The Inheiritance of the Crimson Sun (Legacy of Fire AP in Dark Sun)

Game Master Sebecloki

Maps and Images:

Battlemaps:

Current Encounter Maps:

Myceloid Cavern
Earth Drake Layer: Overview
Earth Drake Layer w/our Grid
Earth Drake Layer w/ Grid

Battlemaps
Hex Grid

The Ruins of Kalidnay
The Ruins of Kalidnay I: The Ceramic Desert and Outskirts of New Kalid
The Ruins of Kalidnay II: Elder Kalidnay and the Diamond Mines of Khnum-Khamunkhephres
The Ruins of Kalidnay III: The Iridescent Desert and Magma Lake

Setting Maps

The Free City of Tyr
The Ruins of Yaramuke
The City State of Raam

The World of Athas

World Map I
World Map II
World Map III

Some additional ideas from the 'Arena' discussion forums of Athas.org that I will be using for this fan-created expansion of the Dark Sun world map include ideas from the following threads:

East side of the Sea of Silt

Beyond the Tablelands

And here are some ideas I will be incorporating in some fashion if Spelljamming ever comes up:

Dark Sun Sphere

The Tablelands and Beyond

The Tablelands I
The Tablelands II
The Tablelands and Beyond I
The Tablelands and Beyond II

Giuestenal

The Ruins of Giustenal
New Giuestenal

Chapter One: The Howl of the Carrion King

Tyr Region

The Ruins of Kalidnay Overview

The Riese: Levels 1-2
The Riese -- Side Perspective

The Scarab Hold: The Fortress of the High Templar Ahmun-Ahnpur -- Overview
The Scarab Hold: The Fortress of the High Templar Ahmun-Ahnpur -- The Spires of Apep: The Central Keep

Destiny's Chariot -- Overview
Destiny's Chariot -- Detail

Trading Post of Kelmarane I
Trading Post of Kelmarane II

Battle Market of Kelmarane -- Ground Level
Battle Market of Kelmarane -- Second Level

Temple of Elemental Earth of Kelmarane

Guard Post I
Guard Post II

Sulfuric Baths of Kelmarane -- Overview
Sulfuric Baths of Kelmarane -- Detail

Guild Hall of Kelmarane

Mills


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Female Half-Elf Alchemist (Eldritch Poisoner) 6 | Warder 6 | Guild Poisoner 2

I suppose I can work with that. I want Jin to have a pet to provide a humanizing contrast to her ruthlessness, paranoia, and occasional sadism. I don't really care about having a combat-effective companion, except insofar as it doesn't die in a stiff breeze in this high-powered environment. I'll build them for survivability above all other concerns: no one is going to need to worry about feeling overshadowed unless their schtick is 'spend the entire combat focused wholly on staying alive, and maybe occasionally providing a flanking bonus.'


I think that would make sense to build them more with specific shticks like intimidation, or trap finding, or flanking, or something like that, rather than being full casters or heavy combatants -- use it as an opportunity to explore less-used classes or builds, not just munchkin stuff.


Male Yaksha Shadow Lord Stalker 6/Harbinger 6(gestalt) Trickster 2(mythic), Mage Hunter 2

Just to make sure, will our companions also get access to the Horrifically OP feats?

Also, for animal companions(familiars do *not* get a HD increase), how will the gestalt interact with their hit dice?

A 3rd level companion has 3 HD, while one at 6 has 6, and a 8th level one has 7.

Will they be able to gestalt one class with their animal HD? Or will they still get two classes?

I assume they also get mythic and the option for taking a PrC?

If they receive bonus HD from a template, and they are able to take HOP feats, are they able to take extra HOP feats at the same rate as class levels?

Ie, if I have wolf companion as a 6th level druid, which has 6 hit dice, and it has a template that increases their HD to 12, can they take up to 12 HOP, or are they limited to 6 from actual class levels??


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Hamza Mīnakshi wrote:

Just to make sure, will our companions also get access to the Horrifically OP feats?

Also, for animal companions(familiars do *not* get a HD increase), how will the gestalt interact with their hit dice?

A 3rd level companion has 3 HD, while one at 6 has 6, and a 8th level one has 7.

Will they be able to gestalt one class with their animal HD? Or will they still get two classes?

I assume they also get mythic and the option for taking a PrC?

If they receive bonus HD from a template, and they are able to take HOP feats, are they able to take extra HOP feats at the same rate as class levels?

Ie, if I have wolf companion as a 6th level druid, which has 6 hit dice, and it has a template that increases their HD to 12, can they take up to 12 HOP, or are they limited to 6 from actual class levels??

I'm trying to make this easy and consistent: what I explicitly don't want is everyone with one of these entities having it constructed differently so that there are dozens of questions about edge cases, how rules interact, whether or not different combinations of HD and class levels and templates are equal or not to other configurations, and so on and so forth.

