I took a look at Cain's profile, and nothing is standing out to me as incorrect there. I was confused by all the +0 skills until I looked up the clever improviser feat. It's pretty dramatic to be able to start without any negatives.
To everyone: you can continue to introduce yourselves or interact in character as you'd like, but I figured it would be helpful to actually have something to talk about, so I kicked off the intro to your quests in gameplay.
I've been sick for last 3 days and I'm still sick. I will post as often as I can.
I hope you feel better soon, Lander Graylock/neodam.
It occurred to me that the gather information and recall knowledge checks are meant to be secret (done by the GM) so we are unaware if we have a critical failure and potentially received incorrect information.
How do you want this handled?
I know that the rules also specifically call out open rolls as being allowed as long as there is no metagaming. I am happy to go either way. The face to face games I have GMed so far we have been using open rolls in part as a learning experience for the mechanics.
Stuff like that is definitely what this playtest is all about! What page are those rules found?
In my mind, as a GM, I'm all about open rolls. Being responsible for the player's gather info and knowledge checks is an extra duty I don't want to have to handle. I do enough already for players just to move stuff along...
It's in the sidebar on page 144. I can see what they were trying to do; not every player is as good as separating IC and OOC knowledge. It might be too much hassle for the GM here on the forums, but if Elinnea is up for it, I'd ask them to roll secret checks in spoiler for us. For those kinds of checks, you'll need to wait for the GM to give the result anyway, so you won't waste time anyway.
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I made some last-minute tweaks to Tessel's character sheet:
- I missed out on one cantrips, and added mage hand.
- It turns out Battle Medic is not a good idea with only a +1 bonus on Medicine, due to the Critical failure result. I picked 'Dubious knowledge'. (This ties in to the secret checks, so might be worth it to give that a try).
- I added equipment.
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Get well soon, Lander!
I can see it working okay if I set up a pre-formatted google sheet with every player's 'secret' skills. Then I just reference it whenever information is available, give it a roll and disseminate as needed.
I do see an issue though. Every single skill that allows Recall Knowledge and Gather Information, allows them to be done untrained. Thus the GM is going to need to roll every single PC's checks every single time there is information to be had and then disseminate. Granted, I'm sure most PC's will be at -1 or 0 mods, but a 20 is a 20 and you have 5-6 chances at hitting the DC or better. This seems like a nice way to include everyone in a lot of 'knowledge' checks (previously only a few classes/archetypes/feats gave that option) but I'm just not sure about it in effect.
Maybe the DC's on those checks are really high to adjust for 5-6 rolls per check?
The GM would also need to wait for a character to declare they are trying to use a skill, including to gather information or recall knowledge, that in theory should be secret as not everyone would risk the potential critical failure.
In fact, I was about to suggest Cain try a society check to recall knowledge about any of the groups involved, then I remembered the critical failure which led to the realisation that maybe I should not have provided dice rolls for some of these checks.
DCs for these vary depending on the situation and the level of knowledge involved. I have FtF run Arclord's Envy four times now. Each time we used open rolls (usually after discussion) and I saw some great roleplaying from someone who had a critical failure with one of the gather information checks. There was also a success and a critical success in the same group for the same part of the scenario so there were three levels of information provided. Fun was had by all.
Interesting. In P1 I use spoilers with DC's listed for each check. That kind of thing could be done here instead of mass rolls. Leave it up to the player to determine if they want to roll. But then I would need 3x spoilers. Success, Crit, & Crit Failure.
I guess I could just do a Success spoiler and if anyone hits the other two then give out the alternate/extra information to them.
Maybe this was a push to change the culture so that more people get involved in the games instead of just the PC's who train those skills?
Ironically, I'm about to go GM a Pathfinder Playtest game for some friends this evening, so I don't have time to give a detailed response on this topic right now. But I love the conversation that you're having, and I see some good ideas. When I get a chance back at the keyboard I'll chime in with what I'm thinking about secret rolls for this game.
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So here's what I'm thinking: the most significant of the secret rolls that I've noticed are the knowledge checks, stealth checks, and using Perception for a Seek action.
