Phew lots of posts! I am going to try to get something up later, but have lots of plans today/tonight after getting home from work.
So all we need now is Lex to be notified by Argos and take his leave of Nev, and we will be all caught up.
Ah, I thought that already happened without me needed to post?
I'm not a fan of "future" posts.
Aaand Constantine's cohort is finished.
Nice! Here's Valignatirs'. If y'all wanna see him.
@Anka: You forgot to max your HD.
@: I’d recommend some social skills as you spend what appear to be your missing skill points; summoners are great at them. Also, if you’re going Conjuration specialist, I’d recommend Glitterdust and/or Grease; and Summon Eidolon lets you temporarily grant your Eidolon Augment Summon bonuses (it’s Bull’s Strength and Bear’s Endurance in a single spell, and can be used to summon your eidolon even with summoned monsters on the field).
So all we need now is Lex to be notified by Argos and take his leave of Nev, and we will be all caught up.Ah, I thought that already happened without me needed to post?
I'm not a fan of "future" posts.
You more or less could see it that way. The last thing Lex said was:
Lex scowled at the lord and made a shooing motion as he walked away, turning towards Lady Nev as he finally left. "I apologize for his misconduct. That was quite unbecoming of him." Lex huffed, opening his mouth as if to say something else before pausing as he couldn't quite find the words and sighed awkwardly for a moment before finally getting his thoughts together.
"Try not to let what those peacocks inside say get to you too much, I suppose they're just not used to seeing a woman as...brave and strong as you are. Perhaps imagine that they're hellspawn instead? I doubt you've ever had trouble facing down fiends before." Lex chuckled somewhat at his own joke.
Nev followed up with a simple thank you and saying that she did not want to keep him from his duties. That could be the end of it, but I didn't know if you had any more to say.
Was that comment towards me, Inkwell?
Because I did forget to spend the extra skill point per level.
The only social skill that is a class skill for summoners is...none.
And that spell recommendation is awesome.
Must have missed it.
Okay, revising a few things!
Also, I see Tiberion as more of a scholar type, with his eidolon (posting with her alias) being his main social skill monster. Got her a hat of disguise, even.
Don't want to freak anyone out!
What with her skilled (bluff, diplomacy, intimidate) evolutions, her skills are pretty good.
Tiberion may be scholarly... but he's also not very intelligent, hmm. With that monster charisma though, he could be an excellent bluff/diploer even without class skills (and there are traits that get you social skills; I've usually found summoners to be better party faces than bards, but maybe that's just how I see the class).
Your Eidolon will still have a very strong Evil aura; Misdirection (with a super-high DC because of your summoner's charisma) could be useful if you're disguising it. A Hat of Disguise only lets you disguise as your own type (i.e. outsiders); you'd need an Improved Hat of Disguise (12k gp, but physically alters you so that the change is undetectable with anything less than True Seeing) to emulate anything other than an Imp/Agathion/etc.
Of course, any kind of Hat of Disguise shows up pretty easily to anyone paranoid to cast Detect Magic; that's why you get one of your followers to cast Magic Aura on you daily.
Hmm, you have a point.
I'll probably take two traits for Diplo/Bluff, and will probably dump the extra 12 skill points split into both. I do see the need for the social skills, now that I realize how much difficulty I'll have disguising Samandrea.
Is keeping the Hat of Disguise even worth it?
I don't see the need for it if she can't even disguise herself as anything but an outsider?
As for spells, I'll have to take Summon Eidolon and Misdirection.
They're too good not to.
If she's a small eidolon, she can use Hat of Disguise to go one size smaller and pretend to be an imp/any other common familiar (many of which are good or neutral-aligned); my party face summoner generally keeps his familiar disguised as an Arbiter Inevitable.
For quick translations of the couple of words Opilio has used... If you know Osirioni.
Daf'ero = Most exquisite
Jamael = Beautiful
Using Anka's craft wondrous to change some item costs and add a few items to boost Constantine's saves by a little. Also finished his estate up with 5 watchtowers set on Garrowglade's borders each staffed with a group of elite guards.
Watched Dinosaurs last night
I so want my next character to be an awakened Velociraptor cavalier with a T-Rex mount!
Going to the Renfest today!
It's been an exciting start to my Son's vacation with me. Unfortunately for you guys, that means I won't be posting anything until tonight.
I also believe it's safe to tell you guys, I've really got no more "important" bits left at this party, and if you wish to continue till it's actual end (about 2 hours in game time) you guys will be the ones to carry the story to that point, and I'll only be able to fill in the NPC details if you give the push with which NPCs you'll be interacting with.
