Serinbaal the Lands of Torment ("Dark Sun" Homebrew Pathfinder 1e)

Game Master Sebecloki

You should write one up then Ehawee. It was the spear as an intelligent item right?

As I said, this is over a 10-1 combat, so this robot is absolutely insanely dreadful -- multiple attacks with the highest damage effects of technological weapons, twice a round with the dual initiative, with a high level of shielding and a lot of hit points -- and isn't going to die in a round.

It's also a defiling corrupted annihilator scorpion battle droid, so it has the corruptive haze I referenced above I'm including in my defiling rules. I'm using rules from how dragons from the Iron Kingdoms setting exude a polluting aura to model it mechanically. It will be very nasty.

Well that's kind of what i'm worried about :D

That works Cee thank you!

And do a write up for the companion or for an int spear weapon? Cuz i dunno which to use really. I never did ask. Sebe, which should i do? Or just copy the dude's character I that was suppose to come in?

You can either make up some magic item that is appropriate, or you can do it as a character with the same build rules as everyone else.

At this point, the orphaned character would have to be rebuilt, so I'm not sure that's such an easy option.

Couple of things:

Except in a few corner cases(and they are always called out as such) you can't apply the same modifier to a stat more than once.

Ie, you can't add 2x Cha to saves from say a Paladin's Divine Grace, and a PrC that does the same thing. Or in Hamza's case, I couldn't add Wis twice to initiative if he took Battlefield Intuition because he already adds it via Combat Insight.

I also agree that we have far too many companions. I understand how we're all getting them, but man, I think it's overboard at this point. At best, we should limit it to one per PC, for those who want them.

Finally, Seb, be careful that in making this droid all uber powerful to handle a 10 on 1 battle that you don't jack up it's stats beyond reason. Some of us aren't hella optimized after all.

We'll just have to see how it goes and adjust based on the data we accrue from this experiment. I want to do at least one battle before you face the dread wraith sovereign archdefiler and his minions to get a sense of where I need to pitch things.

This is also a situation where you'll have to probably use more strategy than just slugging stuff out.

See, now that you mention it, looking at the FAQ, I see your point. I'll tweak the build so that it's more rules-legal for 3.P.

A'Kyer shouldn't ever be used for combat. I'm not going to optimize him for it. I'm certainly not going to give him feats for it. I'd actually like to say that, unless given a reason to otherwise, he should auto-pass every round of combat.

SADIE will probaby be my go-to combat character, as I'd rather use her initiative(naturally), but ultimately Captain Alexander's best use is as a sort of behind-the-scenes, getting alternate objectives done sort of character. For instance. Captain Alexander's job right now is guiding SADIE to where Tyren currently is.

Hey Seb, since my familiar is a caster, would it be able to cast spells on me via the share spells ability?

Alright, so SADIE'S been tweaked, but the net result is now that she ultimately always has an initiative of exactly 66.
So, I replaced both the feats that granted WIS to Init, because a level in Sentinel already replaced Dex with Wis, and instead took Presence of Mind which gave Int to Init instead. As a Savant, SADIE has a...Pretty crazy intelligence score, so that's a +10.
Reason for Savant, instead of Monk Creature? Is for that sweet, sweet Uncanny Dodge, which netted Greater Improved Initiative, which treats any Initiative Roll for the determination of place during Initiative as a 20.

Hey Seb, since my familiar is a caster, would it be able to cast spells on me via the share spells ability?

** spoiler omitted **

That raises a important question I think we should establish some mechanical limits and fluff for.

Let me just be clear that I don't want familiars etc. with their own companions -- either don't choose classes that have buddies for your buddy, or come up with some alternative feature to replace that. I definitely don't want phantoms with animal companions or familiars with familiars or eidolons with animal companions or whatever.

I think the simplest thing would be to write up a new version of that ability for familiars, with the idea they can share the spell with their master. There are probably some other, similar abilities we'll have to make house rules for.

I think his question was more, Could Share Spells, the Class Feature his character has, be used as a way for his pet to Share Spells with him?

That raises a important question I think we should establish some mechanical limits and fluff for.

