, that there's an action economy issue. The solution was either use Quick Draw or spring loaded wrist sheathes (SLSW).

Quick Draw says "Alchemical items, potions, scrolls, and wands cannot be drawn quickly using this feat." Although this item is technically none of those (it's a slotless magic item) it is a "vial" weighing 1 lb, and is about the size of a potion. There wasn't any consensus as to whether Quick Draw could be used (left up to GM discretion), but if I was ruling on it, I'd be inclined to say no based on the item's similarity to the excluded items' shapes and sizes.

Prior to the April SLSW FAQ, you couldn't use them with potion vials. Now you can. Prior to that, it was agreed that doing so would be the best method of using them, but would require GM approval. Now, I don't think it would require GM approval, but that isn't how she has hers.

The other tactic for using them is to allow the haunt to manifest, draw it and wait for the reset, and when you perceive the subsequent attack, use it then.

I appreciate you allowing her to activate it within the bandoleer. (I can see it in my mind's eye - her reaching to her bandoleer and popping the cork one-handed without drawing it.) When I replace it after this adventure, I'll invest in an SLSW to house it (and free up a bandoleer slot for something else.)

@Eadie: I thought I'd cast shield for you.

Thanks, Insidion!

Well thank you for clarifying all that. This will certainly inform my decisions and rulings further down the road. Anyway, you have defeated the haunt (I was looking forwards to that haunt too), so now lets see where you guys go with this.

(I was looking forwards to that haunt too)

What would it have done?

Just seen the outline of people chocking to death in a cloud of poisonous gas. Nothing major :P

That sounds.. fun xD

I would assume that a rational player/character would go slow and wait out the fatigue.

Oh, I didn’t realize just waiting out the nine minutes was an option – I assumed that would be meta-gaming the duration of the fatigue effect.

That’s why I asked Karl to hit me with a lesser restoration.

Of course … if she had the option to wait, that’s what Eadie would have done ;)

But I’ve got no problem with burning the spell from my scroll. Can you please make a ruling on whether Eadie waited out the fatigue or used the spell, GM Upaynao?

I mentioned the duration for your benefit, I don't see the benefit in nickel-and-diming you charges or scroll uses.

So we could stay at the defensive while the effect passes =)

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Thank-you, GM Upaynao!!

We don't actually have nicknames for our five and ten cent pieces.

The 'heads' on both is Elizabeth of the House Windsor, the Second of Her Name, Queen of the ‘Strailyans and the First Men (though they’re not too happy about it), Didn’t break any chains – but didn’t make any either, and Mother of Charlie, Anne, Andrew and Edward. Oi!

The 'tails' of the 5c is an echidna. (They are pretty common in eucalypt forests all over the country)

While the 'tails' of the 10c is a lyre bird. And you know, I don't think I've ever actually seen one.

What about your 'shrapnel' coins, Karl and Kai?

Gonna start by putting this here before I go to Flaxseed with my strange request.

I'm trying to play through the "... Of The Fiend" series on high tier (subtier 10-11) with my archer paladin. I would like to team up with some of the people who I've run for. I'm also looking to try and get an OK party composition as I've read the the last of the series (5-17 Fate of the Fiend), isn't exactly easy on player characters.

I also need to line up a GM for that trilogy, so if you are interested, bear with me.

Is anyone interested?

PS: Paladin is 1 xp away from 11.

What about your 'shrapnel' coins, Karl and Kai?

In Mexico we have coins for $100, $50 (these two are mostly memorabilia), $20, $10, $5, $2, $1, 50c, 20c, 10c, and the 5c and 1c are almost extinct.

All the coins have the Mexican coat of arms (eagle and 'nopal') on the tails, and all of them have a different face, presidents and similar.

Sorry for not answering sooner, I missed the blue part.

Is anyone interested? PS: Paladin is 1 xp away from 11.

Sadly, I’m not sure the timing would suit either of us.

I’ve signed up my Heal/Buff Cleric 11.0 to play in GM Granta’s Season 8: Soltice Scar A PbP Special starting October 5.

I was then planning to play her in Shifty’s Season 4 PbP Special: Race for the Runecarved Key, scheduled to start sometime in January 2018. (Though I could play one of my other PCs)

I would be interested in either Fury and/or Fate of the Fiend, but I can’t commit to the whole trilogy.

Maybe consider me as an alternative if someone drops down the line?

GM U, it's an honor to be invited, but I'm gonna pass on your offer. I've got a character that I want to run thru that (due to chronicle boon revealed to me by accident). She's not in tier yet, and definitely isn't up to high tier.

And I don't think I'd be ready to run that as my first PBP GM gig. I think my first PBP GM run ought to be something I've run F2F first. I still haven't actually competed a PBP session yet!

But I'm curious, you called it part of the "... of the Fiend" series. I presume Day Of The Demon is part of that series? What else is?

