Sharding weapon
Flying Blade Swashbuckler
Throwing Weapons have actually gotten a lot of love recently. Also, I disagree on the 'Snap Shot' thing. I think you can use it with thrown weapons, but it's a pretty big feat investment.Link me stuff that is good and I'll look at it tomorrow night. For tonight I'm just going to head to bed.
I did mention flying blade earlier. That also stacks really well with the pow stuff. Sadly, if you take both, then you are moving quite far away from the dual caster route. Though you could multiclass (more on that below).
One option that could work well is Magus//Wizard which at level 7 starts autocritting due to named bullet(which despite the name does work with thrown weapons) + spellcombat + broad study(not sure if you need the ranged magus archtype to work with spellcombat). Of course that's even further away from your concept. Throw on a level of stalker(cheesedip?) and mythic improved critical and you are looking at a 5x modifier on every single hit. Regaining Panache was never so easy. The magus could be kensai (but it doesn't have to be, kensai doesn't stack with dervish defender anyway). A magus could pull this off without adding wizard at level 10.
Due to practiced initiator you can pick up 3-4 levels of flying blade then go warder after and still get maximum initiator levels. This works well with the magus//wizard combo. I would obviously recommend the deadly agility route if you go for this as it's only a single feat.
Two weapon fighting sadly does not work with flying blade (and I don't believe CT would allow that either), though it doesn't work with magus either. Flying blade does work with flurry though, but I'm not sure if magus does. If magus does it would be great to tack on flurry somehow, though you would need crusader's flurry in order to do so.
Comet style is also excellent.
And you can't RAW snap shot or rapid shot with throwing knives, but deadly agility, flurry, and precise strike make up for that pretty nicely.
I was going to suggest that you look into ranged weapon tricks to add a little bit to your fighting style, but it suffers from the same problems as the other things on GM Fiat. If you don't treat thrown daggers as a ranged weapon... *shrugs*
That being said, they still qualify for many ranged-boosting abilities alongside melee-boosting abilities, and having options is its own bonus.
@CaveToad: what's your personal rule about the feats that enhance/modify summoning (like Augment Summoning, Sacred Summons, etc.) and the Shadow Conjuration from the Wayang Shadowcaller Bard Archetype? Would they apply too? I'm not wanting to start a discussion about wording, RAW or RAI, just to find out your thoughts :)
@CaveToad: what's your personal rule about the feats that enhance/modify summoning (like Augment Summoning, Sacred Summons, etc.) and the Shadow Conjuration from the Wayang Shadowcaller Bard Archetype? Would they apply too? I'm not wanting to start a discussion about wording, RAW or RAI, just to find out your thoughts :)
Just popping into say that RAW you're effectively casting Summon Monster, just with a different DC, different school, and quasi-realness; so they work just fine (there's an FAQ where the devs confirm this) unless there's a GM injunction against it.
If there's a dev FAQ confirming, then fine by me. Might be nice to have a link for it so all involved can read and learn from it before we move forward.
So who are the submissions? This has gotten cluttered with lots of chatter that are not submissions.
Hmm, looks like I might be wrong and it's not as official an FAQ as I thought. This thread is what I was working with, but looking back at it it's pretty shaky.
That said, the question is "does a spell mimicked with shadow conjuration have the same subschool" (summoning) as the actual spell; if so, augment summons works normally, if not, it doesn't.
There's no official FAQ as far as I know. It's fairly shaky, like thunderbeard said - Shadow Summoning is an illusion effect, not conjuring. I'm not sure if augment summoning, harrowed summons, sacred summons, skeleton summoner etc. should work with it - hence why I asked. The way I understand it, it goes by what the GM feels like. I asked because I had a Shadow Caller / Master Summoner thing in mind, but it'd only work if the feats would enhance the shadow summons.
To this point, it comes also the question as to how it exactly works by the GM view. Then again, my question is to the GM and HIS interpretation, I'm not trying to discuss rules here. Some people say that the bard spends one round of performance, it creates the illusion effect and it stays there for rounds/level without having to spend more bardic performance to maintain (in theory, a bard could be casting each round and adding more illusions around). Other people interpret that they don't stay for the duration of the spell they're based on, but for however long the bard would keep performing (so they could stay for longer, and maybe even linger depending of what the bard had going on).
