This might interest you Varrel it is from Lords of the Empyrean...
New Feat: Celestial Obedience
Your reverence for an empyreal lord is so great that daily prayer and minor sacrifices grant you special boons.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (plances) 3ranks, must worship an empyreal lord.
Benefit: Each empyreal lord requires a different obediance, but all obediences take only 1 hour to perform. Once you've performed the obedience, you gain the benefit of a special ability or resistance as indicated in the "obedience" entry for the empyreal lord.
If you have at least 12 hit dice, you also gain the first boon granted by you empyreal lord upon undertaking your obedience. If you have 16 hit dice, you also gain the empyreal lord's second boon. If you have 20 hit dice or more, you also gain the empyreal lord's third boon. Unless a specified duration or number of uses per day is listed, a boon's effects are constant.
Mystery cultists gain access to these boons at lower levels as a benefit of their prestige class.
If you ever fail to perform a daily obedience, you lose all access to the benefits and boons granted by this feat until you next perform the obedience.
RAGATHIEL
General of Vengeance
LG, angel empyreal lord of chivalry, duty, and vengeance
Cult -
Holy Symbol bastard sword crossed with a crimson wing
Temples battlefields, castles, fortresses, headquarters of knightly orders, war rooms
Worshipers the avowed, knights, soldiers, the wronged
Minions aasimar paladins, blink dogs, kirin
Obedience Slay a proven wrongdoer in Ragathiel's name. It is not enough for the sacrifice to have an evil heart or evil intentions; the sacrifice must have committed evil or unlawful deeds. Gain a +4 sacred bonus on saving throws against spells and effects cast by evil creatures.
Boons
1: Virtuous Combat {Sp} bless weapon 3/day, litany of righteousness 2/day, or magic vestment 1/day
2: Retribution {Su} You gain a sacred bonus equal to half your HD on damage rolls with slashing weapons against the last creature to have physically wounded you within the last 24 hours.
3: Pure Soul {Sp} You can cast holy aura on yourself once per day. In addition to the effects of the spell, you gain DR 10 / good & cold Iron and you treat any weapon in hand as a +5 Holy Weapon for the duration of the effect.
Ragatheil, child of the archdevil Dispater and a goddess of fire, {Ashe: Sarenrae? :)}stands on the front line of war between Heaven and Hell. He carves through legions of fiends and drives back lesser evils with the mere presence of his awful majesty.
Ragathiel is a tower of glorious might. He stands almost 20 feet tall, and five lofty burning wings stretch from his back. The General of Vengeance once had six wings, but one was severed, torn from his body by Dispater himself.
Ragathiel's tainted heritage has left him with a wrathful heart, and the angel struggles constantly to master his baser impulses in service to the light. For thousands of years he strove to prove himself to the angelic choirs of Heaven. In the maelstrom he wrestled for 16 years with a monstrous evil serpent whose scales wept acidic blood until he was able to choke the life out of it. He led an entire army against one of the Iron fortresses of Avernus and burned the castle to the ground with holy fire, single-handedly maiming Infernal Duke Deumus in the process. Finally the other empyreal lords agreed to admit Ragathiel into their ranks, and now they appear to trust the angel completely - though that trust took centuries to develop.
Ragethiel takes an active role in the battle against Hell's fiendish legions. He shines at the head of his army, a figure of golden light cleaving through the ranks of devils that face him. Soldiers or all kinds, but particularly knights, pay homage to Ragathiel and pray for his virtue and wrathful strength in battle. Those who have taken vows, especially those of duty or vengeance, hold Ragathiel as their ideal, and his agents sometimes assist those who have been grievously wronged and now seek righteous vengeance.
The lower slopes of Heaven are home to Ragathiel's Fortress, a magnificent steel structure designed to withstand a thousand-year siege if need be.
---
Something to consider... at 7th level feat time! :)
It's a cool feat but to get it regularly I need to kill a dude just to get the boon.
