I like the Kingdom of Hartland (or Hartsland) with the capital city of Rupertsburgh (since he was the longest running character to retire).
Jon would be the conventional choice for King but we hardly need to be a conventional kingdom...
Jon will take another level of Paladin once I get to updating him in herolab I'll have his details up.
I'm good with Jon as King, or Baron as he starts out. Kereek will work in multiple roles, so I'll wait until people have chosen their roles to choose one for him. The roles are:
Ruler: Charisma
Councilor: Wisdom or Charisma
General: Strength or Charisma
Grand Diplomat: Intelligence or Charisma
High Priest: Wisdom or Charisma
Magister: Intelligence or Charisma
Marshal: Dexterity or Wisdom
Royal Assassin: Strength or Dexterity
Spymaster: Dexterity or Intelligence
Treasurer: Intelligence or Wisdom
Warden: Strength or Constitution
We don't need a Royal Assassin (yet), but we need to fill the rest as much as we can, or we take a penalty. Each person can fill a single role.
And I'm good with Hartsland. It sounds less like heartland.
Hartland sounds good. I wouldn't call Jon the "conventional" choice for king so much as the best man for the job.
Of course, you'll want to consider converting to Erastil, since he'll be the state religion... ;-)
Hartland sounds good to me to. Although Treshiell will probably call it something else she think fits. I just have to figure out what.
What does the different roles do? Statwise Treshiell is most suited for Grand diplomat, Magister, Spymaster or Treasurer.
OK, I guess if we're going to start discussing it, I'll post some of the leadership positions you'll be able to take. I plan to reread the city/kingdom-building rules and figure out what I want to post of those -- obviously some of you know them, but I'd like to hold off a little bit still there. Jon, storywise, was the conventional choice for king, but I'm happy to go a different direction. Remember you do have a few NPCs (most in the campaign info tab, though I guess I also need to update that with Akiros, and probably Rupert, since he's now an NPC) you can put in some of these spots, but others may remain vacant and need to be filled later.
You've now got downtime, so I know there were a few things you mentioned wanting to do before you get the official notice that will launch your kingdom. Please let me know what you want to do with all the captured bandits, or if there's anything else you want to do, and once that's done, we'll move on.
KINGDOM ROLES
A healthy kingdom has leaders filling a number of different roles. Each leader grants the kingdom different benefits; leaving a role unfilled can penalize the kingdom. In order for a Leadership role to grant its bonus, the character in that particular role must spend at least 1 week per month engaged in various leadership duties (during which time the PCs must be located within a hex that is part of their kingdom). For this campaign, it’s best to have the party pick the same week to dedicate to their administrative duties so that all of the PCs are all available for “adventuring duty” at the same time. A single character can only occupy one leadership role at a time.
Ruler
The ruler is the primary leader of the kingdom. Unlike the other leadership roles, a ruler uses one of three distinct titles, depending on the current size of the kingdom. For a kingdom of size 1–20, its ruler is known as a baron or baroness. For a kingdom of size 21–80, its ruler is known as a duke or duchess. A kingdom of size 81 or higher is ruled by a king or queen.
Benefit: A baron or baroness chooses one of a nation’s statistics (Economy, Loyalty, or Stability) and modifies that score by a value equal to the character’s Charisma modifier. A duke or duchess chooses two of these values to modify. A king or queen modifies all three values.
Vacancy Penalty: A kingdom without a ruler cannot claim new hexes, create farmlands, build roads, or purchase city districts. Increase Unrest by 4 during each Upkeep phase in which the kingdom has no ruler.
Special: Two characters can fill this role if they become married, in which case the two rulers can jointly command the kingdom. Both rulers apply their Charisma modifiers to the kingdom’s Stability, Economy, and Loyalty checks as appropriate for their rank, and as long as one of the two rulers is present for 1 week per month, they avoid the vacancy penalty.
Councilor
The councilor ensures that the will of the citizenry is represented. Benefit Increase Loyalty by a value equal to the Councilor’s Wisdom or Charisma modifier.
Vacancy Penalty: Decrease Loyalty by 2; the kingdom cannot gain benefits from festivals. Increase Unrest by 1 during each Upkeep phase in which the kingdom has no Councilor.
