Leandric needs the night to prepare Expeditious Excavation, he doesn't have it right now. He can dig a 15 feet deep hole but that would cost him all his 1st lvl spells (3x5 ft) and I'm not sure that's ideal.
This is true. Perhaps let's stick with the more conventional 'tie them up and watch them' first, then. We can dig a pit if we need one using good old fashioned elbow grease. : )
Enlarge person has a one-round casting time, but there's no reason Cuddles can't begin mop-up whole the wheezing wizard is casting. The plan looks solid!
Also, if Katya wants to take levels in a casting class, who better to learn from than a wizard? :p
Leandric isn't too strong offensively at the moment though. For starters I completely forgot about Color Spray and while that somewhat suits Leandric it isn't ideal.
When it comes to offense I'm now stuck with Ear-Piercing Scream (which I picked for the entertaining image) and creative use of Silent Image.
EDIT: And my Heavy Crossbow of course.
EDIT2:
Also, if Katya wants to take levels in a casting class, who better to learn from than a wizard? :p
An Arcanist :P
Probably not getting Harsk out of his armor on day one. He's open minded for a dwarf but not THAT open minded. Everything else looks good. Keep in mind there is a bonus for just sitting still in concealment so as long as I'm not humming dwarven war tunes or something I should be okay in the building.
Also Angel would it be okay for me to modify Harsk as a forgepriest? I think it makes good sense and fits my background/personality/etc.
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Probably not getting Harsk out of his armor on day one. He's open minded for a dwarf but not THAT open minded. Everything else looks good. Keep in mind there is a bonus for just sitting still in concealment so as long as I'm not humming dwarven war tunes or something I should be okay in the building.
Also Angel would it be okay for me to modify Harsk as a forgepriest? I think it makes good sense and fits my background/personality/etc.
I don't mind the modification. What I would like is to see the archetype. I do not have the book yet, so I am going off what everyone else is telling me.
Forwarded the email I got with the archetype in it. Let me know what you think.
See the big 'ok bulleted list on the last page, complete with map. Only minor alterations have been made to that plan, as far as I know. For example, Cuddles gets big before the color spray happens.
I can't find the map...I feel so...Hrmm...
I assume Cuddles is in the barn because he won't fit out the door of the storage shed if he's already enlarged?
I've moved the figures around on the map to where I understand we're setting up for the ambush. Let me know if I've got anything wrong. : )
Also: I am dropping the kids off at kinder etc. this morning, so I won't be back for around 2½-3 hours from now. But Katya's not doing anything in the surprise round (presuming we get one) other than shutting the gate, so that's not a massive loss. : )
Could someone move Cander to one of the guest beds? I'm at work and only have my phone.
A dangerous thing for a GM to say. ;)
Sorry, I clearly failed at comprehension. I've moved Katya to where she's sleeping now. Apologies!
Under my name, it says Kingdoms!.
Click that. :P
AH HA!
Who's a rascally little link, yes YOU are!
*cough*
Got it.
So:
- Cuddles is sleeping in the stables.
- Harsk is sleeping outside.
- The rest of us are sleeping in the guest house.
Is that enough for you to move on with, GM Angel?
No worries, just wanted to check you hadn't missed a post. : ) Real life always comes first!
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Ok, please forgive me if my method of GMing and such is a bit different.
This may be a convention that I am just used to being much more involved in tabletop vs PbP GMing. Whenever a check to be made is opposed: aka your stealth check vs NPC or Mob's Perception check, that is not a check that normally is allowed to take 20 on.
Taking 20: When you have plenty of time, you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, if you roll a d20 enough times, eventually you will get a 20. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.
I would rather this come up now, than later, and I am not trying to be obtuse. I am more just trying to gauge how you guys are used to it being run on a table versus how I am used to GMing tabletop.
Major issue I have is that there is danger involved in that the bandits could do a lot of different things if they see you. I certainly understand that they would not see anyone coming into the post. You could could hide well enough from a distance that they would ride up without suspecting anything. However once they got within bowshot, logic tells me that they would get an opposed roll, considering the fact that now everyone has to be able to hold their nerves while waiting for the bandits to make their move.
What do you guys think?
Seems reasonable to me if being spotted carries a penalty.
I just got home after a full day of work and an intense PFS game in which my bard died, so I'm a bit addled. No idea on the ruling; I say the GM goes with what makes the most sense.
Constant fort saves combined with ongoing con damage. My bard was dropped by the BBEG, stabilised, and was then caught in a negative energy channel, which dropped him to dead.
Thankfully, the table unanimously decided to pool in for a raise dead.
While in general I would agree do take into account we have time to prepare here. We could have created the best hiding places possible.