These seem to be the submissions:
Crest, The Wave Terror
Blaire background Blaire crunch
The following are also submitted, but it's impossible to find full information based on what is in the thread. Was the rest sent privately to CT? Our table at least want to be able to look over potential applicants so we can advise CT on who we want before he makes his selection:
Amelanchier Green-Mender
Yraazhin
Longirus of the Lantern (I for some reason thought this was complete, but I can't find the background anywhere).
And finally one incomplete:
Lily
Regarding Shadow Puppeteer's Shadow Puppets ability, at one point SKR did say that the effect goes away when bardic performance stops, though it's still able to linger if your performance lingers, etc. That said, I don't think he worked on that book so.... you know.
I will get the latest list up on the campaign tab with the status of the submissions, so its easier to see without filtering through pages of chatter.
Regarding Shadow Puppeteer's Shadow Puppets ability, at one point SKR did say that the effect goes away when bardic performance stops, though it's still able to linger if your performance lingers, etc. That said, I don't think he worked on that book so.... you know.
This is correct, but there's not a lot of reason to be using other performances as a low-level puppeteer (and as we've seen at table 1, the puppets go down easily)
@Xanya: I, and I think a few others, messaged CT to keep clutter down (whoops, I know, I'm like the #1 clutterer here). But Amelachier was a primarily melee build I was playing around with, and figure it's not what your table would be looking for (and also, as an extant player, wanted to make sure it stayed low in table priority)
I might be the most vocal of the table (at least in this thread), but that doesn't mean my vote carry more weight than any other. If the others all disagree with me about what we need, then we might come to a different conclusion as to who to pick than what I would come to on my own.
I find it ironic that the very thing we want to save from the clutter is what is removed to make it less cluttered.
I have the finished crunch for my character, but have not posted it here/messaged it in, as I thought Cavetoad would appreciate less things to look through until he's finished filling in Table 7. My submission is more intended for if he decided to restart another table, which I believe is still up in the air.
Also, being yet another melee, I'm pretty sure your table wouldn't like Yraazhin either, Xanya. :P
I have concept and crunch, but as I said before - I'm respecting what CT said and giving space to the new people before trying for a second character.
I put together a short little psuedo backstory. I'm sorry it's not much to look at, I just didn't have much in the way of writing in me.
Finally got around to finishing my full background. Feedback is welcome, especially from people familiar with the history, etc., but really from anyone. It's updated in the alias as well.
Crest spent his life before Goodwin trying his best to embody the ideals he barely understood. Born curious, but impatient, Crest spent less time studying the Brackish Emperor, Kelizandri, than did many of his peers, and instead spent his time trying to live the ideals-- Destruction, Evil, and Fear-- which generally resulted in Crest spending much of his time above the waves rather than below them. Here, he would torment the coastal cities and their ship traffic, often resulting in some sort of damage and destruction, but always beginning and ending with Crest exercising his considerable talents for fear and terror.
At a certain point, the human communities reached a breaking point, and decided to take action against Crest. It didn't take long after their decision until Crest was in a trap by the humans. During the 3 days alone in a dark holding tank en route to shore, Crest had much time to think, and started questioning Kelizandri himself. Was he about to pay for his transgressions with his life? Was it worth it? What had he accomplished, really?
His prison tank was offloaded almost immediately upon arrival and was opened carefully. Shamefully aware that he'd been bested, Crest stood still as his hands were shackled to each other, then tied to a short line looped around his tail, preventing him from getting far even if he could somehow make it through the crowd that had gathered and get into the water. In short order Crest was hustled off to a warehouse, accompanied by only a handful of assistants and a few sailors. As Crest peered through the door, he made eye contact with a powerful-looking man, only to immediately look away, embarrassed. "Yes," he heard the man say, "this is the one. Thank you, all."
