Monster Mashup - Table 1 (Inactive)

Game Master CaveToad

Re: Proficiencies: I discovered that what weapon you wield only matters if the maneuver says so (many Broken Blade call for unarmed strike, natural weapon, etc.; Many Piercing Thunder call out for polearms/spear; Many Scarlet Throne call out for one hand empty).

Instead, using the proper weapon increases the DCs of the related saves by 2.

*Takes the gold star*

Yeah, I... am generally not a fan of the flavor of Silver Crane, at all. You stab people so hard that it HEALS wounds? That makes no kind of sense. But it's your character.

Actually, comparatively speaking... you tend to stab people a lot less hard than the other traditions.

I also disagree with Silver Crane being Extraordinary, rather than Supernatural... and have no qualms about changing it if you'd like. It really should be.

That being said, it's no more 'makes no sense' than Godless Healing.

Eternal Guardian on the other hand is very Supernatural.

As for Pamburu, are you aiming for 'Up the Walls' or whatever it's called? :)

Edit: Where it normally says whether they're supernatural or not, it didn't say anything, but at the header of Silver Crane in the main maneuvers section, it says they're supernatural.

So it's no more 'odd' than a paladin being able to lay on hands. Or shadows being quasi-real and able to touch stuff. Think of it as a Sarenrae thing. Sun burns, but sun also nourishes.

On the topic of shadows touching things, how does a shadow conjured unseen servant work?

I was originally aiming for Branch Pounce, before I realized it was mediocre. But I'm going for Up the Walls + Psionic Charge + Open Minded (and possibly Unlocked Talents). The idea is to turn him into an incredibly mobile platform that can charge anyone from anywhere, which will make up for his slow speed until he gets aegis + haste and switches to coordinated charging (I might actually try to grant the whole party coordinated charge through Battle Song of the People's Republic, if it seems useful)

A shadow conjured unseen servant is just a regular unseen servant, except it's seen. I believe it only takes one round of performance, but ends when I cast another one.

We have a -lot- of melee, so it very well could be. It would also be great to just start a fight 'well... it's dead.' :P

I'm still waffling on a ton of stuff for my character. Waaaay too many options, and I'm not doing it in a way that's conducive to finishing. Like... in any particular order.

RE: Speed of thought:

Unhindered Way (Psionic)
Prerequisites: Speed of Thought, proficiency with medium armor.
Benefit: Your speed is not reduced by medium and heavy armor, and you can gain the benefit of your Speed of Thought feat while wearing heavy armor.

Might also be worth.

I need to go read up on cheese dips.

For my monk ki power, I'm thinking about getting the ability that makes it so I only have to eat 1/4 as often and I only have to sleep 2 hours each night so long as I have at least 1 ki point. Then when we rest, it'll only take 8.5 hours.

Gaaaah... *flails*

Mithral Current would be sooooo cool if Maks didn't use her weapon as an instrument. (Emphasis on Drawing Weapons, but also DANCING, but moreso Drawing weapons. :()

Are you interested in PoW at all, Tavros? Chumbawumba?

I am, but I'm really not familiar with Path of War. Also I'm now realizing that one PoW feat I took is worth at least 2 monk abilities.

While leveling up, I just realized I did my HP wrong and I should have had much more HP. So now I'm going from 33 to 64. -_-

Yay! I'm at 69 though. Teniel has this weird thing where his "effective" HP basically doubles every two levels (it was 26 at level 2, 69 at level 6, will be around 129 at level an thanks to perma-displacement be effectively 300 or so vs most attacks at level 8)

Like, seriously, Teniel will be able to tank Xanya in a few levels. Feel free to stand behind him, all ye with reach. (though his AC is still terrible, hmm...)

I haven't quite finished, but here are the highlights thus far this level up.

I still need to pick a monk power. I'm deciding between Ki Metabolism (eat less, sleep less, hold breath for hours) and Deny Death, leaning toward the latter.

I also still need to pick a cheese dip.

@CaveToad: I may have asked this already, but for the FPP, does applying the Special Material to my amulet (which will be of mighty fists) just change the physical amulet, or does it also affect my unarmed strikes/natural weapons?

Oh! Other things.

Tavros, why not just take this spell? It brings us down to 8 hours for the whole party.

@Makoto: Maybe! Was honestly just going to leave him in agile breastplate barding, though.