A death a day makes Varrel a dour boy
By the way Megan the stairs do apparently go to this floor. Must be a fire code.. lol!
Or maybe they are liars! Smite!
Did ashe detect evil on the maiden's?
When we walked into the infirmary. I remember because Megan said they detected evil, but the doctors were neutral. Which I thought was odd, but I had forgotten the masks.
Detect evil is not a license to kill... :)
It is if he changes his name to 00Varrel.
Not it's not.
I would think Ashe would find it odd ALL of the Maiden's are detecting as evil!!
It's not a license to kill but Ashe is being VERY accommodating.
Varrel is being cautious.
Even IRL I have often found (especially working in court) that the only thing an evil person needs to commit a horrible act is opportunity or no fear of reprisal.
Evil guards+evil cultists= don't trust them.
Hahaha! No, Ashe does not trust them NOT ONE BIT! THAT is why he wants them close... very close. Ashe simply has absolutely NO FEAR of them. He knows he and his party can take them out anytime we want!!
Believe me he is well aware that they radiate evil but that is why he wants them close so he can watch them even closer! And the moment he has ANY evidence they are in collusion with the physicians... it is ON!
Ashe just happens to be a career noble and is quite good at putting on the polite face while plotting and looking for plots with full wariness! HE wants the Grey Maidens to think he trusts them... then they think they have the better of him... ALL Wrong!
Yes, that is deception... of the most cunning sort.. but it is also a powerful weapon available in the arsenal of the paladin. Deception is not lying... it is playing on assumptions and conclusions of others... it can also be simply not revealing all one knows. An equally powerful weapon!
Varrel keeps blaming Ashe for revealing too much... if that were the case we would not have had 5 days to make items unaccosted by the Queen's minions IF she suspected we knew as much as we actually do. Queen Ileosa still believes we are stumbling around unaware of what it really going on grasping at straws.
EVERYTHING that Ashe did tell Queen Ileosa... someone else already knew or had already reported it as such. The coins causing plague someone was bound to figure that out eventually when some one managed to spot an infected silver coin with a detect magic or a detect evil spell running! The sunken plague ship was documented and spotted by the Korvosan Guard. No big reveal there eventually someone would have gone out to investigate it and found the empty plague chests... it doesn't take a genius to put two and two together, there. Especially after a few testimonials from those beach combers who found the coins.. all the coins have the same Ustalavian minting. The cult of Urgathoa was an unexpected discovery ...but eventually someone would have blamed worshipers of the pallid princess of being involved it was a matter of time. But the key evidence..the connection of davaulus and the Red Mantis Ashe left completely out because it was a direct connection to the Queen... she hired Davaulus!
Are we on the Queen's radar? The moment the party stepped into her throne room in the first module we were on her radar. Does she think we're a threat? Not really no. We didn't reveal the key information that might link the Queen to any of this.. she can claim ignorant innocence and escape any reprisals with what unassociated information Ashe revealed to her. Will we be targeted? Red Mantis are involved... no matter WHAT we say eventually if they are involved in this as we know they are... we will be targeted. Guaranteed! The only way to avoid that is to flee the city - not an option.
Ashe explained it was not only what he did NOT say to the Queen but also what he DID say to her and HOW he said it that has served as a protection from her knowing that we know to much! She already knew we were investigating these incidents... the Marshal at the Very least told her until we told the marshal what we suspected of the Queen's connection AFTER Ashe's 'dance of words' with Queen Ileosa. I seriously doubt the Marshal is feeding the Queen anymore information on our activities and discoveries!
Will the Queen consider us a danger that needs to be removed... eventually, but she must act indirectly...some of us are too public to just arrest on trumped up charges. It has to be something that can stick! As we are also protected by the law. Now she can have assasinand other sell swords come after us.. but Dirtect Royal authority...no. she'll need something more solid than.. 'I don't like them' to come after us. This is KORVOSA.. Not Chieliaz! The King or Queen is NOT an absolute ruler here. The Nobles wanted it that way!