Accompanying the man he later learned was named Goodwin, Crest spent much of the next decade of his life finding inner peace, most notably by turning away from the teachings of Kelizandri. Goodwin however, encouraged Crest to continue to develop his talents for fear and intimidation, teaching him that there would always be those who needed to fear something. In time, Crest developed a talent for magic, communing with the spirits of the water itself. After realizing that even Goodwin's library held little information on Kelizandri's defeated rival Lysianassa, or at the least learning that Goodwin wanted Crest to discover the path for himself, Crest committed to doing just that.
Adjusted lily to drop hawkguard/zwei stuff. She's just a dervish defender/Cleric/Diviner now. When path of war expanded applies I'll probably opt for riven hourglass instead of eternal guardian, but I haven't actually added any of those maneuvers as their skill is autohypnosis which seems prohibited until the twin-mind reveal.
Female kitsune warder (dervish defender) 3/cleric 3/wizard 3 ( [PoW], Pathfinder Player Companion: Animal Archive, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 4 175)
NG Medium humanoid (kitsune, shapechanger)
Init +3; Senses low-light vision; darkvision 120'; Perception +11
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Defense
--------------------
AC 17, touch 17, flat-footed 16 (+2 Dex, +1 shield, +5 Int(untyped))
hp 54 (3d12+18)
Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +8; +2 vs. spells and abilities originating from evil-aligned sources (sacred bonus), +2 vs. spells and mind-affecting effects (morale bonus), +2 vs. death
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Offense
--------------------
Speed 40 ft. (30 Race + 10 Exploration Domain)
Melee starknife +6 (1d4+3/×3), starknife +6 (1d4+1/×3)
Special Attacks (Maneuvers)1 flurry strike, 1 outer sphere stance, 1 pride movement, 1 silver crane waltz, 1 swift claws, 2 defensive step
Special Attacks channel positive energy 6/day (DC 14, 2d6)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 3rd; concentration +6)
. . 3/day—dancing lights
Domain Spell-Like Abilities (CL 3rd; concentration +8)
. . 8/day—bit of luck
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 3rd; concentration +8)
. . 2nd—locate object[D], spiritual weapon, summon monster II
. . 1st—bless, bless, divine favor, silent image[D] (DC 16), weapons against evil
. . 0 (at will)—create water, light, mending, stabilize
. . D Domain spell; Domains Travel (Exploration subdomain), Luck (Imagination subdomain)
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 3rd; concentration +8)
. . 2nd—create pit[APG] (DC 18), create pit[APG] (DC 18), see invisibility
. . 1st—burning hands (DC 17), burning hands (DC 17), burning hands (DC 17), heightened awareness[ACG], mount
. . 0 (at will)—detect magic, prestidigitation, ray of frost, read magic
. . Opposition Schools Enchantment, Necromancy
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Statistics
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Str 16, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 20, Wis 20, Cha 16
Base Atk +3; CMB +6; CMD 23
Feats Augment Summoning, Channel Smite, Combat Reflexes, Deadly Aim, Fey Foundling[ISWG], Guided Hand[UC], Quick Draw, Ricochet Toss, Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus (conjuration), Spell Focus (evocation), Spell Specialization[UM], Toughness, Two-weapon Fighting
Traits fate's favored, kami respect, magical lineage
Skills Acrobatics +10 (+14 to jump), Appraise +11, Climb +7, Diplomacy +9, Fly +8, Handle Animal +7, Heal +9, Intimidate +7, Knowledge (arcana) +9, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +9, Knowledge (local) +9, Knowledge (martial) +9, Knowledge (nature) +9, Knowledge (planes) +9, Knowledge (religion) +9, Linguistics +11, Perception +8, Profession (architect) +9, Profession (astronomer) +9, Profession (baker) +9, Profession (barrister) +9, Profession (brewer) +9, Profession (clerk) +9, Profession (driver) +9, Profession (engineer) +9, Profession (gardener) +9, Profession (gladiator) +9, Profession (librarian) +9, Ride +6, Sense Motive +11, Spellcraft +11, Swim +7; Racial Modifiers +2 Acrobatics
Languages Aklo, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Elven, Ignan, Sylvan
SQ able assistant, Aegis, arcane bond (arcane familiar, fox [valet]), Armiger's Mark, change shape, Defensive Focus, door sight, forewarned, kitsune magic, prescience, two-weapon defense
Other Gear starknife, starknife, starknife, cloak
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Maneuvers
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1 Encouraging Roar (Not-Readied, 1/Encounter) (Ex) Boost - Until next turn, all allies gain a +2 morale bonus to all attacks and damage.