I want to use one set of rules that is identical to the PC rules that get applied to all the entities in the category of cohort, animal companion, familiar etc. I want them to be exactly the same as a pc except you're using animal for race.

Just ignore the difference between familiars and companions for HD. We're going to treat each case like you're using a base animal or exotic race as you race. Start with the base creature from the bestiary and build it exactly the same as a PC -- you're just substituting the animal for a race.


Hamza Mīnakshi wrote:

I have the confused. The section on vitality says 'Use the creature’s Hit Dice to generate its vitality points, just like you would hit points, but without adding the creature’s Constitution modifier.'

Yet, the chart says to add your Con mod, as does the section on leveling: 'at each level a character rolls a vitality die and adds his Constitution modifier.'

Should I assume that first line is a mistake?

Also, for those of us that bathed in the red god's pool, you said we can choose which stat and modifier we use. Was that just for wounds, vitality, or both?

I think I've finished rewriting the Wounds and Vitality house rules. I'm going to split all of these things: Healing Surges, Wounds and Vitality, Action Points into separate files.

I rewrote it so you pick either Constitution or Charisma to calculate your health scores -- so either you do it like a normal living thing, or like an undead or construct.


Are there any classes that use stats other than Con (scarred witch doctor), Int, Wis, and Cha for casting? I'm trying to finalize some additional magic alternative rules. I'm going to allow everyone to pick alternative casting stats if they want from the list of options that currently exist.


AC 39/36/36 | CMB/D 27/45 | Vig 151/151 Wnd 68/68 (20) | F+20 R +19, W +18; +2 vs. enchantments, +2 charm Init +24; Senses darkvision 120 ft., low-light vision*4; Perception +42 | Speed: 90 (Spider Climb + Dandelion Treat) | Defensive Abilities danger sense +2, evasion, uncanny dodge, vigor; DR 5/silver; Immune sleep, disease, enchan; Resist cold 10, electricity 10, fire 12; Fast Healing 2

Wow that's crazy^^

Con and Cha are the same for me, so no difference.
Also Fort saves still rely on Con as well as some other stuff, right?
Will there be repercussions for being undead or using stats like undead?
There probably should be^^
Like stinking of rotten meat etc.
Or certain body parts not working anymore hehehe.

Even though Amunet-Ra is already half-undead thanks to the template you "awarded" her, she'ld really love to stay alive.
After all she already is immortal!

I think we as a group need to tie together a bit more, what definately is in the players hands. So some more player interactions :D


No, I'm just giving 2 options for health calculation instead of just making it any stat.


Just to outline what this ritual is (and which everyone has to respond to, obviously in their next post in some fashion) and where the story is going:

There wasn't actually really any Twelve Champions of Celik, though the rest of the story is real about the rivalry between Kalidnay and Celik and all that. This is a story that Slavathras made up, but the ritual binds everyone to potential punishment by ueber powerful tulpas if they step out of line. In other words, the Twelve Champions are like Slender Man, and will materialize and destroy anyone who abrogates the oath. Everyone will take a new name as an epithet in addition to their own, something like one of the Champions i.e., 'Red Tusk', and swear in a fashion appropriate to their character.

The caves you're currently in are one of the ways to get past the bottle neck of this death trap area, which is the junction between the 'inner' and 'outer' halls of Kla'Tra'Yee's Tomb. Once you get out of the caves, there's basically a long hall that goes to the Tomb of the Keymaster, and which contains the exit to the upper ruins. That's also where you can get the thing promised to the Serpent Singer Dreadseer. I'd like to try to move this along without pulling a GoT Seasons 7-8 and just skipping stuff. If we all have that in mind, let's try to focus on getting this tomb area done and move on into the Kalidnay surface ruins.


Male Yaksha Shadow Lord Stalker 6/Harbinger 6(gestalt) Trickster 2(mythic), Mage Hunter 2

Not be a jerk,

But with all the extra feats you're giving every PC, wounds/vitality being either Con or Cha, and making us pay for the Paragon stat boost out of our allotted HOP feats,

What was the benefit for those of us who opted to bath in the Red God's pool?

Don't get me wrong, I understand wanting the PCs to be more or less on an even playing field,

But in game benefits/boons/blessings why do they all start with B? shouldn't be just tossed aside for the sake of 'everyone being equal'.

Because then you are invalidating in game PC choices and roleplay.

What happens if Hamaza is presented with an opportunity to make a Faustian style pact? And nobody else is? Are you gonna just arbitrarily award the other PCs some sort of power boost?

I realize you could also never include such a scene in game, but it seems such deals with powerful entities is built into the story your telling.

Please don't mistake this for my wanting more power than the other PCs, or being a munchkin or power hungry.

Hamza made a choice, and while he did get some nice benefits, I expect there to be consequences for bathing in pool as well.

At this point, it seems like there was no point for him to take that risk, as every benefit he gained has been more or less given to all the other PCs, even the ones who just joined the game.


