Just wanted to check in, and let you all know that I'm reading the "Ultimate Campaign" book currently to better understand these rules. At the same time, I'm writing up a spread sheet to better understand the purchases provided in those rules.
I'll be sharing it on a google doc once its finished.
Poking my head in to let everyone know, I've read the room-by-room purchase rules, and If anyone needs help understanding them, I'm sure I could give my interpretation of them.
The first thing I noticed is that some rooms have prerequisites to purchase (or rather this is my interpretation of the "Upgraded from: X" parts in some of the room descriptions)
For example: A Throne room requires you first have both a Common room, and a Ceremonial room to upgrade them into a Throne Room. a Ceremonial room requires you have a common room as well. Ultimately this means that you will need 2 common rooms to convert into a throne room.
I believe this handles the issue that Lord rook and I were discussing a few weeks ago, in that over 40k GP could buy you quite a lot.
It's about 5am where I'm at and I've been reading and cataloging all night, so before I get to the Teams and other bits, I'm going to get some sleep. I'll be going over the rest after I get some sleep.
Err... I thought those rules were specifically for upgrading one building to another and subtracting the difference? I thought I saw that somewhere.
The upgrading is for if, say, you have a common room already and want to improve it. They aren't required and I think you subtract the cost of the original from the upgraded room to find the final price when doing that.
A note: the PRD has a much better downtime section than d20are. I find it is better organized with multiple daily chcanged from pages.
Also, I'd love for Constantineto be tasked with manning several watchtower along the edge of Gallowglade.
I'll look at it closer tonight. I'm working now though.
Sounds good—we're the region's first line of defense against river pirates and mountain bandits (by which I mean mostly just ringing alarm bells and letting the peasants hide inside our castles and fortifications until they go back to their rivers or mountains), so I figure we might as well handle the watchtowers. I picture a toll road that goes through the family property, veering away from the river to take a slower, safer route through the countryside to Oppara, with occasional watchtowers/guarded gates along the way maintained well enough to bring in just a bit of traffic.
He's trying to build a mercenary army, so they'd likely rush to the fights as "training." Watchtowers are cheap..so maybe five as well as elite soldiers to guard it.
Aside from the Rubicon's Oppara holdings, which are their villa, factory, and waterfront - along with the recently built guildhouse/theater for Kyra's Orchestra, they own a border fort at the base of the World's Edge Mountains along the North Fork. Nothing big, and much less important for national security since Stavian's Hold went up, but Kyra could develop it into something more. And of course you'd pass by the Rook's estate on the way there.
By the way, for Teams - do they have to be purchased or can Followers be substituted for them?
Not quite done with the gp numbers, but as for his actual holdings, I believe that he has "land" in three different locations.
His holdings back in Egorian (the capital of Cheliax) is mostly empty of people, save for when he visits home. Which isn't a difficult feat with Word of Recall.
The place he hosts visitors in Taldor is his villa in Oppara. It is furnished with the finest Taldan and Chelaxian goods, aiming to please both his allies from Taldor, and his friends from back home.
And then there's the "super-bunker". Castilla Jeggare.
It's a fortress with walls and outer structures made of the natural stone in the style of the older Cheliax, but with the inner castle composed of the iconic Arcadian red-veined black marble.
This is where his followers live, and is his main "headquarters" in Taldor.
Oh, and he has scrolls of Word of Recall to all three locations.
In case we need to escape quickly.
According to what I read, Kyra, followers can be used as teams. But if you use a follower as a manager you still need to pay them. I think you still need to pay wages to followers as well if they are doing a specific team function, but you don't need to pay the up front cost.
Considering having Constantine's cohort be a former pirate captain he defeated in combat and took her ship. After he sold it, she figured the best way to get back at him was to join up with the Summer Crows and caue mild trouble. They have a playful relationship, with her having worked her way to be his right hand with the new Blackspear company.
Debating between a privateer warlord and a gunsmoke mystic. She'll carry a pistol or rifle and have a mechanical arm from a time she wrestled a reefclaw and lost.
I assumed my followers act like teams, but without wages or income—they just sort of sit around making horseshoes and gathering dust.
We don't currently have anyone who owns a ship, so that's not a terrible idea, and Lord Rook owns docks that you could use. There's a Inner Sea Pirate PrC class, though it's not especially good; Freebooter Ranger and Corsair Fighter are old standards that work pretty well. Siege Wizards can also be quite fun, though not especially useful outside of their dedicated role. Also, Swashbuckler.
