By the way -- isn't there a caveat in the charge action rules that specifies you can charge your distance as a standard action? Can't recall exactly why I've always run it that way, but I think it's out there somewhere in the rulesverse at large . . . .
EDIT: Ah -- only if you can *only* take a standard action that round. Hmmmmm.
Syrus, I'd probably rule dragging a helpless ally as a version of the drag combat maneuver except you're not overcoming a CMD because the object of the drag is both an ally, and unconscious. Probably I'd just have you roll a d20, and say each 5 on the dice is five feet, allowing you to go a total of 20 feet if you rolled a 20... I'd have to do a bit more research on it though, and right now I don't have the time. Sweet longspearing dude!!!
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I need to get into position for color spray. I was expecting the battle to come closer to the water, so I stayed further back, but not it looks like I won't be able to get into position this round. That's the only prepared spell I have left, but I also have my arcane bond, so maybe I'll try casting sleep.
I could also use the bag of tricks, but I only have a 10% chance of producing something that will even provide a flanking bonus. At best, they'll divert an attack away from one of the other characters.
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Oh, and after this, Kairon might want to keep Stabilize prepared. You don't need detect magic, plenty of people who have that (and once I get craft: wondrous, I plan to craft some spectacles that give the effect continuously).
Also, instead of using your action to move Grung, you might want to try to get him back in the fight by spontaneously casting Cure Light.
The CLW would be converted off bless, but I'm more concerned about ending the fight as quickly as possible. That, coupled with the likelihood of burning the spell and failing to render him conscious, inclines me more toward an attack option. Y'know -- reduce the chances for Mended to end us by ending his malevolent proxies. We'll have to see what happens next before I make a call one way or some other. The timber wolf is almost out of the equation, and the greased wolves will either be effectively eliminated by your color spray or my spear, in all likelihood.
Yeah -- very 4th/5th, that.
I hope you all have a wonderful holiday, guys! Whether you celebrate or not, I hope you enjoy yourself this weekend :)
Yep, best wishes from me too.
I spent most of Christmas eve roleplaying with friends, which was enjoyable.
Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night. :)
That is our possible plan for today; superheroes with Mutants & Masterminds 3rd Edition. Finally have a chance to play a classic speedster.
@Goruck - As a bit of strategy, if your attacks fails to kill the dire wolf, if you 5ft step to the side (west) then I'll be able to get Kanga there with a 5ft step and a Sudden Shift. Then the big cat can unload a full attack on the stunned creature. I think that'll be able to do it.
@Goruck - As a bit of strategy, if your attacks fails to kill the dire wolf, if you 5ft step to the side (west) then I'll be able to get Kanga there with a 5ft step and a Sudden Shift. Then the big cat can unload a full attack on the stunned creature. I think that'll be able to do it.
Baradim I think you might be a bit confused on how large creatures and movement works, or reading the rules of Surprise Shift wrong. Surprise shift doesn't allow an extra move action. If Kanga takes a 5' step he can't also surprise shift because that would be two move actions. Also it would take Kanga 15' of movement to go diagonal to the dire wolf. The second diagonal move costs 10'. If Kanga is going to move to the dire wolf, he'll only get one standard attack, not a full attack.
MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!!! :D
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Baradim I think you might be a bit confused on how large creatures and movement works, or reading the rules of Surprise Shift wrong. Surprise shift doesn't allow an extra move action. If Kanga takes a 5' step he can't also surprise shift because that would be two move actions. Also it would take Kanga 15' of movement to go diagonal to the dire wolf. The second diagonal move costs 10'. If Kanga is going to move to the dire wolf, he'll only get one standard attack, not a full attack.
Surprise Shift was errata'd. It's now a swift action.
Page 129—In the Skirmisher archetype, in the Hunter’s Tricks class feature, in the Surprise Shift paragraph, in the first sentence, change “as a move action” to “as a swift action.”
You can get the errata document for the APG here: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/resources
If you want to use it as originally written, that's your prerogative, but you should really let him switch out the trick, because the original version was completely useless. You couldn't do anything with it that you couldn't do without it, and you actually have fewer actions on your turn if you use it than if you don't.
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I was sure it wasn't possible to make an AoO while disabled, so I did some checking. It turns out that there isn't anything saying you can't, BUT I did find this under "disabled":
..but performing any standard action (or any other action the GM deems strenuous, including some free actions such as casting a Quicken Spell spell) deals 1 point of damage after the completion of the act. Unless the action increased the disabled character's hit points, he is now in negative hit points and dying.