Hamza Mīnakshi wrote:

Not be a jerk,

But with all the extra feats you're giving every PC, wounds/vitality being either Con or Cha, and making us pay for the Paragon stat boost out of our allotted HOP feats,

What was the benefit for those of us who opted to bath in the Red God's pool?

Don't get me wrong, I understand wanting the PCs to be more or less on an even playing field,

But in game benefits/boons/blessings why do they all start with B? shouldn't be just tossed aside for the sake of 'everyone being equal'.

Because then you are invalidating in game PC choices and roleplay.

What happens if Hamaza is presented with an opportunity to make a Faustian style pact? And nobody else is? Are you gonna just arbitrarily award the other PCs some sort of power boost?

I realize you could also never include such a scene in game, but it seems such deals with powerful entities is built into the story your telling.

Please don't mistake this for my wanting more power than the other PCs, or being a munchkin or power hungry.

Hamza made a choice, and while he did get some nice benefits, I expect there to be consequences for bathing in pool as well.

At this point, it seems like there was no point for him to take that risk, as every benefit he gained has been more or less given to all the other PCs, even the ones who just joined the game.

Honestly I was trying to change the build mechanics gradually through story devices. There was supposed to be one shrine that did physical stuff, and gave feats, one that did mental stuff, and had feats, and a third that gave levels and feats.

I can see your point though -- I'm willing to players who bathed in the pool keep the additional feats and whatever on top of the build rules outlined in the game play tab, but also attach a heretofore unrevealed drawback which will at some point become apparent.

Does that seem fair?


Male Clockspeaker Bard 6/Clockstopper Gunislinger 6/Genius 3 (Gestalt Necrotech Necros 6)(Spellcaster Incanter 3)(Prestigious Necromant 1) | Vitality: 84/84 | Wounds: 36/36 | AC: 35 | TAC: 31 | FFAC: 28 | Fort: 16 | Refex: 19 | Will: 17 | CMD: 33
Resources:
24 Spell Points|2/3 Dancing Lights|1/1 Faerie Fire|1/1 Entangle|1/1 Glitterdust|1/1 Deep Slumber|1/1 Missive|26/27 Rounds Bardic Perform|4/10 Hypertoxins|9/9 Mythic Power|

Yeah--If you gave them just a boost of having the ability to have one additional Horrifically Overpowered feat, that'd be more than enough. Because I actually went out and bought all the other Horrifically Overpowered books, so if anyone wants to borrow them, I wouldn't mind finding a way to temporarily share them(Wouldn't want to invalidate the author's work by just giving them away, after all)


AC 39/36/36 | CMB/D 27/45 | Vig 151/151 Wnd 68/68 (20) | F+20 R +19, W +18; +2 vs. enchantments, +2 charm Init +24; Senses darkvision 120 ft., low-light vision*4; Perception +42 | Speed: 90 (Spider Climb + Dandelion Treat) | Defensive Abilities danger sense +2, evasion, uncanny dodge, vigor; DR 5/silver; Immune sleep, disease, enchan; Resist cold 10, electricity 10, fire 12; Fast Healing 2

Nice, another post has been eaten. That begins to bother me....

Seems fair to me, but i have to look it up. Don't remember what we got back there.

I consider Amunet-Ra ready for the moment. There are some further plans i have and i need to update the sheet again to make it a bit less confusing.


Male Yaksha Shadow Lord Stalker 6/Harbinger 6(gestalt) Trickster 2(mythic), Mage Hunter 2

Yeah, I'm 100% okay with their being some drawback to go along with the benefits. Hamza took a calculated risk and hopes the rewards outweigh the consequences.

If memory serves, we got 4 bonus combat feats, the option to use whichever stat we wanted for wounds/vitality, and the physical paragon HOP feat.


I need to work on exactly the mechanics in light of the other rebuilding

This arrangement would also carry the understanding that the new party members will have different opportunities to make faustian bargains of some kind.

We'd definitely keep the additional progression of feats. Give me a couple of days to work out the other details.

EDIT: I'm going to do an update and divide some of the rewritten files into different sections like 'health' etc. I'm basically trying to do a first draft of rewriting the game to make my own ideal form of 3.5/PF, so this will be a gradual process.

Some other things I'm thinking about:

*For Defiling, I want to make it possible to have a critical success in spell-casting, like if you rolled really well the damage would double, but there would also be wild magic results every time you did it, as well as the possibility of a critical fumble where the magic rebounds on its caster.

*Making some kind of unique mechanic for if you get low on health -- like the planet starts trying to eat your life force, or the spirits of the gray start reaching through the barrier to possess your soul.


Male Weremonkey Rogue/Ranger/Trickster

I found this after you suggested I read up on variant magic systems and rules for the Rise game.

I believe making use of all of these Active Spellcasting rules would cover your desire for boosting defiling magic.

Personally, I would suggest apply the above variants to all forms of spellcasting(Defiling, Preserving, etc.) but increase the benefits for Defiling based on how much the Defiler is drawing from their surroundings.