1 Enduring Crane Strike (Not-Readied, 1/Encounter) (Su) Successful melee attack heals the initiator or ally within 30-ft 1d6 points of damage.
1 Flurry Strike (Readied, 1/Encounter) (Ex) Make two quick attacks on a target enemy.
1 Leaping Dragon (Not-Readied, 1/Encounter) (Ex) Make an Acrobatics check to jump as a swift action with a +10 bonus.
1 Outer Sphere Stance (Ex) Stance: When wielding two weapons, disciple inflicts an additional 1d6 points of damage per attack, -2 to AC.
1 Pride Movement (Readied, 1/Encounter) (Ex) Boost: Grant an adjacent ally a move action.
1 Silver Crane Waltz (Su) Gain a +4 bonus to initiative checks and +2 to Reflex saves and to AC, increasing every eight levels.
1 Swift Claws (Readied, 1/Encounter) (Ex) Strike: Attack a single target with two wielded weapons.
2 Defensive Step (Readied, 1/Encounter) (Su) Make Perception check opposing opponent's attack roll, if successful make a free 5-ft step to evade the attack.
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Special Abilities
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Able Assistant (Ex) A valet's master treats the valet as if it possessed the Cooperative Crafting feat and shared all Craft skills and item creation feats he possesses. This ability replaces Alertness.
Aegis +1 (10 feet) (Ex) +1 morale bonus to AC and Will saves for allies within 10 feet
Armiger's Mark -4 (5 rounds, 6/day) (Ex) Marked enemies get -4 to hit creatures other than you and suffer +13% to ASF for 5 rounds
Augment Summoning Summoned creatures have +4 to Strength and Constitution.
Bit of Luck (8/day) (Sp) Target takes the higher of 2d20 for a d20 roll.
Change Shape (Su) Assume a single human form.
Channel Smite Channel energy can be delivered through a Smite attack.
Cleric Channel Positive Energy 2d6 (6/day, DC 14) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Cleric Domain (Exploration)
Cleric Domain (Imagination)
Combat Reflexes (9 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Darkvision 120' See in the dark up to 120 feet.
Deadly Aim -1/+2 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Defensive Focus (10ft) (Ex) Increased threatened area, can move when making AoO, +8 to CMD vs. Acro to avoid AoO
Deliver Touch Spells Through Familiar (Su) Your familiar can deliver touch spells for you.
Door Sight (8/day) (Su) By touching a door for 1 minute, use clairvoyance on the other side.
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Enchantment You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Enchantment school.
Familiar Bonus: +2 to Reflex saves You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Fey Foundling Magical healing works better on you
Foresight Associated School: Divination
Forewarned 1 (Su) Can always act in surprise rounds.
Guided Hand May use Wisdom modifier for attack rolls with favored weapon
Kitsune Magic Kitsune add 1 to the DCs of any saving throws to resist enchantment spells that they cast.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Necromancy You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Necromancy school.
Prescience (8/day) (Su) Roll a d20 at the beginning of the round, and use that result as the result of any other d20 roll before the next turn.
Quick Draw Draw weapon as a free action (or move if hidden weapon). Throw at full rate of attacks.
Ricochet Toss Throwing weapon returns immediately after attack is resolved.
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.
Spell Focus (Conjuration) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.
Spell Focus (Evocation) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.
Spell Specialization (Burning Hands) Pick one spell and cast it as if you were higher level
Two-Weapon Defense (Ex) Gain INT to AC when dual-wielding and wearing light or no armor and no shield.