Because I want my two 2nd level spells? (Mirror Image and Flame Sphere)

Also because eating less and holding my breath for 16 hours sounds cool

That's fair! Keep Watch is a good spell, though.

Pamburu gains:
-Int +1 (so +5 skill points)

His Int would still be so low that he is effectively at minimum skill points per level I think (whatever the companion chart says)

@CaveToad: I may have asked this already, but for the FPP, does applying the Special Material to my amulet (which will be of mighty fists) just change the physical amulet, or does it also affect my unarmed strikes/natural weapons?

For non-weapons it doenst do any good, really other than maybe making it harder to sunder. For amulet of the mighty fists like things, it would not transfer to the person's natural attacks/unarmed strikes.

@Tavros: PoW Expanded has you covered a little. I'll link some of the cooler stuff for you!

Now I'll just... go away with my tons of spoilers for now!

Maks can pick up Lesser Restoration (From Life Spirit), which is really fitting for her as a caster, but might be less useful than ideal. Given that it is already on Teniel's spell list, we don't really get 'much' out of it. While he might not take it as a spell, we could still get relatively easy access to a wand that does it.

I would Like to take it, but do not want to take something that we don't feel will be very valuable. Specifically looking at Teniel to let me know if I'm being dumb. :P

Edit: Also, really leaning towards taking Commune with Birds for a Bard spell... because Disney Princess...

Hmm, I guess this means all my FPP will go into whatever companion I get with leadership.

@Maks: Actually, thanks to feral combat training, I totally get to treat my horns as unarmed strikes. ;-) Although between ki strikes and my arcane pool making powering up my horns easier, counting as silver/cold iron/whatever isn't quite as useful. But some of the other things you listed sound interesting. I'll look into it more...probably this weekend since tonight is IRL D&D and tomorrow I'm going to see a movie with people.

Enjoy both! Anything you find here that you like, I can let you know if they've changed wording for. :)

Edit: Also, at level 5, I could try to take Craft Wand, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and slap Inscribe Magical Tattoo on Maks, if we think that would be cool. (I do!)

Though it might be better to spread out the item creation feats. :) (Still wanna...)

Makoto—I'm extremely starved for Oracle spells known. Feel free to take it.

Also, and I forgot this earlier, either Lucina or Teniel could take Make Whole as our level 2 spell known (and then retrain it at level 6). This would make ship repairs pretty trivial, as it would let either of us heal ~50 points of damage to the ship a day, targeting large sections like planks or sails.

Also I forgot how important it was to learn Darkness as an oracle spell so I can Shadow Grasp it. Since I haven't done anything yet, I'm changing Teniel to learn Make Whole this level, and Silence as a bard spell instead of an Oracle one.

Also fixing Pamburu's stats. Will get an action up in a second.

Makoto: Craft Wand isn't very useful to a spontaneous caster until we hit mythic, since you need to know the spell you're putting into the wand. Otherwise, probably not bad.

* * *

Also, if we have mundane equipment to sell and gems to enchant it with, can Teniel use that stuff to start crafting the party wondrous items?

Meanwhile, I'll take a redundant combat feat with my weapon, and retrain the redundancy into Raging Vitality once we get to a city (or find a Barbarian pirate prisoner who can teach me)

Addendum (because I forgot this was a thing): hoo boy, Track Ship. It's not useful now because we don't have a piece of another ship, but hooo boy.

* * *

Also: Don't forget about armor, everyone! Teniel as small will need it crafted, but could benefit most at the moment from studded leather, while Pamburu will eventually want agile breastplate barding (not useful until he grows).

I'd like to budget some cash aside (don't know how much of the loot the captain will let us keep, but I'd guess most or all since we saved their lives and are helping them fix their ship) to buy crafting components. Specifically, Mithral.

Teniel's dream armor, the Mithral Do-Maru, will require at least 1,333 gp worth of mithral to craft. Makoto, I assume, would like the same (or go for the cheaper but less-samurai Mithral Chain Shirt + Armor Kilt, with a price tag of 667 gp). At a craft skill of +10, the first option will take 12 weeks to craft, and the second option even longer, which is... kind of absurd. So it might make the most sense to spend 2,000 gp and pay a smith to make those armors, or wait until we get fabricate and stick to something mundane until then.

* * *

So that might be less important than wondrous items right now. Depending on what from gems/gold/silver etc. does or does not count as crafting materials, everyone in the party should be getting at least 4,000 and up to 8,000 gp in crafted wealth. If it's 4,000, Teniel will be getting a Belt of Con +2 (and if around 8,000, also either a headband of +2 cha or circlet of persuasion).

