Monster Mashup - Table 1 (Inactive)

Game Master CaveToad

Just to double-check: I am spending FPP on evolutions. In the future, I'm likely to add the Extra Evolution feat to Sensation. When I go this route, the points are permanent, but may still be redistributed on a level-by-level basis, correct?

Also, is it too late to swap from Fire Resistance on Miyu to the Swim evolution? I like the idea of Sensation adapting him to the situation. (When they first leveled, his only real threat was the heat.)

It also lets him hunt in the water, when Tavros goes for his jogs. (He wouldn't want to become shark-bait by himself. Plus, Tavros can help him get in and out!)

Also, it appears as though we are not using Unchained Crafting from the first post. Has there been a decision as to whether to use normal crafting or Unchained?

Once you spend FPP they are locked in. Of course evolutions can be changed each level as poer the rules, but the FPP are always evolution points.

If you change from FR to swim its ok.

We ARE using Unchained Crafting. Maybe not at the start as I hadn't read it or something, but it seems reasonable to me.

Level 3
Fighter (Cad) 3
+1 BAB
+1d10 Hit Points +1 (Con) +1 (Favored Class)
+1 Reflex Save
+1 Will Save
Catch Off-Guard bonus feat (replaces Armor Training)

Rogue (Scout/Thug/Underground Chemist) 3
+12 skill points
+1 Fortitude save
Brutal Beating - reduce sneak attack by 1d6 to inflict Sickened condition for 1/2 rogue levels in rounds (replaces Trap Sense).

Investigator 3
Investigator Talent (Infusion)
Keen Recollection
Trap Sense +1

Campaign Bonus Feat - Nimble Striker

Level 4
Fighter (Cad) 4
+1 BAB
+1d10 Hit Points +1 (Con) +1 (Favored Class) +1 (Toughness)
+1 Fortitude Save
Bonus Feat - Mobility

Rogue (Scout/Thug/Underground Chemist) 4
+12 Skill Points
Scout's Charge - deal sneak attack on charge (replaces Uncanny Dodge)
Precise Splash Weapon - deal sneak attack with splash weapons (replaces 4th level rogue talent)

Investigator 4
+1 Reflex Save
+1 Will Save
Swift Alchemy
Studied Strike 1d6
Studied Combat
2nd level extracts

Bloodrager 1 (Cheese Dip)
Fast Movement
Bloodrage
Bloodline: Celestial
Angelic Attacks - melee attacks count as good aligned for overcoming DR and deal an extra 1d6 against evil outsiders.

Campaign Bonus Feat - Extra Rage

Weapon
3rd level feat - Weapon Focus
4th level feat - Cleave
MCP -2000 for +1 enhancement

Also, @Maks, that Doctor Who vid was interesting. I can't help but think that the Doctor may have been less lonely if he hadn't had been an idiot with Martha. Or had actually let Lady whats-her-name (Christina maybe?) come with him because I thought she was pretty cool. But eh. 11 also loses companions, but he has less of them overall to lose.

Yup, it's generally a thing that the Doctors 'age out' of their companions. 11, I feel, did it more than 10, because there's all that offscreen time where he goes from 'amazed by all life' to 'war doctor all over again.'

I just like the music video a ridiculous amount. The Tavros Posing thing made me think 'Vogue', which reminded me :)

Since I've shared this with a little less than half of the party already...

I can't not see Tavros doing this every time you mention interpretive dance.

Wonky Question Time! It's normally ridiculously feat intensive, but I noticed a rather... strange interaction.

This feat allows you to flank with yourself when you use a teleportation ability. Pretty simple. Huge feat investment.

This feat allows you to gain a +4 bonus to hit for flanking with an ally. You are your own ally. Alright, fine.

But there's the second part of Dimensional Outflank. I am flanking with myself, and if I crit, the creature provokes an attack of opportunity from my ally. So... in theory, if the character crits, they can take another free attack as an attack of opportunity.

But wait, there's more! Because I'm flanking with everyone that I could be flanking with via the squares I have teleported to, everyone who has outflank should get a free attack.

What this means is that if you can 'turn on' outflank and the Dimensional Savant line, you can turn any melee into a complete blood bath in short order. Or am I missing something?

You are probably missing the part where I smash it with my nerfhammer.

Maybe. I have to see how terrible it will really be.

it's really ideal for a crit-fish build... which isn't something anyone at this table is doing. :)

At best I'd only see you getting one attack off of the critical hit. You still only occupy one square, regardless of how many you can provide flanking from. I don't read it that you would get 8 attacks against a medium target.

