So, y'know how sometimes a character grows a mind of their own an goes a different direction than you'd intended? I think Nox is doing that to me. I'd intended worship of Apsu to just be a background detail (I mean, who's a good-aligned Kobold supposed to worship, if not the god of good dragons?) but it really started growing on me when I wrote the background, and now I think I'm going to rebuild him as a Celestial Hunter instead of a vanilla Hunter and play up the reluctant holy warrior aspect, going around doing good deeds because it's right, not because he enjoys it. Definitely not a paladin, though. "Bunch of stuck up holier-than-thou jerks, with their rules and regulations. Hah! Just go do the right think and quit fretting about doing it the right way." Whoops, sorry. Yeah.
If anyone wants to be part of the party that redeemed my character and the GM wants to link backgrounds to make party formation easier... :)
GM, any word on my question about a "venerably aged" android? I'm guessing it was lost under the more encompassing question about Psionics, and I'm not sure if I want to stick with that concept, but it strikes me as an intriguing possibility.
@Loup Blanc: I swear I thought I answered. An aged android is totally OK.
Loving the submissions so far! I can tell it will be hard to choose!
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I'll have to get mine completed quick sharp then!
This guy is looking less and less like a Busker the more I do; simply because the Flame Dancer seems so much more appropriate. I'll miss the free haste, but he's already getting more attacks than he has swords...
Anyhoo, would he theoretically be able to do Perform(Percussion) based on clanging swords together? Probably wouldn't get the Masterwork Instrument bonus though.
EDIT: Aaggh no Busker is the thing that gives me one of the juggling abilities. DECISIONS. Probably going to go for that then.
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If anyone wants to be part of the party that redeemed my character and the GM wants to link backgrounds to make party formation easier... :)
Would be cool to link backgrounds and since im a follower of Iomedae i could be party to your turning. But I just question why you would still worship an NE deity if you renounced your ways...
He didn't renounce them completely, obviously. He's true neutral, still one step from his deity, and still completely onboard with the whole gunpowder and electricity thing. You don't have to be evil to worship an evil deity.
@Nitro-Nina: Yes, it's not hurting anyone if you do. No Masterwork bonus, though. About crafting, for each crafting feat you can use up to 15.000 gp from the 120.000 starting ones to craft items. This way, if you have Scribe Scrolls, you can start with 105.000 gp of items and 30.000 gps worth of scrolls.
Just... too... tempting... OK, I've gotta throw an ancient hag into the ring for consideration.
A rocky outcropping takes up a good chunk of the escarpment and holds a rough cave entrance that is blocked with a stout, rough-cut, wooden door showing gaps at the top and bottom. Smoke issues from the top gap along with a little light and the smell of alder smoke. A modest stripe of moss along the bank surrounds a path of river-rounded stepping stones that leads towards the door.
If one were brave enough to knock on that door... The ancient door creaks open and a wave of alder smoke strikes. Along with the smoke is a fetid reek, one that would cause a genteel visitor to gag. And a tall man would have to stoop to enter the home. This house is well and truly a rough-hewn and arched cave, no more than 15' at its widest and stretching straight back into the hillside approximately 30'. At the far back is a wider semi-circular chamber with a stone bench carved out of the wall on three sides. At the furthest extreme is a hearth and cauldron at a low boil. An old woman kicks at the fire and sorts through a messy shelf for ingredients to add to the brew. She pays her visitors little mind as they advance... which is not an easy task.
Walking from the doorway to the back chamber is an obstacle course. Visitors step over and around collections of skins, bones, plants, rocks, and small barrels filled with Gods-know-what. All the while they must brush aside or avoid hanging meats, bunches of drying herbs, and an impressive collection of taxidermied and preserved animals suspended from the cave roof in action poses. A seagull in flight stares down, its mouth open to screech. Overseeing the cave and blending in perfectly with the taxidermied beasts is a large, rough-feathered raven with a well-scarred beak and disconcertingly intelligent eyes.
Mahb's appalling looks and questionable hygiene are only improved (slightly) by the mystical tattoos dotting her body. If she rolled up a soiled sleeve, exposing her nearly fleshless bicep, Mahb's favorite and roughest tattoo would be seen. In Draconic, the text reads "Born to Ride" underlined by a crude silhouette of a broom in flight.
