Interesting!! That opens up some possibilities for the rich!
"I'm so happy for them!" [/Gauntlet Jester]
Darn, now I want to build a jester that fights with gauntlets...
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Oh, I almost forgot...regarding the items in question, BD.... you simply need to send me a link to the PFSRD page with the item(s) on it or the name of the book and page number.
You can buy any magic item up to a certain amount (I think I posted that earlier...it's around 12-17k). If you're concerned about something in particular attracting too much attention, one or more of the other Shades of Grey members who are not in the party can always buy them. The Shades of Gray, through Janiven and Arael, have a number of fringe members who do not hang out in the chapel or engage in combat activities, but support the group through peaceful, legal means. The horses borrowed from the stable are an example of that.
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As a friendly reminder.... y'all are responsible to check the PDF character sheet in the shared folder about once/week to insure that things on there are correct. If ya did, ya might notice ya might still be level 1 :) There's always a chance my spam filter got ya, so make sure you double check purchase, level ups, etc to know they go through. And sometimes my fingers stick. Thanks!
I sent you my info by e-mail, believe that everything should be there
Quick question JC. Are powerpoints tracked on the party sheet, sorry if I've missed them. I believe Brandon has 4 and I just wanted to check.
GM-JC, I e-mailed you the changes for Tessai leveling to 2, and you confirmed its reception :/
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TIme for a little meta discussion about Gold.
Here's what I'm generally used to....
If the party finds gold, it gets split
If the party finds a magic items no one wants, it gets sold (usually at 1/2 retail price) and split evenly.
If a party member wants the found magic item, he/she keeps it. I generally discourage conversations about whether items are 'useful' for a character...they tend to be more meta than not.'
A party member who wants to keep an item doesn't generally have to 'owe' the party for it.
If more than one party member wants a magic item, a common way (though not required) to resolve it is to draw logs (roll d100; highest wins).
If an item's usefulness has come to an end, the party member sells it and keeps the gold for himself or splits it...his choice.
Again, these are general guidelines I'm used to, though they aren't requirements. However, given the nature of play by post, and my limited ability to keep track of drawn out arguments over party finances, I suggest y'all have a discussion, meta-wise here, and either accept the above or something similar that can be easily implemented. Anything outside of that (Such as a party member who wants to give another party member his gold, sell him/her an item directly, etc) really needs to be RP'd out first... because obviously some of that has RP implications.
Let me know what you think. Discuss!
A proposed charter, in some few verses
Of plunder, and to save vs curses
Coin taken? Fully half set by
(Things break, need mending, people die)
The second half, in shares, to who?
All Janiven's? The tavern crew?
And what of Aemon? Where's he stand?
It's meta, no? "He's... with the band"
It's meta, yes. But has to be
The secret handshake of 'PC'
So second half to PCs all
(and then the group, should PC fall)
(because replacement might be met
who hasn't gathered much swag yet)
Of gizmos found: if needed, keep
The shepherd gets the magic sheep
The archer, bow, the bladesman, blade
Two claim it? The decision's made
By quorum of all who would speak
By two days (short? Too long, a week)
Of swag unclaimed: the Giant said
"I'll grind his bones to make my bread"
So shall it be, the unloved, sold
And see above, to parse the gold
Of magics held, and then unwanted:
To keep the balance sheet unhaunted
By the ghosts of "I'll take that"
"It's price will buy me that new hat."
All unwanted items, sold
And see above, to parse the gold
A proposed charter, in some few verses
Of plunder, and to save vs cursesCoin taken? Fully half set by
(Things break, need mending, people die)The second half, in shares, to who?
All Janiven's? The tavern crew?And what of Aemon? Where's he stand?
It's meta, no? "He's... with the band"It's meta, yes. But has to be
The secret handshake of 'PC'So second half to PCs all
(and then the group, should PC fall)
(because replacement might be met
who hasn't gathered much swag yet)Of gizmos found: if needed, keep
The shepherd gets the magic sheep
The archer, bow, the bladesman, blade
Two claim it? The decision's made
By quorum of all who would speak
By two days (short? Too long, a week)Of swag unclaimed: the Giant said
"I'll grind his bones to make my bread"
So shall it be, the unloved, sold
And see above, to parse the goldOf magics held, and then unwanted:
To keep the balance sheet unhaunted
By the ghosts of "I'll take that"
"It's price will buy me that new hat."
