Kingmaker: Stolen Lands of the Shining

Game Master BloodWolven

Looking at the Kingdom Spreadsheet.

It looks like we have Svettlana listed as a Viceroy. I assume that she is Viceroy so that she could represent us in Fort Promise. Judging from the role of Viceroy description. I just missed it in GamePlay.

I am sure Tristan moved her there for that reason even though it was not officially said. I would say that is fine. Would that mean Krazok is a Viceroy too?

Alright.

I updated some of the NPC information on the Wardens of the Stolenlands: Kingmaker of the Shining: NPCs and group notes sheet.

If anyone wants to add anything that would be great.

I linked the NPC names to their profiles for added info.

I also added info on past PCs.

I am sure Tristan moved her there for that reason even though it was not officially said. I would say that is fine. Would that mean Krazok is a Viceroy too?

That would make sense.

My assumption was that we haven't claimed that Hex that the Lizardfolk live on. So the In Character agreement with Krazok isn't something we could or needed to claim on the spreadsheet. Certainly Krazok's position would be Viceroy once the hex is claimed.

I suppose that IN character way to say that is that Krazok IS the Viceroy but we have yet to secure the country side between here and there hence it is an allied outlying location.

I need some clarification.

We have for more than a year in game time been operating a kingdom. We filled all the roles on paper that our kingdom needed. Including the "Royal Enforcer" which was for a time Akiros and now Larina.

Now recently we have been playing through council meetings which I actually kinda enjoy. But the questions of our "laws" feels like it was something that would have been a need from day one not more than a year into things.

I have no trouble revisiting things or talking about what might need more change. But literally it feels like we are the worst rulers of all time if that after more than of year of ruling we have never talked about crime and punishment. I mean. We have had an enforce. We have had guards. I was assuming that the ins and outs of the particulars of this were managed.

My approach to things has always been more about Fluff than Crunch. But it feels like the NEED never came up in the FLUFF and now we are addressing it like its a need. Which implies what I can't help but see as a wanton disregard if we have NO system.

I mean we have never RPed through having clean streets and a latrine. Does that mean we failed to do that too?

I disagree, we are still growing and busy. This is first time, we have been conducting bureaucracy and governing/ruling on this scale instead of putting down threats. And we still have a ways to go in both.

This is the first time we have RP'd the bureaucracy I assumed that things have been in operation this whole time. We had festivals without RPing through the catering.

Our discussion feels like nothing has been done so far.

We just put in more reves which implies there already were some in place.

We have guards in the city which implies they have had work to do in the months we have been operating.

We have an enforcer which implies that they are enforcing.
Just as we have a magister which when there was a problem with we fixed.
Just as when the issue with the treasurer came up we addressed.

If we are codifying things more clearly or want to build up some of the fluff that makes perfect sense.

Acting like we have absolutely no law and order. Doesn't seem reasonable.

Kevros is Quince's most trusted friend. I can't imagine Kevros after more than a year of apparently doing nothing about addressing a vital need in the kingdom. Kevros wouldn't bring it up before now.

Perhaps my perspective is wrong.

Are we making some tweeks?

or

Assuming up until now we have had absolutely nothing. I can't wrap my head around the idea that the characters we have played would never address what is a fundamental need for a kingdom.

1. This is the first time we have RP'd the bureaucracy I assumed that things have been in operation this whole time. We had festivals without RPing through the catering.

A: First time for everything and besides, it does break up the monotony be we should return to the field. There is a lot more to clean up and earn coin for the kingdom as a whole.

2. Our discussion feels like nothing has been done so far.

A: We are still new and things still need to be worked out.

3. We just put in more reves which implies there already were some in place.

A: Yeah, it was implied but I wanted to show that I was doing my job as Marshall and role play it out ... LOL

4. We have guards in the city which implies they have had work to do in the months we have been operating.

A: Tristan has role played this a little and has been tracking through the Kingmaker paper work.

5. We have an enforcer which implies that they are enforcing.

A: I see the Royal Enforcer being closet to the FBI or Secret Service than local law enforcement.

6. If we are codifying things more clearly or want to build up some of the fluff that makes perfect sense.

A: Fluff is good, don't you agree?

7. Acting like we have absolutely no law and order. Doesn't seem reasonable.

A: We know what the laws are but the common citizen does not.