Otherwise, start your requests? I've added a "wishlist" to the spreadsheet under "carrying" (Tavros, can you change Mlinzi's column to Champawat?

What sort of math are you using for that? Using unchained crafting gives me very different numbers unless I'm just being silly (and screwing up).

I'm using "it costs 1/3 the price of something to craft it" which is ollllld RAW. Also RAW: DC 20 crafting, if you're taking 10 and have a +10, gets you 40 gp/week of crafting.

Also, the Unchained Crafting rules make zero sense—ALL they do seems to be slow down and increase the DCs for crafting weapons and armor (and with Gunsmithing rules, you previously didn't *need* to make a check to craft guns)

If I'm not mistaken, Mithral Full Plate is much faster with the new system. I might well be mistaken, but I believe it's twice as fast, if you can hit DC 35.

Also, with MWK Artisan Tools, I can hit a DC20 every time. If I put a rank in it, and guidance myself as well, I can hit a DC25 every time. With a Crafter's Fortune we can hit DC30. :)

Sadly, Crafter's Fortune is not something Maks can do.

I haven't really done the math on new v. old, but I definitely prefer new, as it actually has DCs beyond 'hand waves'. :P

The napkin math suggests that the old way is faster for (10-25 DC) simple items by a small margin (shrinking as you rise from DC10), and slower on items starting at DC30 or higher by something like 30%. I think Mithral Kikko comes out 30% faster in this way, if you can hit DC 30.

That also assumes full cost on items being the 'when it's done' GP value rather than the cost of the materials. Do you know which you're supposed to use?

Hmm. Crafter's Fortune is something the party might be able to pick up...

But yes, the old system is faster until we hit DC 30. At DC 30 and above, it switches (at DC 35, it's much faster; but at DC 40, it's blazingly fast). Which... okay, let's see, we can work unchained craft. (Turns out I was wrong about crafting costs and the new system is cheaper, let's have some fun with this...; and time depends on the base cost, but also not the special material, according to old RAW)

So let's game this further. If you put one rank into a craft, it becomes +12; with masterwork and guidance, that hits +15. Crafter's fortune, for +5, gives us that DC 30.

Mithral Medium Armor is DC 25. Speed doubles if you can hit 30, for 16 gp/day. Which is okay, but not great....
this means masterwork Kikko armor (the one I actually wanted before I got confused) in 36 days, and chain shirt + kilt in 45 days.

This isn't super great, regardless. I'm not keen on spending months and months crafting masterwork mithral armor. Maybe I'll see what we can buy in town.

@Champawat: how would you feel about picking up Crafter's Fortune (since you'll probably have more level 1 extracts than you need at L3) and Infusions? (Infusions are kinda fun in the long run for things like Long Arm) No pressure either way, but it would generally be neat to have a way to spread around Crafter's Fortune.

We can also try to push it on the hug cow. Or I can bite the bullet and take a dip in investigator :p

Cow can't learn wizard spells. Crafter's Fortune potions *are* an option, though. Wizard is actually a cool cheese dip, but not really what I wanted to go for.

*However,* Crafter's Fortune DOES let Teniel craft magic items much faster, too.

Oh, my bad. I was remembering Hug Cow as a wizard due to all cantrips. :P

I already have Crafter's Fortune. It ought to be a requirement if you have craft (alchemy). I wasn't going to take infusions any time soon with everyone having spells, but I can. I don't mind. I'll get another discovery next level.

Yeah... Infusion is actually ridiculously good with some of the "self only" alchemist buffs you get later (imagine Lucina with Fluid Form!). But it also means that you can buff people without ever taking the time to cast spells yourself, which is really good once you get Combine Extracts.

And, hmm. Anybody else excited about wondrous items?

I always am, but I am doing so many things. You're also generally better at 'need' versus 'want'.

Since my IRL game was cancelled tonight, I've had some time to look over the PoW stuff. I just want to make sure I'm understanding the terminology correctly (someone, probably Teniel, once told me PoW is basically a spellcasting mechanic for warriors).