All unwanted items, sold
And see above, to parse the gold
Yeah, I'm cool with that in general. What's the saving half deal - a "Shades of Grey" rainy day fund?
I am ok with anything, I generally like to split coin, find the best use for a piece of equipment, weapon, armor, magic, etc. escpecially if its used to benefit the party. Unwanted or otherwise - sell it.
That being said, my character is a bit young and selfish so he will want more than less and I'll not meta him when it comes to dividing stuff, but take no offense.
If you lose a hand, and we've all spent down to our last copper, you'll be glad of a Lymeade Fund. If the fund gets up past the cost of a raise dead, we can vote to stop sharing to it, but yeah, it's because we might need it.
This is all so meta... WBL suggests we'll all have the same needs for cash, which is not true. But we might all have the same single need for a large lump of cash. So a party fund kind of splits the difference.
We've already seen the need for more cash than anyone had in pocket. It could happen again, and to one of the PCs, and far more clearly truly be our problem. And while a silenced Devil might be nice, a silenced Kyle? We might think twice. :)
So who holds the money? I say Kyle. When someone says they don't like how I spend my money, I like to put them in a position to have to think about how to spend my money. The next poor maimed citizen's need will come up against his own sense of duty, not my caution, nor X's thrift, or Y's greed. It's petty, vindictive, trusting, and respectful, it's like a parfait of progress.
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I'm a little dense...and I'm from the south...and I'm an accountant. So, basically, I have little clue what you tried to lay out as guidelines, BD.
I will say that in regular groups, simpler methods are generally better than terribly complex ones. In a Pbp, even more so. The more things I can 'assume' based on guidelines and the easier they are in practice, the smoother things will flow.
WBL suggests we'll all have the same needs for cash, which is not true. But we might all have the same single need for a large lump of cash. So a party fund kind of splits the difference.
What is WBL? zomg...you lose me. I'm a wee confused here. If you take a share of the take to set aside for a rainy day, how is that different than splitting what you find and everyone chipping in if someone dies (for a res). Actually, if you're concerned about the person who doesn't need gold as much getting too much, usually this method works. The guy who needs more money is generally broke...so those (like monks) who have a massive amount tend to pay more. Granted, no one is making them, and occasionally someone gets stingy...However, it usually works out that way (monks pay more).
So who holds the money? I say Kyle. When someone says they don't like how I spend my money, I like to put them in a position to have to think about how to spend my money.
Ok...I just have to ask... wasn't it BD who first accused Kyle (which in turn, earned a retort from Kyle)? I had to look up rapacious in the dictionary when I saw your post, originally, and it said something about plunder and greed, LOL. Sorry...don't mean to get off track...we sound like a bunch of kids, "But HE started it!" hahahaahah
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I believe the others (Arael and Janiven) made it clear that y'all are more than able to keep among the adventuring members, the money you earn/find/etc. Conversely, however, their resources are limited in supporting those groups. If you do want to set aside a Lymeaide fund, and desire a more neutral third party to keep hold and/or administer it, you can ask them to do so. Alternatively, there is a small temple of Abadar in town. Chelaxians appreciate Adadar's neutrality in most matters outside of the finances, and their absolute deduction to order in money and support of growing civilization. You can deposit funds in a trust account there with various conditions and they will only release those funds when those conditions are met. (And make interest on it in the mean time!)
WBL is wealth by level im guessing but apart from that, sorry BD, I didnt get much of what you were saying either. Lets just keep it simple. Any unwanted items get sold and all proceeds split equally. If there is an item two party members want and characters cant negotiate a solution, highest die roll takes it. I also suggest one extra equal portion for 'party gold' and we can use that kitty for anything that benefits the party as a whole such as bags of holding and scrolls of res.
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Is this still going on?
I don't really follow BD's plan either and it sounds like he's offended by my comment following his insulting insinuation that I was greedy for playing my character to desire a ring that has similar characteristics to his deity.