Let me just be clear that I don't want familiars etc. with their own companions -- either don't choose classes that have buddies for your buddy, or come up with some alternative feature to replace that. I definitely don't want phantoms with animal companions or familiars with familiars or eidolons with animal companions or whatever.

I think the simplest thing would be to write up a new version of that ability for familiars, with the idea they can share the spell with their master. There are probably some other, similar abilities we'll have to make house rules for.

That's not what I was suggesting. Hamza is the master, and his cat is his familiar. It does not have it's own companion.

What I was wondering is if the familiar bond could work both ways for share spells, which is an ability all familiars get.

You're also misunderstanding my reply -- I'm not suggesting that you're suggesting a regression of familiars, I'm just ruling that out. However, that does leave a hole in the rules where we'll have to make adjustments for familiars having classes with familiar related abilities.

Based on Tyren's and your reply I'm very unclear what the question is now:

(1) Is it Hamza who has share spell or the familiar?
(2) If it is Hamza, and you're asking can you do something the rules don't state with share spell, then the answer is no. I don't understand why that would be contemplated -- that's adding significant utility to a class ability. What would be the argument for that? That seems to just open a huge window to letting everyone rewrite class abilities without much restriction.
(3) If the answer is the familiar has share spell, and you want to make Hamza take the place of the familiar's familiar in this equation, then the answer is we need to make up house rules to deal with these kinds of abilities that assume the presence of a familiar, which a familiar doesn't have, since otherwise they can't use any of these class abilities.

"What I was wondering is if the familiar bond could work both ways for share spells, which is an ability all familiars get."

I don't understand this statement at all -- what ability exactly does the familiar have? Does RAW already say what you're asking is possible (that share spell works reciprocally caster-familiar and familiar-caster), in which case what is the question?

I'm actually not sure if it's the familiar or the master who 'gets' share spells. It's listed under the familiar description, but I'm not sure if the master grants the ability to the familiar, or if the familiar gains the ability itself.

Normally in the *vast* majority of games, a familiar has no spellcasting ability whatsoever.

Thus, only the master is able to cast spells with a range of personal/you on the familiar, since the familiar can't cast.

*However* due to your ruling that companions are built just like a PC, including them getting classes, a familiar can gain the ability to cast spells.

So, this is 100% a question specific to your game, based on your rules. There is no RAW because by RAW, familiars can't cast spells. However, I see no reason why the familiar bond shouldn't allow the familiar to cast personal/you range spells on the master, assuming the familiar has levels in a spellcasting class.

Okay, so this is the question I thought it was: given that the familiar has a 'share spell' ability which would presume the existence of a familiar's familiar, which it doesn't have, can the master function in the place of the familiar's familiar.

I'm inclined to say yes; I assume there are similar abilities we need to think about where there is no eidolon's eidolon etc. I would like everyone dealing with this to write me a version of that ability (share spell in this case) that reflects that idea that the master/PC is functioning in lieu of the familiar's familiar.

Alright, so SADIE'S been tweaked, but the net result is now that she ultimately always has an initiative of exactly 66.

So, I replaced both the feats that granted WIS to Init, because a level in Sentinel already replaced Dex with Wis, and instead took Presence of Mind which gave Int to Init instead. As a Savant, SADIE has a...Pretty crazy intelligence score, so that's a +10.
Reason for Savant, instead of Monk Creature? Is for that sweet, sweet Uncanny Dodge, which netted Greater Improved Initiative, which treats any Initiative Roll for the determination of place during Initiative as a 20.

It seems to me there is still a difference between your characters and the rest here.

Tyren Lourofesh wrote:

Alright, so SADIE'S been tweaked, but the net result is now that she ultimately always has an initiative of exactly 66.

So, I replaced both the feats that granted WIS to Init, because a level in Sentinel already replaced Dex with Wis, and instead took Presence of Mind which gave Int to Init instead. As a Savant, SADIE has a...Pretty crazy intelligence score, so that's a +10.
Reason for Savant, instead of Monk Creature? Is for that sweet, sweet Uncanny Dodge, which netted Greater Improved Initiative, which treats any Initiative Roll for the determination of place during Initiative as a 20.