What Ashe has said to Queen Ileosa has kept her suspicions at bay.
Ashe is just very good at playing a role as needed to see that ultimately justice is served in the BEST way possible.... preferably with as little bloodshed as possible. Tough time is indeed coming to head when direct action against the queen will be needed.
You are sticking to type masterfully.
So Is Varrel, his char background is a former slave FROM Chelax.
He is used to Female rules eliminating opposition under a farce of Law.
As such he is paranoid about the queen and willing to assume she needs little to fabricate a reason for her to kill us.
Just as she fabricated a reason to make the bard a scapegoat. Her only attempt at evidence was a suspect confession by a guard.
The same tactic would be simple here. A certain blackmailed noble with a testimony that the Varisian woman who married her way into Korvosan society was the owner of the plague ship. Documents are easy to forge, especially from one of great means.
What's more it doesn't take much to justify a powers actions. Most armerican's as I understand it believe the whole WMD case to invade Iraq was BS, but it was enough to stop the people from doing much to stop it.
(Not attacking Americans here, Saddam WAS a tyrant, just an example- hell, my own country did similar when we went into Timor. Made a song and dance about saving the people who WERE being murdered but we also profited by helping them gain independence, we entered into a joint venture for BILLIONS of dollars worth of LNG)
Point is, it's not as hard for a Monarch in a medieval society to brand a group of potentially dangerous people as a threat and off them as Ashe thinks.
On the whole Ashe is being masterfully played to char and Varrel is playing his. Don't forget you pointed out a feat, where a worshipper of Ragathiel HAS to kill a proven evildoer just to get his boon. And Varrel is pretty devout (as people from hard upbringings generally cling to their religion).
OOC I like to kill bad guys and take their stuff but the role play is fun.
I see a tenous union of Una, Varrel and Graxer on one side and the Iomedaen's on the other. Damoc seems caught in the middle. Lol.
Ashe seems to have competing personality traits in action. He doesn't appear to want to harm women, but he doesn't trust the Grey Maiden's either.
As far as tying the above to your point, the Queen could well frame this entire operation as us attacking a hospital and killing noble physicians and lawful guards turning the people of Korvosa against us. That is another reason why not massacring them may be smart. If we kill everyone present, they have the means to extract information from the corpses about who did it. Then they can make up lies and let the people assume the rest.
It is probably best to do this as public as possible, get as much evidence as possible, and reveal it to as many powerful people as possible as we can find. If we publically prove the Urgathoans are the cause of the plague and gain the support of other powerful people, then we don't allow the Queen to control the information. The more secretive we are, the more able the Queen is to brand us as some sort of dangerous criminal group the city should turn against.
Varrel,
Did you see the Magus now benefits from haste when using Spell Combat? New ruling by the design team.
Link?
That's an interesting one.
SKR posted it yesterday in the rules forum. I like the ruling. Makes running the game easier.
Interesting. I wish they had given the advantage to charging also.
Varrel,
I've been reading up on familiars. I think a familiar is a superior option in a 20 point point buy campaign, especially an Improved Familiar. We usually roll stats. I think that is why we didn't use familiars very often. Stats were so high on opponents that a familiar wouldn't have a great chance of survival. In point buy familiars seem like a better option.
I think I'm leaning towards taking a Lyrakie. Her stats are better than most characters. She has a very high charisma. Though I do like Spiritsense on the Nosoi, constant detect magic, freedom of movement and detect evil is very powerful as well. She has Truespeech as well which allows her to communicate with anyone. She looks like Tinkerbell. I would laugh imagining Tinkerbell delivering some deadly spell with a touch attack.
I like that the Azata is a natural humanoid. She'll be able to use items more easily. Use Magic Device will be very easy for her with a 20 Charisma. Pretty nice overall abilities.
Familiars are awesome.
Not just for the extra set of actions but the role play is fun.
I have one that believes he is the hero and the character is his mount.