If you're doing any of those things proactively (like the post Jorgon made saying to think about Society and Underworld Lore, or if you're declaring that you're going to take a Sneak action) then you can say you're doing that and post your modifier. I will roll it in a spoiler and tell you the result. As Iff said above, that doesn't make it take any longer.
I expect to also use spoilers with a listed DC sometimes, the way it's often done traditionally in pbp format. In that case you can roll it yourself and I'll add some extra info if it's needed by a critical failure, critical success, or a dubious knowledge failure. I'll trust you all to roleplay the results properly.
I'd prefer not to do an unsolicited mass roll of knowledge for the entire group - not because it would be too hard as the GM, but it doesn't make sense to me that everybody would be thinking all the time about all these topics. Recall Knowledge takes an action in encounter mode, so I interpret that to mean it's an active thing you're doing, not just a passive how-much-have-I-heard. I do like that everybody can attempt these untrained now, though. Of course if the entire party says you want to sit down and pool your knowledge on some topic, I could make a roll for everybody.
Does all that make sense?
Makes sense and sounds good, though I know I have some habits to retrain. :-)
Note to self: post modifiers rather than dice rolls (for relevant situations).
You have clearly given this some thought Elinnea and I appreciate it.
That works for me, Elinnea. :)
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About the equipment. Here is Tessel's complete list.
Worn Ordinary clothing, dagger, sling, 10 sling bullets, brass religious symbol
Belt pouch minor healing potion, 31 sp, 3 cp
Backpack Dagger, Basic crafter's book, religious text, silk rope (50 ft.), waterskin, rations (2), Oil (1 pint), Bedroll, compass, acid flask
Just checking: the items in the back of the book are fair game, as long as they're my level or lower, and not uncommon/rare. Right?
Finally, don't read too much in my gameplay post. Just poking some fun at the lack of any class equipment kits like we in the past. Or a hygiene kit. Picking equipment was actually my least favourite part of character creation, and nearly took longer than all the rest, as well.
Having missed the window this morning to compare equipment, I will add here that likely the only significant additions Jorgon can offer are chalk, more rope, and another minor healing potion that he hopes not to need (plus of course thieves' tools though he wouldn't discuss those).
Forums seem to have trouble at the moment. I could read the gameplay updates earlier today and had a post typed out, but the forum failed when I tried to post. Too late today to reach up and redo my post. Will catch up tomorrow morning.
I know the site has been flaky for the last day or two. It's still running quite slowly for me this morning. I recommend copying your text before you try to make a post. Here's hoping things will stabilize soon!
My very sincere apologies for being absent for all this time. Between anniversary, travel, and the site crashes I haven't been able to participate so far but I hope that it's not too late for me to join in. I've set up a profile for the Kyra pregen and have dotted and deleted in the gameplay thread to add her to the mix. I'll now go ahead and get caught up on the story and chime in as soon as I've done that. Sorry again and thanks for your understanding.
That's totally fine, you can jump in. We haven't actually done anything yet except talking and gaining info. Feel free to pretend you've been with the group all along, if you like.
Well, it has been a couple of frustrating days, likely for everyone involved, as access has been dodgy to non-existent. Thankfully it finally looks like I can access and post again and I am hoping that will continue to be the case.
Now, on with our adventure! :-)
Word is that it may be a couple more days of this as they fix the issues so make sure to copy everything before posting in case it crashes.
Well at least the downtime gave me some more opportunity to read through the rulebook. I also discovered Cain gets access to another feat at lvl 1. He can use intimidate with just a glare. Feat is called Intimidating Glare.
Whew, it's a relief to be able to see the forums and post again!
I'll need a little time to get my head back in order and test the waters... make sure the site will really stay up this time...
Traveling with family to vacation all day tomorrow and was just in a car accident. We are all ok but shaken up. Will be Sunday or Monday before I can post and will likely be erratic for the next week.
Oh no! Yes, do take care, and all the time you need.
Hello everyone.
I am glad to hear you are ok though wish there had been no car accident to start with.
I hope everyone else is doing well.