Perhaps I should try not to play my character and just follow along. Go ahead and sell the ring, Kyle only wanted it for the above reason. I was trying to think of what he could do with it to fit in with the story line.
Let us not forget why Kyle made the comment in the first place. Maybe he should keep the tension mounting with his own innuendos. However, I'm more of a straight forward type of person and if I have a problem with someone I let them know.
I don't care what plan BD comes up with as long as Kyle doesn't hold onto anyone's funds and he can pay off his debts quickly.
Alright, not the first time I've been told I'm unclear.
Kyle, back in the sewers, BD was still considering the PC party to be part of Janiven's organization, and owing loyalty there. And Kyle was still stinging that everyone hadn't coughed right up with Lymeade money. Is that fair enough summation? So when BD said Jan/Arael might have an interest, let's not just grab and own whatever we see first, that tweaked Kyle. And when Kyle turned it around to call Devil greedy, that tweaked Devil.
Keep the ring, for RP reasons. Keep the ring, for meta reasons. You can make your own RP list, you've already said Kyle sees it as a boon he was guided to. I don't see any RP reason to ditch it (wait, I see one). (Just like Devil would have given up the platinum, and tried, to get out from under the cloud of Kyle's accusation of greed, so Kyle is willing to give up the ring for similar reasons. I'm hoping I can talk dakingofkrap into talking Kyle out of that.)
Meta reasons to keep the ring: It's very cool. I will note, it's far more powerful for a charismatic user. We don't have any high-CHA in the party, but we have lots of high-CHA allies. That it punches as hard for a 0-level user as for a 10th-level makes me agree with Kyle, we _were_ guided to it.
Definitely keep it.
Regarding 'debts', if you allowed time for people to agree with you rather than just lend you ready money, you might not have such debts. I know you would have less.
And please don't play Kyle less.
Separate post, and in a hurry, so maybe that will make me clearer.
What I said in the charter post (taking out the Lymeade):
1. Divide all monies evenly, ignore items for now
2. Useful and desired magics go to who can use them
2.1 Vote to break ties
3. Sell unwanted magics, go to line one.
4. Magic that becomes unwated, sell, go to line one.
If you like a Lyemade Fund, set a fraction, pick a keeper.
I liked the poem better BD ;)
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Hahahaha. Well, BD knows from my PMs, I adore his poetry. It's wonderfully flavorful and on those occasions I understand the deeper meaning, it's super awesome. Occasionally, especially on busier days, the stuff flies over my head. (So if it looks like I'm ignorin' ya BD, I'm not!). Anywho, it's great stuff, and Amaya is going to be using it in a pub near you! :)
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Keep the ring, for RP reasons.
That was the intent, but I'm struggling to continue playing the character as is.
Keep the ring, for meta reasons.
Is this another innuendo of greed? Because with our history I take it as such.
You can make your own RP list, you've already said Kyle sees it as a boon he was guided to.
RP list, what? Are you suggesting that I make RP reasons to take party loot items?
I don't see any RP reason to ditch it (wait, I see one). (Just like Devil would have given up the platinum, and tried, to get out from under the cloud of Kyle's accusation of greed, so Kyle is willing to give up the ring for similar reasons. I'm hoping I can talk dakingofkrap into talking Kyle out of that.)
Is this levity or something deeper? I find it kind of creepy to use my paizo username. But if I recall correctly, you're European, and its more a norm so maybe not creepy.
I know that the ring would be better off in someone's hands with a high cha, but like you said, no one in the party has a high cha. And since we're down this meta road, we might as well acknowledge that the item doesn't benefit the party at all in a npcs hands.
Kyle doesn't care about paying anyone back. He doesn't care about how much anyone contributed. You just happened to insult him in the sewers. You cautioned a man of greed when hours previously said he would consume the debt himself. And you happened to be the only one that didn't offer to contribute. Granted, I know you would have contributed, and you thought it better to heal him later (for solid reasons). But the irony was too much to hold back after he was just insulted.