You should also find a way to boost Preserving, but not the same way as Defiling. Unsure what that should be right now. Maybe healing the caster or their allies? Creating some sort of protective spell as a rider effect on the actual spell?


The fluff concept in Dark Sun is that Defiling is much more powerful, but also kind of dangerous. I'd like to give Preserving something special, but also still preserve the mechanical distinction (and temptation) that Defiling is by raw measure a major power up.


Lion Heart: Witch/Godling(6) | Vitality: 119 | Wounds: 62 | AC: 50 | T: 44 | FF: 37 | DR: 10/silver | Fort: +30 | Ref: +36 | Will: +29 | CMD: 39 | Init: 20 | Per: 22 | Speed: 150' | Low-light Vision | Darkvision: 60' | See in darkness | Immunity: Electricity / Inhaled poisons, gas, fog, or cloud-based attacks and spells | Resistance: Cold:10 |

I don't understand the oath. It doesn't seem like Slav actually swore anything.


Everyone's supposed to swear in their own fashion according to their own creed or whatever, since there isn't a unifying element among all the characters. He's swearing by the luminaries of his own people to uphold this oath.

The words are in the section, "”By that which bends and breaks, finds and makes, sends and shapes, wends and waits, by that which calls and echoes, signs and portents tremble, by that which is both whole and absent,”


I want everyone to make up their own little culturally specific ritual, I was providing a model with the NPCs.


Lion Heart: Witch/Godling(6) | Vitality: 119 | Wounds: 62 | AC: 50 | T: 44 | FF: 37 | DR: 10/silver | Fort: +30 | Ref: +36 | Will: +29 | CMD: 39 | Init: 20 | Per: 22 | Speed: 150' | Low-light Vision | Darkvision: 60' | See in darkness | Immunity: Electricity / Inhaled poisons, gas, fog, or cloud-based attacks and spells | Resistance: Cold:10 |

Sure, but what is he swearing to do?


Cae Leonidas wrote:
Sure, but what is he swearing to do?

I thought I made that clear in these posts:

Quote:

Slavathras of the Deadlands 6 hours, 19 minutes ago | Flag | List | Reply
+
Umbragen

The elf then produces a diminutive ceramic shard from some recess of his voluminous ebony robes, or that is what they appear to be... the outside surface is slick, like a wet hide. By contrast, the lining of his garment is a dense sea of some kind of purple material, perhaps... organic. From the folds of this mysterious garment the elf produces the small piece of ceramic. It is apparently inscribed with some of kinds of runes.

"Behold, fellow travelers, a shard from the broken tablet of the messenger of Oscalgarum!"

"At least, that was its claimed provenance in the market place of Celik. I acquired it from a merchant in the teeming markets of the Living City, the quarter of the vast ruin which House Maraneth of Kalidnay, driven from the ancient metropolis, like House Vordon, by the devastation of the ruins above, has reclaimed for its own purposes."

"We have come, our motley party, from many quarters, many races, many lands, and embrace many creeds and destinies. We are united, strangers, by naught but our pledge one to another to survive the terrors of these ruins."

"Let us seal the pact, one to another, with the ancient pledge of the Twelve Champions of Celik, that we shall be loyal one to another, and that alone, and that we shall suffer the fate of this shattered artifact lest any trespass the Pact of the Broken Tablet. Let us swear this binding oath and be known henceforth as the Company of the Broken Tablet."
Slavathras of the Deadlands 6 hours, 15 minutes ago | Flag | List | Reply
+
Umbragen

"Know, strangers, that the spirits of the ancient worthies Storm Cloud, Fleet Hands, Grey Cowl, Sun Fear, Death Talon, Red Tusk, Basalm, Three Fangs, Whisper, Skull Snapper, Shivers, and Rune Teacher, who bound themselves to the same oath, shall observe and maintain our oaths, and punish those who forsake them."

"In the swearing of this oath, you shall each take upon yourself an oath name to bind the pact."


Lion Heart: Witch/Godling(6) | Vitality: 119 | Wounds: 62 | AC: 50 | T: 44 | FF: 37 | DR: 10/silver | Fort: +30 | Ref: +36 | Will: +29 | CMD: 39 | Init: 20 | Per: 22 | Speed: 150' | Low-light Vision | Darkvision: 60' | See in darkness | Immunity: Electricity / Inhaled poisons, gas, fog, or cloud-based attacks and spells | Resistance: Cold:10 |

He doesn't say anything in his oath.

Is it to survive the ruins? We want to do that anyway.

Is it to be loyal to one another? That is ambiguous for something that we can be punished for violating. Also, we've barely met some of these people.


It's not in the legal form "I swear X, Y, and Z"; he preformed a ritual invoking the names of his ancestors to the conditions enumerated in the posts I just quoted:

Quote:

"Let us seal the pact, one to another, with the ancient pledge of the Twelve Champions of Celik, that we shall be loyal one to another, and that alone, and that we shall suffer the fate of this shattered artifact lest any trespass the Pact of the Broken Tablet. Let us swear this binding oath and be known henceforth as the Company of the Broken Tablet."

