Mounted movement uses much the same jog/hustle ideas. Applying maneuverability to mounted combat would by necessity mean applying it to ALL ground movement...
I guess I could see where it might, though I still think you could run mounted combat with flying rules without having to make dismounted combat do the same. It'd be house-rules territory either way.
It's funny, because I have heard stories on the forums here about this encounter being a character-killer.
Not sure why that would be, according to what you say, unless people were all making high CHA weak combat characters (anticipating gunning for the ruler position perhaps), or GMs were being cruel.
Kingmaker seems to swing wildly in difficulty based upon group composition (25pt buy/6 PCs in an AP assuming 15pt buy/4 PCs is in our favor) and 'the luck of the dice.'
It's funny, because I have heard stories on the forums here about this encounter being a character-killer.
Not sure why that would be, according to what you say, unless people were all making high CHA weak combat characters (anticipating gunning for the ruler position perhaps), or GMs were being cruel.
The bandits have longbows and longswords. A lucky crit will annihilate a first level character in one hit, and most characters simply won't survive two normal hits. The guidelines for running the bandits, though, tell you to run them with terrible tactics. Waste rounds moving instead of attacking, provoking attacks of opportunity, etc. And that's if you actually get into combat with them. Even without judicious use of Color Spray (like we used), you can kill them all before they even know you're there...
Kingmaker seems to swing wildly in difficulty based upon group composition (25pt buy/6 PCs in an AP assuming 15pt buy/4 PCs is in our favor) and 'the luck of the dice.'
Also this. Well, sort of. The 25 pt buy thing is in your favor, but the encounters you meet with in my game have been modified to more appropriately challenge a 6-person party.
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Kingmaker seems to swing wildly in difficulty based upon group composition (25pt buy/6 PCs in an AP assuming 15pt buy/4 PCs is in our favor) and 'the luck of the dice.'
Well, I assume that we are using the conversion for 6 players here. It is here on the forums somewhere.
As to the point buy, I had kind of figured that PMGM was planning on ramping up the difficulty a bit because we have such good points. It seems like you can really do a lot with 25 points. A SAD character with a favourable racial bonus should be able to afford a 20 in their prime stat if they want (or two 18's like you have), while a MAD character should still be able have several decent scores.
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The bandits have longbows and longswords. A lucky crit will annihilate a first level character in one hit, and most characters simply won't survive two normal hits.
Longbows crit x 3 so I guess I can see it. But even a squishy guy like Numalar takes 19 damage to insta-kill. A character with a d8 HD will be more like 21-24 damage and a fighter type ought to be around 24-29.
As long as someone is left who can stabilize people then overall I still have a hard time picturing it.
Also this. Well, sort of. The 25 pt buy thing is in your favor, but the encounters you meet with in my game have been modified to more appropriately challenge a 6-person party.
I'm assuming you're using the 6-player conversion stickied on the Kingmaker subforum here on the Paizo boards?
...(or two 18's like you have)...
Incidentally, having a stat below 10 really kills me. Even if it was the only way to have a 17+ in the two stats Ansha is built around.
Also this. Well, sort of. The 25 pt buy thing is in your favor, but the encounters you meet with in my game have been modified to more appropriately challenge a 6-person party.I'm assuming you're using the 6-player conversion stickied on the Kingmaker subforum here on the Paizo boards?
Assume what you want. Though if OOC knowledge starts to be displayed IC, the Baleful Anomaly Negation Hammer will be deployed...
I was more asking because I've gamed with Alex Kilcoyne, who wrote several parts of that conversion, on these forums. He's a great DM (and the fact that work is overwhelming his life right now is why I applied to this PbP to begin with ;P).
As for OOC knowledge...I've played parts 1-3 before (part 1 a good three times and counting), own the entire AP and have been re-reading it in anticipation of GMing a game of my own later. Don't worry, it won't bleed IC.
While I'm confessing things, I also often read spoilers regardless of who they're intended for (including "DM Only" tags). Still don't let it bleed IC, though. ;)
Now that's just not fair! Grease AND Color Spray in one encounter. One that was meant to be steamrolled anyways...
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Assume what you want. Though if OOC knowledge starts to be displayed IC, the Baleful Anomaly Negation Hammer will be deployed...