Nobody's asked yet about what extent guns will be showing up here (they might be rarer outside of the dedicated in-the-field adventurer crowd).
I assume followers are mostly unpaid teams too. If you make one a manager, obviously. You'd have to pay them the wages, but outside of that, I think not.
Pirate turned merc/privateer = cool. Though, you can get all the pirate-y stuff from standard class archetypes instead of that PrC.
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Wait, do they not provide income then? I mean, I assumed they did. If they don't, they could still generate income via the Perform, Profession, or Craft skills though right?
Followers are such a huge grey area...
As for ships...well some of us do happen to know a guy who knows a guy with a Lyre of Building...
Err... followers aren't full-time slaves, in the same way that a cohort is (from how I've seen it in PF; I think 3.5 was different). The Pathfinder version of Leadership has them as people who are generally helpful, will do things for you free of charge, but when you're not around have their own goals and lives to perform, and who generally don't follow you into battle. In the whole scheme of "my followers are family servants" I'm just assuming they don't require upkeep or produce wealth, but might be able to craft items at-cost or fight to defend things, etc.
From how I understand followers in relation to downtime rules is they don't default to forming teams or anything. They are around, will be helpful. If you want them to work as a team, you don't need to pay to put them together but do need to pay actual wages if they are working for you in some capacity.
I find most of the pirate-y archetypes (outside of swashbuckler, which I adore) a bit boring. Warlords have great "lead the troops" type abilities while mystics can make more thematic spell slingers than the wizard archetype..although they don't have any actual spells.
Well... but swashbucklers buckle swashes...
Alternately, for maximum humor, there's always the "warpriest/inquisitor of Besmara" option, which could add yet another conflicting religious dimension to the group.
Also, a Freebooter who worships Besmara can trade their animal companion in for a wand-slinging monkey familiar (or something truly awesome like a Tidepool Dragon), and you wind up with an incredibly effective ranged support character at sea.
Besmara is even less of a good choice of deity than Asmodeus. At least you can play up the Lawful "civilized" order of his faith. I doubt "dedicated to deity of plunder and banditry" is going to roll over well with this party...or most anyone in Oppara outside of the Vagabond camp or the Narrows.
Well, what do ya know.
A deity worse than Asmodeus, and she's not even evil!
On a more serious note, I don't see Besmara fitting here.
Well, I said "hilarious." Probably not practical. You'd basically have a cohort who's not welcome in the city, but spends their time in the back country and on the waterways. Yeah, maybe untenable.
Could be a fall guy for Valignatir?
-Matt
I have no idea what justification Besmara has for not being CE. Like, HOW do you even have a CG Cleric of Besmara?
Also, confusion on teams. You hire them and they don't have pay? How does that work? I don't see a "pay" under their stats like Managers.
I have no idea, either. Maybe the stereotypical slave-freer pirate?
As for teams, you effectively "buy" them.
Not realistic, I know, but that's how it works.
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A CG Cleric of Besmara is basically a nautical Cleric of Cayden. You constantly get your party drunk, sing sea shanties in battle, and sink every Chelaxian slaver ship you can find.
Really, bandits don't need to be evil; law/chaos is more of a crime/not crime thing, while good/evil is more about cruelty and killing. Besmara's all about pillaging, finding treasure, winning battles, escaping from the authorities, etc—CN means she doesn't really care whether people get killed and ships get sunk in the process, but she's not going to glorify killing the same way she glorifies theft. I've got a CG character in the second book of Skull & Shackles, on a ship that prays to Callistria, Besmara, and Shimye-Magalla, and we've never had alignment issues so far. (Though my code of morality has mostly been "don't ask me to set anybody on fire except monsters and slavers")
That..does sound entertaining. I did envisage her as a money-hungry mercenary. Constantine used to be more chaotic over good, but his brother's death makes him want to do more good in Theodoro's memory. She would act, in a way, as the devil on the shoulder. "Build the mercenary company, manipulate the situation to make tons of money as long as no one gets super hurt, its all okay, right?" Where as Constantine would prefer to build the army up first and his mercenary company second--in order to support the nation in case of war with Qadira.
However, I'd rather not add more religious conflict.