--------------------
Birgitte, Arcane Familiar
Arctic Fox (valet) (Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 112)
N Tiny magical beast (animal)
Init +2; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +10
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Defense
--------------------
AC 16, touch 14, flat-footed 14 (+2 Dex, +2 natural, +2 size)
hp 27 (1d8+1)
Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +4
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Offense
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Speed 40 ft.
Melee bite +4 (1d3-1)
Space 2½ ft.; Reach 0 ft.
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 1st; concentration -1)
. . —prestidigitation
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 9, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 6
Base Atk +3; CMB +3; CMD 12 (16 vs. trip)
Feats Skill Focus (Perception)
Skills Acrobatics +8 (+20 to jump), Appraise +2, Climb +6, Diplomacy +1, Fly +12, Handle Animal -1, Heal +2, Intimidate -1, Knowledge (arcana) +0, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +0, Knowledge (local) +0, Knowledge (martial) +0, Knowledge (nature) +0, Knowledge (planes) +0, Knowledge (religion) +0, Linguistics +2, Perception +10, Ride +3, Sense Motive +4, Spellcraft +2, Survival +1 (+5 to to track by scent), Swim +6; Racial Modifiers +4 Survival to to track by scent
SQ able assistant, improved evasion, teammate
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Special Abilities
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Able Assistant (Ex) A valet's master treats the valet as if it possessed the Cooperative Crafting feat and shared all Craft skills and item creation feats he possesses. This ability replaces Alertness.
Improved Evasion (Ex) No damage on successful reflex save; half on failed save.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Prestidigitation (Sp) A valet can use prestidigitation once per hour.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
Teammate (Ex) A valet is considered to have all the teamwork feats its master has.
I'm still in the midst of building a signature item now since CT didn't catch my questions. The more I mess with it the more I kinda want it to be a storage solution of some kind - both to golfbag more starknives in the future, and to load up on esoteric odds and ends to fit the idea that lily doesn't ever want to be surprised again. I also like the feel of a cloak of many pockets for this, because it fits the image of being ready to go out in the cold and literally every second image I can find that might suit lily is wearing a long white or black cloak, so it's clearly part of her gimmick. Plus it's way more dramatic to draw starknives from a whipping cloak than to strap them to a bandolier like a hedghog impersonation...
Did anyone pick a non-weapon signature item I could look over to make sure I'm in the right ballpark?
@Longirus: If you're an Evangelist, you'll want to list either a deity or ideal that you evangelize, since it's important to the class. (Combining Devout Pilgrim with Evangelist only works if your domain is Chaos, Community, Liberation, Luck, Travel, or Weather domain (or the Exploration, Fate, Freedom, Trade, or Seasons subdomains if available in the campaign). It's fine to pick an ideal instead of a deity, but if so, that ideal should fit with your "theme."
@Ash: You can use FPP to add a bag of holding ability to your item (or handy haversack, or efficientt quiver); and adding a Blinkback Belt ability isn't bad either, since it makes ricochet toss no longer necessary. Might be better to start with a normal cloak of pockets, that gradually gets more magical as you level up. Several people have non-weapon items; it functions pretty much the same, just you'll be starting out with mundane starknives (and not a ton of them).
This is what I have so far:
Lily wasn't happy to be adopted, and cried for weeks when she first joined Goodwin's school. The golems dutifully collected her tears, and when she finally admitted that she had learned a great deal, and expressed her gratitude, the old mage gave them back to her transformed. A wondrously warm cloak, that shifts fluidly with every movement.
"For your memories, no matter how bad they may seem, are what make you who you are. Keep your tears, and learn from them. Life is about more than the moment, and I have always found that as you gaze upon grief, you often find wisdom."
-----------------------------
The Cloak of Tears
-----------------------------
Item Feats
l2 - Fortune Teller
l3 - Spell Focus Divination
-----------------------------
Magic Creation Pool (MCP 2000/3000),
1000 - Cloak of Resistance +1
1000 - Pathfinder Pouch
-----------------------------
Flexible Power Pool (FPP)
??