They are swearing to be loyal to each other on the basis of whatever individually they would sweat by, since they cannot all sweat to the ancestors of the Thought Makers, or whatever.

They are swearing on that honor to complete their common task of protecting one another and surviving the ruins.

Quote:


Is it to be loyal to one another? That is ambiguous for something that we can be punished for violating. Also, we've barely met some of these people.

that's the entire point of the story he told and why he's modeling their compact on it.


Also, this whole conversation could be a discussion between Cae and Slavathras. Let's try to not move things into the discussion thread that could be hashed out by the characters themselves.


Lion Heart: Witch/Godling(6) | Vitality: 119 | Wounds: 62 | AC: 50 | T: 44 | FF: 37 | DR: 10/silver | Fort: +30 | Ref: +36 | Will: +29 | CMD: 39 | Init: 20 | Per: 22 | Speed: 150' | Low-light Vision | Darkvision: 60' | See in darkness | Immunity: Electricity / Inhaled poisons, gas, fog, or cloud-based attacks and spells | Resistance: Cold:10 |

I am planning on having it in-character. I just wanted to be certain about what is being proposed so there aren't misunderstandings leading to confusion and retcons. Especially when conveying everything in rhymes. =)


AC 39/36/36 | CMB/D 27/45 | Vig 151/151 Wnd 68/68 (20) | F+20 R +19, W +18; +2 vs. enchantments, +2 charm Init +24; Senses darkvision 120 ft., low-light vision*4; Perception +42 | Speed: 90 (Spider Climb + Dandelion Treat) | Defensive Abilities danger sense +2, evasion, uncanny dodge, vigor; DR 5/silver; Immune sleep, disease, enchan; Resist cold 10, electricity 10, fire 12; Fast Healing 2

Be strong,
Rhyme on.


Male Thri'Kreen UMonk 5/Psychic 5|Champion 3 | Vigor 71/71 Wounds 28/28 T14 | AC:38 T:27 Fl:31 | CMB: +10 CMD: 34 | F +9 R +10 W +9 | Init +10 | Perc: +12 Sense Motive +12
Resources:
Spells: 1st 5/7 2nd 4/5 | Ki pool 4/5 | Mythic Power 8/9
Current Effects:
Mage Armor, Resist Energy (Acid), Shield

I keep not having time to read through all of that. XD I should be able to get caught up tonight.


Female Half-Elf Alchemist (Eldritch Poisoner) 6 | Warder 6 | Guild Poisoner 2

When you told me to move my character over to this thread, you said that chargen rules were generally similar to the old game, just add either two mythic tiers and two PrC levels or three mythic tiers.

Now that I'm looking over your chargen rules in the Campaign Info tab to give Gu a full build, I'm noticing several discrepancies: I didn't double the first level's worth of Vitality, I didn't use the nonstandard amount of mythic feats, I didn't use the feats from my prestige-class side, I wasn't aware HOFeats were an option, I didn't know we were using the EITR feat taxes, I didn't know everyone got Signature Skill* and Combat Stamina, I didn't know we were doing Automatic Bonus Progression on top of Chopping Down the Christmas Tree, and I didn't know we got five traits. Before I update Jin to reflect these, and before I finish Gu's sheet, I just wanted to confirm that those chargen rules are still current.

*By Signature Skill (General), do you mean that characters get the Signature Skill effects for any *one* skill they select, or the Signature Skill effects for *every* skill?


Jin En Mok wrote:

When you told me to move my character over to this thread, you said that chargen rules were generally similar to the old game, just add either two mythic tiers and two PrC levels or three mythic tiers.

Now that I'm looking over your chargen rules in the Campaign Info tab to give Gu a full build, I'm noticing several discrepancies: I didn't double the first level's worth of Vitality, I didn't use the nonstandard amount of mythic feats, I didn't use the feats from my prestige-class side, I wasn't aware HOFeats were an option, I didn't know we were using the EITR feat taxes, I didn't know everyone got Signature Skill* and Combat Stamina, I didn't know we were doing Automatic Bonus Progression on top of Chopping Down the Christmas Tree, and I didn't know we got five traits. Before I update Jin to reflect these, and before I finish Gu's sheet, I just wanted to confirm that those chargen rules are still current.

*By Signature Skill (General), do you mean that characters get the Signature Skill effects for any *one* skill they select, or the Signature Skill effects for *every* skill?

Sorry I forgot to add those -- I went over that with the two other characters, but I forgot to update you on that other stuff. You're correct on all that, just update when you have a chance.