8. Kevros is Quince's most trusted friend. I can't imagine Kevros after more than a year of apparently doing nothing about addressing a vital need in the kingdom. Kevros wouldn't bring it up before now.

A: Always a first and maybe my promotion to a manager in real life has gone to my head ... lol.

Besides, he has to pull his weight, correct? And this subject is within his title as Marshall, correct?

Plus, I need to get back into a rhythm of posting.

First let me say. Its good to have you posting. Glad you are still with us.

The gist of what you are saying. Makes it clear I misunderstood. This is a matter of degree in the establishment of a justice system not an issue of complete neglect of any justice system at all.

You believe as I do that we have taken steps in this matter before now. Kev has had reves doing their work has been acting as a Marshall which would mean that there has been law enforcement. You are just defining it more and that is cool. I don't want to squelch that.

I was worried that you felt like we were failures. My fear is that the interpretation was that we had done nothing. That felt like very bad leadership. And I don't think any of us have neglectful of our duties.

I don't think we are failures, Cleo just thinks we are naive ... lol. But if you don't attempt something, you never know if it will work or not. Currently, there is no perfect form of government. They all have their faults and corruption.

Naive does not equal failure!

Naivete does often lead to corruption if you don't know what to look out for, but that doesn't mean you're failures! I haven't seen anything yet that would make Cleo go "Oh nah mate this is a lost cause. I'mma get who I can out then bail."

No, you have been making rulings and thus laws as situations arise. Sulvanii and Bearik have been collecting the rulings and laws. These are not new.

Quince made lots of attempts to deal with Cleo. He would view it as a separate issue.

Quince sees growth, prosperity and stability. He's seen Kev, Tristan, Larina, Stalker all working in their positions.

The only complaints in character have been Rodrigo hired to undermine us and Cleo who disagrees with a legal judgment call in a moment of tension.

If Kev is worried about that Quince would have loved to hear it in the moment or when he visited Kev and Katrina.

Also there is something I do have a question about now that the laws are displayed. Has Liz been in jail for 30 days? Because by law it is mandatory 30 day and the repayment.

Also there is something I do have a question about now that the laws are displayed. Has Liz been in jail for 30 days? Because by law it is mandatory 30 day and the repayment.

You mean the law just mentioned in character.

That previously was apparently not in place.

This exactly what has worried me. Things that where assumed addressed are being used against characters now.

We as players made choices. Both in and out of character.

Now its been floated in discussion that Quince is knowing breaking case law. Which were never spelled out in or out of character.

Which is why I'm asking, not telling, if it will also be reckoned?

Since these where things that at the time where unknown to us but would have been known in character.

Retconing usually explains why both what happen and what changed can both make sense in continuity.

We have been function for more than a year as a nation and city in character. That length of time for a lawful good community implies that dealing with crime would be handled justly. With no in character complaint in that time, a low unrest score, generally positive stability scores. I think its clear that we would have a well received justice system.

Having never before an opportunity to say what a specific law or exact punishment for crime in character was.

Picturing a late medieval society where matters were often brought to authority to be resolved. Quince made a judgment. He understood that Cleo was Hurt and that she had chosen not to help. When a situation close to a compromise presented itself he took it. The injury was fixed, the person taken into custody and there was restitution.

I don't think that's an unreasonable position.

Plenty of room to disagree on degree, the nature of the crime, whether or not magic compunctions are mitigating factors or not.

But retroactively setting a law in place that Quince would have been aware or could have been made aware to now denounce him as corrupt. Seems unfair.

I mean if the law was different it would have played out different.

I'm not saying Quince is corrupt. Let me try and condence this better. I'm mainly asking if this is something we want to ignore or address?

And yes it would have. If we where going back to change it Cleo would have asked for 60 days in jail as she stole two points and a single point, givin' how pricey belts and headbands cost, would be must more valuable in addition to everything else. It also could have been some Quince tried to get Cleonora to drop from the talks in exchange for something else.

And yes things would have played out massively different. How Cleo would feel about it now, the wording Joan used at tea. Many factors would need to be dealt with. Because using this knowledge and applying it to past posts, either Joan just told Quince he is corrupt, or his was just blowing smoke.

