Mighty glaciers?
I was thinking something more along the lines of "Fat ticklers."
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I was thinking something more along the lines of "Fat ticklers."
Don't kink shame me.
After four years on the boards and a lot of eventful games I have finally reached a point were I can no longer continue at the pace I am currently at. While I still love the pathfinder system my motivation but the spark of creativity, the wonder of such finally crafted realms and characters, is starting to diminish. I don't know if this is a slump, a wall, or just the passage of time changing my interests. But I can no longer dedicate the same time and energy that I used to. It is with a heavy heart that must withdraw my character from this game. I apologize the long delay and any inconveniences this creates. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.
Sorry to hear that Zayne. Best of luck in your endeavours as well.
Luca's going to miss Dante, but I understand.
I understand completely, Zayne. I'm sorry to see you go - you've been a fantastic player and Dante a fantastic character. If you're like me, then all you need is a break to rediscover your love of the game. Either way, adios and all the best to you.
I'll try and keep Dante's character active in at least the combats until the end of the current adventure.
Assuming Dante lives through the end of the adventure, I think I'm going to have him remain behind in Keldradt if/when you guys go elsewhere. Dante seemed interested in taking up the fight against the curse, so it seems appropriate.
That leaves us back at three characters, including only a single dedicated frontline character (though of course Luca's summons help there). I'm not overly keen on the idea of trying for another recruitment period as we just did that, so what do you guys think about coming across two permanent NPC helpers in the not-too-distant future? They'd be less complicated and less versatile than a full on character and they'd be under your control, perhaps under Tyrus and Kien's as Luca already has plenty of other things to steer about. I'd give them an introduction and establish their general characters then hand them over to you.
I might try shifting Fluffy into more of a combat role next time we level, too. That half progression imposes some preeeetty harsh limits, but it's probably more helpful than total defense all the time. XD I'd be just fine with some NPC helpers.
You've also been in fights recently where the total defense is less useful, that won't always be the case.
We're getting pretty close to being able to summon and animate a small army of hp minions.
Are you looking for the rp of having more characters, or just worried about us going down in a heap?
Turns out I did not move Tryus last time.
I intended him to move around to help with flanking. If he is still near Kien though, that's okay.
Hey, summoning an army is literally my primary class feature. XD
Assuming you survive this, you guys will be leveling at the end of the fight, so go ahead and start considering your changes.
Tyrus, I promise I'm working on the item creation rule, but work is slow as life is busy right now. Why don't you let me know what you were interested in so I can give you some feedback on how it might change?
Kien is a beefy frontliner but he's far from a dedicated tank who can soak damage for the party. Not unless we get some serious buffs going.
My levelup is pretty straightforward. Improvement to Summon Monster III, the Extra Evolution feat, changed Eidolon talents, and the previously-discussed healing touch that'll give us at least some recovery. Alas, I don't know of any way to get Channel Energy to go with it unless you want to be especially generous there (maybe trade out another power or two?), but at the very least, I think we'll be better off than we were. XD
I don't want us to have too much healing. Part of the appeal of the game was one in which damage was a problem. I believe that is part of the reason Luca and I have the builds we do; her to summon hp, me to give additional temporary ones.
If we do need additional healing then; at 3rd level Tyrus can get access to Vampiric Hunger. In theory this would let us turn captured prisoners and animals into hp.
Potentially he could research False Life: Other?
He could also pick up Signature Skill: Heal.
If there is blood left in this corpse (or maggot ooze counts) then potentially we could pick up Infernal Healing. @Mercy: is this something you are okay with, or would prefer not?
@Mercy: Craft Wondrous, I guess. I like crafting wizards. It feels like a a thing a wizard would do.
I have a feeling that the fact the world is money-poor means crafting feats are
(A) even more awesome, because reducing a cost from (say) 4000gp to 2000gp is an incredible difference.
(B) not very useful, because getting that 2000gp in the first case is almost impossible.
Are you planning to keep the game gp-poor? I know we've got alternate treasures, and I know we've turned back from adventures before we (presumably) got to the end boss and the l00t. Not sure if this is a design choice, or just a coincidence.
