Mended Wall's PBP for beginners (Inactive)

Game Master Hoary and Wizened

I would bot the AoO. Don't like suggesting it, really, but your die rolls have been better than ours. lol

EDIT: I recommend a round of aiding and abetting, with the exception of finishing off Red. Kairon should probably 5'-step, convert shield of faith to CLW for Goruck, and draw the wand. Which eliminates my reach and Combat Reflexes as options on the table . . . .

Hmmmm.

EDIT 2: Can Illiam activate the animal growth wand? I thought Dolok was the party's UMD guy (Heh. Utilities of Mass Destruction.).

Have we had a ruling yet on how we're doing Sudden Shift? I'd like to do that sweet 10ft. step using that ability to get a full attack on the one to the South and just hope I don't die in the north. I'm also about 90% certain I'm dead, unless crazy shenanigans occur, and by using that ability and a five foot step, Kanga would be more useful to the South.

I'd turn Kanga loose on Purple -- protect his buddy, and all that. Especially so if he gets animal growthed.

I believe we can turn the tide; Baradim ain't finished yet. :)

I have UMD at +4. May be an option, if not a great one.

I don't think the last Tazlwyrm has grabbed Goruck, so web bolting it might help. Things are not going well as people have observed.

I could but that would end up being a single bite, not really the best chance of taking it out. If I head south, I could potentially take out the wyrm, allow Goruck to stand up after being healed without an AoO, and the group would be able to fully focus the power of a fully operational death star...err...party.

That and Baradim is a g#$!&!n hero, you all can save lives and he is willing to risk it to save his home.

Oh, the wand is divine, isn't it? I was thinking I could use it because the spell is on my spell list. Damn, there goes that plan, I don't have UMD trained, so can't use it.

Also, damn, a lot happened while I was sleeping. Gotta catch up...

Take a chance with the bag of tricks? Anything that can Aid Another to drop AC would be worthwhile -- especially for Scipio.

Ok, so this is what I was saying about the max hit points thing being bad for us. We all have normal hit points (PCs get max at level 1 anyway), but enemies last almost twice as long. Now I'm out of spells, and I'm the only one who could otherwise cause an early end to the fight. If things had their normal hitpoints, one of the earlier battles would have ended faster and I'd probably still have a spell to use.

Also, I'm assuming the module only called for one of these things? As we're seeing, this is a creature that has to be killed quickly or not at all, possible with one, but not with three at double HP. Rather than Illiam dying, this may end with Illiam, unable to do anything else, running away and being the only survivor. It's happened to me as a player before.

I drew a 30ft radius burst template and put it off to the side. I checked, and there's not place Kairon can go where it would hit Baradim and Goruck, but miss both tatzlwyrms. Depending on movement speed, he might be able to exclude one of them, but not both, and he'd have to move way out of the fight to do that. the 30ft radius burst is bigger than I realized, and this is a pretty close-quarters fight.

With Scipio's hit of the blue one, engaged with Goruck, a full attack from Kanga could conceivably drop it into unconsciousness. Kanga is within range of making a 5' step and still getting a full attack against the blue one.

Oh, also, yes the wand is divine, so UMD would need to be used by any of the arcane casters, or even a divine caster that does not have Animal Growth on their list.

1) If Kairon channels, Baradim can act, and Goruck might be able to do so (unlikely, as he's at -4, by my calculations). And undoes some of the damage on the tatzlwyrms . . . .
2) If Kairon wands Goruck, he goes to 0 hp at worst.
3) If Kairon converts his spell for Goruck, it might get him conscious.
4) If Kairon converts the spell for Baradim, he'll be able to act, direct Kanga optimally, and at least occupy Purple for one more turn.

Are you looking for suggestions?

More like hunting an angle of play . . . . :D

EDIT: Kinda like saying something out loud to get it to "make sense", y'know?

So, about that underbrush? I think Illiam's only logical option at this point is to hide...

Not to sound greedy, but if I can get some kind of healing, I can do more than just draw my dagger and look cool before dying. I can attempt an attack, since I'm fairly certain my +3 CMB will not get me out of this grapple at all. I'll still likely miss with the -2 on the attack roll but it'll be more than I am now.

I think healing the wyrms at all is a bad idea. They can easily one-shot any of us and we need every point of damage we can get on them.

I think fighting is the most logical, honestly. The more people alive, the better, and I think Illiam is intelligent enough to know he doesn't know his way around the forest :P

Your character though, you do you boo. :D

If the downed tatzylwyrm is still high enough to be brought up by a channel, I DEFINITELY wouldn't do that. Aside from that, the chance of getting both baradim and goruck up might be worth healing the other two a little.