Still here guys. Just gonna be 'off' camera till you get back.
Congratulations, Megan! I hear the British economy is picking up. Hopefully everyone gets this thing rolling in the right direction. Been a tough half a decade.
Congrats Megan! Best of wishes and all my prayers!
Good news! I'll keep my fingers crossed until it's confirmed though.
Good.
Think I have finally landed a job. Will be out tomorrow, so not sure when/if I'll get on here.
Good luck.
I flew across the country yesterday for a mine site interview today. (11hrs flight)Hopefully I get mine as well. I have been a casual bailiff for 6 months and family savings are gone.
Hopefully this works out as well.
We will have to move states for it but if I get it the pay is worth it.
Good luck to you too, STR Ranger.
Sorry everyone, I have been busy as hell at Work the last week and a half, and when I'm not working, I'm sleeping. Ever worked 2 PM to 6 AM? Threw me out of if completely. (Things seem to be getting back to normal, I slept it off with an 8 to 6 snoozefest. Vacation next week.)
Someone want to catch me up on what's gone on in my absence?
Good luck with the job interview, STR Ranger.
Welcome back, Una. You haven't missed too much. We fought the physicians and guards in lower room. Beat them easily. Interrogated the prisoners. Headed to the second floor. Took out three physicians in immediate area outside Doctor's office. We just entered the office. So far the physicians and grey maiden's are pacified. Now we're trying to find Doctor Davaulus.
2 PM to 6 AM? That's brutal. I used to find swing shift bad enough on its own, let alone with those extra hours tacked on. I hope that's not going to be an ongoing state.
Just once, thank god. But that was bad enough... It may take me a while to get back into a groove of gaming/working/sleeping/living I'm comfortable with.
Yay!
Work is good.
Won't find out about mine till late next week.
BTW: Graxer. Sic im!
Congratulations, Megan. Forgive me but I'm unclear on the term 0.5 contract? Is that half time, 20 hours a week?
Move Action: Retrieve powder bag from belt pouch
* Really need a Handy Haversack...
So fashionable, and useful too. I just love mine.
Congratulations on half-time then. I hope they realize what they've got in you and give you as many more hours as you'd like.
Some good rp going on.
Yeah, I know...wanted Varrel involved! A chance to get to see the vengeance of Ashe unleashed... lol! Ah well there will be other opportunities.
Vengeance? What Vengeance? ;)
You don't know if the prisoner's are still alive. ..
Sigh... Varrel always equates vengeance with killing. Some of the Worse revenge leaves the victim alive... at least briefly, so they can clearly ponder the magnitude of their failure! We are ALL our own worse critics.. and for a evil villain with no mercy or forgiveness in his heart; to know... 'he has failed and will NEVER get a chance at vengeance'... is far worse than instant death, a quick release!
...
... He's a zealous destroyer of evil wielding the power of a goddess as his weapon. ....[/ooc]
I respectfully disagree. He's a weapon wielded by a goddess.
See it as you want.
As I see it he wields the power, she grants the power. His actions are his choice guided by her moral and philosophical teachings. He is not controlled (wielded) by her, he chooses to have faith in her. Through his faith she grants him a portion of her power to use as a weapon. With or without her power or teaching, he would be fighting evil. That is an innate part of his makeup.
Did you bring this up for some reason?
Mostly just teasing.
I do find the relationship between deities and their PC devotees interesting.
I wonder just how deep a game the gods play. Has Iomedae, with the best of intentions of course, set him up? Has she put him in a position where his innate makeup will force certain actions?
I like to think about this as well. I find it interesting. I let people view the relationship as they wish since personal perception would be just as valid a view as any other.
My personal view of D&D polytheism is that it is competitive. It is a very different animal than monotheism with a singular omnipotent, omniscient deity. It is different than hierarchial polytheism with an overgod and a bunch of undergods.