It seems to me there is still a difference between your characters and the rest here.

Seemingly you got to freely choose all kinds of templates, which we didn't. If at all, Sebecloki gave some out mainly, and not for optimization, but for rp reasons.
Also you really use a ton of 3PP stuff i never ever heard of^^

I chose Savant because it did make sense for an Old Era robot to have it, not despite that fact.

For the template, my init is +12. I'm thinking I didn't go exotic enough with my build to get crazy enough numbers like some have....

What I'm concerned about regarding some of these companions might outshine and overtake some of the PCs.

Hamza's familiar is an oracle/sorcerer, with psychic spellcasting(since that fits thematically). Not too OP, though he does have a 36 Cha. However, as a cat, and familiar, he won't be stealing the spotlight during negotiations.

Companions really shouldn't have stats that truly outclass the PCs. I've boosted Hamza's initiative pretty high, at a +22. And he has a mythic ability that lets him pull off Greater Improved Initiative, which is a non mythic feat. Seems a little too much nonsense imo.

Hamza's familiar will have some cool class features and spells, plus a lot of knowledges, but that's about it. He's mostly about supplementing him with some buffs and using illusions, enchantments and divinations.

And honestly, I may forget about him, as I often do with companions, lol.

Forgot to specify that in Jin's buff period, they would've reapplied Arcanotoxin to their spear and fists, putting her at 7/12 daily uses of Arcanotoxin. (I misremembered that they worked like ordinary poisons, staying on until used, but Arcanotoxins are unstable enough to last only a minute.)

On a related note: everyone whose weapon Jin poisoned in the last encounter still has a weapon with DC 22 Drow/Elf Poison on it, poison that works just as well on Constructs as it does on plants.

What I'm concerned about regarding some of these companions might outshine and overtake some of the PCs.

Does Gu look over the top?

What I'm concerned about regarding some of these companions might outshine and overtake some of the PCs.

Hamza's familiar is an oracle/sorcerer, with psychic spellcasting(since that fits thematically). Not too OP, though he does have a 36 Cha. However, as a cat, and familiar, he won't be stealing the spotlight during negotiations.

Companions really shouldn't have stats that truly outclass the PCs. I've boosted Hamza's initiative pretty high, at a +22. And he has a mythic ability that lets him pull off Greater Improved Initiative, which is a non mythic feat. Seems a little too much nonsense imo.

Hamza's familiar will have some cool class features and spells, plus a lot of knowledges, but that's about it. He's mostly about supplementing him with some buffs and using illusions, enchantments and divinations.

And honestly, I may forget about him, as I often do with companions, lol.

Actually, Hamza, by the sound of it, your familiar does actually out-class other characters--My character, actually. Your cat has more Charisma than my character has intelligence, which is his highest stat.

But points aside, yes, my pet has a high initiative. I'm quite curious as to how you see your character being invalidated because of that. Was there something your character was going to do that required nobody else going before him?

Actually, Hamza, by the sound of it, your familiar does actually out-class other characters--My character, actually. Your cat has more Charisma than my character has intelligence, which is his highest stat.

But points aside, yes, my pet has a high initiative. I'm quite curious as to how you see your character being invalidated because of that. Was there something your character was going to do that required nobody else going before him?

I mean, Hamza's Dex(his highest stat) is a 30, but he also needs a high Wis and Int(for his maneuvers) so he's kinda MAD.

However, while the familiar has a 36 in Cha, most of his spells will be buffs, and other spells that don't rely on saving throws. So, a jacked up Cha won't really come into play.

Also, you apparently have several other companions. Almost like you're a one man army who could probably do fine on his own, without the rest of the PCs. One pet wouldn't be so bad, but it seems like you have 3 or 4.

That is what I'm worried about. I worry that all our companions might render other PCs useless or unimportant.

Okay, fair enough. You don't want anyone to be rendered unimportant. Right now, I'd say the better approach to making sure that doesn't happen isn't to focus on the pets, because right now they're not the root of the problem.