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Lady Gabrielle is looking to accomplish:
-Introduce Nev to her cousin, the young Lord Marshall Eiredor. In that bit, I'd like to bring up Lady Gabrielle's older brother Gerard. He and his men are a part of the Taldan presence in Mendev, and I imagine he was there when the Princess visited and was attacked and saved by Nev. The more of House Eiredor that perceives Gerard and Gabrielle as a worthy part of the extended family, the better things will be for the small House Apcher.
-Run into Constantine and share a dance and perhaps a drink with him. He's got some serious favor upon him, so Lady Gabrielle would do well to meet him.
-If she meets the Invincible Lord Rook as a result, that would be even better. Any powerful friend she can make who has an interest in the well-being of the northern region near Cassomir, the Seller River, and Andoran is a good thing for her.
-Check in with Kyra about their impromptu investigation into those whispers they heard earlier.
-Have a small mother-daughter chat with Lady Florianne. If her mother is pleased with the people she is being introduced to this evening, it would be a relief. It means she's bought herself at least a couple more weeks of autonomy. Insight into her current expectations would also be nice. She's going to hold her expectations over Lady Gabrielle whether she knows them or not. Avoiding her mother just means she won't see them coming.
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Eh, Lord Rook is just messing with people of weaker will to pass the time.
@Constantine: Maybe you know of Nev, but only by her proper knightly name, and have never heard the nickname?
Off to work till midnight now!
I want to clarify: you guys keep calling the Lord Commander Eiredor (who is Lady Gabrielle's cousin through her mother, btw) The Lord Marshall is Gabrielle's grandfather, and is still alive (though was likely, still only a boy when Lord Rook was in his thirties).
The difference between the two is that Lord Marshall Eiredor (Gabby's granddad) is the head of house Eiredor, and the retired leader of the ENTIRE taldan Phalanx (foot soldiers)
The Lord Commander Eiredor (Gabby's cousin) is the current leader of the Taldan Cavalry... He's also in his mid/late twenties.
Err... Maybe the mistake is just in how I'm reading it. I dunno, I just want to keep clarity.
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Thanks for the clarification!
The Lord Commander is Lady Gabrielle's grandfather? Whoa, snap! Thanks for the close family connection there! No wonder her mother has super-high aspirations for Gabrielle!
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Inverse those.
Also, Gabrielle, tab over to the info pane and read up on Eiredor, they are your family after all.
It wouldn't hurt you all to be up to date on them, as every one of you (Val excluded) has some reason to be involved with that family.
Hey! You already had that connection, it was just elaborated on by one of the unfortunate souls who didn't get selected to join, who let me use the info.
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OK, I must've gotten the two of them mixed up early in the week, and it carried over. I've got it now.
Marshal : grandfather
Commander : cousin
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Matt, did we ever decide if Gerard and Nev had spent time together while in Mendev? If nothing else, she can at least say that she did see this exploit or that, and she would speak highly of him, if only because he is your brother.
You could always go over to see Thorn and bug Constantine and Lord Rook while you're there.
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Yeah, now that I am thinking about the close relation to House Eiredor and the fact that the Princess visited and the timeline of Nev and Gabrielle's friendship, I would totally expect that they would have spent some time together.
Gerard is a generally good and noble individual, dedicated to bringing the light of the Empire to the far places of the world. He is a very strong and charismatic leader, making him effective at directing the forces under him in the battle against the demons of the Worldwound. He's a bit stoic, though, which can make him seem a rather dull individual.
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Hey guys, I've got a pretty sweet idea involving the timeline with Constantine, Nev, and Gabrielle. I'll post it up once I'm home!
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Kk!
Oh dear, so many people for Nev to talk to!
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OK, I've got Nev introduced! Constantine, do you still want to approach us? I would like to have Lady Gabrielle meet you, so we can make that happen based on what Constantine does.
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Response posted.
sorry for the late post. Got home and passed out.
I figure he could meet both simultaneously.
I went with Baron rather than Duke, because a Duke usually holds a major swath of land, there's usually only a few in a country, and they're generally (in most Earth cultures with Dukes) tied to the royal bloodline or very, very involved in politics. "Baron" is still a nice, noble title (above Senator, at least), but I chose it to represent that the Rook family isn't (historically, at least), important or wealthy enough to own a full-sized private army or more than a hundred square miles or so of land.
I'll have to think of a retort later, I'm tired.
Argh! I haven't gotten around to title hand outs just yet, but it's based on the amount of land and your role in the empire.