It is still early in the adventure and I'm certain that Kyle can reimburse the others quickly. It was a little meta for him to think so, but then again its meta for him to know that the others will have more need to improve their odds in encounters later on too.
Seriously though. I don't care for a rainy day fund. Just split the loot any way you like as long as I'm not in the decision. Sell the ring too since its been tainted. I don't want to have to RP it anymore.
Let's draw a line under this guys. Kyle, dude, you should totally keep the ring. Personally I'd rather keep this game about fun and roleplaying than counting pennies anyway.
Loot division, just to get a decision made.
1. All money looted and from the sale of unwanted items is divided equally.
1b. In my tabletop games a split is always set aside for party sundries. If we do this Brandon is happy to hold on to it. Majority rules on this decision, I say yes.
2. An item useful to a character or beneficial for RP reasons goes to that character.
3. Where there is dispute or an item is useful to more than one character and an agreement can't be made, highest roll takes it.
Does that suit everyone? Let's move on.
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I will give y'all an extra ring...one to keep and one to sell, if it keeps y'all from worry about it further.
Good RP is awesome, but we must always keep in mind that it serve the very meta-driven purpose of having fun. It may very well be a part of one's character to sometimes be rude to characters, for example, but that isn't much fun for other players, so we generally don't encourage that (I'm not saying that's what happening here).
Let's drop the ring convo. Kyle and BD, I like both of your characters and their flavor. Please continue to RP the way you have been doing so and don't change who they are. They both actually fit the campaign rather well and have both done a great job shining. Let's just try to be a bit more cautious of how we address disagreements your characters may have in the game. No matter how well RP'd those disagreements are, if they insult the other player, its not a good thing.
Part of establishing loot rules (from a meta standpoint) is because it does reduce the number of misunderstandings and concerns both from a meta standpoint and even from an RP one. While we do want y'all to RP out your interactions, removing the need to have too many RP-heavy inter party discussions about money usually means less arguments and misunderstandings. In fact, I normally start off a lot of my new groups with a meta discussion on loot just to get it out of the way.
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PS...see your post Brandon. What are sundries?
And I do agree, majority rules in these types of decisions...y'all decide and I, as GM, will enforce it as I update your sheets and the such. It's meta, but it's efficient. (No, the rogue can't steal an extra share or pocket a trinket he found that hopefully the party didn't see...again, its meta, but it cuts off arguments).
I will tell you that from previous experience, that your approach (your three rules above) will probably work just fine as long as party members understand that they can't get super judgmental on what other players call as 'useful' or 'RP-needed.' If you honestly feel a player(s) is claiming items too often (abusing the system and rolling on everything), then email me. If more than one or two people complain about a player ... or I feel the same way, I will address it with that player privately.
I have been keeping silent regarding this because... well, Tessai has already addressed this in play. I am known around my game table for long dicussions both in character and out, but I try to avoid it not to derail the game.
Lets drop a stone on this one - I mean, lets BE META this time and drop it because it surely looks it may get sour beyond recovery, and I would really not see that happen.
Just my two cents.
Ahh - as a native Canadian I knew what sundries were, see my non US reference to chesterfields and our words.
I agree, lets move on, great characters and great RP everyone.
By sundries I meant any items that the whole party generally benefits from; 'handy bits and bobs' to put it another way in my Welsh parlance :-) In my tabletop games this tends to be small useful items (not a problem here due to Phil's houserules), things like bags of holding, wands of CLW, scrolls of res, rope of climbing and so on.
Let's move it along guys, there's shadow creatures to hunt!
I've been keeping out of this, but Kyle should keep the ring if he wants it I have no problem with that, and if someone else wanted to use it you would role on it.
I agree with Brandon's idea on a party gold split for wards and such also.
Lets all be a happy family again and watch me never hit anything.
I dunno about never hit anything. There are some walls and trees that must be pretty mad at you :-P
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Ah. I am used to some parties totally splitting the costs for healing wands (though not potions), raise deads (though not remove curse cost), etc. It's interesting, hahahahaha
I'm totally OK with y'all contributing to a pot of gold for a rainy day or something like that...but y'all do need to agree on a concise set of terms for loot division here in discussion so I can just run with those rules going forward.