Right now, I think the best approach would be to see what collective resources our PCs, in particular, have, and then determine what synergies we have with one-another, and which PCs we're currently not taking into consideration.

That's what I meant when I said we should have a talk about party roles and where everybody sees themselves.
We don't need PCs who can do everything and no companions who can then do the rest when another PC can and should do that.

Also I think it would be good to move more discussions to the discussion thread. Like any ooc only post perhaps ;)

the Droid is standing on top of glowing precipice

Can you please clarify that?

It's a big rock sticking out of the sides of the gave that glows. Its just giving off light, it doesn't cause damage.

This might be a good place to look to discuss roles everyone wants to focus on -- https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/A_Player%27s_Guide_to_Roles_in_the_Party_(3.5 e_Optimized_Character_Build)

This is another good list:

Mysterious Stranger Nov 21, 2012, 12:54 am | Flag | List | FAQ | Reply
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My approach to party roles is not based on what needs to be done rather than having a particular class or type of class. Bellow is what I consider the roles that need to be covered and what you need to do to cover the role. Many if not all characters will be able to cover more than one role. The roles are not in the order of importance as you will probably need someone to cover all the roles. Healing is one of the most misunderstood roles. Most people only worry about hp damage, but that is the easiest thing to deal with.

Healer
• HP loss
• Ability Damage
• Fatigue
• Exhaustion
• Negative Levels
• Ability Drain
• Blindness
• Deafness
• Disease
• Curse
• Poison
• Death

Ranged Combat
• Handle CR appropriate threats at ranges greater than 30 feet, or against flying or otherwise inaccessible opponents.

Close Combat
• Handle CR appropriate threats ranging from adjacent square to 30 feet.

Area Damage
• Deal damage over an area (Mainly for Swarms)

Traps
• Locate and neutralize both mechanical and Magical Traps

Intelligence
• Locate and gather information about opponents
• Detect Magic
• Identify Items especially magic items
• Navigation both above and below ground

Defensive Magic
• Provide protection vs. elemental damage
• Provide protection from mental control
• Remove hostile magic
• Counteract opponents magic

Battle Field Control
• Hinder or disable opponents
• Restrict or control opponents and opponents movement
• Provide Support for your teammates.

Movement
• Pursue and avoid enemies
• Overcome obstacles
• Maneuver on and under water

Social
• Interact with NPC
• Gather Information

I think I'm done with my rebuild (I might tweak format for legibility, but done)

Jimbli was raised by non-cannibalistic parents who followed the teachings and credos of a self-proclaimed descendant of the fey. His ultimate goal is to travel to and recover something this fey halfling spoke of within the void... but that is something he will not attempt until he is ready (beyond this campaign).

For now, he is wholly indebted and supportive of Rokan (the only one remaining of those who freed him).

He is a psychoporter who can blink at will up to 80 feet as a move action (and can break that into two jumps to go around corners or whatever)

His combat style focuses on sneak attacks via charging attacks, sharing space with large creatures, and very high bonus feinting maneuvers. With his ranged attacks, he is able to be effective with battlefield control: combat maneuvers, denying attacks, and pinning down foes.

Defensively, he excels in avoidance (for example... teleporting away or boosting AC to 45 - either as an immediate action)

In addition to the rogue/psion/elocater classes, he has 7 levels of War Soul class features. His mind blade is focused through a crystal hilt which has been imbued with soul power from a defeated Celabadon.

Does the rain reveal its location? Only Amunet-Ra spotted it.

Does the rain reveal its location? Only Amunet-Ra spotted it.

OOoh, this is actually a good question, as it will alter my turn slightly.

So, I know I've mentioned it before, but I'll try and break it down from a more practical standpoint, so that it's a little easier to pick and choose what works for...Well, you.