Now, this has the obvious error that casting a quickened spell is a swift action, not a free action, but I think taking an AoO qualifies as a strenuous action (interestingly it doesn't actually say anywhere what type of action an AoO is). What do you think, Mended?
I'm not trying to rules lawyer over one point of damage to an already dying creature, I just want to work this out to see what actions really make sense when disabled (if you it's going to cause you to go from disabled to dying anyway, you will probably forego your attack of opportunity and hope that your attacker misses).
Well, I guess it kills that idea. I thought I'd be able to 5ft step as a my move action, then use the surprise shift to close in that last 5ft or in reverse order, if that'd work better.
Oh well, I guess we'll just move and attack. -_-
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Looks like all of the wolves are down except the Dire, is that right? He can't take any actions this turn, so it's just a matter of time. I imagine Chillel will use Ray of Frost, since she can't use Slumber on him again.
Btw, Chillel, it looks like you have the Extra Hex feat, but only one hex. What am I missing?
Martial characters will do martial things. If it comes around to Illiam's turn again, he could try to do one point of damage, but it would probably end up being nonlethal damage, which doesn't really help. Probably just hold action. Dolok will try Ray of Fire again, more martial stuff will happen. If everybody keeps missing, Illiam will try to put the wolf to sleep before it can act again, but it will take a lot of people rolling the way I was rolling back in town for it to get to that point.
If it is not dead already.
And that is exactly what I mean to do. I could try to Web Bolt it, but prefer to keep the spell.
What you are missing is Chillel has 2 archetypes, quite compatible, Invoker and Winter Witch. Invoker trades out the level 1 Hex, so the Hex I get from the extra hex feat is the only one I have.
The build I have in mind is very focused and eventually gets mega-good at dealing cold damage. The cost is I suffer in a lot of other ways, running the 2 archetypes costs me hexes left, right and center. And the hex I do get at level 2 will likely be fly. Not great until level 5 but I won't be getting another hex until level 6 or 7.
@Illiam, thank you for pointing out that errata, because I did not know that had taken place. I'm still not sure I would have allowed a 5' step and a 5' shift cover what should have been 15' in movement because of the diagonal, but it is very good to know that for future reference. My understanding of how the trick originally worked was that it allowed a 5' movement even if normally that movement would be impossible.
Also, the question about AoO's and disabled characters is a very relevant one. Technically AoO's are not any "action" in terms of action economy because they happen when it is not your turn. I guess they are sometimes called an "attack" action, which is confusing and doesn't help matters. However, just to be clear about it, even if the razorcrows had all three missed I would have dropped the wolf that final hit point into the negatives because of his attack. I realize you are asking this because it could affect PCs in the future, which is why it is such a good question. I DO rule AoO's when taken under the disabled condition, as that "strenuous activity" that costs your last hit point and drops you into the negatives.
Now, as for the battle. Merry Christmas to all! Between Goruck's thrust and Kanga's bite, you've brought the dire wolf to -1 HP. Unbelievable!!! I thought for sure I'd drop one of the PCs into negatives with that encounter. We'll have to see if anything else I throw at you causes a bit more difficulty... :)
Happy Christmahannukwanzaakuhyuledaymas, folks. :)
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Hey, don't go increasing the difficulty too much. If Grung hadn't been positioned to soak up all the damage, that encounter easily could have dropped 3 of us in the first round (well, the first round that we actually made contact with the wolves, anyway). Don't forget how little HP some of us have. By my calculations, Grung is two levels ahead of us, and with max HP, that means he has more hit points than our three arcane casters put together.
If they took out the wrong two of us, Illiam (who was pretty effective at preventing their attacks) and Scipio (who I think did the most damage, other than maybe Kanga), for example, that could have quickly turned into a TPK. As it stands, I've used all of my prepared spells for the day, and only have my arcane bond left.
Merry Festivus folks!
I look forward to more challenges. I didn't realize that so many of us martial types had reach weapons, I'll definitely need to get a little bit of armor for Kanga to try and make him harder to hit.
Otherwise though, excellent fight and good strategizing during it. Points to our spellcasters helping add in the damage and providing that beautiful battlefield control.
Mended -- The word "curare" for activating the wand Ardan provided: is the Latin for Draconic, Celestial, or some other?
I ask because I was thinking of using smatterings of koine Greek for my spellcasting. If the Latin is for Celestial, then it could be passed off as another indicator of Kairon's relative isolation during his training and formative years -- Greek and Latin being so similar and such. And this isn't to point toward a freebie language, but, rather, to speak as the goddess gives Kairon utterance.