While Dukes where given larger lands, that's because they were military leaders. Who else would a king entrust such power to then his own blood? The empire here might function slightly different though.
While having land doesn't always gift you with a title, you can still be titles by being a knight. I estimate that Ser Constantine is a "landed knight" or a Count/Comte equivalent.
At present, within the Empire, the only title a woman may legally possess without a husband is "Dame", because technically women aren't allowed to own land. Informally, most ladies derive their titles from their fathers until they are married, at which point, they derive from their husband.
So, the titles as I see them right now:
Dame Atropa
Ser Constantine
Regentesse Rubicon
Earlesse D'Apcher
Baron Rook
And, of course Ambassador or Count Valignatir
Oooh, Count Jeggare.
I like the sound of that!
Also, cool connection, Leviathan!
I'd forgotten about the Venture Captain.
I'll have to come up with some stories or something there.
Hopefully should be off of work soon, then I can catch up on all the posts.
Okay, so… a landed knight would be nowhere near a Count in any traditional European system or nobility. Let’s see if I can break this down into assumed ranks, based on my knowledge of European nobility. Taldor’s nobility is complicated by a combination of British, Continental, and Roman/Byzantine lordship styles, complicated because Roman titles were never hereditary (though in the Byzantine days were frequently granted to the same family for several generations). In most European systems, noblemen held titles less noble than their own, which were generally granted to their sons until the real inheritance came in (though since Taldor requires recognition of a royal family, heirs are probably just referred to as “Sir,” which is why I’ve granted my heir the style “Baronet”). I’m also not sure to what extent the Taldan system allows lordly vassalage, since the Roman/Senatorial system would not have this.
But the ranks should probably look something like:
High Lordships—Generally given to those with royal blood (or the second/third most powerful families), or those with the highest accomplishments and favor possible. Depending on the Kingdom/Empire, might not be hereditary, with children instead gaining a lower title of nobility. Usually nearly autonomous from the crown above them, with standing armies and large or multiple swaths of land; may have a number of lesser lords as their vassals. Most kingdoms would never have more than two or three such lords, though large Empires might have over a dozen. Might be incensed by being referred to as “Lord."
[u]Examples of high titles[/u]
Western: Duke, Infante
Continental: Prince, Duke*, Doge
Roman: Viceroy, Proconsul, Dux, Despot
Arabic: Emir, Beylerbey
Female: Duchess, Princess
Lands: Duchy, Viceroyalty, Province, Principality
Counts—Lords who control a county or province of some size, which may be large enough to include a town or city. May or may not have armies, depending on land size and location, but likely to have sworn knights and possibly lesser lords as vassals. Generally promoted from lesser lords, though in Taldor they may be appointed directly for great acts (such as deposing a “renegade” lord of means and power). Can be further split (historically) into “Border Lords” and regular ones; Border Counts would have dangerous or frontier provinces, often larger and with a mandate of defending these regions—as such, they would generally control multiple fortifications and be considered a step above ordinary Counts in the rankings of nobility. Under the German system, only lords of rank Margrave or above were allowed to vote for an Emperor, though in the German and Scandinavian systems, all Counts and above could vote on laws.
[u]Examples of border titles[/u]
Western: Marquis, Marquess, Marcher
Continental: Margrave, Landgrave, Lansgraf, Palatine Count
Roman: Exarch
Arabic: Bey
Female: Marchioness, Margravine, Landgravine
Lands: March, Margraviate, Landgraviate, Palatinate, Lans
[u]Examples of county titles[/u]
Western: Earl, Comte
Continental: Jarl, Graf, Count, Archbishop
Roman: Magister
Arabic: Shiekh
Female: Countess, Gravine
Lands: County, Magistrate, Graviate
Lesser Lordships—Lords who control a smaller region—usually countryside, with nothing more than small towns or villages, or a single city with none of its surrounding lands. Unlikely to have their own armies unless especially ambitious, and would never have other nobility as sworn vassals; also comes with much less responsibility than higher lords. May be substantially wealthy or famous, but a family whose holdings or honor grows large enough is likely to see their title promoted. May be further divided into ranks (the British system, for instance, placed Viscounts above Barons). Under the British system, only lords of rank Baron or above were allowed to vote on laws. Under the Taldan system, this would be the lowest-rank titles still considered “Royal Houses” requiring royal assent to inherit.