My point being is large parts of the problem we're having right now, would be different to such a degree that it is worth bringing up.

That makes sense. If the facts are different. The response could be different all over.

Oh I'm saying not could be, would be. I'm saying it would change. Thus the question.

LOL

I think we agree there.

I say "could" be different "all over."

Meaning that it opens up possibilities for many different things to have had happen and a variety of responses.

Yes, I believe so. Which is why I brought up the question. It could changes things for the better, it could also change things for the worse. It's one of those questions, do you want to risk it?

We don't have to set the punishments, but maybe more of a record of trials and justice mete out. Its all fluff one way or another.

The council is waiting on a response to Kev's question.

Unless others want to visit Cleo separately before the Council after this matter is resolved we could invite her in for her business. Its already been a couple days.

???

Well Sulvanii is like Johnny on spot. Cleo sent him and letter and he was there within the hour of getting it. She said 'I have a problem' and he just went poof into her office all 'I am here to solve it!'

Like I was impressed! XD

No one else has made friends with Sulvanii, I help my friends. I also do what I can for our country but it is what it is.

Lol! Well it seems Cleo makes better friends with NPCs than the PCs! XD

To be fair.

Tristan is marrying one.

Kev has been loving one for some time.

Quince has worked closely with Bearik recently.

Also this is another of those situations where it certainly looks like the PCs have neglected the NPCS but I think that if that is the DM's perspective there should be some conversation.

Each of the PCs on the council had NPCs that answer to them. According to the roles in the Compact. So during the times that we have been in the capital attending our duties it would stand to reason that each of the PCs is working with those that fall under their purview.

OH! Quince thank you! You reminded me!

Also there are probably rumors of Quince and Bearkin's daughter spending time together.

How far do you think they've spread?

Lol

oh you meant the rumors.

Probably a gather information roll.

Sulvanii and Bearik are close. Cleo and Sulvanii have spoken together a lot.

Well the Sulvanii and Cleo's talks here are actually not caught up to the gameplay timeline.

My main question is do we want to get this out of the way now or later?

My thoughts would be to drag it out.

There is the letter that wS sent that hasn't been addressed.

There is a wedding coming up with Larina and Tristan.

Well, hasn't been addressed by Quince, Tristan, Katrina, or Bearkin. Sulvanii and Jorne with Cleo have the situation in hand. Though Bearkin likely sent Sulvanii as they work closely together.

And yes, but Quince and Cleo's interaction over this wouldn't need to involve anyone else. It would literally just be her giving Quince a list of logical reasons not to get close to Liz.

Oh I almost forgot.

@Cleo I know you have a full body pose of Cleo in your profile. But I found the full picture that Cleo's Portrait is from. If you want it.

Cleo

Oh I actually chose the portrait because it was the closest I could get to the picture I found for her.

But speaking of pictures, you do know yours isn't able to be seen without asking for permission right?

No I didn't its old. I am trying to find something new anyway.

Its hard when the portraits are the first thing you see anyway. Yeah I didn't know if you might want a about town look vs a hooded and cloaked look.

That reason is actually why I post what her outfits look like. The portrait was to be her without the hooded look.

Cool I hope you find the full picture helpful then.

Well if Cleo ever gets to run around to exploring with the group then it'd be very useful for that. However I'm not sure how likely that would be at this point...

Cleo isn't a lost cause. There has been a rift.

Since that rift. I think when more facts come out about the incident and the agreement is honored it will be something easier to look past.

Also Cleo does have a solid friendship of Katrina. Who is someone Quince would put a great deal of weight behind and overlook his own barriers for.

We also have no idea what REASON we will be given that might entice us to work together.

Friendship with Katrina and Sulvanii, and a starting one with Jorne. Though Saren seems to think Cleo wants to fight him... I think...

Well I have a reason burning in my pocket! However I don't want to overload us... It was suggested.

Not sure what that means.

There could be many reasons why we would need Cleo's help or expertise.

Once we are working together toward a mission momentum and time will work us together.

I was talking about the idea I bounce off you when I needed a third party.

Maybe.

I was thinking something more generic. Like a skill or knowledge you specialize in or you heard a rumor about something in the woods to the west and know we are going to explore in that direction you feared asking but Katrina wants you to come a long.