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I was thinking that there shouldn't be one "magic" language. Rather, different spells have verbal components from different languages based on when, where and how they were developed (though Draconic would probably be a common one for arcane spells, and Celestial for divine). I would expect command words for objects (other than spell completion) to be in a language known by whoever crafted them, or even a nonsense word they made up, and not necessarily directly related to the spell's verbal component (if it has one).
On the other hand, for divine spells, verbal components might all be in the language of the deity that is providing them (whether the caster understands that language or not), thus two clerics of different deities would speak different words (or the same words in different languages) to cast the same spell. Baradim's spells (and probably those of the consortium's rangers, as well) should probably be druidic. An oracle's spells might be a form of glossolalia.
Still, the command words for magic items would be based on the language(s) used by the crafter, not the user.
As far as language for magic spells I've been playing it that Ignan - the fire language - is used for fire based spells. of course I don't think any of it really matters, just for fun & flavor anyways.
Yeah! I've really enjoyed the fact we've been using real-world languages for spells and conversation -- good "grokability" there.
I probably should set Kairon to muttering about the discussions he can't understand; but, then, pain is the language he knows best -- and how to silence it.
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As far as language for magic spells I've been playing it that Ignan - the fire language - is used for fire based spells. of course I don't think any of it really matters, just for fun & flavor anyways.
I figure that most arcane spells probably exist in more than one version that use different languages. It makes sense that there would be an ignan version of each fire spell. Besides, sorcerers might use languages they know for all spells, since they don't learn them from someone else. If Illiam were to learn a spell from Dolok (via a scroll that Dolok scribed), Illiam would have to memorize the Ignan phrase as part of the spell preparation.
Of course, this line of reasoning suggests that sorcerers existed before wizards. All arcane spells probably originate with a sorcerer, and wizards had to learn how to reproduce it from them.
Edit: except for Blood Transcription, Mnemonic Enhancer, and Mage's Lucubration, which are wizard-only. One would imagine that they came up with Blood Transcription to get access to spells that Sorcerers didn't want to share, so they killed them for it and drank their blood. Ew.
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A frying pan is much hotter than a boiling cauldron. You fry things at temperatures in excess of 200C, while boiling water can't get over 100C. Double boilers work by using an insulating layer of water so that the internal temperature can't get over 100C (which would otherwise require using a much lower temperature to avoid hot spots). Rice cookers also use this principle to tell when to turn off. When the temperature exceeds 100C, they know that there's no liquid water at the bottom of the pot.
Now the cauldron could be filled with something with a higher boiling point than water, Mercury for instance, but if you're in the room with a boiling cauldron of mercury, or probably most of the other things with boiling points significantly higher than water, you probably have bigger problems than the possibility of falling in.
Of course, the cauldron is more likely to contain something with a lower boiling point than water, rather than a higher one. Nitrogen, for instance, boils at a little over -200C, and falling into that, though definitively not hotter than the frying pan, is probably more deadly.
A post full of interesting and stimulating points Illiam. So much so you seem to have stunned Syrus to silence. But not definitive in all respects.
Firstly, you assume the frying pan is in use, which is not stated. If it is not, the frying pan would be at room temperature, which would of course depend on the environment.
Second, you discuss the various fluids that may be in the cauldron. However, the quoted remark refers to a boiling cauldron, not a cauldron containing a boiling liquid.
Unfortunately what the cauldron is made of is not stated. Some possibilities and their boiling points are:-
Iron 2,862 C
Tungsten 5,555 C
Copper 2,562 C
Bronze 950 C but varies with specifics of the compound
Sodium 882.8 C
Polonium 962 C
What is probably intended is the reference is to being ejected from a frying pan, of unknown temperature and composition, by an unstated method of propulsion into a first cauldron, composed of a substance of a relatively high boiling point, say iron. Inside this has been placed a second cauldron with a lower melting point, say polonium. Then both have been raised to a temperature at which polonium boils but iron remains solid. Iron melts at 1538 C.
This means if the chemical nature of the two cauldrons is as we assumed, the temperature must be above 962 C and below 1538 C.
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He couldn't have been talking about the cauldron itself boiling, because if it's a liquid, it's no longer a cauldron, and a solid can't boil. If it's going straight from a solid to a gas, that's sublimation, not boiling.
Also, is it really a frying pan if it's not currently frying? Maybe it's just a skillet.