- A "discipline" is a spell list.
- A "maneuver" is a spell that you can cast, so "maneuvers known" = "spells known" and "maneuvers readied" = "number of spell slots" (except you can only prepare one of each maneuver).
- You can regain spent maneuvers during combat in the way specified in the text.
- "Stances" are cantrips + styles (since there's a cost to switch between stances)

I also have a question about the Myrmidon fighter's grit: does the 'killing blow with a maneuver' work with non-lethal damage?

Thus far the Mithral Current thing is looking pretty cool. Especially since it's all about dancing.

Discipline: Yup
Maneuver: Yup
Refresh: Yup
Stances: Ish. Stances are a separate class feature for the most part. You cannot take a stance in place of a maneuver or vice versa. But otherwise, they're basically super-styles.

Stances -do- count as a maneuver known for terms of what maneuvers you can learn.

1st or 2nd level: Any number of maneuvers within the discipline.
3rd or 4th level: At least one.
5th or 6th level: At least two.
7th or 8th level: At least three.
9th level: At least four.

Unlike nearly everything in pathfinder, a maneuver counts for its own prerequisites (as long as you qualified to get it in the first place.) So, you could learn a first level and third level maneuver of a discipline, then retrain that first level maneuver either into a completely different discipline, or into any level maneuver you qualify for. (In this example, up to fourth).

I'd say it's the same as grit for anyone else. 'Ask your DM if unconscious counts.' I as a DM would rule 'sure!', as the intent to me is more 'defeat a worthy foe', not 'reap their souls!'

Destroying an unattended object, reducing a helpless or unaware creature to 0 or fewer hit points, or reducing a creature that has fewer Hit Dice than half the myrmidon’s character level to 0 or fewer hit points does not restore any grit.

This implies to me that killing definitely is not the important part of grit/panache, but rather 'removing them as a threat'.

Since I'm about 90% sure I'm going to wind up with Myrmidon/Weapon Master Fight as my cheese dip, I'll pose the question to the DM.

@CT: Myrmidon has grit which can be regained in a number of ways. One of the ways is

When the myrmidon reduces a creature to 0 or fewer hit points with a maneuver or with a weapon she has Weapon Focus with, she regains 1 grit point. Destroying an unattended object, reducing a helpless or unaware creature to 0 or fewer hit points, or reducing a creature that has fewer Hit Dice than half the myrmidon’s character level to 0 or fewer hit points does not restore any grit.

Do I have to be doing lethal damage to regain grit for the above? Or does knocking someone out with non-lethal damage work?

Also, @Maks, the Mystic also looked kind of cool but it seemed like the kind of thing I'd want more than just a cheese dip of (so maybe for Twin Mind). It could be a fun alternative for rage; both deal with forces you can't really control, so they're what Tavros has been internally struggling with and would be cool to see him come to accept rather than repress that. It's also probably more useful than rage because then he can still cast. But...that's also who knows how far off, so we'll see. :-)

@Champawat: I still remember that you suggested Warpriest as a possible cheese dip (or, at least, I think that was you), but I think I got most of the benefit when I took Serene Stride. Just wanted to acknowledge that that wasn't forgotten.

Hmm, actually, I might go with not Mithral Current/possibly a different class just because all the sheathing/drawing is going to wind up being a fair amount of investment to pull off. So now I'm leaning towards Mystic for the Elemental Flux discipline. *continues to look around and be undecided*

Elemental Flux is definitely awesome. We have to set up a way to handle it if you go Mystic. I'd suggest cavetoad just roll a d(x) each round and you gain access to the maneuver that the roll corresponds to alphabetically.

I'm actually planning to trade iron tortoise for elemental flux as well.

Things I'm deciding for Maks that I'd like folks to weigh in on:

At this level I can choose between detect alignment at will (the normal separate read spells with the same rules as detect magic) or the ability to grant protection from evil whenever I guardian shield someone. The one I don't choose waits until level 7.

Which does the group think is better?

I'm planning to take battle song at six... I think. I'm currently leaning towards escape route, which allows for lots of movement shenanigans when we're together, but am unsure.

At level 7 I plan to take triple time. I won't need the spare first level slot, and I'll be able to hit everyone with it, then.

The archetype I'm planning to take on warlord for Maks has a strange thing going on for it: It has a class feature that says it replaces the level one bonus feat, but it changes the bonus feat within the same archetype and specifically says I get a bonus feat at first level. What do?

Steelfist Commando is the archetype in question.