Kien is a beefy frontliner but he's far from a dedicated tank who can soak damage for the party. Not unless we get some serious buffs going.
@Kien: Have you met us? Buffs? Oh, we've got buffs. Even with buffs, though, I worry you cannot soak enough.
I was looking at Ablative Barrier, for instance. Non lethal recovers really, really fast.
Researching useful healing spells would definitely be an option for you, Tyrus. With your background and other skills I'd be very willing to consider ideas along that line. From fairly simple improved/mass versions of False Life (temp HP) to actual necromantic healing. I'd probably come up with some ways in which it was different than divine healing (and it would probably still count towards WW), but it'd be an option.
As for item creation, I'll first repeat what I'd said a bit ago: magic items are less common and tend to be tied to the user. I want to avoid the "oh ho hum, now I get a slightly more powerful magic sword" syndrome which strikes me as boring.
Possibly we could do it freeform, where you give me an outline of what you are trying to create and I dream up something along with some dice rolls to determine power brackets. Given the different economic system, prices would be very different: say you want to create a magic weapon (I prefer skipping the boring +<number> system and getting to the more fun enchantments. We might do a quick couple rolls that see you inquiring after the necessary materials, and you end up finding some rare reagent that can help you make a Flaming weapon, and you can acquire them for 10 gold pieces. That's a lot of money, yes, but will soon be within range for you guys (you'll be making a pretty decent return on this adventure, assuming you take a few particular actions).
Also, you will start coming across items that can be used to create magic weapons (you actually possess at least one already...), bringing down the raw cost a vast amount.
Finally, an idea I have is to allow coupling item creation and spell creation. You could research a powerful spell that requires a certain material focus which you then have to create.
Generally speaking, if you want to have lots of cash you'll need to focus on that being an objective of your adventuring - taking important jobs from rich people or otherwise figuring out lucrative ways to use your skills. You're approaching a very important threshold in that you are nearing the peak of the bell curve for characters levels normally found in Eldreon, which center roughly on levels 4/5. Money will start becoming easier to get ahold of, but amassing enormous wealth still takes dedication or luck.
@Luca: I'm not sure I see Channeling in your future. Between your Weird Healing and whatever abilities/spells Tyrus comes up with (possibly including the creation of potions and the like) I think you'll be relatively fine on that front though.
For what it's worth, upon levelup Luca will be able to manage an average of 42 HP/day in uncomfortable healing (2d6, averaging 7 HP, from 6 uses/day). XD So, not quite a full heal of Kienyach, but probably enough to get our frontliner back on his feet from a bad blow after the fight's over.
@Tyrus (again): As for infernal healing, I'd probably allow it but actively limit it by the "doses" of blood you can secure. Might even buff it up a little due to that. Maybe rapid healing 2, plus some kind of hidden effects for making use of devil's blood too often...
My worry is actually damage output. Dante may have been a glass cannon - but he was our glass cannon.
@Luca: Erk! Yeah, then I'm happy to stop trying to push Tyrus into the healing role for now. 42 hp is a LOT. Enough that the real limit there is World Weariness.
@Mercy: Something like Dynamic Magic Item Creation?
In which case maybe I should back off crafting. The feat as written is really built to do mass production of the big 6 items everyone seems to need (bonus to attack, bonus to ac, bonus to atts, bonus to saves and 2 others I forget).
Incidentially If you don't want to mess around with all the "+x to something" items, have you considered https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/unchained-rules/automati c-bonus-progression/ rules? They worked out how much of a normal budget is spent on things like the + on a magic sword, and just turned it into a level bonus. Sucks a bit for wizards (Tyrus isn't going to get a lot out of a +1 weapon attunement), but hey. May not be as much of a problem for you as a normal GM, as you don't use monsters out of the book (which assume people have the items)
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This level is the big one for wizards. 3rd level spells, a feat, an additional free wizard feat (which could be an Arcane discovery) and Torble learns to talk. I feel like I need to get this right.
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Okay, so let me step back from "keep everyone alive" and look at long term goals with Tyrus.
@All I could use some advice on this, especially from Mercy.
Tyrus was built around "anything for power" - thematic companion to a similar character I built that had "power isn't enough".