Correct, that's not how I was reading it at all. But Combat Reflexes allows a crit fishing build to possibly explode someone, as they might crit multiple times, especially if they're getting free full BAB attacks every time they do crit.

For that last dose of ridiculous, add a dash of path of war.

Vital Strike might not be great for most crit fishing dual-wielders, but Mythic can make that a bit more worthwhile.

Hm... actually, with Weapon Style feats (or Fighter), the dual-wielder could actually gain the ability to swing with both weapons as an attack action, which makes this a bit more bonkers... ugh.

Yup, it's generally a thing that the Doctors 'age out' of their companions. 11, I feel, did it more than 10, because there's all that offscreen time where he goes from 'amazed by all life' to 'war doctor all over again.'

Well yes. But 10 didn't out-age Martha and Donna, they aged out of him.

@Outflank: That's definitely not how it works (not even if you add paired opportunists!) If you crit against an enemy, it provokes an AoO from everyone you're flanking with at that point in the round... since those people are all essentially "shadow copies" of yourself, treat them as wooden tokens unable to actually make an AoO. Since they can't make an AoO, you can't either, not even with paired opportunists.

@Crit fishing: Teniel is actually a crit fisher (why I picked a nodachi). But most of the crit feats are less useful in a high-powered game, and the good ones either require a swift action (ugh, no) or won't come online until around level 11-14.

@Seize the opportunity: This is a terrible, game-ruining feat that was clearly designed without any thought for balance, given its lack of prereqs. Vital Strike, especially with mythic, means you can make a dozen full attacks per turn. (Or just stick this on a snap shot hackbutter, and boom, melee doesn't exist anymore). Being able to bull rush without moving with your enemy is actually a huge advantage, not a drawback, and being able to dirty trick multiple times per round with no investment is TREMENDOUSLY dangerous.

Basically, if one character with a reach weapon and Enlarge Person has Seize the Opportunity, melee combat no longer exists in your game. (something that normally takes around 5 feats and 10 levels to set up). Since it can be accomplished at level 1, ugh.

Now, an appropriate nerf for that might be limiting seize the opportunity to 1/round (or 1/5 points of BAB)

I'm on the side of the fence that most of the PoW stuff is overpowered and game breaking. I think the concepts are pretty cool, but the specific abilities are more powerful than anything else in Pathfinder. I personally like to stage things, watch as plans come together, or see the dominoes fall. Anything that connects the dots really. Perform A to trigger B to initialize C that engaged D and finishes the chain. To me, most of the PoW stuff goes straight to obliterating D while skipping A, B, and C. Okay, it's powerful, no doubt about it, but it's also often boring. I don't enjoy 1-hit kills. It's not challenging.

@Champawat: I don’t define game-breaking as “over 9000 damage” but as “this is so good, it makes other choices pointless.” In that regard, I agree with you about a lot of the PoW stuff being game-breaking; they load the classes up with so many goodies and occasional too-powerful powers (there’s a stalker art that’s basically “immune to crits, and also most attacks,” available at level 1) that you basically can’t justify playing a regular martial alongside one in a non-gestalt game (or at least justify not dipping one). And therein lies the problem: I love martial classes, and PoW classes are NOT martial classes—they’re Vancian spellcasters. A vanilla + PoW game is a game where everyone has to play a Vancian spellcaster, and that’s not the flavor of game I’m into.

Donna didn't age out, though. She borked. :P

I barely remember Martha. :(

You are flanking with yourself, and are your own ally. It's pretty clear on the RAW side. I agree with you on the RAI side, though. :)

I read the 'you can't move' part of bull rush as preventing you from pushing them further than 5 feet, leaving you with the minimum result, every time... given that my understanding is that 'you may choose to move with them, and if you do, keep pushing'.

I think the problem with Path of War is that it takes the strongest type of character early game, and makes it better at early game. Then makes them less attribute dependent, which in turn gives them a better late game. But they still wind up as mostly linear characters, in that even a max level path of war character is only about as effective on the 'spells' side as a bard or magus, which is nothing compared to a wizard or cleric. :)

I prefer to use mine as flavor, when I do it at all. Arguably, I nerfed Maks's healing on the paladin side quite a lot, and gained very little aside from 'always act during the surprise round', at least for now, with my cheese dip.

What I -really- prefer, is dipping a class around level 7, so you can make the character a little more interesting. I.E. trying to convince my Reign of Winter DM to let my rogue/investigator snatch up some Steel Serpent abilities so I can use poisons without hemorrhaging money. Two poisons per combat with decent (not amazing) DCs is pretty reasonable, at least to me.