I would definitely like featherstep slippers when we can afford them. Maks has the spell, making it ridiculously easy and cheap for anyone who wants a pair. (Teniel succeeds on a natural -4. He can make two a day on a natural 1. Assuming Cavetoad would allow to pairs of the same object to be made in the eight hour time frame.)

Also, reflecting headband of cha, which adds so, so much.

I can't imagine what Miyu needs that we can currently provide, but I'm leaning strongly towards 'tattooing' him rather than real items. It feels really fitting.

That would be 3k for +2 int next level!

I think it just adds the caveat that at 6th level and on, you can replace the bonus feat with a rogue talent, but it is worded unexpectedly. At 1st level you'd still just get the bonus combat or teamwork feat.

I think the PFE power is better, but also more timely at the later level. I would go with detect alignment now, but that's just me.

Triple Time isn't as cool as I once thought, since it's basically only outside of combat, but it's still neat.

Detect Alignment at will is very niche, but not bad at all (is it at will, or constantly? Because aura sight is far better).

Teniel can craft those slippers fast without needing the spell. One day of crafting. Add it to wishlist!

* * *

For those of you who have played with me before, I find it highly amusing that I'm building the character with the simplest mechanics/math.

(Elemental Flux sounds like a nightmare! But it's also how all spells work in 1st Ed. Basic/Expert, for anyone who's played that—I do not have fond memories of being a Priest in B/ED&D)

I can't edit the sheet where I am. I'll get it when I can. :)

It is definitely 'at will' which means also concentration. I like her being able to tell... But ugh.

Aura sight isn't even on my lists. I can also take other powers, as well if it just doesn't seem worth it. Similarly, if we can do permanent Aura Sight via an item, I vote we slap it on Miyu (for whom it just makes sense.).

Aura Sight is for Permanency, though. It's pretty nice.

Tavros was pretty simple until Maks was all, "LOOK AT THE COOL POW STUFF!" :-P

Well, also, Elemental Flux isn't complicated. It's basically 'You have a spell, you can amp it once. At 7 you can amp it again. At 14 you can amp it again. You use a (move?) action to change what element you use with it.

It's Mystic that's crazy. Mystic is awesome, though, in that you can basically just take card sleeves and fill them with cards that say what your ability does, and just draw from the deck and discard to determine what you get to do. It's cool. Probably less powerful due to the coolness.

Right, sorry. Mystic is the one that reminds me of B/ED&D. Randomness is cool, but a pain to ever actually use.

My problem is that I think I really want Mystic as more than a cheese dip. :/

Also, ugh, Makoto, I just realized that you add +2 to the DC of my intimidating people

...which would be a problem if I weren't at, like, +22

Do I have to be doing lethal damage to regain grit for the above? Or does knocking someone out with non-lethal damage work?

Unconning them with nonlethal counts for me.

So, I guess I'll be keeping the psionic feats away from Pamburu until we hit twin mind (and bank the FPP). Got it.

@GM: Other questions—can Teniel use any of the recovered loot as crafting materials?

So, I guess I'll be keeping the psionic feats away from Pamburu until we hit twin mind (and bank the FPP). Got it.

@GM: Other questions—can Teniel use any of the recovered loot as crafting materials?

Potentially, as much of it qualifies as masterwork, or at least precious metals and gems. What isn't directly usable to enchant, could be melted down or disassembled (perhaps at a loss of value) to utilize for crafting. The kicker is that you still need 'magical reagents' as well. Some of the cost of making magic items is rare and precious oils, herbs and other stuff like eye of newt blah blah (I know this isn't exactly RAW but I'm not a fan of 'throw a pile of gold on the floor and voila a magic item appears'. ) So essentially it will require a trip to town before you can start whipping up magic items, but there will be some time savings of acquiring valuable or masterwork versions of some things.

Ah, got it. Was going with "carve some gems in a magick-y way" but I guess that's not quite easy enough. So we'll sail to port, sell things, and then maybe charter a boat of our own? (Or possibly pay the captain for part of the pirate ship, unless we want to stay on land for a while).

Other GM question: If he can't craft until we get to town, can Teniel instead try to retrain a feat from the Captain, Alree An, or one of the crew members/other party members? (assuming it's close to five days).

Feats I'd be interested in retraining into (and if not, I can always retrain later, no worries):
-Raging Vitality
-Additional Traits
-Spellsong
-That one that gives me level one maneuvers that Tavros is taking (as little as I like PoW, I could use a stance if everyone else is planning to take one)
-Tenebrous Spell