In the Pathfinder/D&D world we have competing gods. None of them are omnipotent or omniscient,though they are quite powerful. They have to compete for followers amongst the existing group of beings to see their will done on Golarion and beyond. This competition tends to involve alot of warfare both on and off the field of battle which is why you see deities with more and less power depending on the region you are in.
This lack of omnipotence and omniscience leads to a codependent relationship between the deity and the follower. The deity needs the follower to see her will on Golarion done, to be her eyes, ears, and voice, and use her powerful gifts in her name to forward her religion. The follower needs the goddess to make the world into what he believes it should be whether that is a good, just place like Deriven or Ashe or a place where he might fulfill his selfish desires and gain power like an Urgathoan priest.
The innate character of the individual is as important as the character of the god or goddess. This is competitive polytheism where worshippers are power to the god or goddess and vice versa. There is no singular powerful overgod. There is no singular heaven and hell providing the carrot and the stick for good and bad. You get to choose which hereafter you want to pursue whether that is a peaceful, orderly realm like Iomedae provides or an orderly, power hungry Hell like Asmoedeus provides or a nature realm like Ketephys.
Competitive polytheism creates a different relationship between deity and follower. For example, Iomedae might know nothing of the Urgathoan plot we are following up on. Her first hint of awareness of the plot might be Ashe praying to her for help defeating it. The power she provides both Ashe and Deriven will be used to compete against the power Urgathoa provides her servants. May the better followers win because the power will depend on the strength of the competing followers, not on the strength of the goddesses who are relatively equal.
Deriven is well aware that Iomedae did not create the world. He is aware she is not able to destroy or overpower the other gods and goddesses. He is well aware that he will be called upon even in death to stand and fight for Iomedae. There will be no peaceful, relaxing afterlife free from conflict. The war against evil goes on after death. He has aligned his life and soul with Iomedae, even though she created neither.
That's how I tend to view Pathfinder/D&D religion. Iomedae provides the sword, Deriven wields it as a soldier in her army. She called him, he answered and swore his faith to her. Now he acts to further her cause on Golarion and wills stand with her in the hereafter.
I follow Derivens view on the polytheism point... though to me... clerics are something different from paladins.
Yes, Deriven is a direct-mouth piece for his goddess Iomedae... but paladins specifically are more like a weapon, but not necessarily of a specific god though most paladins do dedicate themselves to one in particular... like Ashe.
I view Paladins as a very special weapon of the powers of light because only those warriors who dedicate themselves to specifically law and Good can become paladins, unlike clerics. It seems to me paladins are a very special pact the powers of light have agreed upon to empower a champion to combat the forces of darkness - even morso than a cleric...who {again in my opinion} is more a divine mediator of their god between the deity and his faithful mortal worshipers. Any cleric of any good alignment that holds to a faith can be in good standing... with their specific deity {neutral good, Chaotic good...} but ONLY a Lawful and Good Warrior can be a paladin! It is a higher standard to which paladins are held... and for that higher standard they are directly empowered with truly powerful weapon-like powers and abilities to help them not only defeat evil but hunt it down. They are even enabled to read into the hearts of others and seek evil wherever it hides.
To note paladins are not expressly required to devote themselves to the service of a specific deity, but can be simply devoted to the cause of law and goodness upholding justice and protecting the innocent from harm.
Clerics may do the same... though it is MUCH rarer. Indeed the cleric can duplicate the abilities of a paladin to a lesser degree with certain divine magics at their disposal, but a paladin 'hands down' is almost always better at their specific 'gifts' than a cleric.
I think it is a very special 'pact' the powers of light have agreed to that all good deities devote some modicum of power to empowering paladins as weapons of goodness. Hence WHY a paladin must be of the highest moral caliber.
A paladin is a weapon of light.
In my opinion the paladin is the most powerful fighter type in the game. Yes, their abilities are more focused upon defeating evil... but their save bonuses make it hard to influence them and allow them to survive attacks both magical and martial that would destroy mere fighters... and they can heal themselves and remove afflictions with but a touch of their hands.