That..does sound entertaining. I did envisage her as a money-hungry mercenary. Constantine used to be more chaotic over good, but his brother's death makes him want to do more good in Theodoro's memory. She would act, in a way, as the devil on the shoulder. "Build the mercenary company, manipulate the situation to make tons of money as long as no one gets super hurt, its all okay, right?" Where as Constantine would prefer to build the army up first and his mercenary company second--in order to support the nation in case of war with Qadira.
However, I'd rather not add more religious conflict.
Why not try Abadar?
He and Asmodeus are on manageable terms, and Asmodeus respects Abadar's lawful/civilization aspects.
And it definitely would fit the "hoard gold" part.
And it definitely would fit the "hoard gold" part.
Abadar DOES bring the bling.
I guess Besmara would be a good deity for an Edward Kenway type character. Though, yeah, that'd really chafe in Taldan society.
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Fair enough—it would be a pretty silly conflict to add. If you want to go with entertaining, you could also go with someone who's a skilled siege gunner—some way of getting True Strike, and either Shrink Item or Telekinetic Assembly—or just an oversized Double Hackbut, Improved Vital Strike, and easy access to Enlarge Person and True Strike.
(An abyssal bloodrager, for instance, or any bloodrager with metamagic rager, could become enlarged as part of a greater bloodrage, pull out a gigantic oversized gun, cast quickened true strike several rounds in a row, with blooded arcane strike letting each hit deal around 18d6+15 damage—while still having enough feats left over to be an effective pistol-user, and enough charisma to be a dashing rogue)
A pirate cohort also gives me a great reason to disapprove of you. "Constantine would be my favorite son... the only one with the courage and skill to accomplish as much as his father, growing up in older relatives' shadow like I did... but why did he have to bring home that
How...do you get 18d6 with that? I think the conversion would for a large double hackbut would be 4d8.
I'm trying to find a workable privateer warlord..but using a one-handed weapon and a pistol doesn't seem to work well with any of the actual maneuvers. The sword and pistol feat has so many prerequisites! She'd end up spending five feats just to not provoke in order to shoot people in the face in melee with thrashing dragon maneuvers...may still be worth it just for the hell of it though.
The flavor may not be what you want, but try the Savage Technologist
Can do exactly what you're looking for, but only with one-handed firearm and one-handed/light melee weapon.
Plus, get's rage to Strength and Dexterity!
Honestly, the sword & pistol feat is super expensive. There's another one for using [any] ranged weapon in Melee without provoking APPs, that I'd recommend, as it does the same thing, but it's a lot more versatile. I can't remember the name of it for the life of me though.
If it comes down to it, I feel like as long as you have 2-weapon fighting, point-blank shot, and a +6 Bab, I'm fine with you having sword & pistol as a feat.
---edit---
Point-blank master , maybe?
Per CG worshiped of Besmara...
You guys ever read the Dragon Lance books?
The halflings in that setting had this thing about them... They were theives in the best of ways. "It wasn't locked, so it must be free!" or in the case that it was locked up "Your lock wasn't good enough, so it must be free!"
Also, with me working 2 jobs, and dealing with some court ordered community service this month, my schedule has been hectic, and I've not made as much progress on the reading as I should've.
We're still a go, I'm just starting to run behind. This is only a temporary thing, as after the 23rd, my schedule will be clearing up by necessity.
I'm halfway through writing up your first scene, and should only be a day or so behind what I had planned. I'm trying to be as descriptive as what I see in my mind's eye, so you get the full scope.
Also, as the Group RP is "officially" homebrew canaan, I'll need to know any prevalent information that would've happened in the last 4 months regarding your Character's (non?)involvement With those events.
So, that means Sunday for the first gameplay post?
Just trying to get things in order.
I would rather wait another day for quality work than get something that isn't your best, so take your time.
I'm patient.
As for the events of the past four months, do you want that sent to you in a PM?
I feel it would make it easier to discuss...things with you, and then post the final version here, maybe?
Point-Blank Master is what you use to avoid AoEs. The sword and pistol feat has prerequisites that are worth it for any ranged martial character, though I generally consider Warlords to be casters, not martial characters. I believe that there's also a swashbuckler archetype that focuses on sword and pistol.
Double Hackbut is 2d12; since 1d12->3d6, I assume 2d12->6d6. Improved Vital Strike means x3, to 18d6. Blooded Arcane Strike and Dex give you the extra +15. If you've got another character (such as a wizard) casting Named Bullet, that damage goes up to 36d6+60, for a single 200-damage hit. It's a silly option.
...I'm patient.
As for the events of the past four months, do you want that sent to you in a PM?