Bardic music: Tyren's bread and butter.
- Purpose: Battlefield control
- Strength: Tyren can provide a +8 bonus to the entire group. It goes to damage, attack, and all saves.
- Strength: Tyren can, for one person whom he's especially invested in seeing succeed(Rokan stands out, due to his status as a Monk--A typically very proficient character in CMB maneuvers and multiple attack chains), boost the strength of a party member by +16, again to damage, attack, and all saves. According to the feat, this doesn't preclude everyone else getting their bonuses.
- Strength: Tyren can debuff the enemy, forcing them to take a -5 to reflexes, lose their shield bonus, and take a -2 to AC. He can pick 1/3rd his level in opponents, if I recall correctly. The feat's Silly Dance Song, I'll fact-check it before I use it, but I'd understand if you did, too.
- Strength: Tyren can provide 10ft. of fog as total concealment. Keep in mind that this fog doesn't choose between friend or foe. If someone has the Friendly Aegis from Spheres of Power, please speak up.
- Strength: Tyren's Inspire Courage lasts for 6 rounds, and the bonuses last for 8. Everything else lasts for 6 rounds.
- Weakness: Tyren's Bardic Performances deal scaling damage. Words of Creation specify that it deals 1d6 per skill level you'd have to have to use the performance. That's not how Bards work anymore, so I just have it deal 1d6*level received at, since if you assumed a max perform skill, it'd be equal to your level. To this end, if anyone can grant Fast Healing for extended amounts of time, or has ample free healing to provide, please speak up.
- Weakness: Tyren's inspire courage must be perceived. That means if I get hit by silence, we're all +8 down the hole. If you've got counterspell capabilities or silence immunity capabilities, please speak up.
- Weakness: Tyren's best capabilities require an extra set of hands. That's what the backpack is for, but that can't be replaced if it's lost. If anyone has the capability to grant extra arms, or telekinetic abilities, or even the ability to stow objects as a free action, please speak up.

Poison: Tyren's other Bard skill.
- Strength: Wide range of debuffs. I planned on a lot of enemies being immune to certain statuses, so I have a little something for everyone. Among them are exhausted, nauseated, blind, asphyxiation, stunned, paralyzed, sleeping, and unable to speak languages.
- Strength: I have a reliable source of poison no matter where I'm at. My ammunition never runs out, and I can summon up the raw reagents for the poisons themselves using Retroactive Preparation.
- Strength: Constructs and some forms of outsiders are thus far the only things immune to my poisons.
- Weakness: While it's a free action to apply my poisons, they're typically made of very expensive ingredients. I can stock poisons for y'all, but it'd actually be better to let Jin make them, or at least apply them, as Jin's the specialist in poison economy.
- Weakness: All poisons are, inherently, reliant on status effects. That means that, no matter how many poison immunities I bypass, there are going to be enemies that are outright immune to some, or even all, of my poisons. If you can lower immunities, by changing an opponent's type or through a special ability, let me know.
- Weakness: Barely a weakness, at a 32 DC, but my poisons are save-able. It takes multiple doses to make sure that an enemy is subdued. Ideally, I'd like it if we could debuff the opponent's Fortitude before I hit them with the poison.

Spellcasting: Not Tyren's Strong Suit.
- Options: Tyren can make extradimensional spaces that put whatever's inserted into them in stasis. What this means, is whatever items you have that have a timer, he can preserve until you need it. Just make sure it's something you can wait a minute for, because he has to take a minute to open it, and a minute to close it.
- Options: Tyren can draw himself into a dreamspace any time he sleeps. When he does so, he can take up to a heavy load with him. They also enter into a stasis whenever he leaves the Dreamspace, so we can use it as another extradimensional storage area. Further, this is his dedicated crafting space. If you have the ability to traverse dreams, you could very much likely get a lot done here!
- Options: Tyren can use charm person. He can also basically use Charm Undead! And, using Bardic Fascinate, he can use Suggestion on Constructs(and ONLY constructs!)
DCs for those are 21, 23, and 23 respectively. Something to note: When he charms undead, they're going to start looking...Strange. That's how you know it's Tyren doing it.
- Options: He has grease and nerveskitter. 'Nuff said.
- Options: He can give you a +3 to initiative and make you basically immune to surprise for an hour at a time. Right now he can only do so for one person at a time.
- Options: Faerie Fire, Glitter Dust. 'Nuff said.
- Options: He can animate the dead. He can actually animate intelligent undead by summoning the spirit of a person and combining it with his animation. They are, however, independent--As they should be.
- Strength: Tyren can retarget his spells targeted at a certain type to be targeted at outsiders.
- Strength: Tyren can turn any purely detrimental spell into a permanent curse, dispellable like any other curse, 1/day.
- Weakness: These are his only spells.