Likewise, I'm going to be taking levels of Warder with my mythic ranger each time I take legendary item with her shield. It's thematically awesome, and it gives my mostly martial character more high level options.

I think that ultimately, path of war could do with archetypes for their classes that don't have maneuvers, moreso than adding archetypes that get maneuvers to classes that don't.

Because some of those classes are amazingly cool flavorwise. (Raven Harbinger, Light Mystic, Hawkguard Warder...)

You can totally skip the A/B/C or you can add flavor that doesn't penalize you quite so much as normal flavor. (Like say... making poisons to use that cost you 600 gold a pop to not be mostly worthless.)

@Teniel: Don't forget the rogue archetype that trades, I believe a few talents, to gain permanent invisibility as a swift action, that also adds your int to your stealth mod. Also level 1.

Actually, what I just said is a pretty huge lie, if unintentional. My warlord dip is ridiculous, in that it effectively guarantees that Maks makes a will or fort save, eating an immediate action, and healing me for my trouble if I do.

That's the main reason I can't really understand the Derro ruling. Triple stacking charisma to effectively give yourself a 5% chance of failing a will save cast by a god is... Silly.

I barely remember Martha. :(

But she was the BEST ONE! D: D: D:

You are flanking with yourself, and are your own ally. It's pretty clear on the RAW side. I agree with you on the RAI side, though. :)

you provide flanking from all squares you attack from. (and) You can effectively flank with yourself and with multiple allies when using this feat.

So you are flanking with yourself, okay. You get one AoO. You can only flank with yourself *once*, though, not multiple times, so it doesn't balloon out of control.

Because some of those classes are amazingly cool flavorwise. (Raven Harbinger, Light Mystic,...

Yeah... I stuck a bit of Mithral Current on Teniel because I do like the flavor of a sword that, instead of not wanting to be sheathed (there's lots of myths about this) instead wants to be sheathed as often as possible. (Also, at level 6-8, it'll boost his flagging AC up to where the rest of the party is).

Makoto 'Maks' Kasumi wrote:

I barely remember Martha. :(

But she was the BEST ONE! D: D: D:

First time through the show, Martha was my favorite, I think largely just because she was just such a large contrast to Rose, who I thought was a git (now I realize that I'm far more annoyed by the way the Doctor acts around Rose than Rose herself). On later viewings, I think I started to like Donna more. Maybe partially because she wasn't in love with the Doctor. Also sass. Plus then there's The Ballad of Russell and Julie.

Rose has zero survival instinct, and on many occasions made decisions so dumb they threatened the very existence of life in the universe. Donna also has no survival instinct, but isn't quite a menace to society. Martha, by contrast is a more intelligent character than the average 8th-grader, giving the Doctor an actual reason to travel with her.

I flank each time I attack during a full attack, as long as I have teleported to a flanking position. What makes you think that you stop flanking with yourself immediately, even though it says 'you flank for the rest of the round'?

My favorite companions, in order, are Jack, Rory, Amy, Rose (I'm a sucker for the bad wolf thing), Donna... then anyone else. Unless River counts. <3 me some River.

@Makoto: We were never going to *give* the woman a mind-control necklace, I'm pretty sure everyone agreed on that. We were just going to lie about it, which is where the "whoops, forgot that paladin" bit comes in.

I prefer to believe that there is a case to be made that lies can be honorable, and it's specifically dishonor that lies are attached to.

Oh, sure. Just—a bit of difference in handling this situation.

I feel like whatever Rose did, the Doctor did worse. Namely, "Oh yes, let's totally let the Dalek free to kill the entire world just so I can spend a few more minutes talking to Rose." The whole, "I killed her once; I can't do it again!" thing was BS.

I love River though. Even if she does make me really sad. And Jack. Rory I was originally not a fan of, but he definitely grew on me.

Also, if the necklace does have mind-affecting stuff on it, Teniel could always make a big show of "changing" Mak's mind. Maybe give us a better position to bargain from.

Sadly I haven't watched Doctor Who since Doctor 5, maybe a little of 6.

I'm old :(

Oh, and preparing the answers to all your questions. The next bit of stuff with the party will be understandably complex and full of intrigue and is the sort of thing that can go off the rails easily, which makes it SO FRIGGIN' EXCITING! ahem..

Sadly I haven't watched Doctor Who since Doctor 5, maybe a little of 6.

I'm old :(

I like watching Doctor Who with my mom because she watched the original when she was little. I tried going back and watching from the very start, but it was too painful for me. The first Doctor's personality just seemed really inconsistent and his granddaughter, who has theoretically done a lot of traveling/exploring before the series started, acts way too freaked out by everything. I also saw some cowboy episode where they kept repeating the same few bars of some "Last Chance Saloon" song at the beginning of every episode. Which wouldn't have been so bad if the episodes hadn't been so short.