Besides, the bandits have no reason to be suspicious. It's always just Oleg and Svetlana here, no one else.
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Ooh, have not done that one yet. Remind me to tell you sometime about the joyful experience that was Elven Entanglement.
And that is nice, to chip in for the raise. I've started carrying two sets of first aid gloves. We just did one of the season 5 7-11 scenarios a week or two ago, and had I not had them, we would have lost our bard.
He figured paying for one glove for me was cheaper than paying a ton of cash/PP to raise. Those things are lifesavers.
EDIT: Also, I am going to wait to hear from everyone before progressing. Any last minute actions just let me know. Any of you that want prep spells or such, since Katya saw them coming, you all would have plenty of time to cast prep spells and time them appropriately.
So here is how this technically breaks down...
Those of us who have concealment and cover are allowed to make stealth checks. No taking 20 on opposed rolls. We roll, or take 10 as we are not actively threatened. Not so good for us...well for me :p
BUT
Bandits rolls in and make perception checks. Why wouldn't they right? Their DC is our stealth check plus modifiers.
Modifiers?
+5 through a closed door (those of us in buildings)
+2/-2 based on conditions being favorable. (Are the horses loud, the bandits loud, is there wind or is it drop dead quiet? The general "2" modifier for circumstance)
+5 Are the bandits distracted? Ie. Are they only looking for Oleg, have no reason to be hyper aware, talking amongst themselves.
Then of course the one most people forget... +1 per 10 feet.
So.
Harsk in the building: Take 10 Stealth: 10 +1 for Dex -6 for Armor. OUCH! Stealth of 5
DC to notice Harsk? 5 (Stealth) + 5 (Door) + 5 (50' Assume they make their initial checks when they walk in the door of the post, they may make other when they are closer) and any other bonuses or penalties.
If these guys are being a bunch of loud jackasses talking to each other and yelling at Oleg the DC to detect loud grumbly Harsk could be as high as 22. Average perception check of a bandit is... 12? 14? (Probably being overly charitable there as wisdom is rarely a defining characteristic of a bandit but since only fighter aren't trained how to notice things *grumble grumble grumble* they probably have it as a class skill.)
A lot of GMs short hand this obviously. We take 10, they take 10, bonuses outweigh penalties? Hooray!.
But there can be fun suspense in saying, for instance, that we can take 10 on the initial check (when they come into the post) but every round, 5 rounds, or minute after that we are actively threatened and it is all opposed checks we must roll, etc.)
I have never had a GM say I can't take 20 on a Stealth check before, but it appears from my research that that opinion is very much in the minority. Maybe we play the game differently in Australia. ; )
No problem! That being said, the penalty from Lovesick applies only to Perception and initiative checks. Second, the whole point of the exercise hinged for me on being able to take 20 on stealth. If I can't, I would rather have done it differently, by hiding Katya behind the gate to peer out the hinge and get improved cover (which all the others should have too) but a penalty on Perception due to the limited field of view.
It's all done now so I will just deal with the consequences, but can we please remove that -2 modifier from Lovesick? Now let's kick bandit butt. ; )
For what it's worth, Katya will yell to Cander to chase down the one outside as soon as the action starts. Now I should go back to bed. : )
I have never had a GM say I can't take 20 on a Stealth check before, but it appears from my research that that opinion is very much in the minority. Maybe we play the game differently in Australia. ; )
No problem! That being said, the penalty from Lovesick applies only to Perception and initiative checks. Second, the whole point of the exercise hinged for me on being able to take 20 on stealth. If I can't, I would rather have done it differently, by hiding Katya behind the gate to peer out the hinge and get improved cover (which all the others should have too) but a penalty on Perception due to the limited field of view.
It's all done now so I will just deal with the consequences, but can we please remove that -2 modifier from Lovesick? Now let's kick bandit butt. ; )
For what it's worth, Katya will yell to Cander to chase down the one outside as soon as the action starts. Now I should go back to bed. : )
You are not alone, a lot of GMs house rule the ability to take 20 on stealth it just isn't technically allowed. I think it is another way to shorthand going through the tables and finding all the benefits/penalties and just hand waving it as taking 20.
Besides from where she is even taking ten with all the penalties against their search (intervening walls or floors for instance) makes her hard to see. I think we will be fine with the plan as it is.
Okay, seriously, now I can't go back to sleep. Awesome. (ﾉ`Д´)ﾉ︵ ┻━┻
I include the discussion below only because I find it interesting and I can't sleep, not because I want to have a debate about GM Angel's ruling. : )
All the circumstances that mean there is an opportunity for 'failure' of a Stealth roll due to someone getting to make an opposed roll while you're trying to hide actually fall into other categories listed under the take 20 rules, e.g. being under threat ("quick, hide before the guards come back!"), or being unable to take your time (like using Stealth in combat), or being distracted (like trying to use Stealth while you're also crossing a balance beam).