Firearms: Tyren's damage source of choice.
- Strength: The sheer barrage. As a standard action, Tyren can put 16 shots into the air. Rapid shot plus mythic rapid shot is 3, and dual dual wielding is an extra 1, from a double-barreled pistol to double that to 8, and finally HOP mythic rapid shot is 16.
- Strength: Touch attacks out to 60 ft.
- Strength: Pretty accurate! He has something like a +30, with bardic music and Knowledge Devotion taken into account, and a +17 if he isn't able to utilize any of those skills.
- Weakness: +11 damage seems like a lot, right? Average of 15? DR can bring that down by a lot. Potentially 0, against a tough enough foe. Tyren has no answer to this problem.
- Weakness: Remember that accuracy? That's...Kind of not accurate. All 16 shots would actually be at +22 at best, +9 at worst.

Mobility: Tyren's got three flavors of this.
- Option: Flight, 45 ft.
- Option: Teleportation, move action, once per 1d6 rounds, 60 ft.
- Option: Just hoofin' it, 30ft.
- "Option": Tyren technically has the Warp Sphere, but it's guaranteed to eat a spell point, and it's not really that great. Standard action, if I recall.

Defense: Tyren's got okay saves. And by that I mean based off the standards I know to expect from Sable. Anything too far below 20 is likely to be dicey. His AC is at 36--Which is to say, if Tyren was fighting Tyren, he'd be basically guaranteed to kill Tyren. Tyren very much relies upon the party to lock down the opponent and prevent them from overrunning him. He does have a temporary FoM effect, he has SR from blurred soul, and he has the ability to temporarily subvery mental conditions.

Major weakness: If you're going to touch Tyren with a positive effect, you'll need to succeed a melee touch attack unless I use a move action to prepare beforehand. That's if he doesn't have three control marks from the ghost. If that's the case, he's going to need to fail a roll to resist.

And there it is. The good, the bad, the ugly. I'm probably overlooking a lot--It's a lot of stuff--But that's just about anything I think y'all could use.

Amunet-Ra is a uc monk/uc rogue:
-highish AC (39) and CMD
-high to hit and damage with flurry of blows, improved unarmed strike, spear or sword.
-high ranged combat with 5-6 shuriken (who do nearly the same damage as her melee and kinda unlimited range)
-has means to overcome DR ranged and in melee
-possible 3d6 sneak attack, uc debuff from sneak attack
-really good with trip maneuvers - greater trip, ki throw and vicious stomp.
-panther style to provoke AoOs and hit back before.

The idea there is to move over the battlefield, provoke and AoO, hit them and apply -2 debuff, but trip them, then get 2 AoOs on them and possibly move them around.
All other maneuvers are quite good as well, especially bull rush and grapple.

Also stunning fist, dehydrating strike, scorpion style, gorgon's fist, etc.

Out of combat
-Social skills and Perception are really high, as well as good knowledge skills
-can find and disarm all sorts of traps
-high stealth with high mobility (90 feet) and invisibility
-can jump, stand on everything literally, climb speed
-very good single person healing abilities ~10/day, also applicable in combat

Has a good bite attack as well now, which does poison damage and more...like sucking out the life of you.

Doesn't like sunlight that much anymore, somehow, and has a thing with blood.

So the combat role is definately close combat and physical battlefield control, as well as ranged combat.
Then traps, social, movement and some intelligence.

Just an FYI, I'm waiting until Seb lets us know if the rain revealed the droid or not, as that will alter my actions slightly. Well, technically my familiar's actions, but it's important enough that I need an answer before I post.

Link to rules for rain

Drizzle: Drizzle reduces visibility to three-quarters of the normal range, imposing a –2 penalty on Perception checks. It automatically extinguishes tiny unprotected flames (candles and the like, but not torches).

