[GM School] Into the Unknown: Station (Inactive)

Game Master Lysle

A place to discuss.

Welcome all! I believe that every player has posted (4 correct?).

I usually provide post-rate expectations for the (few) games I have run so far, but as this is a bit of a different beast (and I don't want to get too far ahead), I will just say that, unless I hear otherwise, I will give you all a little more time to interact/roleplay before I have the VC arrive for the briefing, which will be sometime between late tonight (I am on US East Coast time) and late Sunday (whenever kids/wife/life/etc. permits). My weekday schedule is more regular, but weekends (particularly over the summer) tend to be more unpredictable).

Again, welcome and I look forward to playing with you all!

Figuring out a group's pacing is difficult. Since we are all learning and we are awaiting map instructions, I will give everyone another day for any questions to the Venture-Captain, then I will move us along.

If I am moving too slowly (or too fast for that matter), please let me know here or (should you prefer) via PM, and I will do my best to be accommodating.

If you had been waiting for me sorry about that. This weekend turned busier than expected.

Not a problem. I figured the weekend would be busy and we haven't discussed a post-rate expectation. I tend to run my games fast, but I know that that is not the case for everyone. I just want to make sure everyone has a chance to chime in after the briefing. I also don't anyone to feel they are being rushed.

Often, I will follow the "rule of two", that is, if two PCs agree with an action, I will assume the entire party is going along with it. However, for briefings, I try to give everyone an opportunity to respond as I think it important for all the PCs to know the mission parameters and/or seek clarification of them and it assures everyone they have involvement from the get go.

If I don't hear from K'zict earlier, then I will move us along to Downlow tomorrow morning (US East Coast time).

This Scenario is Strange in this regard but it has been Clarified by Thurston that may use the Welcome to Starfinder boon as well as be able to receive credit for the faction they are championing as if they did slot these boons.

Thanks for the clarification GM Poblano. I had missed that!

So, general SFS question - Do we have re-rolls? Is my Pathfinder shirt or character folio or goblin plushie good in SFS?

As stated in the Gameplay thread, I have paused the game to consider the following ruling:

Intimidate Ruling Explanation

I am ruling that the demoralize attempt by Morroda has no effect on Exegara, as she is undead. Sorry, Morroda.

Undead are immune to mind-affecting effects. While the Intimidate skill in Starfinder does not expressly state that it is a mind-affecting effect, its description suggests that it is, as it states that the skill "can rattle your foes", which indicates a rattling of mind rather than body.

There is historical precedence for this ruling in Pathfinder, in which the Pathfinder FAQ expressly states "Intimidate, in particular, is a mind-affecting fear effect". While I recognize that Starfinder is a different game than Pathfinder, I think the two similar enough that the FAQ is instructive. I have not found any similar

Finally, I believe that the ruling provides a more dramatic effect, as it is an interesting "reveal" for the true nature of the cloaked figure. Therefore, this is my ruling.
I agree that there are reasonable arguments for ruling that Intimidate is not a mind-affecting effect. I am willing to pause the game to consider your reasoning and any helpful sources you want me to review. Likewise, I have no problem if you wish to seek an opinion from a Venture officer before we continue.

I am pausing the game for, at least, 24 hours to allow time for anyone who wishes to 1) provide a reasoned explanation with any links/references to other sources as to why my ruling should be set aside or 2) seek an opinion by a venture officer.

If there are no objections, then I will proceed with the game after the 24-hour pause. If I am informed that there are no objections from the players in less than 24 hours, then I will proceed with the game as soon as reasonably possible. If there are objections, then we will pause the game until they have been resolved.

I will add that that imho it certainly should not work against mindless undead, but undead with a mind might be a different story. To me, having a mind means being able to have both hopes and "fears". Not sure that helped any. :)

I could not have said this better myself. I intentionally tried something I know cannot work to see how you would handle it as a GM. The reason is we are here to learn about GMing in PbP and what are the best ways to handle situations such as these when they come up.