Remember the non-lethal damage, though. Magical healing heals normal damage AND the same amount of non-lethal, so the tatzlwyrms would effectively heal more. The nld might be enough to keep the first one unconscious, but the others will lose theirs. I think I talked myself out of channeling being a good idea.

Here's the worst part: I can't move to Baradim to heal him without drawing an AoO from a foe that gets a free grab attempt on a hit. And there's about a 50/50 chance he'll hit . . . .

I thought grappling characters couldn't take AoOs against characters not in the grapple, but I can't find the rule.

That's a good point then. Sounds like you should take a 5-foot step back (we don't want to lose our healer), pull out the wand and use it on Goruck. Another advantage is that Goruck will act immediately, while there would be a tatzlwyrm turn before Baradim could act (or is that the downed one?)

Well, you have all the things there. I have a post ready for when you and Illiam go, we'll see how the dice end up going. I'm fine with whatever happens, I'll be sad that I didn't get a chance to see what a hunter can do when you get past the sludge that is level one but c'est la vie, I suppose.

Is the tatzlwyrm going to keep attacking an unconscious opponent when there are others moving around?

Red is tatz 1. He's out for at least an hour. I would provoke from Blue if I moved to Baradim, and a withdraw would preclude me doing anything. Looks like a 5'-step and stab Blue is the best option this round.

EDIT: With so many targets threatening, I doubt they would finish off a fallen meal. But I could be wrong.

Proposal:

Kairon 5'-steps, stabs Blue, draws wand. Baradim directs Kanga as dictated by the result of that attack (could crit for 15 damage minimum . . . . lol). Baradim likely goes unconscious next round, or Purple spends action getting out of web bolt. Regardless, looks like we've got to save Baradim to boost the chances of saving Goruck.

What do y'all think?

Sounds good to me dude, let's do it :D

Is it better for Kairon to attack or to give Goruck the ability to attack?

Yeah, that sounds good. Go for it! Dice luck!!!! :)

Edit: Honestly, I think it's better to attack. If you can drop two of these wyrms unconscious the party stands a WAY better chance of survival, especially because Tatz 2 (purple) is probably going to waste its action just trying to escape the webbing. One is most likely out of it, because even it stabilizes there's still the nonlethal damage it has to recover from. You drop three (red), then everybody gets to concentrate on 2 (purple) and it's all over but the tree-climbing to loot the nest.

Edit 2: To answer your previous question, as soon as someone passes out the tatzlwyrms will consider them no longer a threat, and will concentrate on another foe. This means if Baradim knocks himself out with a strenuous standard action, he's lying down but in no real danger of dying. Goruck is only at -4, so he's got a few rounds yet before he's gotta worry about actual death too. Hopefully by that time coup de graces have taken place and Kairon can just channel to heal everybody. :) See how optimistic I am?

I'm normally one that says healers should heal, and martials should fight, but in this instance if you could get into a position to get a flanking bonus, (Mended, possibility there?), you'd get +2 from flanking, and the thing is still taking that -2 from having charged. You've got a good chance to hit, if Kanga hits as well, we've got a good chance to drop blue.

Number one, wow! Yirangle graced the discussion thread with his presence.

Two. I drew a line from the center of the square that Kairon would be 5' stepping into to attack, to the center of Lunarinus' square. That's a REALLY iffy flank. The line is JUST barely touching the corner of the opposite side. But since I'm a nice GM, I guess, yes, I would allow Kairon to get the +2 for flanking from that square. Obviously I'm setting that precedent for future combats. Remember though what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Prepare for any enemies with reach to flank you all from that same positioning in the future.

Us right now. :P

Us right now. :P

The fight with the wolves was a CR6 encounter, this one is CR5. Also, the dire wolf was a CR3 creature, and these are each a CR2. By the math, this should be an easier encounter. The two big differences: distance (we could prepare and hit them before they hit us last time) and the lack of battlefield control/multi-target save-or-suck spells from Illiam.

Indeed. They're also in more favorable terrain, which can constitute an increase of CR +1.

Regardless, picture still stands.

Here we go, then!

Sorry for the delay, gang, but deliberation seemed in order.

FWIW, when I GM, I usually just say that any two creatures threatening the same opponent count as flanking, even if they're standing next to each other. I also don't use the grid nearly as literally, if at all. We also usually forget about flanking bonuses in that game, so it doesn't usually matter.

Wait, when they took falling damage, did that not leave them prone? If it did, that would make Kairon's AoO hit, which would make the blue one dying.

First paragraph under falling: "Creatures that fall take 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet fallen, to a maximum of 20d6. Creatures that take lethal damage from a fall land in a prone position."

That should reduce their AC and remove some actions due to standing up (or at least give penalties for attacking from prone)...

The AoO was only triggered by the falling, and not that he had completed falling. It was while he was in the air -- no hit.