Rain: Rain reduces visibility ranges by half, resulting in a –4 penalty on Perception checks. Rain automatically extinguishes unprotected flames (candles, torches, and the like) and imposes a –4 penalty on ranged attacks.

Invisibility grants a 50% miss chance unless there's some other way than sight to find the target like blindsense.
Cloaking device should probably grant the same.

This post covers the rain rules. It seems like the RAW make it even harder to see in the rain, even a drizzle. so that would cancel any effect it might have to reveal the creature's shape. Unless someone want's to point something out, I'm inclined to say that not only is the droid not revealed, but it's even harder to see now with the rain.

EDIT: I tried to look up some rules on this -- it seems like there are rules for if the entity is moving or swimming in water, like tracks would be easier to see, but nothing about just standing in a drizzle. The cloaking device assumes the color of the environment like camouflage gear or chameleon skin, and works as per greater invisibility, so its not dispelled by contact with rain or movement.

I'm discussing this on the PFSRD group on FB and also talking to my bro about it. He brought up an important question: How big is the droid?

gargantuan

What I am actually missing at the moment, why did we roll initiative?
I spotted the Droid, but did we decide to attack our is the Droid attacking?
There is no surprise round yes, but it's it just like in a computer habe atm? We Sense something invisible is attacking us?

i assumed everyone is getting ready to fight. It's going to attack now that it's spotted,in any event.

Regarding invisibility, this line is the important one:

Of course, the subject is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the recipient detectable (such as swimming in water or stepping in a puddle).

There's several rules at play here. Cae used Control Weather to summon a light rain. As there's no *actual* light rain, this is what we would use(unless Cae says otherwise): Light precipitation is the lowest level of intensity and generally consists of fog, a faint drizzle of rain or a few isolated flakes of snow.

Going with a faint drizzle the rules are: Drizzle reduces visibility to three-quarters of the normal range, imposing a –2 penalty on Perception checks. It automatically extinguishes tiny unprotected flames (candles and the like, but not torches).

However as said above, certain conditions can cause an invisible subject to be detectable.

Such as a **massive** 'empty' space where no rain is falling.

From my conversation on PFSRD this seems to be the most logical:

75% range on visibility, -2 on Perception checks - BUT - +15 Circumstance bonus to see the wet outline of that supposedly inviso-bad-guy. That cuts the Invisibility penalty to -5 for checks.

Since I've already got all my cooking supplies laid out, my first planned action in the combat, once I manage to close, is to hit the thing with a bag of flour.

Flour Pouch: This deceptively simple burlap satchel of flour is tied loosely on purpose. While it could be used to bake a loaf of bread on a particularly long expedition, its true purpose is to locate invisible opponents. You can attempt to strike an invisible opponent with a flour pouch as a touch attack. You still must pinpoint the target or choose a space to attack into, and the normal miss chance for total concealment applies. If you hit the target, the pouch bursts open, spilling white flour over a portion of the invisible creature. You can also throw a flour pouch as a splash weapon; any invisible creature standing in the space struck is covered in flour, as are all other creatures within 5 feet.

Coating an invisible creature in flour lets you keep track of its position and reduces the miss chance to 20% (instead of the normal 50% for total concealment). While an invisible creature is coated in flour, its bonus on Hide checks is reduced to +10 if the creature is moving, or to +20 if it is not moving (PH 76). If the creature moves through water, is subjected to a gust of wind, or spends a full-round action brushing the flour off, all the flour is removed from its body.

A gentle rain will probably wash it off in a few rounds, but that should be enough to do some good work, and it'll pre-empt most of the argument about what the rain does.

I mean--Faerie Fire is a 5 foot burst, and I have it as an SLA. As long as I can get a general gist for where the rain suddenly starts changing directions and looks all weird and bendy, invisibility's not much of an issue, if y'all wanna delay 'till after my turn.

Regarding invisibility, this line is the important one:

Of course, the subject is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the recipient detectable (such as swimming in water or stepping in a puddle).