Mind you I did not due this in an attempt to be a mean player or GM I only seek to create an opportunity to gauge how you would handle this situation and to present a teaching/learning opportunity for everyone.

Great Job Lysle ^-^

Kudos to you!!

Side Note: I am a Venture-Lieutenant if this helps.

Side Note: I am a Venture-Lieutenant if this helps.

Thanks, Gary. Looks like we got our venture officer opinion after all!

Accordingly, I will take this game off pause.

Just a heads up: I’ll be out of town starting tomorrow until Saturday or Sunday. I should be able to post from my phone occasionally, but I almost definitely won’t be able to edit maps.

Also, I am currently on vacation until the end of the week. I do have access to my laptop and phone, however, I will be posting sporadically. I know this really puts us in a pickle as I am GMing the next section, but I promise I will get something up. I just may be slower to reply.

My Apologies GM Valen for my Absence. I have had IRL issues pop up since Thursday last week.

Everyone thank you for understanding in my absence.

GM Valen looks like we are coming to a close here. Great Job GMing now everyone if you please will, per direction from GM Redelia previously if you could look over the thread and give two instances where you thought GM Valen did good Job and one where they could improve.

I'll start first.

During the situation I created GM Valen you did a fantastic job with halting gameplay and explaining to players why you ruled the way you did.

Displaying all the Ability rolls available for all players was good too.

Now I may suggest, although this is personal opinion but, you could try nesting your spoiler tags like such

Thanks GM Poblano Pepper! I wasn't aware that I could do that with the spoilers-in-spoilers.

And thank you all for a fun game. I enjoy playing those particular PCs and you guys provided some fun and thoughtful interaction to play off of. Thanks again!

I look forward to joining you on the other side of the table. I just need to pick my PC. At the moment, I am still debating between playing Iseph or putting my idea for a brand-new Witchwyrd operative into play.

I will echo what GM Poblano Pepper said. I really like how you handled the questionable rules call. I like how you allowed everyone to weigh in and then get another authorities opinion if we desired.

As for a point to work on, I feel like I am at a disadvantage here. This is the second time I am playing through this quest with you and you were my first introduction to SFS and Starfinder in general. I really do not find any fault with how you handled this game or the previous one. In fact, you may find, in the next section, me drawing on some of what I learned from you.

Pros:

I liked that you linked the pic of the Venture Captain, even though I did not see it in the scenario. Cudos for hunting that down and including it.

I liked that you allowed the computer roll for culture since we have access to the stations "internet".

Combat seemed efficient and did not lag.

Suggestions:

More color. I would have loved some description of the trip from the meeting room to the pawn show. Unsure where that would be but I hope there are more details about the different areas of the station somewhere.

I may be the only one, but I did not like pausing the game. You made the right call. I am not sure that the pause was needed.

Might have been fun to interact more at the end with the ysoki. Instead the reward was handled in boxed text. I was not aware of them until the very end. I guess maybe we should have researched the place more.

Conclusion: I had fun and learned some about SFS and GMing. Win. :)

Thanks GMDamonLuos and Rig!

I know no one asked for my thoughts, but I can't help but share a few anyways on a few subjects you both touched on:

The "Call"
With regard to the questionable rules call, if I were in a face-to-face game or running a table where I knew most or all of the players (or at least had played with them a few times), I most likely wouldn't have paused the game and may have, instead, just adjudicated it and PM'd the player with my explanation with an invitation for, him or her, to seek a Venture Officer if they thought it necessary.

However, because posting is such an imperfect format for conveying emotion and intent and because I was running a game via PbP with people don't know the players (including their rules knowledge and their sensitivities) and, if I am honest, in this case, because I knew that the "teacher" was watching, I generally try to err on the side of being overly careful that I get a ruling correct and give those involved an opportunity to respond.

If I felt wronged, I would want an opportunity to respond and be heard.

Also, I want to have players in future games and I am new to GMing here, so I think it worth, even if it may be a little "overboard" perhaps, to let my current players (and future players) know that I try to be fair, honest, and open.