First off, Baradim, that picture gave me a great gut-laughing guffaw, so thank you for that. Now to Illiam's point about taking lethal damage from a fall and landing prone. I had actually wondered about that myself. Something there in the back of the ol' noggin was niggling at me that these creatures should be prone. Here's the thing. If the creature actually succeeds at the grapple attempt, they aren't landing on the ground. They are landing "on" the enemy. So the one on Baradim is not prone, but I am willing to concede that the one that landed next to, not on because it failed the grapple attempt, Goruck is prone. Which means that if/when it tries to "stand" it will provoke AoO's. Now back to the action. If only Illiam could actually do some damage with that sling of his!!!

I don't think that's RAW, and it's kinda hard to buy that it landed on him if they're not in the same square, but fair enough. I did realize that I forgot the part about falling prone occurring after the AoO after I posted.

Also, realistically, someone being hit mid-air should at least be considered flat-footed. Might not be RAW (because raw has almost nothing to say about vertical movement), and I understand if the GM doesn't want to rule that way, but doesn't it make sense? I mean, they can't really do anything to not be where the person is attacking when it happens, even if they do see it coming.

Fwiw, flat-footed AC minus the AC penalty for charging would also result in that attack hitting.

Mended, you are always welcome to bot Goruck if I'm holding up the action.

Well...there went my self confidence to not die.

True -- aerial travel does have the drawback of predictable trajectory where leaps and falls are concerned. Just think back to all the times you've been sniped out of the air while playing Halo! Took me forever to learn to keep my juking to terra firma.

No big deal, though.

EDIT: Illiam -- never thanked you for moving the token. So, "Thanks."

AND!! And. Maybe mage hand the wand over to Dolok? Or hijack the CLW wand from Kairon?

I can't use the CLW wand. I could certainly mage hand the wand I have over to you, but that would require a standard action, and I took a double move. I would also have to move a little closer from where I am now.

Yeah, but you could move them toward Dolok, who may be able to skill his way to an effect we could use. I'm reaching, I know -- just throwing stuff out there.

It's been my experience that the dice go my way the more ridiculous my attempts, and the more imperiled my characters are. For instance -- if Mended had thrown Blue at me, rather than Goruck, he probably would have been dead before he hit the ground. Via a combination of terrible attack rolls and at least one massive critical hit. Too bad we won't know, huh? =D

After reading Baradim's last post, though:

No sweat. Unless that dude's got levels in "dracopaladin" or something, Blue is done!!

And it *would* be the itty-bitty-kitty that chained three hits in a row, wouldn't it?? Ha!!!

Kairon, Baradim, and Chillel should all have access to Stabilize. At least one of them should probably prepare it if we're going to keep getting encounters that are this lethal.

Baradim wrote:

Us right now. :P

The fight with the wolves was a CR6 encounter, this one is CR5. Also, the dire wolf was a CR3 creature, and these are each a CR2. By the math, this should be an easier encounter. The two big differences: distance (we could prepare and hit them before they hit us last time) and the lack of battlefield control/multi-target save-or-suck spells from Illiam.

Also very significant is I managed to put the dire wolf, the most formidable, out for an entire round at the start. That didn't seem great initially, but it allowed us to deal with the others in large part then gang up on the dire wolf. These damn things are immune to sleep.

Interestingly though, if I still had color spray, and if they didn't have 3 hit dice, they should get the full effect because the spell description says "unconscious" (as if they had nonlethal damage exceeding their HP) and not "asleep" or "slumber". Also means you can't wake them before the rounds of unconsciousness run out.

Edit: Also, this.

Kairon, Baradim, and Chillel should all have access to Stabilize. At least one of them should probably prepare it if we're going to keep getting encounters that are this lethal.

I disagree. At least, I don't believe we really need to keep it prepared. Stabilize may be an auto-pass, but it represents a loss of efficiency. Its usefulness is limited to in-combat timeframes, and in situations where it is indicated, CLW is vastly superior. Whether by wand, spell, channel, or other, a single point of healing is better than just stopping the bleeding.

This is why I asked Mended about what steps Kairon would need to take to replenish his healer's kit uses on his own. Treat deadly wounds may be a DC 20 check in the Heal skill, and it may call for two kit uses for each instance (to avoid penalty), but it does provide the chance of some healing.

I think this is what I'm trying to say: stabilize neither hurts the enemy nor puts an ally back in the fight -- not without additional help. Better to do what helps.

It depends on how much you care about a PC death, I guess.

Edit: also, CLW is touch, while stabilize has a range of close. That means that you can stabilize someone when you can't reach them, or use it without giving up position for an AoO. Lots of cases where that's a better strategy to prevent PC death.

I'm not saying it should be your first move when a PC goes down, but so you you don't have to leave the fight to keep a PC from dying.