I'm interested in trying out routes to power that have terrible side effects.
The Bloatmage feat (and prestige class) comes from that.
I've appreciated the reagents that let him get a boost with terrible side effects.
Necromancy is full of trade offs like this, which is one of the reasons I am so interested in it.
Crafting might well fulfil that goal. Certainly crafting based off harvesting power (or bits) from creatures seems right. In which case, yeah, Crafting would be good. I can't see him crafting stuff he can't use, which means (A) Wondrous items (B) wands (C) potions (D) Poppets and (E) Constructs. (D) and (E) are to get more minions; and you already have to limit Luca and Tyrus from doing that, so it is out. (B) and (C) largely duplicate Scribe Scroll, which he already has, so that leaves Craft Wondrous. On the other hand, most wondrous items just duplicate a spell or give a flat bonus. It is used for Phylacteries, but that is flavour only. Hmmm. Rods and staves might make more sense, but that is a long way away.
Looking into this, I did find Harvest Parts, which seems eerily appropriate. At the moment that could only be used to make scrolls though.
I guess if this is something you are interested in exploring, Mercy, then I'd be more interested. I thought the fact you were rebuilding the rules was an indicator of that, but if it is to control the power then I can just not be a troublemaker.
Honestly, I'm worried the touch is still a bit low. XD I honestly haven't played healers much, so I don't quite know what's normal in the role. For now, I'm pegging it as recovery from two "bruising" fights or one "serious" fight in a day. For one front-line combatant. We can roll with it for now and see how it goes, though. ^^
(As for the Big Six items, that's Magic Weapon, Magic Armor, Ring of Protection, Amulet of Natural Armor, Cloak of Resistance, and Stat-Boosting Headband/Belt. Unarmed fighters swap the Magic Weapon for Amulet of Mighty Fists (or, better yet, combine that with the Amulet of Natural Armor). It's true that the game's math basically assumes characters will get these and recommended creature stats by CR are determined accordingly. Of course, in a highly customized game, that's potentially much less of an issue. XD)
@Luca: I'm assuming we're going to buff heavy defensive and use your summons as hp. My understanding is that that is a lot of world weariness though. I'm happy to see how we are; if we end up still having issues I'm hopeful we can get something to help, even if we end up with a Mobile Hospital!
@Mercy: clarification - I signed up to this because I liked the vision you laid out. I'm happy to try to work with you towards that vision. I appreciate the fact you've stuck with us for almost four years, but I want to make sure you are having fun as well!
At the moment I'm vaguely towards heading towards
Free feat: Alchemical Affinity, maybe Harvest Parts
Feat: maybe Varisian Tattoo (based off the magical channeling stuff he's seen in the temple, because it represents a sacrifice for power, and because I seem to be collecting all the +CL feats in the game one by one...)
Transmutation spell: Undead Anatomy I or Fly
Free spell: Clay Skin or Ablative Barrier - or possibly Lesser Animate Dead if we decide to go the minion route.
Honestly, with the item creation system I have in mind, I'm not sure I'd require the Item Creation Feat for the lower level stuff. So it wouldn't necessarily take away your ability to create things, just to create the most powerful things if you were not to grab that feat.
My aim in changing the item crafting rules isn't to depower them overall, but make the power more interesting. As you say, many items just duplicate a spell or provide a static buff to stats. I don't find those particularly fun. I'd rather see you create items that change or expand your abilities in strange ways.
Feel free to use your imagination and come up with off-the-wall stuff (same would go for Luca, of course, and even Kien in a less magical way). Also thanks for the link to Dynamic Item Creation Rules, I hadn't seen those before. I'll look through them - they do seem a bit closer to my style.
I know it can be hard to deal with my rules changes as they are often very freeform. It's just the way I prefer to approach the game. Of course, I'm also not all that great at it yet, as this is only the second game I've started up in Eldreon and I'm still getting the hang of both my own style and the way my rules preferences impact the game.
As to the way lacking the usual magic items impacts you: Luca has the right of it. I homebrew the challenges and enemies so much partially because I'm aware of the effects that lack has. One of the major reasons why the Morbid Dreamer fight was going to be so hard is due to the relative lack of magical weapons against an ethereal foe (hence the prevalence of the "ghost beater" clubs in Keldradt).