I invent the Internal Combustion Engine! :)
Seriously, I haven't played KM before, but I did pick up the modules and had considered actually running them, and have flipped through the first few. I was hoping to play them first though, so here we are.
I've been playing RPGs for 30+ years though so I have no problem keeping OOC and IC separate.
Now that's just not fair! Grease AND Color Spray in one encounter. One that was meant to be steamrolled anyways...
And an hour later, after our spells are used up, the REAL bandits show up! :P
I kind of avoid color spray on a sorcerer because it just seems too good to be able to throw five of those in a day.
Honestly, the only reason I have started preparing Color Spray instead of Sleep is because I get tired of my enemies waking one another up after one guy makes his save.
Haha, that and Color Spray is a Standard to cast, while Sleep is full round. Goes off on your next turn, and meanwhile they've had a chance to beat the crap out of you.
I'm not accusing anyone of metagaming, by the way. I've been playing and running games since the 3.0 launch. I trust all of my players...but I still feel the need to have a backup plan, just in case.
-Posted with Wayfinder
Haha, that and Color Spray is a Standard to cast, while Sleep is full round. Goes off on your next turn, and meanwhile they've had a chance to beat the crap out of you.
Also that. But I'd probably suffer that for the increased range and area of effect, if not for the fact that enemies can be awakened by a standard action.
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Sleep has a very good range though, and also a larger area of effect. You have a decent chance of sneaking up on someone and using it on them before they spot you.
I personally don't mind that the enemy can wake up people who are affected, because the guy who made the save has wasted his action.
In the middle of combat though color spray is definitely the winner. It also doesn't just stop working at a given hit dice.
Aaaand there we go. I officially own the game, now. Yay.
You'll notice I changed the name. Different GM's running the game, no sense in having the tables named the same anymore.
Need to take a shower. After that, I'll throw up a game post.
Fantastic!
So....uh....
Looking over the chosen characters again....do we seriously NOT have a dedicated ranged combatant? Cal's got a crossbow, but everyone seems pretty melee, except the two casters...
...Apparently not. Ansha's more or less useless with a bow thanks to her Strength score, even if she weren't more useful casting spells.
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I was just thinking that myself.
Linora can use a longbow and her DEX and BAB are good. Karsh could use the composite bow, but he has a crossbow which is the favoured weapon of his deity, so he may not wish to switch (though the longbow is hands-down better unless Karsh invested feats into crossbow).
Ansha could take one, but she would be better off with a crossbow due to her STR.
Actually come to think of it, if Karsh took the composite bow he could trade off his crossbow to Ansha, just to make sure she has something she can do at long range.
I already have a light crossbow and am a half-decent shot. Cal has a crossbow also. Avery definitely needs a ranged weapon but can't use bows. Since she gets a STR bonus I was thinking a sling or some javelins.
Grabbing a sling at some point would be fine.
if allowed, I wouldn't have a problem with rebuilding Karsh up as a ranged combatant. We do have quite a lot of melee and Warpriest can do the whole ranged thing. It wouldn't be too hard, just shifting some points and changing my feats. Of course, Cal and Linora could probably do the whole range thing just as well. Just don't know if it interests them.
Just a thought. Don't think it would change much right now.
So....uh....
Looking over the chosen characters again....do we seriously NOT have a dedicated ranged combatant? Cal's got a crossbow, but everyone seems pretty melee, except the two casters...
Yeah, I noticed that myself. Question: Bards are proficient with Shortbows... does that include composite shortbows? I was never clear on that.
if allowed, I wouldn't have a problem with rebuilding Karsh up as a ranged combatant.
I think we need Karsh more as front line warrior. The other possibility though is to rebuild Cal as a switch hitter Ranger... another skill based class. We'd loose some arcane ability, but pickup range without loss of much (or any) skills. Just another thought. We're still early in the game, adjusting these things now wouldn't be too much of an issue I don't think.
Bards are proficient with Shortbows... does that include composite shortbows?
Yes it does.
For purposes of Weapon Proficiency, Weapon Focus, and similar feats, a composite shortbow is treated as if it were a shortbow.
Thanks!
I already have a short bow, so I can bring that out when the situation calls for it. I'm mostly a swordsman, though.
