GM Granta's AP Planning

Game Master Granta

I did some math for myself because I was pretty skeptical. I took the above formula, made a set of percentages to hit and ran them through for full, -5, and -10 BAB attacks.

I came to these conclusions (and I don't know if I used the write words to explain the outcomes):

On a full BAB attack, improved critical has a higher DPR if you need to roll an 8 or higher to hit (IC is better than WF).

On your second iterative, improved critical has a higher DPR more than weapon focus if you need to roll a 14 or higher to hit (IC is worse than WF).

On your third iterative, improved critical has a higher DPR more than weapon focus if you need to roll a 19 to hit (IC is worse than WF).

It seems to me that once you get a second iterative it is more or less a wash between the two, but as soon as you hit level 11 weapon focus is the better investment. I don't think the formula accounts for rolling to confirm the crit either, which would reduce the DPR totals for improved critical, pushing it further in weapon focuses favor. So damn, here I was thinking weapon focus was a filler feat... time to shuffle some feats around, thanks for the protip GM Granta!

I can share the spreadsheet I made if anyone cares. I found it very interesting that a +1 to hit ever out paces a 30% crit range!

What numbers did you put in for average damage? What weapons did you use? Those affect it tremendously. And keep in mind, it isn't simply a "30% crit range". Even overly simplified, it is a 15% crit range (the increase only), which turns into about a 7.5% hit range--compared to a flat 5% hit range. But that is overly simple, because that is not the only difference between possible weapons.

Even if you factor in all of the differences between weapons, there is still variance. Crit-based builds will have higher variance (be less consistent), which means they will exaggerate both good and bad luck.

Also, some creatures are immune to critical hits, but none are immune to a higher attack bonus.

I just compared weapon focus and improved critical with a falchion with a sort of "control" without either feat. Nothing crazy robust, but directly applicable to my character. I don't have the command of math or excel to get into anything more in-depth than that, so I stuck with comparing the changes of a single variable (+1 to hit vs an extra 15% crit chance) to the "control". I'll probably include both, it is just a matter of when in the build at this point.

It is really the extra status effects you can get at high levels that makes improved crit with a 18-20 weapon a worthwhile investment. If you can keep your opponent stun-locked - win.

If you don't need Improved Critical as a prerequisite for something core to your character, skip it and buy a keen version of your weapon.

Feat > $$$

I meant to answer this question a while ago, and forgot. The reasoning behind our available class list is to have two options for each of the following categories: full progression arcane caster (prepared/spontaneous), full progression divine caster (prepared/spontaneous), 2/3 progression caster (arcane/divine), 1/2 progression caster (arcane/divine), full BAB non-caster, 3/4 BAB non-caster.

I see those as the fundamental roles a character can fulfill, and wanted there to be a choice within each. And in addition to being less versatile choices for an urban campaign, the druid and ranger happened to duplicate an already filled role.

The 2E announcement seems to have made a few people upset to the point of dropping games and even dropping Pathfinder entirely. The announcement has not prompted me to change any of my plans. I am still interested in doing our AP plan that we specified here in this thread. Or, at the very least, getting started with what we know now and possibly changing it later.

Is everyone else still on board or are any of you bailing? It's better to let us all know now rather than later, IMHO.

Good call, MX!

Most likely, I will want to continue GMing and playing 1E. But if 2E is significantly better--enough so to justify the effort of switching--then all new games would probably be in 2E.

Yes. I'm still all on board playing this with you guys.

I might need to revisit my offer to run CotCT depending on how things evolve, but I had given no thought to it until MindXing mentioned that.

In all honesty, I'm pretty over committed at the moment. I've been waiting for the guide to see if a character concept jumps out at me from there.

I've found in the past that unless I have a strong idea where I want to go with a character in an AP, I tend to have a hard time growing into both the character and the AP. That said it can be fun having a bit of a blank canvas that grows as the game develops, but you still need the base to work from.

I'm not too sure if my ambivalence is strictly tied to too many games, to 2E announcement or to the site changes making my navigation harder than it used to be. Or just life being generally busier at the moment.

Let me see if I have the current composition right

Gummy - Blood Rager (full BAB, minor arcane)
Xin - Oracle (full divine)
Blake's Tiger - Rogue
Melda - Wizard.