The Oxford English Dictionary definition of frying pan in English:
"frying pan
(North American frypan)
NOUN
A shallow pan with a long handle, used for cooking food in hot fat or oil."
So the answer to your question is yes.
I think you are right on the other point. Probably the most sensible interpretation is one cauldron containing the boiling remains of what was once a second cauldron.
First off, I used the reference out of the frying pan into the boiling cauldron because crossing the river SHOULD BE a heck of a lot easier than taking on the wolves. So, the temperature would be a lot less deadly, and escaping it should be a lot less challenging. So, all you did Illiam, with your math and science, was prove my point. Thanks. You've escaped a very dangerous encounter, now you have a far less dangerous encounter that still needs to be tackled.
@Kairon and ipso facto Illiam. There is one small mechanical issue that I take with both of your searching for different languages to use as magic for various entities. It is this: Read Magic. If magic were written in different languages depending on who had done the writing, or who had invented the spell, then read magic would not work; you would need to cast this spell instead. In addition there is this little bit of rules language, which makes it very clear that:
To record an arcane spell in written form, a character uses complex notation that describes the magical forces involved in the spell. The writer uses the same system no matter what her native language or culture.
So great flavor/theory crafting both of you, but the rules say, no.
Now! The rules also say that the creator of a wand gets to choose the word for item activation. So it is entirely possible that the creator of the cure wand knew some Celestial, which would make sense for a caster of divine magic. So if we want to rule that Latin is Celestial, I have no problem with that, but the language of magic, is its own language, as per all the RAW I just pointed out. :)
@Kairon/Syrus... Looks like you and I are both early risers. :D Just wanted to make sure you knew Grung got back to 1 HP from your channel. So he is in the positives, barely. If you still want to use a wand charge, I absolutely see that as being a quality in character decision. Not sure the rest of the group, out of character, would like that resource used that way, but I know at least a couple of their characters would be eager to see it used that way. These are those situations where a player really has to say, "what would my character do?"
As for the early wakeup: I'm a victim of circumstance. :)
As far as what Kairon would do: well, I would think it pretty obvious. Another opportunity for drama. Yay.
First off, I used the reference out of the frying pan into the boiling cauldron because crossing the river SHOULD BE a heck of a lot easier than taking on the wolves. So, the temperature would be a lot less deadly, and escaping it should be a lot less challenging.
I thought we deduced that the cauldron should be filled with the boiling remains of what had been a second cauldron. That is going to be more dangerous than a frying pan any day of the week. Particularly if the boiling liquid is polonium, monstrously dangerous as it is very toxic and radioactive, or sodium, which reacts explosively with water.
First off, I used the reference out of the frying pan into the boiling cauldron because crossing the river SHOULD BE a heck of a lot easier than taking on the wolves. So, the temperature would be a lot less deadly, and escaping it should be a lot less challenging.I thought we deduced that the cauldron should be filled with the boiling remains of what had been a second cauldron. That is going to be more dangerous than a frying pan any day of the week. Particularly if the boiling liquid is polonium, monstrously dangerous as it is very toxic and radioactive, or sodium, which reacts explosively with water.
So you're saying you want me to throw a galvo at you?!
Not really no.
But it is neither a frying pan nor a cauldron.
Iron 2,862 C
Tungsten 5,555 C
Copper 2,562 C
Bronze 950 C but varies with specifics of the compound
Sodium 882.8 C
Polonium 962 C
Yep, people have gone crazy. I'm no expert, but I suspect that several of these would not even be in existence in this world?
In keeping with the tenor of recent posts: if Mended *throws* a galvo at us, since we're still on shore, we'll have a much easier time killing it.
@Dolok -- you have *no idea* how close I am to breaking out my . . . finger paints!!
Yes! Finger paints while using crayons!!!! Hahahaha!
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First off, I used the reference out of the frying pan into the boiling cauldron because crossing the river SHOULD BE a heck of a lot easier than taking on the wolves. So, the temperature would be a lot less deadly, and escaping it should be a lot less challenging. So, all you did Illiam, with your math and science, was prove my point. Thanks. You've escaped a very dangerous encounter, now you have a far less dangerous encounter that still needs to be tackled.
@Kairon and ipso facto Illiam. There is one small mechanical issue that I take with both of your searching for different languages to use as magic for various entities. It is this: Read Magic. If magic were written in different languages depending on who had done the writing, or who had invented the spell, then read magic would not work; you would need to cast this spell instead. In addition there is this little bit of rules language, which makes it very clear that:
To record an arcane spell in written form, a character uses complex notation that describes the magical forces involved in the spell. The writer uses the same system no matter what her native language or culture.So great flavor/theory crafting both of you, but the rules say, no.