So, yeah. Don't worry so much about the item creation *Feats* unless you really want to specialize in item crafting. I'll make this preliminary pronouncement: That feat would be necessary if you commonly want to make items that are useable by other people. Otherwise, most of what you make is limited to your own use (which isn't to say you couldn't make an item YOU use that benefits others, say an item that can bestow a powerful buff effect).
In essence, come up with ideas, we'll bounce them back and forth and see what happens.
*Rubs chin* Summoners are pretty lax when it comes to gear. A lot of the stuff I might normally want - Amulet of Mighty Fists for Fluffy, say - is less important because it's got halved progression and really isn't as good a fighter anyway. XD
If anything, Luca would probably want to craft things that give her greater control of her power and perhaps more flexibility. Alternatively, maybe they're sort of foisted upon her and she grumpily decides to start trying to take control.
I've always been especially fond of 'iconic' gear for a character - one item that really stands out from the rest and is an integral part of who they are and how they behave. For Luca, it might be a rod or a ring of some kind (I don't think she's tall enough for a staff).
With that, I can see her trying to wrestle for control of her power and channel it in more useful ways. For some reason, I picture her trying to call and command elemental forces - a Summon Elemental power, as it were, but one requiring a standard action for active control each round (for balance). These would be less individual creatures and more magically-controlled forces that happen to act a lot like creatures (dispersed when 'HP' reaches 0, etc.). Normal summoners can call up elementals anyway, so it'd be right in line with what's expected of the class. XD Since it'd be an item, it wouldn't run off of Summoning Mastery... maybe it would have its own daily charges?
That, and maybe a few things from Sandy Petersen's Cthulhu Mythos for Pathfinder added to the summon list, 'cuz the book's finally out and has a lot of great things. XD Only relevant item at this level is the Moon Beast, I think, a CR 2 creature (AC 14, HP 19, Melee +6 (1d8+4/x3), couple of spell-likes).
Can't believe I'd forgotten to make this announcement:
I'm going on vacation starting this coming monday and will be away for ~12 days or so. I'm unlikely to do any game posting in that time, but I will have my computer and will try to check in if people have question on level-up builds or want to speak more about item creation/spell research.
Right-o. ^^ Thanks for the heads up!
Yay~
Levelup Summary:
HP: +8
FCB: 1 Skill Point
New Feat: Extra Evolution
New 2nd Level Spell: Slow
Replaced Spell: Compel Hostility -> Magic Fang
New Ability: Life From Beyond (replaces Life Link, Maker's Call, Transposition)
Reconfigured Eidolon
Oh you guys are great on offensive buffs :P
I'll work on getting leveled up sometime later tonight.
Mhmm, Kien is slowly getting to the point where he's going to start being crazy flexible in combat. Gaining feats as a swift action. I'm going to have to keep a table for reference.
It feels a bit like cheating to use one of the two free spells to do spell research. Happy to do it with an okay, just not sure if @Mercy will, I guess.
I'm interested in a spell that binds the subject's soul more tightly to its body, letting it keep going when it should by all rights die.
False Life sort of comes close, but is just bonus hp. Deathless is awesome, but only lasts a few rounds, and doesn't stop them falling unconcious. Overstimulate comes close, I guess but only lasts a few rounds and doesn't stop them dying at -con.
I could come close by combining Overstimulate and Deathless in multiple castings, but it's not quite right.
I'm thinking something better than Overstimulate in that it could legitimately be cast pre-combat.
Alternately, something that added a bunch of con for the purposes of dying, and lasted 24 hours, might be good.
A lot of this becomes a bit irrelevant with easier healing though.
@Kien: heard. I'll get some more defensive buffs.
Level up notes:
+HP
+skill
+feat
+ w5 bonus feat
+2 spells known
+1 3rd level spell per day (plus school bonus. Keep in con, goes to 12, so bonus hp)
Bonus to a physical att goes up to +2.
Enhancement school effect goes up @5.
CLs change
No change to BAB or Saves
Torble gains Nat Armr +3 (instead of +2) and int 8, and SPEAK WITH MASTER.