Age: 80 (Venerable)
Size: Medium, 5'4", 120 lbs
Type: Humanoid (Human)
Disability: Slow Reactions
In her 50's, when Mahb assumed (incorrectly) she was at the height of her powers, she chose to make a name for herself... in the hope that she'd gain the public acceptance that has always eluded her. She moved into a large town, plied her trade openly, and displayed her mastery over the elements and the forces of life and death. And it worked. Mahb became the go-to person for all manner of local troubles. Plague of Rotting Flesh? Stemmed. Ghoul invasion? Wiped out. Necromancer raising an army of the town's dead? Sent to Hell. Portal to the Abyss opened? Consider it shut... And then there were all the usual ailments that wound up at Mahb's door: garden variety poisoning, diseases, unwanted pregnancies, and infections.
Mahb was lauded and respected... but not liked, except by the few people that could overcome their prejudices to her profession, her looks, or her sharp tongue. There was also a downside of fame. All the wizards, witches, paladins, priests, and witch-hunters that wanted to make their bones by besting a famous witch. She spared a few, but most wound up as notches on her broomstick. And then there were the irritating suck-ups: the less skilled witches, green hags, and night hags that wanted Mahb to join their covens, instruct them, help them rule the world... yada yada yada. Mahb was an 'old school' witch, accumulating knowledge and power by working alone. Covens were for the weak who couldn't stand on their own. The harmless sycophants she brushed off - none too politely - and the evil ones she destroyed. And it would be fair to say she sometimes mistook one group for the other.
The bloom was off the rose for her. Fame was a trap and had brought her no closer to the acceptance she wanted. Noting her own folly with a cackle, Mahb returned to where she began... moving back to the deep forests, swamps, and small isolated villages. Now, one would think that fame would pursue her as some of her deeds were indeed sung of by bards. But when you have Mahb's temperament and alarming willingness to curse bards with lifelong poxes, fumbletongue, or other career-ending disfigurements... the wise quickly made a point of forgetting the lays of Mahb. And so she vanished from history and her deeds were ascribed to other witches.
For the last score of years, Mahb has lived in her cave and stalked the nearby forest and swamp to make her living - foraging for rare mushrooms and fungi for sale... and more interesting uses. She is careful to hide the true measure of her skills from the local villagers. She visits infrequently and only to trade her foraged goods for necessities. She is tolerated but draws unfriendly glances when she isn't shunned. The stupider children throw rocks and mock her... until those same children contract disgusting ailments which vanish overnight once they apologize to the crazy old woman.
Mahb does, however, fill a niche role in the community which keeps them from driving her out. She is an herbalist, quite knowledgeable (in a crusty sort of way), and a solver of personal issues that townsfolk don't want to tell their neighbors or pastor about.
Need a boy or girl to fall in love with you? See Mahb.
Got an embarrassing rash that your wife doesn't need to hear about? See Mahb.
The old merchant wants his virility to match that of younger men so he can keep his young wife happy? See Mahb.
The old merchant's young wife wants a sleeping draught for her hubby so the mice can play? See Mahb.
The Headman's unmarried daughter gets tumbled by the local romeo and now fears what might be growing in her belly? See Mahb.
Mahb's familiar is a Consular Imp. He will almost exclusively stay in raven form until I find a funny moment for his 'reveal'. Mahb and Pyewacket have a love/hate relationship. He works for her patron so he clearly isn't your typical imp. However, he does try to nudge her toward evil acts to more match his alignment... and potentially give him the opportunity to drag her soul to Hell when she dies. Mahb is aware of this but, as an older person who knows about the failings of all people, she is a lot more tolerant of his agenda.
My largest purchase (a bit over half the budget) is the Private Palanquin. It appears as an old two-wheel tumbril powered by an invisible mule... at least that is the lie that Mahb maintains. :) I'm doing this just for the fun of the idea. If the game isn't going to involve overland adventuring, I'd like to change that out. Or, if you think for play balance, I'd be better off spending that money on more 'useful' items, I could change that.
It might seem counter-intuitive but I gave her Sense Motive as her Signature Skill. The idea is most of Mahb's customers come to her not wanting to discuss their needs so she is adept at 'reading' people to save time on cutting to the chase since she isn't tolerant of people hemming and hawing.
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If anyone wants a character tie in, there´s plenty of room with Zeno of the golden Path for joint adventures in the past.
This sounds awesome. Thinking about doing a Master Roshi type. He has maintained his physique but at the detriment of other things (Heart Condition, Bleary Eyes, and Degraded Mental Faculties). Pretty beastly for 3 rounds and then throws his back out or something. Looking at Path of War for this. Want to do a martial artist but we'll see.