I feel it would make it easier to discuss...things with you, and then post the final version here, maybe?
YOU BETTER BE PATIENT. =P
Also, "....things" sounds so ominous...
Tbeard, I have decided that you are the online secret identity of my friend Ted. He's the only other person that I know of that can spout off rules and come up with the ridiculous things you do.
Can we get a clear ruling from the GM on how followers interact with the downtime system?
Hmm. I only know one Ted like that, but he makes low-budget horror films. Also, I have thunderbolts on my face.
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So, regardless of actual rules, I'll say you don't have to pay initial cost for follower teams, but you'll have upkeep costs, because they work for you/your estate.
Yes, PM me what you've done inn regards to carnaval events. Depending on what it is, I'll share the public repercussions with the group before game officially starts.
As it stands, I'm looking at Sunday for the start. That still might get pushed out because I've got a college graduation to attend this weekend.
I assumed that quality over quantity was the Standard feeling, and I'd like that to be true for all of you as well.
For ruling on firearms, if you can find it [at level 12], paizo approved is GM approved. Size accordingly.
As said before, combat is not the focus, and what you can do, I can do better.
Would it be possible to use our pool of gp every month to pay for our followers?
That'd be ideal.
Alright, I'll probably send you a PM tomorrow.
Sunday is fine, and I, too, lean towards quality.
I think the discussion here was mainly for fun.
I don't think anyone's going to be buying a Large double hackbut, although I did buy two light trebuchets.
The hope is that you create an estate that's not in the Red monthly. Another way to. Say this is that your estate should be at MINIMUM self sustaining, and hopefully bringing you income.
Wait, do buildings have an upkeep cost? Jesus the downtime rules are SO confusing. Literally the ONLY thing I know how to do is figure out how to purchase the buildings.
buildings do not have an upkeep.
I'm reading more as we speak.
Hm..now debating between a gunsmoke mystic who changes out a discipline for thrashing Dragon to use pistol/outlaws or boarding axe all gun fu while shooting lightning bolts or a spellalinger/arcanist focsed on boosting caster level, rime snowballs and spell specialization enervation
I'm horrible, and therefore working on my cohort today. I do things last minute too frequently. I decided on a Pixie, likely a rogue of some-sort, but I can't decide if I want to go straight rogue or do an archetype.
When designing Nev, I specifically wanted her to bash heads, but not be terrible at the whole diplomacy thing. When I was talking to a friend about it he said: "You're trying to have everything, you can't do that very well." Etc, but I don't want to be GOOD at politics, I just don't want to totally screw it up for everyone else. Considering this is a game that centers around The Grand Game and is a social based game rather than martial, I really don't want to put us in a situation where Nev is SO naive about politics that she puts us in a bad place.
To help balance that, I chose the Pixie. He can spy for her, be knowledgable in such matters, and give her advice. I'm picturing him as the more or less classic Pixie, who loves pranks and causing harmless trouble, but he's OLD. To the point that he remembers Taldor when it was glorious, and he would like to see that again, which is why he is interested in our party. I can definitely see him sneaking about, stealing, etc, but for "the good of things." Such as, hey, there's this one super corrupt family that keeps getting away with things, until he sneaks in and plants something in their home so embarrassing that it totally damages their reputation in Taldor, thus ruining them. I think he and Gabrielle will get along famously.
So... Straight rogue, or archetype?
Hmm. I only know one Ted like that, but he makes low-budget horror films. Also, I have thunderbolts on my face.
Ohhhhh. Low-budget horror films... That sounds amusing. And thunderbolts on your face? I'm totally picturing Zeus, with a beard made of thunderbolts...
You could do something like this with the Pixie
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rzop?The-Songbird-of-Doom-A-Guide-to-a-most
DM may or may not approve...
That said, a Pixie who essentially had constant greater invisibility? Yeah, Rogue fodder right there, esp unchained rogue. With TWF.
Hm, I might have Lady Gabrielle change out her ring of protection for that ring of seven lovely colors. It'll make for a great escape/disguise item.
She would also totally love to have someone she can ask to take down nobles of her choosing.
EDIT: Where the heck are the raven stats published, anyways?
-Matt
An unchained Rogue would deal more damage, if you're into that. And I believe pixie can qualify you for arcane trickster if you take a single dip into a caster class, though more casters are fun but not a necessity.
Am I the only one a little apprehensive on combat encounters potentially being WAY too easy with up powered party of 12?