Furthermore, in my practice of law and also through experience, I realize how past publications (letters, emails, posts, etc.) can always be found, reread, and someday re-published or otherwise shown around to people (some I may know, some I may not, some I may meet in the future) by someone (someone I may know, someone I may not know, someone I may meet in the future). So, with that in mind, I try to be reasonably careful with everything that I post so that it does not bring me regret in the future.

That all being said, if the issue had come up in a game that wasn't Organized Play, I would have most likely have just made the call and moved on, perhaps only offering an explanation if one were requested. When playing just for fun, life is too short to waste quibbling over rules unless there is a good reason.

Drawing on What Other GMs Already Did
DO THIS! Don't waste time trying to be creative or inventive, but steal often and liberally. I'd bet everything that you liked about this quest and the prior time I ran had been stolen from other GMs. Even the "Call"--pausing the game, requesting feedback/objections, inviting intervention by an venture officer--all came either from a game I was posting in, in which the game was paused to allow for a venture officer to intervene, or a discussion in another thread I had read about how another GM in a prior GM school handled the death of a PC, or both. I figure I won't worry too much about being original or presenting information exactly as prior GMs have done. Where I get to be creative is in response to the creativity of the players. Don't worry, they'll ask that question that no one else did (about the value of a skull) or come up with that solution the scenario doesn't contemplate, etc. - That is where you can truly let your creativity and skill as GM shine. Until those times, I suggest you steal, steal steal!

Color
I am a big "color" guy too and try to include as much as I can in my games. That is why I used the picture of the Arvin as I think visual aids really help with the imaginative portion of the experience. However, I will note that it the visuals have a downside. I have found that using too many can be confusing to some players. Also, continuously adding visuals slows down the loading time for some (although this can be remedied by putting up separate links for visuals, maps, etc., but this too has downside of requiring more time).

As far as descriptions, I'll admit that an earlier time I ran this quest, I did add some "color" around Downlow even though the quest is silent on it. I even added a nuar street vendor for them to interact with who offered them some unusual food choices. However, I got the sense that the players were a little bored, eager to get on with the quest, so I quickly dispensed with it and placed them in the Vat Garden. It is important to gage your players, which is even tougher to do via PbP. Some like the detail, some (more than I thought based on some other games) prefer to do without it.

The prewritten scenarios for SFS are of professional quality and a lot of thought is put into them. The creators have already thought about the scenes and places to places to add sufficient color while still moving the narrative ahead. While I prefer more immersive role-playing, I think it better to error on the side of limiting "scenes" to those in the scenario, allowing the PCs imaginations to fill in the rest (unless the party seems really eager to play up these "in-between times") and keep the PCs wishing they had spent more time in the gameworld rather than growing bored within it.

Scenario Ending
The end of the scenario was quite a bit more abrupt than I would normally have done, but I was getting a sense that I was taking too long and that I should wrap up the quest, particularly so that the other "students" would get a chance to run their quests. So, I erred on the side of a quick wrap up. That being said, I have been surprised in most of the games I have GMed on these boards (admittedly, not that many) how eager players seem to be to wrap up after the last combat. I don't know if it is tedium ("just glad to be done"), or tactics ("checked all the boxes for the chronicle"), or turnaround ("done in time to play this PC in the next game I signed up for"), or terrible GMing ("glad to be done with that guy!"). Nevertheless, I've been surprised to see it, particularly from players whose PCs were very much engaged in prior portions of the scenario.

Well, there you go. Thank you both again for your feedback and for really getting me thinking. Far more than I planned to write in response. Certainly more than anyone has asked for! More than you may have wanted in a response from me, but these are my thoughts anyways.

Thank you for explaining further on your experience Valen I appreciate your candor on this and explanation. You will be a great PbP GM.

If you would be kind enough to mark this Thread as inactive to help clear out our Campaign threads I would appreciate it. Thank you.