I am in the middle of some very busy packing and cleaning in preparation for moving the last couple of days this month. Next weekend I will also be at a convention. I expect through it all that I will still manage to check in a couple of times each day but please feel free to bot me if needed. I am afraid I don't have botting instructions up yet. If I can, I will work on that.
I am glad to that you are ok.
That's rough. Glad that you're all OK, though. Take your time...
Oh wow, that is crazy. I'm happy everyone is well and hope things go smoothly with all the accident stuff you all will have to deal with.
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Sorry for the delay! And thanks for your patience, everyone. The site seems to be stable at the moment (fingers crossed!) I'll try to keep posting updates regularly so we can keep moving. I highly recommend saving your text before you post anything, just in case.
We'll shortly be going onto a map, so I've added it as the first slide. Please place your tokens in the order you'd like to be marching. The arrow on the left side indicates where you'll be entering.
Not sure how to go about placing a token on the map. As indicated in the Gameplay thread, Jorgon would be next to the trap, wherever that is.
I have transitioned to my laptop for about the next week as the move progresses. Unfortunately, that makes it a little more difficult for me to see things on the map, my apologies if I miss anything. I am also without internet except when at the hotel but will try to keep up with reading and posting.
To put a token on the map, you can right-click on the forum avatar, select 'copy image' and then just paste it onto the slide. And then resize to make it fit the squares of the map. If you can't get it to work on your laptop, you can say where you'd like to be in the marching order and I can put the token there for you.
The pit trap you just disabled is actually off the left side of the map. You hadn't moved onto this map until Fazgyn left.
That's a really clever trick, never thought about that. I always used to make a screen shot, paste it in paint and then crop my avatar out. Feels kind of dumb now... :*)
I placed it where there seemed to be a gap waiting for me. I am happy to adjust if others desire.
Jorgan can either stealth as a scout or stay close to the front to deal with traps etc while letting someone else with better perception take the lead.
I'm back. Let's hope the site is a bot more stable from now on, because it's really hard for me to find a decent posting rhythm like this.
I hear you. It's been a rough couple of weeks in Paizo-land, but I appreciate you all hanging in there with me.
Full disclosure: Given the recent situation, we have not progressed as far through play as I had expected before GMing this scenario at a convention this weekend.
Jorgon will, from now, participate less in some of the decision making but will still happily support the party in all things.
Wow, first combat and we already have a crit strike, crit failure strike and maybe a crit skill check!
Haha, we don't even need the 10-above/below critical rules, when everybody rolls 1s and 20s!
It doesn't appear that there is an option for Tumbling past an enemy, only to Tumble through an enemy's square. Anyone see something different?
That is my understanding as well, Cain. I think with AoO being less common the tumble past was removed as an action.
Oh wow I see that it is indeed a ton less common... only fighters seem to be able to use AoO's on that kind of movement (at least at low levels).
So I'm noticing an issue in PbP for the 'succeed by 10 = critical success' stuff. Mainly on an attack as the PC's don't know the AC of their enemy, they won't know when to roll double damage. Thus the GM has to say 'oh hey that was a crit roll damage again' and now we have several extra posts which means more delays. Not a huge thing sure, but still an annoyance when combat is hard enough to keep flowing.
You're right. In this case, I might have added a line to add the critical damage, in case it was needed. Or the GM can roll for extra damage when applicable.
Yeah, that makes sense. I will probably roll it as the GM in those cases. Good suggestion!
That's basically what I was thinking as well. If I'm a player I might include extra crit damage if I see a high number, in case it's needed. (That's not really different from what we do with 1st edition PF, when you roll to confirm a crit but aren't sure whether it's a crit or not.)
If I'm a GM and a player crits without adding the extra damage I would roll it for them. The fact that you just roll twice and add all the modifiers, bonuses, and penalties again makes it easy to copy the roll.
Reminder to self: for effects that use saving throws instead of attack rolls, you double or halve the result rather than changing the number of dice rolled. I know I've read that paragraph on page 293 a bunch of times and it makes sense, but somehow I keep forgetting.