But I'm just guessing about values. It looks like MCP=WBL, and I have no idea how FPP is supposed to work.
@Ash check the bottom of the Campaign Info tab. I think thunder meant to suggest MCP instead of FPP for adding bag of holding qualities.
Hmm, looks like I might be wrong and it's not as official an FAQ as I thought. This thread is what I was working with, but looking back at it it's pretty shaky.
That said, the question is "does a spell mimicked with shadow conjuration have the same subschool" (summoning) as the actual spell; if so, augment summons works normally, if not, it doesn't.
Yeah that is hardly a FAQ, it was just one person asking a question and some guy (is he even a dev for Paizo, he had some fancy titles but it wasn't clear who he is?) responding sort of offhandedly and the other guy taking it as gospel because it was the answer he wanted.
I read over the archetype, ability and shadow conjuration again, and I when back and forth in my mind. So far I am leaning against it, since the bard ability uses shadow conjuration which is illusion and is mimicking the summon spells. The wording of Augment Summoning dictates that the creature is conjured, and you aren't conjuring them, you are creating illusions.
This is what I have so far:
** spoiler omitted **
But I'm just guessing about values. It looks like MCP=WBL, and I have no idea how FPP is supposed to work.
Adding the pouch effect will cost 50% more than the first effect added, so you would be at 2500.
You would have 1 FPP as a result of the expenditure based on the formula. You can spend the FPP (or bank it) on various abilities or powers (not all of them pertinent to your item) listed in that section of the signature item creation rules of the campaign tab.
@Longirus: If you're an Evangelist, you'll want to list either a deity or ideal that you evangelize, since it's important to the class. (Combining Devout Pilgrim with Evangelist only works if your domain is Chaos, Community, Liberation, Luck, Travel, or Weather domain (or the Exploration, Fate, Freedom, Trade, or Seasons subdomains if available in the campaign). It's fine to pick an ideal instead of a deity, but if so, that ideal should fit with your "theme."
I believe I declared "Luck" in my profile as my domain.
Ash/Lily can you create a profile alias for your crunch, so I don't have to refer to the post for all the info?
@Ash: I really want to make a magus starknife thrower now. Would that be ok or would you feel like I'm stepping on your toes? I guess I should wait and see if you are selected first, eh? If a 7th table is formed I wouldn't want to have such a similar concept...
Does Evangelist and Devout Pilgrim stack? Don't they have the same, "give up medium armor" issue?
@Ash: I really want to make a magus starknife thrower now. Would that be ok or would you feel like I'm stepping on your toes? I guess I should wait and see if you are selected first, eh? If a 7th table is formed I wouldn't want to have such a similar concept...
Does Evangelist and Devout Pilgrim stack? Don't they have the same, "give up medium armor" issue?
Quiet you
@Xanya: If you want to make a throwing Magus, check out Card Caster, they're awesome and unique.
Just as an FYI, currently I don't think we have enough solid completed submissions that I would start a new table yet. Maybe in the future, but don't let it prevent people from making crunches, it could happen.
There are so many things that are up to GM opinion/ruling for that throwing build build:
1) Does two weapon fighting work with spell combat assuming you use a throwing weapon and quick draw? You only have a weapon in hand at a time.
2) Same as above but for flying blade swashbuckler and precise strike.
3) Does flurry of blows work with spell combat (some say they don't due to spell combat sorta working like two weapon fighting)? There may or may not be people already using both in the game already.
4) Does a starknife count as a ranged weapon?
4a) Does rapid shot work with a starknife?
4b) Does Card Caster's Arcane Pool Focus work with a starknife
4c) Does Eldritch Archer's Ranged Weapon Bond work with starknife
4d) Does Eldritch Archer's Ranged Spell Combat work with starknife
4e) Does Eldritch Archer's Ranged Spellstrike work with starknife
5) Can Card Caster's Harrowed Spellstrike be used with ranged touch spells as well as melee touch spells?
6) What happens if Card Caster's Harrowed Spellstrike is used with something that allows multiple touches, like frostbite, can you keep holding the charge after the first one as normal?