Male LN Human gestalt unchained monk/psion (kineticist) 6 | overmind 3 | Vigor 137/137 | Wound 36/36 | AC 30 t 23 ff 23 | CMB+21 CMD 36 | F+11 R+12 W+11 | Init +12 | Perc +13, SM +13 | Speed 50ft | Stunning Fist: 6/6 | Ki: 7/7 | Power Points: 55/73 | Psionic Focus: 2/2 | Mythic Power: 9/9 | Emissary: 1/1 | Eternal Hope: 1/1 | Hero points: 1 | Denied: 1/1 | Extended Attack: 8/8 | Empowered Attack: 7/7 | Active conditions: none

The last question was an either or. I was also unclear about what we get regarding signature skills and unlocks.


any one skill


Male Yaksha Shadow Lord Stalker 6/Harbinger 6(gestalt) Trickster 2(mythic), Mage Hunter 2

I'm just about finished updating Hamza, just need the full benefits from the Red God's pool, and I should be good.


Male Yaksha Shadow Lord Stalker 6/Harbinger 6(gestalt) Trickster 2(mythic), Mage Hunter 2

Seb,

The Imperial Food Creature template grants spellcasting as a 10th level sorcerer.

I would like to my familiar to have levels in sorcerer, for flavor reasons. Would it be okay if I only gave it the bloodline class features, and no actual spell casting? Because having my familiar cast spells as a 16th level caster(ie having 8th level spells) seems rather a lot.

Also, as Hamza has said a few times in game, I figure the casters of The Black and thus Alaka, draw their power from the shadowy nature of the plane itself.

Would it be okay if my familiar's spells are considered Umbral? I figure this would not only be thematically fitting, but also a neat way to get around the 'arcane magic is evil and users of such must be murdered' aspect of Dark Sun.

Umbral Spell:

A shadow weaver’s spells are umbral, not arcane, divine, psychic, or temporal. However, umbral spells have similar components to those of psychic spells (Pathfinder RPG Occult Adventures). Umbral spells have thought components instead of verbal components and emotion components instead of somatic components. A thought component requires only mental action and so is not spoiled by deafness or magical silence. However, when a spell with a thought component requires a concentration check, the DC of that check increased by 10 unless the shadow weaver spent a move action to center herself before beginning to cast the spell. An emotion component requires only mental action and so is not spoiled by grappling or helplessness. However, an umbral spell with an emotion component is more difficult to cast when under a non-harmless fear effect or emotion effect. Unlike a psychic spell, an umbral spell can be
cast under such an effect, but in order for the shadow weaver to cast it, she must succeed at a concentration check against the effect’s
save DC + twice spell’s level. For the purposes of liminal magic, an umbral spell has a mental source with a shadow origin.


Hamza Mīnakshi wrote:

Seb,

The Imperial Food Creature template grants spellcasting as a 10th level sorcerer.

I would like to my familiar to have levels in sorcerer, for flavor reasons. Would it be okay if I only gave it the bloodline class features, and no actual spell casting? Because having my familiar cast spells as a 16th level caster(ie having 8th level spells) seems rather a lot.

Also, as Hamza has said a few times in game, I figure the casters of The Black and thus Alaka, draw their power from the shadowy nature of the plane itself.

Would it be okay if my familiar's spells are considered Umbral? I figure this would not only be thematically fitting, but also a neat way to get around the 'arcane magic is evil and users of such must be murdered' aspect of Dark Sun.

** spoiler omitted **...

lol wut -- a CR+1 gives tenth level spellcasting PLUS other things? How is that not CR10?

Since we're homebrewing a dark shadow equivalent, the bloodline seems like a good compromise. Maybe add some other appropriate shadow powers from another template or archetype or something.

I'm fine with the umbral spell category since Athas already has the Shadow sorcerer epic prestige class. I'm now thinking I need to develop the fluff around Shadow magic a bit more, and really figure out how it relates to the preserver/defiler model. I may want to tweak some minor things in the future once I've thought through what I want shadow magic to look like.


Male Yaksha Shadow Lord Stalker 6/Harbinger 6(gestalt) Trickster 2(mythic), Mage Hunter 2

The base Foo Creature is +1. Imperial Foo Creature is a more powerful version, and only one of each type exists at any given time. It's a base CR 11.

My familar is going to be a raven that also has the bonuses of an animal companion.

I was considering also using the Half Fiend template, to better represent it being possessed by a powerful Raksasha Immortal (their version of gods).

While I realize this might be a lot, in addition to the normal creation rules we're using, it's still a raven and shouldn't be that powerful.

I'm okay with not using the templates, just figured this would be a rather unique and interesting companion that would also bring with it a lot of RP potential.


Male Clockspeaker Bard 6/Clockstopper Gunislinger 6/Genius 3 (Gestalt Necrotech Necros 6)(Spellcaster Incanter 3)(Prestigious Necromant 1) | Vitality: 84/84 | Wounds: 36/36 | AC: 35 | TAC: 31 | FFAC: 28 | Fort: 16 | Refex: 19 | Will: 17 | CMD: 33
Resources:
24 Spell Points|2/3 Dancing Lights|1/1 Faerie Fire|1/1 Entangle|1/1 Glitterdust|1/1 Deep Slumber|1/1 Missive|26/27 Rounds Bardic Perform|4/10 Hypertoxins|9/9 Mythic Power|

Wasn't there a template for large groups of medium creatures? The formation template, or some'tn like that?
I think with our general power level, we might get some good use out of that.