Therefore, no failure for rolling low on a Stealth check. Only for someone else rolling better than you on their Perception check.
Also, Stealth has no 'Try Again' paragraph.
Try Again: Any conditions that apply to successive attempts to use the skill successfully. If the skill doesn't allow you to attempt the same task more than once, or if failure carries an inherent penalty (such as with the Climb skill), you can't take 20. If this paragraph is omitted, the skill can be retried without any inherent penalty other than the additional time required.
(Source; Core Rulebook p87)
That to me says you should be able to take 20 on Stealth.
Speaking of which, I do it as a GM all the time to set up ambushes. It's the only way I beat my PCs' Perception checks anyway! That being said, they've been known to take 20 on their Perception checks to spot an ambush in likely spots. : |
Anyone got any tips for going back to sleep? Perhaps I should just go to work; the first train is in fifteen minutes! : þ
Wow... Flipping a table is one of those things I never expected to see in type...
I did say I have an emoticon problem. ; )
Also a sleeping problem, it seems. : \
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Cynariom, on the road on delivery right now.
I have some that I want to respond with, an explanation that I think will clear up my thoughts on this ,but I need the prd and a mouse and computer to do it any justice.
Suffice it to say, it has to do both with the try again clause and the time clauses. Also addressing the no failure idea.
This was once heralded as the "most relaxing song ever"...I have used it to go to sleep on a few occasions. There are mixes on youtube and elsewhere that loop it for minutes or hours.
Hey GM Angel, don't worry about defending your position--your word is law, this is your (virtual) table. If I in any way sound like I'm challenging your position, I apologise. : )
If you want to chat about it then sure, but otherwise, feel free to use your time for something more productive. : )
Devon, thanks for the link. Listening to it now is probably a bit counterproductive unfortunately as it's wake up time anyway!
Be back later. : D
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Ok, back at a computer. Was out on a delivery.
I will say this upfront so that everyone understands how I look at gaming in general. I have been accused of having an overly logical and analytically focused mind. As a result, if something logically works out in my head, that is normally the direction that I go with something. Much to the chagrin of my local Venture Captain. (the words: silly player, this is pathfinder, logic is for kids. These have been stated many times in my presence)
The idea on the stealth check and taking 20. I would say that for the first stealth check that everyone could take 20 sure. So when they come to the fort, and all make their perceptions initially, they notice nothing. However, taking 20 on a check takes roughly 20 times the length of time that it would take to make a normal check of that type.
So here is my thought. You guys take 20. They come in, see nothing is wrong. Once there is another situation that prompts a stealth check, you guys don't have another 2 minutes to take 20, and since they are opposed rolls, everyone is going to have to make a check. There are modifiers for things like..., hey, there is a solid wood door in the way. Or..., i'm hiding behind a stone wall. Those all carry benefits.
I just looking at it, you guys hid to make sure they didn't see you once they came in, but now they have different vantage points, and everyone is praying they don't step on the proverbial twig. That's why after the first one they are opposed. Also, in the initial round, the head bandit did have a chance to spot a couple of you.
That's just my thought processes. Also how I tend to think through most of the things I do as a GM and a player. As a player I tend to argue more in my own favor, as a GM, I try to at least have it make sense as opposed to what would normally happen.
Anywho, sorry for the digression. Back to the real fake world.
That is a completely reasonable way to run it. No objections here.
Fine by me, all makes sense.
I will say this upfront so that everyone understands how I look at gaming in general. I have been accused of having an overly logical and analytically focused mind.
That's not an accusation, that's a compliment. ; )
I am perfectly fine with your stance; it reflects how I would run it.
Hopefully any issues we have with hiding after they enter will be negated by the fact that we all jump out and attack anyway.
I assume we're going to take the surprise round now that the bandits are in the courtyard? In other words, execute the plan as in this post, with the handful of differences we've already discussed.
Which means it's pretty much time for Anton to cast color spray.
I've moved the figures around on the map. Where are the bandits? Or are we not going to use the maps for combat? I'm perfectly happy either way. : )
Katya won't be moving until something happens down below, unless the plan goes completely to hell in a handbasket.
Aye aye captain! Hope you've had a good day. : )
Leandric would project fake Olgan at around the A1 on the map.
As an aside, I'll be off for a few days starting tomorrow(Thursday) and will be back on Monday. If needed just npc Leandric. He's most likely to shoot his crossbow once the fight starts but if one opponent looks particularly threatening it becomes an Ear-Piercing Scream target.
I thought I'd check, and apparently Bluffing to deceive is a full round action. Feel free to ignore my Bluff if you like. : )