Now! The rules also say that the creator of a wand gets to choose the word for item activation. So it is entirely possible that the creator of the cure wand knew some Celestial, which would make sense for a caster of divine magic. So if we want to rule that Latin is Celestial, I have no problem with that, but the language of magic, is its own language, as per all the RAW I just pointed out. :)
Far be if from me to argue with the GM, thereby proving that I'm not nearly as smart as I think I am, but I didn't say that the entire spell was written in a language that the person knows, just that the verbal component, the part that needs to be spoken aloud, might come from that language. The "arcane writings" are definitely not from some other language, and I don't even think of them as something translatable. It's more like one one big, complex arrangement of sigils and runes and such.
Yep, people have gone crazy. I'm no expert, but I suspect that several of these would not even be in existence in this world?Iron 2,862 C
Tungsten 5,555 C
Copper 2,562 C
Bronze 950 C but varies with specifics of the compound
Sodium 882.8 C
Polonium 962 C
Well, if the elements the chemical composition of Golarion is similar to Earth, which I am pretty sure it is, otherwise life may be impossible, then they will all be present.
On Earth they are all naturally present, though Tungsten is rare and Polonium is radioactive and only occurs naturally in the tiniest amounts and decays. The rest are all quite common and without sodium you won't have any salt [sodium chloride].
"Died" -- punctiliar, and, even in a world where magic works, would have called for a lot more "oomph" to have reversed.
Besides -- it was for the Monty Python reference.
Just wanted to let everybody know that I am here, and watching. There's been really nothing that I need to post about as of yet. Really, you guys don't even really need me until you get across the river, because you know all the DCs. So I'm waiting for you all to cooperatively decide and narrate the crossing.
A reminder about the crossing:
Then, of course, we have to talk about propulsion of the crafted raft (say that five times fast). Rules dictate either a Diplomacy or Intimdate check to "drive" a raft via muscle. That makes sense if the rowers are unwilling, but everyone on this raft wants to help get across. So instead what I'm going to do is have a static DC 13 STR check for each rower. If all four rowers make the DC 13 STR check, the raft moves 30' that round. If only 3 out of the four make it, it will move 25', if only two make it, then it only moves 15'. If only one rower makes the check the boat makes no progress. If not one of the four rowers makes the DC then the boat will actually give way to the current and move 30' down stream. Sound like fun?!
Here's the thing with that. I hinted at it, and it looks like Lunarinus is actually openly suggesting it. If you have six rowers, you've got a lot better chances of making progress every turn; however! I really need to adjust those previous numbers. I did the math, and it would require over sixty successful checks at the rates I previously quoted. Which is sheer nonsense. You'd be doing nothing but rolling dice. So, instead I'm going to change the distance on successful checks as follows.
- All six rowers meet or beat the DC 13 STR check = 530' of progress.
- Five of six rowers meet or beat the DC 13 = 400' of progress.
- Four of six rowers meet or beat the DC 13= 320' of progress.
- Three of six rowers ... = 200'.
- Two of six rowers ... = 100'.
- If only one rower beats the check no progress is made, but you don't slide downstream.
- If no rower meets or beats the DC 13 STR check in any given round you float 30' downstream.
Probably the easiest way to tackle this, once six oars have been successfully made, and those that wish to remove armor have done so and secured it to their liking, is just to put a spoiler post for all those that are rowing, and put about 10 to 20 STR rolls in it. Then we can wade through (<---- see what I did there) the results and figure out the progress, so I have a good idea of how to narrate the crossing. If you want to have Grung go across with you, and partake of the rowing, I'm going to rule (even though it isn't RAW) that he's at a -4 to his STR checks because of all the damage the poor hobgoblin has taken in the past 24 hours.
So for those that are doing the STR rolls it will look something like this:
The only thing that I think you *might* want to address is Grung's reaction to Kairon's urging him to cross with the group. Would that call for a Diplomacy check?
The only thing that I think you *might* want to address is Grung's reaction to Kairon's urging him to cross with the group. Would that call for a Diplomacy check?
I am/was actually waiting on that to see if others of the group give Grung the same urging. As of right now, only one person has really said they want Grung to come along. Grung has a lot to contemplate right now, and he's not the brightest bulb in the tree.