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Here you go, Amestra!

Season Zero: Fingerprints of the Fiend

Season 2: Fury of the Fiend

Season 5: Fate of the Fiend

Thanks! I'd never noticed that trilogy spread across 3 seasons. Interesting.

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I have a level 10 Dwarf Fighter that could be interested.

I've never GMd high-level stuff before...I'd probably be a poor candidate for running it.

I've played "Fingerprints" and maybe "Fury," but definitely NOT "Fate" - so I eagerly accept your invitation to one, if not two, out of three! I have plenty of potentially available characters, especially for the lower Tier.

Day of the Demon has tie-ins to other scenarios.

I hate how the typical approach to many new classes has been to just dump simple weapon proficiency on them. I hate seeing Alchemists and Investigators and Psychics and the like armed with spears. I wish they'd put more effort and creativity into most classes' weapon proficiencies - give out niche lists like the Druid and Monk and Brawler get rather than just "all simple weapons." That's all.

So I just had a wonderful Grinchy idea:

I have a wand of disguise person with a precious few charges on it. I could use it to disguise myself as a third "Isirah," and from there, bluff Evil (or at least antagonistic) Isirah into thinking that I'm yet another lost portion of her who she must deal with to become complete.

Could there be any use for that course of action at this point?

Bringing this to discussion thread just to be sure.

Kai can get +15 with either craft(alchemy) or use magic device, with additional 1d8 inspiration. And yes, personally prefer 6 vs 1. :) Probably easier for the GM also.

V, not sure at this point that it would. Unless it confused her during the battle, but I think I'd save your charges on that.

So, Kai does Alchemy, V does UMD, Karl does Planes, Eadie gives Dungeoneering a shot (cause why not?), and Amestra takes one of the other Knowledge rolls she can tap (Nature or Arcana).

Personally, I'd prefer smaller foes, but I'll support 6 v 1 for time and simplicity.

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Sorry, GM Upaynao. I’m still confused.

Can Amestra and/or Kai roll ALL the skills (as the 'primary' and we aid), or does each PC have to pick just ONE skill?

The group, as a whole has one shot at each skill. Say Amestra decides she is rolling Disable Device (not that it's an available skill here, but this is for illustration purposes). She rolls a 14, which fails. Eadie can no longer roll Disable Device, nor can Kai, V or Insidion.

However for the next possible skill, Knowledge (Nature) Eadie, Kai, and Karl can fight for the honor of rolling that skill.

So yes, Kai and Amestra can roll all the skills. But if one fails, the other cannot attempt the same check.

Still a bit vague: Is there any point AT ALL in any of the rest of us getting involved, since it seems those two have us outclassed in almost all cases in almost all skills?

Thanks, I think I get it now.

I am good with whoever has the highest skill modifier (Amy or Kai) to roll all the skill checks.

Well, you could assist them, as that's still possible. Assist rolls just need to be made ahead of time.

I would also point out that while it is certainly more efficient to stack on those people who have the better chance, it would certainly enhance things if you managed to "share the load".

Should I take the lead for Planes, or do I assist a PC with a higher bonus?

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Should I take the lead for Planes, or do I assist a PC with a higher bonus?

Sounds like there isn't much reason not to do the latter.

Let's have those 2 make the rolls, and we will assist.

Well, you could assist them, as that's still possible. Assist rolls just need to be made ahead of time.

I would also point out that while it is certainly more efficient to stack on those people who have the better chance, it would certainly enhance things if you managed to "share the load".

Emphasis bold.

Let's have those 2 make the rolls, and we will assist.

Assisting PCs need to make their check first, per GM instructions.

As you entered the room where Isirah was first to reveal herself to you, she was ready to make your life miserable with another haunt/combat but she genuinely believed after your impassioned pleas that you wanted to help her. She just decided that you were going to help her her way.

On the plus side, you avoided a bunch of haunts for which you had no defenses whatsoever by doing this. Hooray?

Are we 100% sure that Big Isirah is not friendly?

What knowledge check would it be to find out more a out large Isirah?

I have to ask, was the "blowing" that recharged a breath weapon? Do we get a reflex save to avoid it? (Amestra can spend a panache on a successful Reflex save as an immediate action to gain Evasion for that save, and given that Reflex is by far her better save, you can see why I have to ask.)

Second question, understanding that She is a unique entity (hence the high Knowledge DC) would we know anything about normal elementals that might apply?

And lastly, cause I was in a rush to post, I didn't state that Amestra will use a feature of her hat, specifically:

... Whenever he uses inspiration to identify a nonhumanoid creature, he can record the result of the inspiration die and use it again later. Within the next minute, before rolling an attack roll against that creature, a skill check against that creature, or a saving throw against one of that creature’s attacks, he can add the recorded inspiration die result to his roll

She's gonna save the 2 she got for a saving throw. Why do I think I'm gonna really need that?