There's several rules at play here. Cae used Control Weather to summon a light rain. As there's no *actual* light rain, this is what we would use(unless Cae says otherwise): Light precipitation is the lowest level of intensity and generally consists of fog, a faint drizzle of rain or a few isolated flakes of snow.

Going with a faint drizzle the rules are: Drizzle reduces visibility to three-quarters of the normal range, imposing a –2 penalty on Perception checks. It automatically extinguishes tiny unprotected flames (candles and the like, but not torches).

However as said above, certain conditions can cause an invisible subject to be detectable.

Such as a **massive** 'empty' space where no rain is falling.

From my conversation on PFSRD this seems to be the most logical:

75% range on visibility, -2 on Perception checks - BUT - +15 Circumstance bonus to see the wet outline of that supposedly inviso-bad-guy. That cuts the Invisibility penalty to -5 for checks.

I'm okay with that solution.

Since I've already got all my cooking supplies laid out, my first planned action in the combat, once I manage to close, is to hit the thing with a bag of flour.

Dungeonscape p. 32 wrote:

Flour Pouch: This deceptively simple burlap satchel of flour is tied loosely on purpose. While it could be used to bake a loaf of bread on a particularly long expedition, its true purpose is to locate invisible opponents. You can attempt to strike an invisible opponent with a flour pouch as a touch attack. You still must pinpoint the target or choose a space to attack into, and the normal miss chance for total concealment applies. If you hit the target, the pouch bursts open, spilling white flour over a portion of the invisible creature. You can also throw a flour pouch as a splash weapon; any invisible creature standing in the space struck is covered in flour, as are all other creatures within 5 feet.

Coating an invisible creature in flour lets you keep track of its position and reduces the miss chance to 20% (instead of the normal 50% for total concealment). While an invisible creature is coated in flour, its bonus on Hide checks is reduced to +10 if the creature is moving, or to +20 if it is not moving (PH 76). If the creature moves through water, is subjected to a gust of wind, or spends a full-round action brushing the flour off, all the flour is removed from its body.

A gentle rain will probably wash it off in a few rounds, but that should be enough to do some good work, and it'll pre-empt most of the argument about what the rain does.

Fine, you can do that on your turn.

Okay, if you've got Faerie Fire, let her rip. You act before Jin does anyway.

I mean--Faerie Fire is a 5 foot burst, and I have it as an SLA. As long as I can get a general gist for where the rain suddenly starts changing directions and looks all weird and bendy, invisibility's not much of an issue, if y'all wanna delay 'till after my turn.

You'll still have to make a Perception check to target I think.

To a degree. I'd probably have the highest margin of success if Amunet-Ra were to point out where she saw it, but that does also run the risk of subjecting her to the miss-chance, should she want to attack.

I've got us all covered. I'm about to eat dinner shortly, then I'll work on getting up my post. There's a lot of things going on, so it's going to take some time. Definitely writing it up on google docs, so I don't lose it, LOL

All right, the sheet in my profile link has been edited with the final versions of Gu and Jin's revised sheets.

CHANGELOG
-Added an Initiative score to Gu. (I misunderstood what you meant by 'block init': previous GM did a version of that where initiative was simply unrolled.)
-Added the Stone of Alliance to Gu
-Fixed Jin's initiative to include the Amazing Initiative boost from her mythic tier
-Spell-Like Ability was not properly marked as Horrifically Overpowered on Jin's sheet, making her 1 over the limit for HO feats: also, I lacked the Improved Initiative pre-req for another of my Horrifically Overpowered feats, Super Speed. Fixed both problems by swapping out Spell-Like Ability for Improved Initiative.
-Added a bunch of mundane equipment to Jin.
-Changed Jin's default extract loadout to include two Ant Hauls daily rather than one to carry around all her stuff.

Alright, between Hamza and Cae, I think we can conclude without a doubt that this big guy is visible! Amunet, you have the higher initiative and Dexterity(I think), I believe that means it's your move.

I've got us all covered. I'm about to eat dinner shortly, then I'll work on getting up my post. There's a lot of things going on, so it's going to take some time. Definitely writing it up on google docs, so I don't lose it, LOL

Is Hamza still incorporeal during this attack?