The other possibility though is to rebuild Cal as a switch hitter Ranger... another skill based class. We'd loose some arcane ability, but pickup range without loss of much (or any) skills. Just another thought. We're still early in the game, adjusting these things now wouldn't be too much of an issue I don't think.
Are you really so unhappy with your character? This is the second time you've thrown yourself up to switch out your character for another one...
These men are expected back at their camp by nightfall.
Um, what? When was that EVER stated?
I think that was an IC assumption by Numalar. He could be wrong.
If Karsh is the only one who could really make use of the longbow, he'll take it as his ranged option. Otherwise, I don't think there is anything else that he is interested in.
Are you really so unhappy with your character? This is the second time you've thrown yourself up to switch out your character for another one...
No no, I'm not unhappy... just I'm not attached to class one way or another. Just stating that I'm happy to play whatever the party needs, and whether Cal is a Ranger or Bard, he'd still be fun to play.
I'm flexible is all I'm saying.
I'll definitely take a normal longbow!
Hmm I thought Cal was saying to keep them at Oleg's, just without a hand and chained up. Karsh was agreeing to that but was mum on the "send to Restov" thing. I had figured we were talking about how to keep them at Oleg's while guaranteeing that they wouldn't cause any trouble.
That's fine though. We can let what we said stand.
Ansha's not there to chime in, but the key word in the charter isn't "always," it's "unrepentant." She also isn't there to point out that the Levetons are expecting guards to show up soon--hence why they were dismayed when they realized we weren't the guards. Watching them won't be an issue.
My bad.
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Yeah, my thoughts were like Avery's at first, until I caught that qualifying word. At first I wondered why anyone would surrender when faced with certain execution.
I'm not sure that there are guards coming though. Maybe we are who was sent, and no-one else is coming?
As for my assumption that they would be expected back tonight, that was based on what Svetlana said, that she thinks their camp was a day away. But I brought it up in my most recent "questioning" of the prisoners.
I am quite happy with Karsh the way he is. Likewise with Cal. If we are facing enemies with a fair distance between us and them I think our volley of ranged attacks will be decent though not awesome. The ranged combat feats at low level are mostly for shooting arrows into a melee, but once we are in melee range I think we can handle things.
Consider:
Avery, Sling +1 / 1d4+1 range 50
Cal, lt. Crossbow, +3 / 1d8 range 80
Karsh, Composite Longbow, +2 / 1d8+1 range 110
Ansha, lt. Crossbow +1 / 1d8 range 80
Linora, longbow +5 / 1d8 range 100
Numalar, lt. small crossbow, +3 / 1d6 range 80
(or produce flame +3 touch / 1d6+3 range 120, two shots only)
It's not great but I don't think it's that bad. Against guys like these bandits a volley would probably score maybe two or three hits (bardic performance and bless do apply too). I'm fine with that.
That's an awful lot of metagaming.
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I wouldn't call it metagaming to do a quick survey of our party's ranged weapons and abilities. Most of us have ranged weapons and those that don't can easily get them. We also have a good supply of arrows thanks to the bandits.
I'm just pointing out that while we don't have an archery specialist of any sort, I'm not sure we necessarily need one.
If Karsh is taking the composite longbow, Ansha could then use his light crossbow. And we can probably get a sling from Oleg.
In an MMO, it'd be called "theorycrafting." Either way, someone could always suggest it IC.
It's not metagaming. Not until that conversation happens in character.
I'm home. Need a shower and then I'll start posting.
-Posted with Wayfinder
To be fair though, I wouldn't really call this "not resisting arrest". We basically burst in, Mind controlled one of them, and knocked the rest unconscious. After they were unconcious, we bound them and removed any real way to resist.
To me, it's sort of like gasing a bank that is getting robbed(i know, sorta weird and unlikely but lets just roll with it) by armed men, just as they pulled out the guns. Yes, they didn't "resist arrest" but they didn't really have the chance to. For all we know, they would have shot up the place, stolen the money, and killed the hostages.
Also, they didn't just perpetrate robbery, and this is metagaming a bit probably, but I imagine that one could put murder and a few other things on their heads as well.
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To be fair though, I wouldn't really call this "not resisting arrest". We basically burst in, Mind controlled one of them, and knocked the rest unconscious.