General
The General commands the kingdom’s armies and is a public hero.
Benefit Increase Stability by a value equal to the General’s Strength or Charisma modifier.
Vacancy Penalty Decrease Stability by 4.
Grand Diplomat
The Grand Diplomat oversees international relations.
Benefit Increase Stability by a value equal to the Grand Diplomat’s Intelligence or Charisma modifier.
Vacancy Penalty Decrease Stability by 2; the kingdom cannot issue Promotion Edicts.
High Priest
The high priest guides the kingdom’s religious needs and growth.
Benefit Increase Stability by a value equal to the High Priest’s Wisdom or Charisma modifier.
Vacancy Penalty Decrease Stability and Loyalty by 2. Increase Unrest by 1 during each Upkeep phase in which the kingdom has no High Priest.
Magister
The Magister guides a kingdom’s higher learning and magic.
Benefit Increase Economy by a value equal to the Magister’s Intelligence or Charisma modifier.
Vacancy Penalty Decrease Economy by 4.
Marshal
The Marshal helps organize patrols and enforces justice in rural and wilderness regions.
Benefit Increase Economy by a value equal to the Marshal’s Dexterity or Wisdom modifier.
Vacancy Penalty Decrease Economy by 4.
Royal Assassin
The Royal Assassin can serve as a public executioner, a headsman, or a shadowy assassin.
Benefit Increase Loyalty by a value equal to the Royal Assassin’s Strength or Dexterity modifier. Fear inspired by the Royal Assassin reduces Unrest by 1 during each Upkeep phase.
Vacancy Penalty A kingdom without a Royal Assassin suffers no vacancy penalty.
Spymaster
The Spymaster observes the kingdom’s underworld and criminal elements and spies on other kingdoms.
Benefit Increase Loyalty, Economy, or Stability (Spymaster’s choice) by a value equal to the Spymaster’s Dexterity or Intelligence modifier. The Spymaster can change which value he modifies during the kingdom’s Improvement phase (but
only once per phase).
Vacancy Penalty Reduce Economy by 4 because of out-of-control crime. Increase Unrest by 1 during each Upkeep phase in which the kingdom has no Spymaster.
Treasurer
The Treasurer organizes tax collection, and manages the treasury.
Benefit Increase Economy by a value equal to the Treasurer’s Intelligence or Wisdom modifier.
Vacancy Penalty Reduce Economy by 4; the kingdom cannot collect taxes.
Warden
The Warden leads the kingdom’s defense and city guards.
Benefit Increase Loyalty by a value equal to the Warden’s Strength or Constitution modifier.
Vacancy Penalty Reduce Loyalty by 4 and Stability by 2.
Hartland sounds good to me to. Although Treshiell will probably call it something else she think fits. I just have to figure out what.
What does the different roles do? Statwise Treshiell is most suited for Grand diplomat, Magister, Spymaster or Treasurer.
Grand Diplomat, I can just see the negotiating table now.
Ruler: Jon
Councilor: Agnar or Kereek*
General: Orin*
Grand Diplomat: Treshiell or Kereek*
High Priest: Agnar*
Magister: Treshiell or Kereek*
Marshal: Prazil*
Spymaster: Prazil or Kereek*
Treasurer: Treshiell*
Warden: Orin*
Okay these are the best suited for each job as I see them. Mott, are we able to use NPCs in these roles, too?
I think we definitely need:
- Ruler
- General
- Magister or Marshall (missing both wrecks our economy)
- High Priest
- Spymaster
- Treasurer
- Warden
The others we can do without, though we don't really want to... However, we may have to until we can find suitable NPCs, assuming we can use them, to fill them.
Also, we need to choose what Alignment our nation is:
A kingdom’s alignment affects its statistics. Choose your kingdom’s alignment carefully. Lawful kingdoms gain a +2 bonus on Economy checks. Chaotic kingdoms gain a +2 bonus on Loyalty checks. Good kingdoms gain a +2 bonus on Loyalty checks. Evil kingdoms gain a +2 bonus on Economy checks. Neutral kingdoms gain a +2 bonus on Stability checks. A truly neutral kingdom gains this bonus twice.