You can't make spell combat work with literally anything other than spell combat. It's dumb but it's all faqed out as being awful. You can't flurry. You can't initiate maneuvers. You can, as a full round action, use the ability Spell-Combat, which then gives you all of your iterative attacks.
Starknives aren't ranged weapons, because they're not listed under 'ranged weapons' in the table. This is equally dumb.
You can rapid shot, but it isn't worth it, you only get 1 additive attack and take -2 on all your other attacks. TWF is the tree to pursue.
All the eldritch archer stuff is required to be a ranged weapon, so you're boned by the way starknife is categorized as light melee instead of ranged.
I didn't look into card caster.
(Some of this is why I was saying 'oh pathfinder' the other day). That said, I'm pretty happy with lily as stands. She's a utility caster that happens to starknife people if they get too close, which is where I wanted to be.
I'll see about throwing together an alias.
Given the way the item costing is structured, I should probably just put a haversack into a cloak for 2k, then bank the 1k remaining. At least I understand it now.
3: Definitely not with Unchained. Unchained's flurry is explicit.
4: Cavetoad said 'case by case', because RAW is definitely bonkers sometimes, so I'd hold out for explicit answers from him. :)
Spell combat requires a "melee weapon," not a melee attack, so it *does* work with starknives. And it gestalts really well with Flying Blade Cavalier (which also requires you to fight one-handed to get Precise Strike goodies). If you want to seriously ramp up damage, grab Duelist as well. You won't get a ton of attacks, but they'll each do horrible piles of precision damage.
Starknives aren't ranged weapons, because ranged weapons use very different mechanics from throwing weapons. Starknives CAN be twf'd, or if you want to get really fun, Agile for +Dex to damage on a throwing weapon.
* * *
Card Caster is thematically cool; harrow decks are treated as a ranged weapon, so you can use it with Snap Shot, etc. It's not a "power" build, though.
I looked into a Card Caster once, but it got annoying when the cards get destroyed because your deck doesn't work for harrowing. Maybe Tristalt you could pair it with a Cartomancer Witch and a ranger or something like that? Ranger for combat feats, BAB, HD, etc., and Witch for hexes and 'returning' on your cards?
Spell combat requires a "melee weapon," not a melee attack, so it *does* work with starknives. And it gestalts really well with Flying Blade Cavalier (which also requires you to fight one-handed to get Precise Strike goodies). If you want to seriously ramp up damage, grab Duelist as well. You won't get a ton of attacks, but they'll each do horrible piles of precision damage.
Starknives aren't ranged weapons, because ranged weapons use very different mechanics from throwing weapons. Starknives CAN be twf'd, or if you want to get really fun, Agile for +Dex to damage on a throwing weapon.
* * *
Right, you can regular magus with them for this reason, but you can't use the eldritch archer magus which requires spell combat to be a ranged weapon.
CT, what about arrows for bowyers and the restriction on equipment? Are we still using the 40 arrows from the initial post? Do we need anything besides the Craft skill to make more?
The new players will be from the crop of NPCs in Cliffort with Tolhemia. They have done well enough for themselves to acquire some basic equipment, although the fort doesn't have a pile of stuff to dish out. For now, just don't select any gear, but you will have reasonable starting equipment. Not anything near WBL but at least some basic stuff.
Roger. I will have crunch ready this Sunday - since I'm an existing player, I don't mind be picked after the new guys.
I'm still waiting on the answers to the questions I put in the spoiler above. Though filling the current tables take priority of course. Mainly I'm wondering what magus archtype to take in order to make spellstrike work with starknives (if any).
Xanya, Card Caster is the best for thrown.
But does any of it's abilities actually work with starknives? And if so, how? All it's abilities seem rather ambiguously worded and hence up to GM interpretation, which is why I asked my questions. I see now that even the spellstrike is worded to only work with "thrown ranged weapons" which starknife might not qualify as.
Xanya, I can answer your questions RAW or by googling dev FAQs, barring GM interpretation differently (which is always more sensible).