I'm working on an Intimidate debuffer Dread (DSP):
Sort of an "If you'd seen half the things I've seen..." half-Orc
Don't know if it's been asked, but how are we calculating HP? Max first then half HD+1 thereafter?
Yes, Max then 1/2 HD+1.
@Mahb: Sounds nice! White-haired Witch os alright, considering the witch's low BAB and the lack of hexes I don't think it'll be too strong. For the palanquin we'll have to see which module or modules we'll play after the team is chosen. Sense Motive seems a bit of a stretch, since it's not even a Witch class skill.
@Zayne Iwatani: I'm happy that you like it, however it's likely that Path of War won't be an option. Might I suggest a Kensai Magus, the closest thing I can think of?
@Gavmania: Yes, precisely.
@GM: Would it be okay, or even helpful, if some people want to let open the possibility of linked backgrounds? Basically, my character was "redeemed" by a certain party, so it'd be perfectly possible that another of the PCs was in such party in the past (this would give us an excuse to be partying again together). Of course, if any of the PCs weren't picked, we just would ignore this link
@Harbaestus: It's surely OK! It doesn't give an increased chance to be picked or to be picked together, however.
Duke Vars is a long serving member of the Pathfinder Society, he could have bumped into pretty much any other member the way they mix and match teams.
@GM: Would it be okay, or even helpful, if some people want to let open the possibility of linked backgrounds? Basically, my character was "redeemed" by a certain party, so...
LOL. Don't look at me, pal. Mahb isn't in the redemption biz. :)
No, Mahb, I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to my character, posted yesterday.
Another question as I'm building: by allowing Psionics, are we allowed to use anything from Psionics Unle-ashed/Psionics Expanded? Specifically I'm looking at the Deadly Agility feat, which would open up some options, but it isn't strictly speaking "psionics."
Still working on background and a few items but here is my submission, Paccino the once famous sword and board fighter who lost his hand when his shield was sundered by a giant.
@Zayne Iwatani: I'm happy that you like it, however it's likely that Path of War won't be an option. Might I suggest a Kensai Magus, the closest thing I can think of?
How likely? Cause I really want to try out the high level maneuvers.
@Loup Blanc: It's a feat in exchange for a +1 weapon quality, not unlike Improved Critical and keen, so I don't see why not.
@Zayne Iwatani: Really likely, sorry. Although they could be flavorfully appropriate for an old master, I feel that they are a mechanical nightmare to balance against other classes, especially in a non-standard game like this one.
@Zayne Iwatani: Really likely, sorry. Although they could be flavorfully appropriate for an old master, I feel that they are a mechanical nightmare to balance against other classes, especially in a non-standard game like this one.
Yeah they would. Got my hopes up. I would do a monk but Hayato Ken already made one and its pretty strong. 5 attacks for 3d6+12 per hit. Would you mind if I built something anyway to see how he would compare to others?
@Zayne Iwatani: Build anything you like, any way you like, as long as backstories aren't exactly the same. I have absolutely no regard for party balance, so go wild.
Also, you can check out Spheres of Power if you're looking for a different, more flexible magic system. Especially good for spontaneous casters.
That 3d6 is wrong. Seems to be a mistake by herolab. Should be only 2d6 for a small character i think. Need to correct that.
I meant built something from Path of War to see how it compares to other submissions. If you still think it needs down grading, I'll try again as a monk. I have seen nothing on other forums to suggest that they need re-balancing. They are head and shoulders above all the pure martial classes, yes, but they're still mostly only good at just hitting things. Casters are still the top. And the -6/+4 to all physical/mental stats is going to extend that lead.
That's one of the reasons why I used a prestige class that cuts down on my casting. Losing 4 levels of spellcasting in exchange for some interesting abilities should keep be from going too quadratic. I feel I'm a good balance for 15th level.
This...this is awesome. Dotting for now, but I'm almost certainly submitting a master archer or gunslinger whose sight has gone all to hell. Still deadly...up close.
Dot - have a submission in elsewhere, trying to keep my number of pbps low as I get back into it...
Will be submitting here if that falls through though
@Zayne Iwatani: Ok, you can build it, then I'll see. No guarantees, however.
New aging disadvantage! Other than Cloudy Eyed, you can be completely blind, but get blindsight 10' and blindsense 60', as well as all the disadvantages of blindness (except the Acrobatics check to move).