You can absolutely use one of your two free spells as a researched spell, but it'll be subject to the usual possibilities of bad rolls - and you wouldn't be able to toss out the results and redo it as you would if you were researching in downtime.
Perhaps a stronger version of overstimulate that prevents death no matter how far into negatives the target goes? When the spell ends, if the person is far enough into negatives that they would otherwise die, t restores them to just barely pre-death (negative con +1 point) and stable. The excess is added as World Weariness.
Does something like that work for what you were thinking? Pretty powerful, but I could see it as a 3rd level spell with the right caveats.
Also, yay for talky Torble.
Edit: Luca, had we said that your weird healing would be subject to World Weariness? Can't recall.
World Weariness: I'm not sure that was ever decided on. I do recall you mentioning something about switching to percent-based limits instead of flat numbers. For what it's worth, it is positive energy-based supernatural healing and should probably be treated as such for world weariness.
(I'd considered deviating and making it more complicated, but ultimately, I felt it was most appropriate to stick as closely as possible to the ability it's copying. It's less likely to have unintended interactions that way.)
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For the item, here's what I was thinking of in more detail. (Short Version: Extra summons, but only elementals)
The most important points are, I think...
* Everything this item can summon is on the normal Summon Monster list, so there should be no power level problems, and
* There's a restriction in place that prevents the user from being able to summon more creatures than the character normally could
I tried to lock out any potential abuses or loopholes, just to be on the safe side. ^^ It also takes up a valuable ring slot - not that we're dripping in magic items or anything, but on general principles, I feel good items should take good slots.
This ornate golden ring features a dark star sapphire set into the top - looking at it, you almost feel like you can see beyond the stars themselves. As a free action, a Summoner with the Void Caller archetype can transform the ring into a one-handed rod (or back again). Its other abilities can only be used while it is held in rod form. Regardless of form, this item always occupies one of the user's ring slots.
As a full-round action, the user can call upon the Void and channel power through the rod to summon manifestations of elemental power (using the same rules as Summoning Mastery for duration, feat interaction, and so on). While this does not actually summon living creatures, the magic controlling the elements behaves similarly to living things, and each manifestation of power is treated as a creature (and is therefore vulnerable to things such as mind-affecting abilities). The strength of the elemental manifestations that can be summoned is determined by the level of the user's Summoning Mastery. Just like Summoning Mastery, the Ring of Void Calling can summon multiple manifestations if used at a lower level (1d3 from the second-highest level, 1d4+1 from the third-highest and further down, +1 from the Superior Summoning feat).
Similarly, use of the Ring counts as Summoning Mastery for the purpose of determining how many active summoning spells the Summoner can have (i.e., when their Eidolon is out, they can only have one summoning spell active, as the powers interfere with each other). The Summoner can never have more simultaneously active summons from the Ring, their Summoning Mastery ability, any summon spells, and any other sources than their maximum number of Summoning Mastery uses (i.e., while the ring provides additional summons each day, it does not allow for more at one time than the normal maximum).
The Ring of Void Calling has a number of charges each day equal to 1/2 the user's Summoner level + their Charisma modifier. Charges are only restored once a day after 8 hours of rest.
Summoning Mastery 1 (CR 1/2 elementals): None
Summoning Mastery 2 (CR 1 elementals): Small Elemental (Aether/Air/Earth/Fire/Ice/Lightning/Magma/Mud/Water)
Summoning Mastery 3 (CR 2 elementals): None
Summoning Mastery 4 (CR 3-4 elementals): Medium Elemental (Aether/Air/Earth/Fire/Ice/Lightning/Magma/Mud/Water)
Summoning Mastery 5 (CR 5-6 elementals): Large Elemental (Aether/Air/Earth/Fire/Ice/Lightning/Magma/Mud/Water)
Summoning Mastery 6 (CR 7-8 elementals): Huge Elemental (Aether/Air/Earth/Fire/Ice/Lightning/Magma/Mud/Water)
Summoning Mastery 7 (CR 9-10 elementals): Greater Elemental (Aether/Air/Earth/Fire/Ice/Lightning/Magma/Mud/Water)
Summoning Mastery 8 (CR 11-12 elementals): Elder Elemental (Aether/Air/Earth/Fire/Ice/Lightning/Magma/Mud/Water)
Summoning Mastery 9 (CR 13-14 elementals): None
(Ice, Lightning, Magma, and Mud elementals are found in Bestiary 2. Aether elementals are found in Bestiary 5.)