(Mott, I went ahead and bought the River Kingdoms book... Fiddly bits.)
Bear in mind we have friendly NPCs we can offer these positions to as well.
Oh, and a fair point was made about Hartland/heartland. Perhaps we should go with Hartsland.
So long as no one starts calling us Shartsland or Fartsland, I'm cool with that.
What do we name our Capital city?
Kereek, I think you can use NPCs in any role. You can even make one the ruler if you want. On one hand that seems odd, on the other, having one player be ruler sort of elevates him/her above the others.
Also, I think some NPCs are more interested in some positions than others. I need to doublecheck that, though.
I think Magister would suit Treshiell best. Although Grand Diplomat would be kinda funny. Treasurer. Nope, not gonna happen.
By the way, anyone has any suggestions what hex and spells i should choose for my new level?
The ones on my list are:
Disguise: Nice utility spell.
Flight: Going to take this with Extra hex feat on level 5 (if i make it that far).
Fortune: Nice buff. Sadly just once per day per character.
Prehensile hair: Just cool. Not sure if its all that handy though.
Slumber: Really good but i'm afraid that it might be to cheesy. Although since Mott makes all his saves that's not an issue :p
Tongues: Nice utility that i will have to get eventually.
Ward: Something that i think i will have to get eventually, although slightly situational.
If we're nominating NPC's I'd like to nominate Rupert for Spymaster.
Ward is an AWESOME hex. I have a hexcrafter magus pc in one of the games I run who gets LOADS of mileage out of it. At higher levels you start to run into stacking issues, but it's extremely useful. And it just stays on until an attack or effect slips through.
It's like a RonCo Set-It-And-Forget-It hex =)
If not that, waterlung could be another useful but situational choice, though I doubt I'd pick it over some of your other options.
I think the top hexes in your list are prehensile hair (great for holding a wand or potion), tongues, and ward.
Flight is good, and ultimately necessary, but hardly so at level 4 imho.
Cool. We definitely need a Treasurer and they need a decent Wisdom or Intelligence score. If Rupert is available as an NPC, I'm all for Spymaster.
Ruler: Jon
Councilor: Agnar or Kereek*
General: Orin*
Grand Diplomat: Kereek*
High Priest: Agnar*
Magister: Treshiel
Marshal: Prazil
Spymaster: Rupert
Treasurer: ????
Warden: Orin*
That leaves Kereek as either Councillor (the people's kobold!) or Grand Diplomat (you make Kereek sad with your say no-no. We feed you to Fang now.) Thoughts?
I would imagine Agnar is a shoo-in for High Priest. Prazil is definitely best for Marshall. Which leaves Treshiell as Magister, and Orin as Warden (city guard and defense) or General (Armies and public hero). I vote for Warden as the penalty for not having one is worse. We also have the guy who turned on the Stag Lord, who could become a General. And Oleg might make a good Treasurer, if he could be persuaded.
(Note: names with stars mean possible, without means that's the best role for them.)
What NPC's do we have that we can shoehorn into positions?
Stevic
Taerine
Jhod
Akiros
Kesten
Some are a better fit than others, but without physically knowing their stats we can only guess.
Stevic managed to make a going concern of his trading post in the middle of nowhere.
Kesten is already a leader of men. Besides he would get off on that whole "Public Hero" thing.
The others I'm not too sure on.
I did a bad bad thing. I looked at the animal companions in the bestiary 3 and found... THESE. I am now torn between one of these and a triceratops.
I envisioned Prazil training an elite cadre of soldiers to serve as cavalry and outriders/scouts astride this magnificent animal and thought, "man, that is such a cool idea!"
So, the question I have to face now is, if Mott would bless it, do I take a chocob-I mean axebeak now and wait until 7th level for the triceratops or do I just stick with the triceratops?
I'm mostly drawn to the axebeak for the same reason I liked Fang - a base speed of 50.
Suggestions? Thoughts?
Stevic should make a good treasurer. Taerine or Jhod as a councilor?
Ward is an AWESOME hex. I have a hexcrafter magus pc in one of the games I run who gets LOADS of mileage out of it. At higher levels you start to run into stacking issues, but it's extremely useful. And it just stays on until an attack or effect slips through.