Oh man, playing a totally blind character is so tempting. I've always wanted to do that... but I'm also really into this android concept I've got going. Right now it's mainly coming down to if I want to go with a Dexterity-based kensai or a heavily armored battlemage (magus as the base class, of course)...
Maybe an answer to a question will help me decide: How extensive are the free feats you offer? To use my particular example, if I take Weapon Focus, obviously I'll get Greater Weapon Focus when I reach the prerequisites. But do I also get Weapon Specialization (and Greater) for free, or do I need to take another feat there? I'm happy to do so, just making sure I've got things properly figured out for the build.
EDIT: Rolling for myself for max age if I decide to go with a long-lived race other than android. (Unless you as GM would want to do that, or just hand-wave it.)
@Mahb: Sense Motive seems a bit of a stretch, since it's not even a Witch class skill.
Righto. I've changed that to a more conventional feat choice. Aside from spending some more cash (most likely on buying additional spells for my familiar), Mahb is done.
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I'm going to have to dot in here; I love this concept. I need more time to flesh this out, but I'm thinking a health and fitness nut who walks miles a day and eats a perfect diet to maintain a wiry physique. Probably a rogue or ranger (a nimble kind of class) or a faith-based class of a nature deity (the inspiration for all this clean living).
What would you think of a dementia drawback to offset a -6 that produces a confusion-like effect under certain circumstances? I'm thinking triggers are at the start of stressful situations (start of combat and/or GM discretion) or after making certain class-specific skill checks that require particular focus (DD for rogue, for example). We'd want to write a "dementia" table inspired by confusion, but with forgetful effects (take 1 rd to remember what you're doing, wander your move speed in a random direction; something along those lines) replacing the attack effects (i.e. no attacking self or friends).
I'll be back tomorrow with a more detailed build; let me know if dementia sounds like something that will work.
@Loup Blanc: You'd need to get Weapon Specialization: the only cases when you'd get feats with a name other than "Improved/Greater Something" is with style feats or those dealing with a situational mechanic (like Disheartening Display from Dazzling Display, given how common fear immunity is).
For age, you're free to start as old as you want.
@Yas392: Exactly. However, your attunement bonus and weapon special qualities stack, unlike ABP.
@Zin Z'Arin: It could be done, however it could be a major gameplay drawback. If you're prepared to deal with it, I'll make up a table.
@Yas392: At level 15 you have weapon attunement +4. With the standard rules, to use a keen weapon, you would sacrifice part of your bonus, leaving you with a +3 keen weapon.
With my houseruling, you would instead have a +4 keen weapon.
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We could handle the "overpowered" dementia disadvantage a few ways:
- rule that it offsets two or three -6 penalties instead of just one
- adjust the percentage ranges in the table and/or the triggers so that the effect is less likely to occur
- modify the effects of the dementia to be less significant
- some combination of the above
One idea:
At start of combat or when using "key" class skill or ability, roll %. If 20 or less, lose one round of action (in combat) or can't use skill/ability (mind blanks). If roll 91 or higher, gain circumstance bonus (+2? +5?) on attack roll or skill/ability (moment of clarity with perfect recall to a useful situational memory). The less-frequent bonus helps offset the penalty somewhat. This would require no table, simplifying the effect somewhat. We'd have to work out which skill(s) and or class ability would be considered the "key" skill/ability that can trigger the dementia (class by class basis).
@Zayne Iwatani: Ok, you can build it, then I'll see. No guarantees, however.
Whoop Whoop. I'll make him so cool you have to let him in. Also, the above dementia thing sounds fun. So many old man martial artists though.
Just thought of a disadvantage.
Bad back: Each round you take a standard or full round action in combat, there is a 15% (adjustable) chance you might throw out your back. If you do, the next round you are staggered and take -4 penalty to attack and damage rolls. If you do attack, roll again. If you fail, you are paralyzed for 1d4+1 rounds.
That one sounds too close to reality.
I meant built something from Path of War to see how it compares to other submissions. If you still think it needs down grading, I'll try again as a monk. I have seen nothing on other forums to suggest that they need re-balancing. They are head and shoulders above all the pure martial classes, yes, but they're still mostly only good at just hitting things. Casters are still the top. And the -6/+4 to all physical/mental stats is going to extend that lead.
It's not about "pure power"; it's about game systems. PoW characters tend to be as powerful as ordinary martial classes, but then someone came along and added 9 levels of spells to them. The big problem is the arms race; in a PoW game, it's hard to justify an ordinary martial, and some of us *want* to be able to punch things without having to plan out reading an entire spell book and planning out dozens of spells before each combat.