I'd bet on a paladin wining any conflict against any equivalent level and geared fighter type... Magus included! But that is just my opinion. :)
Challenge accepted!
Sorry, I tend to agree in general that Pally's in pathfinder with so many evil targets bring more to the table than a fighter.
HOWEVER Pally's are best at hp damage and taking it to the face.
In fact it is most often the HP of the party that slows you down.
I am playing a 10th level Sacred Servent pally of vengeance in a council of thieves game and he took on
We also just fought a 12th level fully prepared and buffed wizard who was pwn'ing the party amd only fled cause my overcoming his DR. (Thanks bow)
All good. But in a one on one fight past level 12 they are gonna really struggle vs non evil casters.
Even at this level with flight, Invisibility, my Rime Frostbite (I know ENFORCER doesn't work on Ashe) and a slew of other options that DON'T involve having to go toe to toe Ashe would struggle against a non evil magus,
inquisitor,
summoner,
Or even a trip monkey fighter (check out Gtr trip, combat Reflexes and FELLING SMASH. 2 attacks plus a trip is awesome)
But this game is not pvp
I like paladins a great deal as well. They are the epitome of law and goodness based on the classic knights of Arthurian legend as well as the myths surrounding Charlemagne. Personally, I don't allow any divine characters except for druids and maybe rangers to not choose a deity. I know what the paladin is based on and they were sworn to a god. I prefer they be sworn to a god in Pathfinder/D&D as well. I view them as holy knights in service to a particular good deity. They are the military arm that devotes their life to questing against evil. Whereas a priest can get away with living a peaceful life devoted to a church, a paladin (and inquisitor) must set forth and actively oppose evil and the enemies of the church (good, neutral, or evil). They are held to the highest standards and symbols of virtuous and noble good for the other faithful to look to for guidance and hope when times are dark.
I would rate paladin highly in player versus environment. I don't know that I would put it above the magus, inquisitor, or ranger given all those classes have more versatility than the paladin for problem solving. The paladin is supreme at resisting saving throw based attacks. Followed by the monk, superstition barbarian, and inquisitor.
A lot of classes can compete versus the paladin in conflicts. An Inquisitor has more and better spell and ability options with more skills and even better alignment detection ability. A ranger has more skills, a pet for additional melee help, and favored enemy can be more versatile than Smite Evil. A Magus has a great spell selection and can dish serious damage.
I'm actually running a paladin and magus side by side right now. Both are 11th level. The Magus does way more damage than the paladin and has more versatility in going after enemies with spells. He has more skills with intelligence as his one of his primary stats. The paladin's saves are better. His AC is better since he uses a shield (doesn't help as much with touch AC), and he has more hit points. He can stay up a whole lot longer with LoH.
As far as PvP goes the barbarian is king. The barbarian is a raging machine of destruction that few can withstand. It is the current king of the martials and virtually unmatched by any other martial type when it comes to crushing enemies. Raging Brutality even gives them the equivalent of a round of Smite Damage useable against any target regardless of alignment. There isn't much that can go toe to toe with a barbarian.
lols. Yeah I can see both your points! :)
But a Paladin seeking battle with a non-evil is wasting the powers of light's invested purpose for the paladin, in my opinion. He should get back to hunting evil.. lol! That's what he's empowered to do. Leave the grey area foes to the inquisitor... thats what they are for!
I think if you want evil problem hunted down.. you send a Paladin.. you want a non-evil problem hunted down.. send an Inquisitor! :)
That might make a cool team actually a brother and sister Paladin Inquisitor duo.. lol!
I think for the 'Wrath of the Righteous' campaign we will be spinning up as a sitdown game here in Indianapolis.. I'll play a Inquisitor of IOMEDAE. Never played one before... be a nice change and a chance to get a feel for their abilities. I KNOW paladins... :)
I was hoping to get a seat in the 'Reign of Winter' Game going on here as well.. wanted to play a Barbarian "Titan Mauler"... but I think that game is full.