Male Thri'Kreen UMonk 5/Psychic 5|Champion 3 | Vigor 71/71 Wounds 28/28 T14 | AC:38 T:27 Fl:31 | CMB: +10 CMD: 34 | F +9 R +10 W +9 | Init +10 | Perc: +12 Sense Motive +12
Resources:
Spells: 1st 5/7 2nd 4/5 | Ki pool 4/5 | Mythic Power 8/9
Current Effects:
Mage Armor, Resist Energy (Acid), Shield

Yes, troops.


AC 39/36/36 | CMB/D 27/45 | Vig 151/151 Wnd 68/68 (20) | F+20 R +19, W +18; +2 vs. enchantments, +2 charm Init +24; Senses darkvision 120 ft., low-light vision*4; Perception +42 | Speed: 90 (Spider Climb + Dandelion Treat) | Defensive Abilities danger sense +2, evasion, uncanny dodge, vigor; DR 5/silver; Immune sleep, disease, enchan; Resist cold 10, electricity 10, fire 12; Fast Healing 2

Lol. Troops habe a totally different mechanic last I looked. Don't think that would be good for us. Better for the GM.

I have some options left and some ideas to forget develop this character. Of course it's Saturday evening emergency room with the kid, so I'll get back to that later - hopefully.

I'm a bit trapped between serpent and vampire at the moment.


Male Yaksha Shadow Lord Stalker 6/Harbinger 6(gestalt) Trickster 2(mythic), Mage Hunter 2
Amunet-Ra wrote:
I'm a bit trapped between serpent and vampire at the moment.

I was considering a vampiric path for Hamza, so if you wanna go more serpent with Amunet, that would mean we don't overlap...


AC 39/36/36 | CMB/D 27/45 | Vig 151/151 Wnd 68/68 (20) | F+20 R +19, W +18; +2 vs. enchantments, +2 charm Init +24; Senses darkvision 120 ft., low-light vision*4; Perception +42 | Speed: 90 (Spider Climb + Dandelion Treat) | Defensive Abilities danger sense +2, evasion, uncanny dodge, vigor; DR 5/silver; Immune sleep, disease, enchan; Resist cold 10, electricity 10, fire 12; Fast Healing 2

Kneel and free your throat...^^

I think i want to mix both flavors a bit. You can be my shadow infused spawn :D That would be a turn of events!


I'm looking at fluff material -- and Defilers and Preservers of Athas from 2e introduced the idea of the Sun, the Cerulean Storm, and the Plane of Shadow as power sources for either defilers or preservers, or at least the latter two -- I think Sadira's sun magic was sort of sui generis.

I think I want to build on some of these ideas, particularly the kits from the 2e voume, but with a slightly different take: here are my basic ideas for magic forms if the group would like to help me come up with ways to make them distinctive

Preserving (positive energy) -- I like Hamza's idea of the healing element. Any rules that exist anyone knows of that can reflect this idea?
Defiling (negative energy) -- I think there have been some good ideas thrown around here already.
Shadow Magic (Umbral) -- draws on the Black. Should overlap with Illusion to a significant extent Any ideas guys?
Grey Mages (the Gray) -- uses the Pact Magic rules with the concept being drawing power from spirits of the Gray.
Sun Mages -- ideas?
Moon mages -- (opposite of Sadira, more powerful at night -- I was thinking maybe something like an alienist/far realm flavor?)
Cerulean Storm mages -- again ideas?
Earth mages/geomancers -- again ideas (this is also an idea from Defilers and Preservers, though it's a kit). Might use gemstones. Might be like the metamind psionic prestige class, but instead of psicrystals you can store spell points and spells in gems.


Male Yaksha Shadow Lord Stalker 6/Harbinger 6(gestalt) Trickster 2(mythic), Mage Hunter 2

Seb, I'm currently at a Magic the Gathering event, and won't be home for at least several hours, but I have some material that I think can help here.


AC 39/36/36 | CMB/D 27/45 | Vig 151/151 Wnd 68/68 (20) | F+20 R +19, W +18; +2 vs. enchantments, +2 charm Init +24; Senses darkvision 120 ft., low-light vision*4; Perception +42 | Speed: 90 (Spider Climb + Dandelion Treat) | Defensive Abilities danger sense +2, evasion, uncanny dodge, vigor; DR 5/silver; Immune sleep, disease, enchan; Resist cold 10, electricity 10, fire 12; Fast Healing 2

Secret Spoiler:

Dice: 5d6 ⇒ (6, 3, 6, 6, 6) = 27 = 18
Dice: 5d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 1, 3, 6) = 21 = 17
Dice: 5d6 ⇒ (3, 1, 4, 5, 3) = 16 = 12
Dice: 5d6 ⇒ (4, 5, 5, 4, 6) = 24 = 16
Dice: 5d6 ⇒ (4, 5, 1, 2, 3) = 15 = 12
Dice: 5d6 ⇒ (6, 6, 3, 6, 6) = 27 = 18


Male Clockspeaker Bard 6/Clockstopper Gunislinger 6/Genius 3 (Gestalt Necrotech Necros 6)(Spellcaster Incanter 3)(Prestigious Necromant 1) | Vitality: 84/84 | Wounds: 36/36 | AC: 35 | TAC: 31 | FFAC: 28 | Fort: 16 | Refex: 19 | Will: 17 | CMD: 33
Resources:
24 Spell Points|2/3 Dancing Lights|1/1 Faerie Fire|1/1 Entangle|1/1 Glitterdust|1/1 Deep Slumber|1/1 Missive|26/27 Rounds Bardic Perform|4/10 Hypertoxins|9/9 Mythic Power|

Shadow Magic within D&D magic is usually best represented with Shadowstuff, which is quasireal, so maybe the advantage of is that illusions are significantly more powerful, but that there's a chance of disbelieving it, reducing the effectiveness of the magic. Maybe with a reality percentage equal to 5% per caster level?

Sun magic, I'd like to imagine, should actually be pretty sinister in this world, given what the sun kind of represents. Maybe it deals damage to the magic user every time they use it, and changes any damage types to half fire, half sacred fire?

The Cerulean Storm actually had a flavorful AF Prestige Class, the Cerulean Mage, that basically uses Cerulean lenses to focus the magic into their spells. But it was dangerous, because it could come back to bite you. Really, I think it works well with little changing, it's really flavorful and interesting.

Geomancers, given that your Athas is alive, should honestly be more like STP Erudites who have a tiny pool themselves, but can draw more power from the ground.


The idea of the Black in this iteration of Athas is that it's the remnants of the Feywild that was consumed by a xxyth lord, so the dark illusion element is exactly the angle I'm going for.

I was also thinking about some kind of mechanic that reflects the idea that the black is like a dark reflection of Athas, so you're getting in touch with/drawing upon the power of your shadow, which is like a doppleganger. You're always in danger of it eating you if you draw on it too much.


I want each of these magic options to be a 20 level class option -- any ideas on filling on the Cerulean Mage class into a base class. I'm not so into the idea from Defilers and Preservers of Athas that everything is just Defiling or Preserving and its just using different energy sources. I want Defiling, Preserving, Geomancy, etc. to all be different forms of magic.


Male Yaksha Shadow Lord Stalker 6/Harbinger 6(gestalt) Trickster 2(mythic), Mage Hunter 2

I got ya covered for some of this stuff Seb, but I need a short nap to recharge.

Also, can I get your thoughts on what I posted above for my familiar? From this morning.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

familiar sounds good


Male Yaksha Shadow Lord Stalker 6/Harbinger 6(gestalt) Trickster 2(mythic), Mage Hunter 2

Lost Spheres Publishing does a lot of what you’re looking for Seb. They have various different power sources. Talking to the owner/primary author for them, this is what we’ve come up with(His personal thoughts are in bold):

Arcane: The power of the universe drawn through the innate gifts of sorcerers and studied in the tomes of wizards.

Divine: The power of the Gods, drawn through creation and returned to their mortal vessels. Clerics, oracles and druids use this power source.

Entropic: The power of system failures in the universe and broken entities of great power. The umbral source is considered entropic for the echo, though some GMs may wish to make it a separate Source if they have higher instances of both.

”Entropic is going to be things like binders, spirit binders, pact mages, some mediums and spiritualists.”

This would be The Grey power source.

Mental: The power of the mind unlocked through self-awareness or rigorous study. Psions, wilders and similar classes fit this power source.

Obviously, Psychic Magic would fall here too.

Primal: The raw power of the cosmos and the natural energies of the world. (Some GMs may wish to reassign Druids this power source.)

”Primal is good for Druids, Metamorphs, and some of the Path of War Classes, if you use Spheres shifter and fey adept work great, arguable some radiants may count as primal.”

Temporal: The power of the flow of time. Exploited by Time Thieves, Time Reavers and Time Wardens alike to alter the course of reality.

Umbral: This would be the power source for The Black.

”Shadow Weaver is pretty much the best Shadow/Umbral thing out there... Path of Shadows classes are decent and RGG has Shadow Assassin and Shadow Warrior. Also the Eclipse.”

Other thoughts:

”I would probably get kinda weird with sun/moon mages... go godling (mechanically) snag oracle revelations to give them relevant themed abilities and matching lineage domains, unless the GM really wants to go for the alienist vibe. “

”I tended to affiliate alienist stuff in Dark Sun with psionics given Psurlons, Githyanki, and other psi-cultures that get a little Lovecrafty.”

Witches would default to Arcane, but would be Patron dependent.

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