Also, no. Martial characters are, at every level, by far the most dangerous characters if you build them that way. Normally there's a tradeoff between power and versatility, but PoW let you completely ignore weaknesses in your ability scores, feats, etc. by patching them over with automatic versatility, which makes it feel less appropriate for a game where weaknesses are specifically supposed to be hard to patch over.
I meant built something from Path of War to see how it compares to other submissions. If you still think it needs down grading, I'll try again as a monk. I have seen nothing on other forums to suggest that they need re-balancing. They are head and shoulders above all the pure martial classes, yes, but they're still mostly only good at just hitting things. Casters are still the top. And the -6/+4 to all physical/mental stats is going to extend that lead.It's not about "pure power"; it's about game systems. PoW characters tend to be as powerful as ordinary martial classes, but then someone came along and added 9 levels of spells to them. The big problem is the arms race; in a PoW game, it's hard to justify an ordinary martial, and some of us *want* to be able to punch things without having to plan out reading an entire spell book and planning out dozens of spells before each combat.
Also, no. Martial characters are, at every level, by far the most dangerous characters if you build them that way. Normally there's a tradeoff between power and versatility, but PoW let you completely ignore weaknesses in your ability scores, feats, etc. by patching them over with automatic versatility, which makes it feel less appropriate for a game where weaknesses are specifically supposed to be hard to patch over.
Yeah. No. I ain't biting that bait. DM made the call to let me try and he will again when I am done. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't turn him against the whole concept before I have had a chance to even build him.
...Avoiding the topic of Path of War and that, I will ask about the avoidance of min-maxing in this game. It's a kind of loose term that I've seen used for everything from "I don't like that option" to "Anything other than the most powerful choices are okay," and while I don't think I'm getting too far into it in this game, I'm also building competent and capable heroes who've survived to their old age by virtue of their abilities.
I suppose it comes down to what flies versus what doesn't. I've been sort of statting two builds: an android kensai magus, and a tiefling drunken master of many styles (monk). Each has their upsides and downsides, with the monk coming out on top in defenses but the magus having a good deal more offensive output (as magi will). I don't think they're horrendous by any means, but I wanted to check that I'm not going too far.
The android kensai has a Charisma of 2: base 10, -2 from race, -6 from Old Age. Charisma does absolutely nothing for him, even less than Strength (which gives him carrying capacity if nothing else), so I see no reason to worry about it; in fact, I'm planning to run with it as a roleplaying aspect, where he's lost track of considering himself a single entity and more refers to a long-forgotten organization, or his capacity as a bodyguard/murder-bot. He's built with a fairly standard magus loadout, albeit with a little more defense than usual, and I wouldn't consider him minmaxed, but the 2 Charisma is something I could see being a concern. (It's also the only ability penalty from aging he has, since he's also got a degraded memory and weak legs from tons of time sitting stagnant--and I'm throwing out most of what I've read about android fluff, because I don't like it and I think this game is a neat opportunity for something different.)
Likewise, the monk has a Strength of 4. I'm not pulling guided weapon shenanigans (since you asked), but going the Dexterity-focused route with Deadly Agility has made him a very defensive character, as well as an offense that isn't too shabby (although not orthodox in its strength). He's definitely built with a purpose in mind, and built to perform that purpose well: the allowance of free progression through Style feats has been used to a large extent, and he has a lot of tricks at his disposal. He's also blind and has no liver to speak of, anymore, but hey, what do you expect of a guy who's been fueling his ki with booze for hundreds of years?
I'm not posting this as a request for feedback or consideration of builds or anything, just checking to see what would be considered min-maxing, since it's not a very well-defined concept and I'd hate to go through the whole build only to find out it needs to change! (I'm also leaning more toward the android at the moment, because there are a few monks already and I've got more background ideas cooking.)
Very much with the dotting here. Thinking of building an aether/air kineticist, who spent his whole adult life moving everything with his mind and flying everywhere, so his muscles have all atrophied from lack of use. A few questions:
1) How does ABP work with kinetic blasts, since they are treated as weapons but are not actual weapons?
2) With Weak Legs, does the reduction to all movement speed apply to magical movement, like the fly spell (which, full discloser, air kineticists can get at will)? I'm fine if it does, just not sure what the in-game justification would be, since the fly speed isn't based on your existing movement speed at all.
3) Are you allowing VMC? I saw someone mention it in the thread, but I didn't catch a ruling on it anywhere.