[u]Examples of lesser titles[/u]
Western: Viscount, Baron, Viscomte
Continental: Baron, Thane, Grand Mayor, Burgrave, Bishop
Roman: Mandator
Arabic: Wali
Female: Viscountess, Baroness
Lands: Vice-County, Barony
Non-lordship titles—Sometimes still referred to as lords, but not as Lords, these are hereditary titles that may have been granted to hereditary knights, wealthy landowners with no noble blood, or the firstborn sons of still-living higher lords. May have ownership of a small town or village, as well as associated taxation or leasing rights. Depending on the country/culture, such a title may be owned and inherited by some wealthy merchant families with little to no actual land (or nothing more than a city villa and some royal influence). Under the Roman and Polish-Lithuanian systems, all such hereditary land-owners and above could vote for an Emperor and on laws. Under the Roman and Russian systems, this is the lowest title allowed to legally grow beards. Similarly, this would be the Taldan “Bearded” class, allowed to vote on laws and grow beards.
[u]Examples of hereditary titles[/u]
Western: Baronet, Sir, Laird
Continental: Seignior, Hidalgo, Junker
Roman: Senator, Patrician, Dominus
Arabic: Sharif
Female: Lady, Baronetess
Lands: Referred to by name, with no special title
Order knights—Any honor that can be bestowed without associated lands, Order Knights are generally appointed by rules for specific deeds in or out of battle. Some honors may be bestowed by certain high-ranking lords, and some knight orders may self-appoint new members, though usually only the most selective orders would be considered sufficiently notable—most European kingdoms would typically only have a few hundred such knights. As cavaliers and crusaders were historically more liberal with their titles and appointments, a royally-bestowed knighthood would probably be similar in rank to holding a leadership position in a Paladin or Cavalier Order. Among military circles, generally considered more honorable/noble than an actual lordship, though the more militaristic lords may have Order decorations as well.
[u]Examples of order titles[/u]
Western: Knight of the Garter, Knight of the Cross, Master of Hounds, Chevalier, etc.
Continental: Huscarl, Order of Merit, Cupbearer, Reichsritter, etc.
Female: Dame, Lady
Ordinary knights—The definition of this varies wildly between cultures. In some countries, all knights were traditionally appointed by a king; in Rome, it simply meant anyone rich enough to own a horse which they could ride into battle. Mostly rich enough to own decently-sized farms, houses, or businesses, even if not proper “landholders” with tenants, knights would generally represent the more militaristic side of the middle class.
[u]Examples of knightly titles[/u]
Western: Knight, Cavalier, Esquire
Continental: Don, Ritter
Roman: Equitis
Female: Lady, Madam
Oh, P.S. In European traditions, the female equivalent of Earl is Countess, since "Earl" is from the Scandinavian "Jarl", a culture with no female titles. (Popular lore says that England used to have Counts and Countesses, but replaced the French-derived world "Count" with the Norse-derived "Earl" because the commoners thought the former sounded too much like a dirty word).
You know quite a bit more about noble titles than me....
However, Archbishop Valignatir sounds mighty fine to me.
I guess I would know the second most about noble titles. There were a couple inaccuracies - the Germans called Counts 'Graf' not princes. Princes had such titles because they usually held the territory of a count but were sovereign nations, while counts were always in the service of a higher lord. Also, there were no Archduchies, the title was invented by the Hapsburgs (purely for their use) to distinguish themselves among the many German states, as they were de facto the family of the Imperial Throne. Additionally, a lot of German's also held a separate title called Prince-Elector for voting on the next Emperor.
There's also the fact that sometimes titles passed out of their respective land's De Facto control. The Rubicons for instance are inheritors of the Ducal title of Galt, but only De Jure - this is stated to be very common in Taldor where lots of nobles claim land outside of the Empire and thus have meaningless titles which only serve to establish social hierarchy. It wouldn't be uncommon for some of them (also like the Rubicons) to have lesser titles in addition to their regular ones though.
Ah, didn't know that's what "Prince" referred to in the HRE specifically. But most of the free Princes in the Imperial Diet had county-sized domains. Prince-Elector wasn't a landed title, just an indication that someone could vote as an elector; there were a small number of Electors, and they were all also either Margraves, Dukes, Archbishops or Counts Palatine. The early HRE had a number of other Archduchies, but these were mostly gone by the end of the middle ages.
Also, Valignatir, you can't be an Archbishop in Taldor—an Archbishopric is duchy-sized patch of land held by a church, and the Archbishop is the priest in charge of that church. The thing about "de facto Dukes in exile" is fun, though.
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I have the Apcher family's province, Margeride, on the border with Andoran. However, I did not assume Margeride as being particularly large. Would it be preferred if we made Lady Gabrielle's father a Marquis, or should we go with a lesser title, like Vicomte? What would best suit the campaign?