I still kind of want to watch more of it though since I'm reading a fanfic with Jo Grant + whichever Doctor traveled with Jo (3?).

As a heads-up: Today is my last day at mthe first job I ever had. I've worked here for just shy of nine years... But I've decided I need to move on to a job that pays better... As a result, I'm going to be picking up a lot more hours at work, changing my schedule in the process, and ultimately having a lot less time for those things and people that I love. That being said... I'll become less of a post hog in the majority of my games. Things might change in the future, but at the moment, I'm hoping to continue playing in my games.

Congratulations. It's tough to move on but when you do it feels good usually.

Hopeful but anxious. Its a huge pay increase, when money is my primary source of stress. We'll see how it all works out. :)

Okay... wealth tracker time!

@GM: When you said we "split" wealth with Alree-An, was that 50/50? If so, we've got a crafting reserve of 17,400 (provided someone in the party can sell the +2 cutlass), of which Teniel's crafted 3k.

1) Who was taking the two cloaks of resistance? I believe we decided this, but I don't know if people have updated to reflect them.

2) Does anyone want to head into town to buy better armor, or will we just keep wearing sailcloth and wood? (Either way's probably fine for now)

No Alree An, just takes her 1/6th share of what your group was left with after Miar and her crew took their part.

Ah. That leaves us exactly 29k of wealth (down to 26k after first four days of crafting).

Just a heads up, I'm going to be at a reunion from Friday until Sunday afternoon, so my posting might be sparse.

On an unrelated note, were we trying to spend some of that 26k before the party/in the days leading up to it?

If people had shopping needs, go nuts! (Regular armor, etc.) Only like four days of crafting, though.

Champawat, did you want to carry the necklace and make the switch, as the most dextrous? Or should I or Lucina hold onto it while you go spy on our host?

Also, does anyone have a better plan than "Makoto fascinates, while Teniel uses the necklace as a prop to summon ponies, and then it gets swapped in the process?" That's the best I can think of.

I think I have the best sleight of hand modifier and a good stealth, and I can use inspiration to add a d6 to the roll, so yes. I believe with the hat I can even look like someone else the moment after I pull the switch so hopefully I can get lost in the crowd right afterwards.

Okay. Lucina and I also have good stealth, but Teniel is probably the most outgoing around strangers. Would Lucina be interesting in sneaking around during the party?

Hmm, now I'm curious what everyone's characters' Myers-Briggs types are. Champawat and Tavros are almost certainly introverted; I think Teniel is probably ENTP, but more strongly so than I am.

I believe the I in I/E for MBTI actually refers to if you introvert or extrovert your primary function and less about if you are an introvert vs extrovert. Or at least, that's the theory behind it. For all I know the actual implementation has diverged from that.

Also, I believe we were told that the "Try to use the necklace as part of a show" stunt wouldn't fly.

Lucinas likely to be hiding anyway so if you her a goal that works

Man I wish I had gone for spellsong this level...

Should Teniel have hidden behind a curtain to cast Darkness? Because that would certainly be a distraction...

EDIT: Hmm, just re-read Shadow Enchantment, and that thing is amazing. Guess there's no reason for Teniel to get Hold Person or Suggestion if he gets them both at level 6.

Also, how do we want to scout the rest of the party? Teniel can try to mingle; does anyone want to look for Notosake with magic, or just eavesdrop on Lady Whatsit's conversations?

So... this is awkward but... hey, I'm back! YAAAAaaay?

lol, what happened?

Well, the short version is that I fell into a pretty bad depression, dropped out of school, went to the hospital twice, and moved back in with my parents.

Looks like a LOT has happened in my absence, as I would expect. I'd love to get back to playing, either as this character or a new one, though.

I'm really sorry for disappearing on you guys without warning. Life was just... really hard on me and I kinda shut down.

Welcome back. We do have a spot open on Table 6, we can probably get you in there, and maybe bump you up a level. It would be rather inexplicable to put you into this table again, as well as no open spots. Let me know how that sounds. No reason to create a new character as that takes too long to review and what not.

Sure. I imagine I'm way behind, and I've definitely forgotten all the homebrew rules after all this time, but I'm sure I'll pick it up again with help. A link to Table 6 would be helpful. Once again, I'm really sorry for poofing on everyone.

Well, we had wondered, but real life pulls people out sometimes, other tables have had people succumb to jobs and health issues. Glad you found your way back.

Table 6

Welcome back Mlinzi and grats on the recovery