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No worries ☺

Fort, Reflex, Fort, Will; flipping the 16 for the 8, I make Eadie’s nat rolls to be:
2, 8, 15, 16

So we have:

Fort: 2 + 1 + 15 = 18+5 vs nausea?
Reflex: 8 + 9 = 17
Fort: 15 + 15 = 30
Will: 16 + 13 = 29

EDIT: D'oh! Updated.

No worries ☺

Fort, Reflex, Fort, Will; flipping the 16 for the 8, I make Eadie’s nat rolls to be:
2, 8, 15, 16

So we have:

[dice=Fort] 2+15+5 vs nausea?
[dice=Reflex] 8+9
[dice=Fort] 15+15
[dice=Will] 16+13

Don't forget your GM star on that first roll. 2 + 1 + 15 + 5 vs sickness or nausea

Heads up, I am taking a 10 day family break starting today.

I’ve got my iPad so at least once-a-day posting will be no problem, though I may need help moving my token on the map.

Eadie, the Slides app for iPad works great! I've been using it for those times where I don't have my laptop with me.

Thanks, Karl! I'll check it out.

GM Upaynao, I think we're still in round 1 and I have posted Eadie's actions for the round. Yeah?

@Kai, there is no facing in Pathfinder.

It looks like you could 5' step and shove Little Isirah in Big Isirah's face if you wanted to.

What is the mechanical requirement of the phrase "shoving in her face"? Kidding, sort of, cause I do like the visual. But does Kai have to be adjacent or just in a position to present it prominently, like a holy symbol?

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@Kai, there is no facing in Pathfinder.

It looks like you could 5' step and shove Little Isirah in Big Isirah's face if you wanted to.

Ah, no what I meant was that Kai's in the corner so you guys can't get to him to take the tablet. And he has posted his action for this turn already so can't do that whole shoving thing until next turn. Hope we can survive one round! :P

Oh, OK.

Reading between the lines, I think the GM would allow you to change your actions based on the info he fed us and saves we made after Big Isirah had her turn.

Your call though.

Our GM is Fabulously Awesome (and fresh smelling!) after all. He might, indeed.

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GM Upaynao I know drinking a potion provokes. I also assumed because Big Isirah was Huge she has a 15' reach.

(Is that right or does she have a 20+' reach?)

That's why I specifically posted the order:

1. Draw
2. Drink (as a medium creature)
3. 5' step (as a large creature)

to avoid an AoO.

(Eadie began her turn in the square north of Amestra)

If you disagree, I trust you to take the reflex save for Eadie. The modifier is +7 +8 for size and because she has lost her dodge bonus.

Edit: Dodge feat does not apply to Reflex saves.

I was looking at the prior versions of the battle map before I went along with the AoO; you see, as stated, you don't end up in the squares you end your movement in, as you would enlarge in squares that do not contain other characters in them. Thus to end up where you are now, you'd somehow be squeezing with Amestra for part of your round and then not.

Local play has given me a rather dim view of squeezing shenanigans, as they were performed locally with an eye to exploit existing ambiguities and finally just outright cheat. With that said, I'm more than happy not to take an AoO, but you would not be in the squares you currently occupy.

I'll give Eadie until late this afternoon (EST) to opine one way or the other on all that, since it's about 5:00 AM there by the time I post this.

I have only recently become aware of the advantages enlarge person give to a front-liner. (Last mission in fact. Hey, I'm a slow learner ;)

As such, the rules for this are new to me.

Now, I bet you are intimate with those rules GM Upaynao and have used that spell dozens or even hundreds of times. Here's what I thought as a newly enlarged person.

- You could choose the direction you enlarge into.

- Allies can share a square, but must not finish their turn in the same square. (Amy and Eadie have a history of sharing squares ;)

From my reading of the rules, they imply to me the squeezing stuff addresses the "irresistible force meets the immovable object" conundrum ie. what happens if you enlarge inside something made of rock, wood or steel that is clearly stronger than flesh and bone.

I'm obviously not going to make a strength check to 'burst through Amy' and with all due respect to her - not being made of iron I wouldn't have thought she'd be able to prevent the expanding process.

Now having said all that, I see you feel strongly about this issue. You're a very experienced GM and what you say goes.

My intention is always to apply the rules fairly, in order to (1) defend my companions, and (2) contribute to the success of the mission, to the best of my ability.

Not to complicate things further (but my ex said I always do anyway), but perhaps Amy was caught off guard by the sudden increase in size of her ally, and was inadvertently bumped/stumbled 5' back out of the way? I'd be willing to accept the staggered condition for her in round 2 to simulate the loss of her movement. I know this isn't RAW by any means, just looking for a solution that satisfies GM's concerns over meta-shenanigans and reflects how well this party (particularly Amy & Eadie) has gelled/worked together so far.

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