Oh don't worry about it Tyrus, build how you want to. I'm just saying I can't soak all damage in fights. As long as we get something else, like summons or another frontliner, we should be fine.
Summons you certainly have, and I do think I'll end up introducing a couple helper NPC's for you guys to make use of. Maybe down the road we can do another recruitment, but not so soon after the last one.
It's true, we have all the summons. XD
@Luca: Great looking item, but I dunno. I just feel like we've been on such a roll with the 'weirdness' part of Luca to suddenly have you basically summoning boring old elementals is blasé. What do you think of an item that augments/supercharges your current summoning ability a couple times a day? Say, let's you essentially use it twice at the same time, or brings down the casting time to a swift action sort of thing.
If you are concerned about having useful monsters to summon (as you've mentioned the issue in the past) we certainly could add a few to the list.
I don't really know why I had visions of her summoning fire and hounding people with it. XD Although the entire weird mythos actually has a lot of living elemental stuff (like Fire Vampires), so it's not totally out of place.
Usefulness-wise, my big thing is hitting Level 7. That's when Aberrations really start to change from blob monsters to more distinct and interesting entities. Nightgaunts, Rust Monsters, and Vampiric Mists are all fairly distinct creatures, and summoning them is when I plan for her to really start to gain confidence and come into her power properly.
For augmenting the summoning ability... perhaps an item acting like the the Evolved Summoned Monster feat from the ACG, which can apply an Eidolon's evolutions to summons? That'd certainly keep the weird factor going. XD Let's say... a number of points per summoning equal to 1/2 Luca's summoner level, with a per-creature cap of 4 points? That would provide a way to buff and flexibly augment each summon, but also provide a fairly fixed limit on the potential benefits at higher levels.
Ok Kien should be all leveled up now.
How are we doing current health since we leveled up not during a rest?
Just add your level-up health to the overall total and the current total.
I'm rereading the story at the moment (figured I'd take advantage of the pause while Mercy is on vacation, see if I'd committed to anything when I reached the heady heights of 5th level). @Mercy: you do good NPCs. Helpful, not GMPC level helpful, and well motivated rather than slavishly devoted. Count me as in favour of NPC helpers, as long as we're mostly controlling them in combat.
I'm rereading the story at the moment (figured I'd take advantage of the pause while Mercy is on vacation, see if I'd committed to anything when I reached the heady heights of 5th level). @Mercy: you do good NPCs. Helpful, not GMPC level helpful, well motivated rather than slavishly devoted, and well written. Count me as in favour of NPC helpers.
I had a bit of time, so here's the above idea written up.
This ring appears to have been carved from obsidian, though it's sturdier than its appearance would suggest, and careful examination suggests it has a depth impossible for an object so thin. When worn by a Summoner with the Void Caller archetype, this ring allows the user to channel the power of the void and mutate creatures called by their Summoning Mastery ability or any conjuration (summoning) spell (as long as those creatures are on the Void Caller's list of summons, so this ability cannot enhance the summoner's eidolon).
This mutation acts like the Evolved Summon Monster feat (including the limitations of the feat), except it provides a number of evolution points each summoning equal to 1/2 the wearer's Summoner level. No creature can gain more than 4 evolution points through this effect, and the evolution points gained this way do not stack with any other source of evolution points. The Ring of the Void Caller can be used a number of times each day equal to 3 + the Void Caller's Charisma Modifier and regains its charges at midnight.
Interesting idea Luca, it would make each Vilstrak (I'm reading the early stories ;p ) more unique.
As an aside, it really was telegraphed just how dangerous Keldradt was. I somehow read it as the normal talking up of an adventure, but Naswel was straight with us.
They do have a bit of a faceless legion thing going on. XD ...Although not as much as the Nightgaunts will.