It's like a RonCo Set-It-And-Forget-It hex =)
If not that, waterlung could be another useful but situational choice, though I doubt I'd pick it over some of your other options.
I think the top hexes in your list are prehensile hair (great for holding a wand or potion), tongues, and ward.
Flight is good, and ultimately necessary, but hardly so at level 4 imho.
Flight is for lvl5, when i can use it to fly. My problem with Ward is that it expires when somebody hits you. Seems like something you cast and then disappears within a round or two. Although +2 AC is always +2 AC.
I kinda want Slumber as a "get out of trouble"-last resort that i can use when evil things get up next to me. Since most hexes have a range of 30ft i need to be within move action range of the combat. The trouble is that putting people to sleep is quite good so it would feel to be quite of a loss not to use it all of the time.
Ruler: Jon
Councilor: Taerine or Jhod*
General: ???
Grand Diplomat: Kereek
High Priest: Agnar
Magister: Treshiel
Marshal: Prazil
Spymaster: Rupert
Treasurer: Stevic
Warden: Orin
Sorry, I forgot some of the names in Mott's game have been changed to protect the innocent..
So unless anyone has any objection, this is the list of PCs, NPCs and roles. Of course, we could also have a Royal Assassin, if any NPCs would fit that role.
And there's the matter of alignment. If we go Lawful Good, then we get a +2 on Economy and Loyalty scores. Given our ruler is a paladin and Erastil is a LG god, this might be the easiest way. Or we could go Neutral Good, which gives us a +2 to Stability and Loyalty.
But ward has no duration. So you pop it on someone at the start of the day and they enjoy a +2 to all their saves and their AC until they either fail a save or get hit. After combat, pop it back on.
Combined with Evil Eye, that can be a net difference of 4 required for a badguy to land a blow. Not too shabby.
Names were changed mostly because I hated Oleg and whatshername's names. They sounded too earth-like for my tastes -- I tend to like very high fantasy names.
There's also Vandar as an NPC and the four Sirens. And don't forget you can leave some of these positions vacant for a bit -- you may meet other folks you want to bring in to your kingdom, though of course it's completely up to you.
I may get the River Kingdom guide. I keep figuring, what the heck's $10 for a PDF, but eventually all of those are adding up.
Patrik, you could eventually get Split Hex -- which I think is a really cool feat -- which would let you Ward two characters (though it's not available until 10th level). I also thought Unnerve Beasts was a kind of cool hex -- I gave it to my goblin witch, though it's not been used yet.
I think Jhod for Councilor would be a better fit than Taerine (Whenever I see that name I keep thinking of a tureen), you know for the stereotypical wise councilor, he's a priest after all.
Kesten would be my pick for General as he already has experience leading troops, ala the Stetven Sirens.
Taerine for Royal Assassin?
Otherwise I'm fine with that line-up.
Now all we have to do is get Jon married off and producing us an heir and a spare.
Bear in mind we have friendly NPCs we can offer these positions to as well.
Oh, and a fair point was made about Hartland/heartland. Perhaps we should go with Hartsland.
I had intended for it to be a play on words, but we can throw the "S" in there as well.
What about Jonsburgh for the Capital, in honor of our illustrious ruler.
I'm just reading over the kingdom and city building rules and figuring out what I'm going to post.
For those with the rules, I think I'm NOT going to be giving you specifics about the city-building costs, so I'd appreciate if you not delve too much into that. I just think that'll give you more of a natural feel for the city as opposed to a sort of meta-gaming aspect. Though like I said, I still have to give it a good read.
Could we use Beaky as the Royal Assassin? ("You have been found guilty and, in accordance with the laws of Hartsland, will be thrown to the owlbear, who will mete out justice.")
I posted this earlier, but the postmonster appears to have devoured it:
What does the snake with the flower represent?
Mott, no problem on the rules bits. If you tell us what you want us to keep track of, I'll keep my prying eyes away the off-limits fiddly bits.
Also, if Kereek is going to be a Grand Diplomat, he is totally going to need some swanky clothes.