It's not an official answer, but I think RAW says no. It's described as working with "one weapon," which implies "one hand" when throwing (and as far as I know it must be the *same* hand free for the entire full attack, which makes sense because you're using that hand to cast).
2) Same as above but for flying blade swashbuckler and precise strike.
Probably not? With TWF and quick draw I've always assumed you throw both knives roughly at once; otherwise, you're ruing for the ability to aim really fast.
3) Does flurry of blows work with spell combat (some say they don't due to spell combat sorta working like two weapon fighting)? There may or may not be people already using both in the game already.
Nope
4) Does a starknife count as a ranged weapon?
Nope
4a) Does rapid shot work with a starknife?
Nope (see 4)
4b) Does Card Caster's Arcane Pool Focus work with a starknife
Nope
4c) Does Eldritch Archer's Ranged Weapon Bond work with starknife
Nope
4d) Does Eldritch Archer's Ranged Spell Combat work with starknife
Nope
4e) Does Eldritch Archer's Ranged Spellstrike work with starknife
Nope
5) Can Card Caster's Harrowed Spellstrike be used with ranged touch spells as well as melee touch spells?
Nope (must be a "thrown ranged weapon" e.g. shrunken)
6) What happens if Card Caster's Harrowed Spellstrike is used with something that allows multiple touches, like frostbite, can you keep holding the charge after the first one as normal?
Yes, because it is "otherwise identical to spellstrike"
Quassine is wrong—while Card Caster is okay with Harrow Cards, Darts, Javelins, etc (probably best for javelins), it's nowhere near ideal for a throwing magus, who can throw a melee weapon (starknives etc) with Agile or Deadly Agility for +Dex to damage, and precise strike with a swashbuckler deed, while also not being useless in melee.
In the Star knife's description, it states you can stab or throw it so Harrowed Spellstrike should work with it. You just can't use it to stab and spellstrike with it.
In the Star knife's description, it states you can stab or throw it so Harrowed Spellstrike should work with it. You just can't use it to stab and spellstrike with it but any arcane pool special abilities should still work.
No, dude, read harrowed spell strike to the end. "It can only be applied to thrown ranged weapons." Starknives are melee weapons, NOT ranged weapons, and different feats and effects apply to them differently. This is not ambiguous; the Devs intentionally made thrown melee weapons not count as ranged weapons.
In the Star knife's description, it states you can stab or throw it so Harrowed Spellstrike should work with it. You just can't use it to stab and spellstrike with it.
When you throw something, it becomes a range weapon. If not, then they need to remove throw from Star knife description.
This is something for Cavetoad to discuss. He's already stated that he'll have to look at abilities with thrown weapons and DM Fiat them (at our table). Until he gives an opinion, it's officially 'in the air'. Anything that we discuss is RAW v. RAI, and we aren't determining the DM's RAI.
My version of RAI is that you should treat a thrown weapon as ranged while it's being thrown, possibly to the detriment of the player (magus spellstrike, the ability to use dex to damage on a melee weapon, etc.) or the benefit of the player (the Distance effect can be placed on them, ranged spell strike, etc.)
Though Blinkback Belt is worded in such a way as to make it appear to support thrown weapons being melee weapons (and that you can't use a blinkback belt with darts)... yet, based on the magic weapon tables, Returning is not an option for melee weapons, only 'thrown ranged weapons' (Thus you can't have a returning throwing hammer (without the belt) if we stick to using 'tables' to determine what is and isn't correct as gospel).
[edit]Yet Dwarven Thrower exists. Is it an exception to the rule?
Finally, if a normal magus's spellstrike can be utilized on any 'melee' thrown weapon, what is the purpose of Spell Hurling?[/edit]
Side note: Would it be better if we moved discussion about additional characters that are already players to the discussion thread, or is it better to keep the conversation in recruitment as it directly applies to character creation?
I will have to look into all the throwing vs ranged stuff. It will take a but to track down and review. Its probably better to move to discussion, those interested can follow it there. Recruitment we can use purely for topics central to recruitment.