Raise dead is 5k component cost 5,450gp (5k material plus cost to cast). Restoration is 1,380gp for each negative level. Since ya get two negative levels when you die (Remember, only one can be removed each week with restoration), yer grand total is 8,210.
Its up to y'all. Let me know. If you want to set aside a rainy day fund, or if you want to just find a way to pull money together when (and if) someone dies (Hopefully no one ever will!) or y'all decide you need other types of mutually beneficial preparation.
(Tess, if you want this in rhyme, I'll work on it. :) )
We all agree on even splits to all PCs.
Even splits is agreed.
We do not all agree on Lyemade, Rainy-day, or Sundries funds.
No such fund is established.
We all agree on items with a single claimant going to that claimant.
Single claimant may have plundered item.
We all agree conflicting claims should be resolved by d% roll-off.
(I alone wanted a vote of other members, I'm getting behind d% now)
Multiple claimants of a plundered item draw straws or similar.
We all agree unclaimed items are to be sold with proceeds evenly split.
These are the terms to be agreed upon. If you agree, speak now. If you dissent, speak now. In absence of any response, your agreement will be assumed, and made binding by the first majority of agreeing respondents.
This constitutes Black Devil's agreement with the terms above.
From my part, I am in favor of the "rainy day" fund but it is not up to me to decide alone. As far as the remaining options, I agree with them
As I understand it, the plan is to split everything, let players pick things that are particularly useful to their character (like that +2 icy burst greatsword I know is just around the corner ;) ), and roll when more than 1 person wants something.
I'm good with that.
I don't have a strong opinion on the rainy day / sundries fund, but if you made me weigh in I'd say eh, let's not worry about it.
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2 votes vs. Rainy Day Fund. 1 For. 3 more people left to vote.
As a friendly reminder, everyone should be posting multiple times/day. I know that it doesn't seem like everyone always has something to day, but please do your best to make an effort. Things tend to stall out when people disappear ...I'd rather you say something than let a posting period gone by in complete silence. Especially in the temple, there are numerous NPCs to check in on, ask questions, etc.
If you are going to be gone for an extended time (like a day or more), make sure to mention it here beforehand so we don't think you've just totally left us. Thanks!!
I am good either way, not trying to be non-commital, but I like the sharing approach and am truly indifferent to the rainy day fund.
I think we are all in agreement with all points (correct me if I'm wrong) except for rainy day fund.
In summary, those in favour:
Brandon
Aemon
Tessai
Those not in favour:
Devil
Beppo
Kyle
Im not sure how Corellon stands so unless I've missed a post relating to it, seems like you have the deciding vote - sorry mate.
Ninja'd - Corellon is indifferent to the fund so shall we say no and just split things 7 ways and find funds as and when we need them?
Since it's tied, let's consider Beppo indifferent as well, which makes it 3-2 with 2 non-committal votes and we can put a share away for whatever group projects we may need.
Oh, to have such a problem. :)
Proceed apace with division by eights,
Seven each to all, and one mounting
Toward Shade of Grey, black and blue, perhaps slayed
Up to ten thousands coins. (But who's counting?)
Rainy day fund it is.
"S Crow? Does that taste like chicken?"
(pant) (drool)
Hey JC, just want to let you know i'm on a business trip tomorrow tell late Friday. I should be ok to post but wont have a lot of time, and sorry if i miss a posting.
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okey dokies, Aemon
BD, you will have to show me what rules allow you to kick and use a reach weapon at the same time. I'm aware that monks fight with a combo of punches and kicks when they are unarmed. However, I'm not convinced (based on my understanding of the class) that a fully armed monk (with a two handed weapon) can still use kicks / unarmed strikes. Flavorwise, that might make sense, but mechanic / RAWish, you'll need to direct me to what writings you are using to come to that conclusion.
As far as reach weapons and this combat style works...those with reach weapons would normally be 5' behind the party line. There is a cover penalty to attack when this is the case. If you're on the front line with your reach weapon, you'll get any AoO's when the enemy closes, but you'll have to 5' back to attack. Alternatively, you can drop the weapon and fight with unarmed strikes.