Jon could never accept it being named after him. Not that he doesn't have the vainness required to do so while living, but he does believe that such an honor has to be earned.
But I like the married idea... if the opportunity presents itself I'll likely play it up.
I'll begin planning your political marriage immediately!
What if instead of naming the city after a person we just went with something really simple like "Throne"?
I'd be cool with making the owlbear our National Animal =P
I'm compiling the loot list now and will have it posted up soon. I'm thinking about skipping adding the rope, nails, hammers and chisels to the list and just say we used them up rehabbing the fort to make it more livable.
Thronehold?
Keystone?
Stag's Run?
Crown's Rest?
ooo - I like adding 'hold' to the end of it.
I particularly like either Thronehold or Crownhold.
Okay the loot list has been updated.
Here
I took the liberty of selling off all the various objects d'arte, jewlery, and adding the loose coins found throughout the fort and on the bandits themselves everyone should get:
750 cp's
347 sp's
911 gp's
3 pp's
That still leaves the miscellaneous trade goods in the basement left to sell. How do we want to handle that? Do we want to let everybody pick it over and pick out whatever they want and then sell and split the rest, or do we want to sell it outright and if anybody wants something specific they can buy it out of their share of the loot.
Thronehold sounds nice. Fits with being the capital.
I like Thronehold, capital city of Hart(s)land, Baron Jon I, ruler. His Eminence Kereek the Red, Grand Diplomat.
Yessss... I likes it, precious...
EDIT: Kereek would definitely like a couple cure potions to keep on hand (his stock was depleted) and would love the Amulet of Natural Armor or the Ring of Protection. Aside from that, he's not really suited for most of the gear.
I'm not sure what to ask for gear/loot-wise in light of the wealth-disparity conversation from a while ago.
I'm thinking, potion wise, that the CSW's should go to the front liners (Orin, Jon, and Prazil), the CMW's to Kereek and Treshiell, and the Lesser Restoration to Agnar.
Also we still have 720 gp's on account at Stevic's. If we each chip in 5 gp's apiece along with the credit we can order a wand of CLW to augment our healing with.
What does the snake with the flower represent?
Mott, no problem on the rules bits. If you tell us what you want us to keep track of, I'll keep my prying eyes away the off-limits fiddly bits.
Also, if Kereek is going to be a Grand Diplomat, he is totally going to need some swanky clothes.
I tried to get a little of something from each party member in there. The snake and flower are for Treshiell. There were going to be fiery comets around the wolf for Kereek, but I couldn't get them to sit right. I might have to switch the wolf and the key so I have room to work.
I like Orin's potion split. As for the trade goods, let's just sell them and add the total to the loot for the sake of convenience.
I'm leaning towards the Stag helm and the magic bow. It's a bit much for one character, but they're the only things in the lot that appeal to Agnar as a character. He prefers lighter armor for movement, so the medium stuff is out.
Okay, by my calculations if we sold everything except the potions, and not including the store credit (for a wand) and adding in the money from the gems, etc, we should each have 3055 gp, 8 silver, 5 cp.
Perhaps if we each took what we wanted and removed the money we would have gotten from the total of 3055.85, that would be equitable. So the magic bow and stag's helm would be 3050, which would leave Agnar with 5 gp, 8 silver and 5 copper.
Thoughts?
I could live with that. I could also live with another character taking one or the other of the items as well, if anyone's interested in them.
Orin's interested in the Helm as well, along with the Ring and or the Amulet. As a Spell-Less Ranger he gets a quasi sneak attack against his Favored enemy or in his Favored Terrain, so the Insightful Shot portion would come in handy.
I'll defer to the front line fighters on the protective ring and amulet.
Mott, is there any opportunity to purchase magic items in the coming year?
Sure. You'll have plenty of time to re-equip or even craft things yourself. Anything in the core book is fair game; other items are rarer may require a roll. If you want something magical and don't want to have it be a prosaic purchase, let me know and I can maybe try to make it a gift or get it to you in some other way.
I'm working on getting stuff set up for the new thread; did you decide where you want to found Thronehold? Also what alignment your country will be?