Also... What would it take, in modern Taldor, for an unmarried woman to inherit her family's title?
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He would be a Marquis/Margrave, having a lesser title would basically be an insult.
As for female inheritance? Would not happen. Gabrielle would have cousins, and if the male-line in her family were extinguished the title would simply pass over to the next closesy male relative. (Although, if Gabrielle had a son, he would have a very strong claim to your family's title - though it gets complicated if you married into another family, such was the cause of the Hundred Years war). Simply put, Taldor runs on Agnatic succession so women are not considered for inheritence directly - which is why Eutropia discussing getting an emergency provision passed that would basically alter succession laws into Agnatic-Cognatic is a big deal, since it means while men would likely be favored for inheritance, women could inherit if their immediate family had no male heirs.
The "Mar" in Margrave means "border"—such provinces, being the most dangerous, were considered high-ranking/noble regardless of their size. Margrave is a German word; depending on what sort of styles you'd like to use, other titles specifically meaning "border lord" are Marquis (French), Marquess (British), Marcher (Welsh), or Exarch (Roman).
The easiest way to inherit your family land in a pure Agnatic (boys only) succession is to marry a lesser son from another house, who stands to inherit nothing on his own and can then be free to adopt your family's arms and name (happened more than you'd expect in medieval Europe). But then he's the family heir, not you, although in the event of a divorce he may have to forfeit it, etc.
If you want to do things without marriage, having a son outside of wedlock and having him legitimized, or "conveniently" being widowed, or adopting a son (either an actual adoption, or "adopting" a distant relative who's got ties to your family) would make him the heir, while allowing you to act as regent until he's an adult.
So, the primary theme of this first part of the story is getting women legitimized to be heir/heads of houses in "emergency" situations... Similar to what happened with Queen Elizabeth I of the Tudor Dynasty. Currently the only ways to inherit your family holdings is as T-beard said, Marry a Lord who won't merge the houses into his own holdings, or bear a male bastard who you will legitimize (with much embarrassment on the house), or become "unfortunately widowed" after having a male child who is too young to manage his own estates.
The thought Was that all titles from northern, western, eastern Europe, as well as Russian, Indian and Arabic titles would be used. That includes French and Italian as well.
Bishop might not be a bad title for Val, but as he is landed, count is more appropriate. Archbishop is meant for those near the top of the church, second to Cardinals, and then the head of the church (in this case I'm not sure what that title would be, but essentially "evil-pope"
Interesting theme.
Did you have this in mind before hand, or did we inspire you?
Just curious.
As to the whole land/title-inheriting thing, that's specifically why I made Val male. I knew that, for his story to work, he had to not have problems having his position and land.
I think members of Asmodeus' church would call him Bishop, as he is a level 11th cleric. Supposedly, 5th level PC classes are rare. Not sure if that's true, but whatever.
Pretty much everyone else would call him Count.
If that's okay.
Also, "evil-pope" is my new goal for Val. Just saying.
Yes, ladies Rubicon and D'Apcher... Ser Constantine is exactly the kind of man you'd want to marry to remain in charge of your own estates. He wouldn't be terribly interested in anything more than his troops and land for his troops to train on! The indiscretions of his paramour might be a bit taboo though.
Per Cheliax... Women can inherit. That's mostly a taldan thing.
Well, as our current ruler is a Queen, we are obviously not sexist.
Taldor: a lot.
Cheliax: 1.
I'm guessing there aren't many Arabic titles left in Taldor—after the whole Qadira thing, they might have changed all the Emirates and Waliyahs to less Kelish-sounding names.
Also, a Bishop (or Archbishop) is a title innately tied to a region of land (and also not a title inherited by your children)—if you leave the Bishopric, you're no longer a Bishop. Cardinal, High Priest, and a few other titles are more appropriate for high church office not tied to a physical church, and could more easily go hand in hand with a title of nobility.
I feel like the titles given to you guys above still stand, though.
"Regentesse" is the only one not discussed here.
In this setting, "Regent" or "Regentesse" has slightly less land than an "Earl" or "Earlesse", but has more military authority.
The same situation for "Duke" v. "Baron".
"Archduke" or "Prince" implies connection to the royal bloodline, but Stavian II doesn't have close-blooded relatives, so the only person known as "Prince" or "Archduke" or the female derivatives thereof is Eutropia.
I need to do a write up for clarification, because there are also titles like Commander, Marshall, Inspector, Proctor, etc. Needless to say, Taldan aristocracy is a mess of titles that all intermix, and confusingly over-ride, authority in certain situations, but not others... its really a mess, and the standing European standards don't always apply.