Well, two of them were knocked unconscious. We called on the other two to surrender, and they did. I would have been totally fine with killing those two at the time, rather than offering quarter; we still would have had three prisoners. But it doesn't seem like a particularly lawful thing to do to get somebody to surrender just so you can kill them when they are unarmed. I recognize that not everyone is lawful here, but I am.
Yes, they didn't "resist arrest" but they didn't really have the chance to.
Well, had I been one of the two guys left standing, I probably would have tried to make a run for it somehow. My chance of surviving this would be low, but better than 0%. If I knew that arrest meant hanging, then I would have little to lose.
For all we know, they would have shot up the place, stolen the money, and killed the hostages.
We are not punishing them for what they might have done.
I imagine that one could put murder and a few other things on their heads as well.
Sure, but we really have no way of finding that out unless someone confesses.
I don't want to hold up the game here, so if there's a consensus I will go along with it.
Karsh, maybe you could post your thoughts IC in the game thread?
There's a pretty massive difference between Robin Hood bandits in the wood who disarm and knock unconscious their opponents, take their money but leave their victims alive, and ISIS bandits who drag people out of their homes for sadistic beheadings. We really need to know where on the spectrum these guys lie. If they're on the softer end of the scale then Avery could definitely be persuaded to temper her own approach, but on the other hand, if they have a really monstrous history, it'll be tough to convince her to let them live. We really need more info.
I have a feeling that these bandits are somewhere in the middle. Give Ansha a chance and she'll find out--beguiling touch has its uses. ;)
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I see there was a bit of activity while I was composing my last post.
I do have confidence in Ansha's ability to get things out of people. She seems to be doing wonderfully so far.
What the bandits are doing seems more like a protection racket to me. They could have killed Oleg and Svetlana three times now, but they only took the trade goods they have, and surely Oleg and Svetlana (do we know their last names?) have other valuables that the bandits could have taken.
I am not saying that they are nice guys. There's certainly no comparison to Robin Hood here, no matter how nasty a country Brevoy is. The fact that they threatened violence means we have to assume they were willing to do it.
Frankly, it seems most likely to me that they use the Stolen Lands as a base and occaisionally foray across the border into Brevoy (or maybe some of the River Kingdoms) and pillage things there. There just doesn't seem to be much out here worth stealing.
Going to apologize. I had a rough day, and just can not find it in my power to write out a post.
The one thing I will note, Numalar, is that the primary purpose of the chartered expedition is to properly chart and map the Greenbelt. You're not just traveling and exploring. You are an expeditionary force charged with creating an accurate map of the area. The secondary purpose of the charter is to reduce the rampant banditry in the area, since the area has become rather dangerous of late.
Anyways. I'll make a proper post tomorrow, once I've had some sleep.
After the majority of the bandits have walked into the courtyard, she rises to her feet and calls out to the leader, "You are surrounded! Surrender, friend, and we will spare your life and the lives of your comrades. This doesn't need to end bloodily! Set down your arms!"
I would expect that the lawful among us would want to keep promises made in their name. (Unless, of course, they felt Ansha had no right to speak for them...in which case they probably should have gone for a different plan than 'have the elf talk the bandits into surrender.')
For Ansha's part, she's more interested in using the captured bandits as pawns, where she can.
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Indeed; I would have been just as happy fighting them in the compound. I have seen this quandary come up in other games and it always bogs things down. :)
As Chaotic Neutral Ansha probably doesn't especially care if her promise is kept. Numalar though feels that even though it wasn't he that made the promise he is still bound by it. Though "Spare your Lives" can mean a variety of things.
As Chaotic Neutral Ansha probably doesn't especially care if her promise is kept.
You are correct, sir! As I wrote IC a page or so ago:
Ansha watches idly from the tables as the rest of the party terrorizes the poor, surrendered bandits whom she told would have their lives spared if they surrendered. Good thing she didn't care about keeping her word.
I have seen this quandary come up in other games and it always bogs things down. :)
It makes for good RP. No sense trying to rush through everything. ;)
What language did you use for this? It looks like Latin but only about half the words translate and they don't seem to resemble anything you said.
Gibberish. The second post's Draconic isn't, though.
Incidentally, I also use Quenya for Elven. ;)