Also, Orin noted he wanted to keep the prisoners unconscious on the journey back -- did you have a method other than just beating them? Are others all OK witht hat? Also, Prazil mentioned trying to strike up a friendship with Auchs, which could be possible if he's not unconscious. If that happens, we may want to figure out if he will really be put to death. (Again, I'm not sure how much more of this you want to role-play out -- from what I can tell we've basically got the disposition of the bandits to handle and then we'll go on to Book 2.)
I'd rather try to rehabilitate Auchs. He seems more stupid than evil. Perhaps with some good role models he could become a decent person?
Kereek is going to want to get ahold of a minor bag of holding, so he can keep his courtier's outfits and jewlery in it. He's going to take the role of Diplomat VERY seriously.
Aside from that, I need to ponder...
I vote our Kingdom should be Neutral Good, to strike a balance between Erastil's Lawful Good and Abadar's Lawful Neutral alignments.
My point was that they were at negative hit points and stable which should keep them unconscious for at least a day or more, before they heal up on their own, while we high tail it back to the fort.
I believe that we decided on building the capital city at the Stag Lord's fort. Neutral Good works for me. Assuming the NPC's sign on we should have the following line up:
Ruler: Jon
Councilor: Jhod
General: Kesten
Grand Diplomat: Kereek
High Priest: Aganr
Magister: Treshiell
Marshall: Prazil
Royal Assassin: Vacant
Spymaster: Rupert
Treasurer: Stevic
Warden: Orin
RE: Auchs - My feeling from Auchs was that he was a bit like Lenny from Grapes of Wrath; that he mostly didn't understand what he was doing and that his child-likeness would make it easy for him and Prazil to get along.
RE: Keeping them unconscious - if the only means to do so is beating them, Prazil would not like that one bit. Beating locked up people is what bad bandits do, not what big heroes do!
RE: Kingdom Alignment - my initial thought was NG as well, but all the talk of the trying of the bandits and their potential pardons/executions made me wonder if we weren't instead leaning toward LN or possibly even LG. I'd be ok with any of those, but I slightly favor NG over any other options.
RE: Loot - Prazil would love to get his claws on a masterwork (or even better, magical!) lance. I also wouldn't mind it if Prazil got the Ring of Protection or the Amulet of Natural Armor as boosting his AC as high as I can get it has been a main goal of mine. In that same vein though, someone else might benefit from it more. Also, if there's still a significant wealth disparity between Prazil and the longer running characters, I'd prefer narrowing the gap over Prazil getting any new shinies from the spoils.
Also, if Agnar would like it, he can just have Fang's barding and I'll have a new set of barding crafted for Prazil's new mount (see below).
RE: Prazil's Mount - I was thinking today and experienced a total re-evaluation over what kind of mount I'd like Prazil to have. This happened after I realized all the ones I was looking at became amazing but only after they became large sized. While the lil' kobold has a good AC, he does NOT hit hard, so a lot of his damage output needs to be supplemented by having a mount with him 99% of the time. That's unlikely with a large-sized mount. I can keep mounts medium sized, but in doing so I lose out on most of the great benefits. For instance, with the triceratops, instead of getting +3 natural armor, the gore attack going from 1d8 to 2d6, gaining +8 str, +4 con, -2 dex and getting the powerful charge special quality, the mount would stay medium and get +2 dex and +2 con. Laaaaaame.
So I went back to the drawing board, looked at suitable mounts from this page here and settled on my top 4 choices.
- Thylacine (benefit: we found some earlier, so no magic abbracadabra dm fiat is needed for a suitable one to be nearby // downside: slow speed)
- Kangaroo (benefit: fast (50ft speed!) // downside: LOL! It's a freakin' 'roo!)
- Giant Gecko (benefit: under a constant spider climb effect - could be useful // downside: slow speed)
- Cheetah or Leopard (benefit: waaaaaay fast! // downside: lose out on 2 of its 3 attacks (the claws) while mounted)
All told, I think at this point the mount that will serve Prazil best for the next batch of levels would be a cheetah or leopard. Further down the line, at like level 7 or 8 a Velociraptor would be excellent, but that's a long, long way off in a pbp.
So is it cool with you, Mott, if I pull a mulligan and go with a cheetah or leopard?