Which ticks all the bases and leaves things quite open for me.

I have no intention of leaving either. Aerondor, that list looks about right to me!

A lot of what you said probably will/can apply to others--it has certainly applied to me at various points, so here are my thoughts:

If at any point any of you find yourself not (fully) enjoying the game because your character doesn't grab you, making a new one is always an option. Delaying the start while people explore character ideas is also an option. If need be, we can run one of the associated PFS scenarios (not for credit) as a test run for your characters.

And in general, do not be afraid to ask me for anything if you feel that it will make the game more fun for you. More time, help with ideas, mid-adventure changes, whatever.

And if you don't think those things will work, but backing out of the AP will--then we will wish you well in your other games.

I'll hold on until I see the guide. It's a great chance to play it, and at the rate Paizo is producing it, I likely will have had some games free up and other things finish. fingers crossed.

I'll be away for the next couple of days by the way.

The free Story Feat: do we forgo the usual prerequisites? Like having sold 5,000 gp worth of artwork or having stolen 1000 gp worth of treasure and kept 500 gp of it?

I'm specifically looking at Magnum Opus or Thief of Legend as possible choices.

Prerequisites must still be met. You are just getting a bonus feat slot. If you want to take feats like that later on, I will provide opportunities for you to complete the prerequisites. Though you will also have to complete the first feat or else retrain it into the second one.

It looks like the ones we could take advantage of at first level are:

Damned (have a fiendish or abyssal bloodline)
Deny the Reaper (RP requirement)
Fearless Zeal (Cleric or Paladin or maybe Oracle)
Feral Heart (RP requirement)
Foeslayer (maybe?)
Forgotten Past (maybe?)
Liberator (RP requirement)
Lost Legacy (RP requirement)
Nemesis (RP requirement)
Redemption (Paladin who chooses to start as a fallen paladin)
Shamed (RP requirement)
True Love (RP requirement)
Unforgotten (RP requirement)
Vengeance (RP requirement)

The Foeslayer prerequisite could be met by halving your starting gold. Forgotten Past could be a lot of fun to roleplay, but that type of thing is basically a blank check for the GM to mess with your backstory. So choose it at your own risk.

PS You do not have to choose a story feat, if none of them fit your character's concept. However, you cannot reserve it for later either. Use it or lose it.

Making sure I'm looking at my options correctly. :)

I'm now considering Nemesis and True Love, but it will depend on what's in the Player Guide, I think.

Same here, I'm waiting on the player's guide before fleshing out the character more and choosing a story feat. Several could be really fun, but I don't want to get hooked on one and then find out that my character concept isn't very fitting.

Just to clarify: the increasing chance of a random encounter is only during additional days, correct?

Just to clarify: the increasing chance of a random encounter is only during additional days, correct?

Correct. You get 2 X level days for free, and then can choose to risk taking extra days.

How keen are people on using crafting? I have been only in one campaign where we had it, and it seemed a bit too strong. There was just so many tricks to be done with it.

I'm not absolutely against it, just wondering if it leads to something crazy.

If we're sticking to core magic items, I don't think it'll be an issue.

You sell back what you can't use for half and craft what you can for half. Same as if keeping and using what you find.

I'm a fan of crafting primarily for the point the tiger just made. I agree that since we are limiting our items, I don't foresee it getting too wild. I also think craft wondrous items is the only one we really "need" if we are going to consider crafting. The other ones are good, but that's the one I've seen used most often in any campaign I've been in. Craft arms/armor/rings/rods/staves/whatever are useful, but once you've made what you want, they just kind of sit there... Also, with the whole downtime thing that Granta is implementing, I think one craft feat should be enough. Otherwise it starts getting risky!

The Crimson Nuthatch is all kinds of risky!

A few notes and commments:

• I recommend the arcane caster take Craft Wondrous Item and the divine caster take Craft Magic Arms and Armor.
  
• The AP is written with 4 PCs in mind, and I will not be (significantly) increasing the loot.
  
• You are encouraged to craft, scheme, steal, min/max, whatever. The more skilled you play, the more fun it will be for me to try and challenge you.
  
• Items are limited to Ultimate Equipment, not core.

Can we get more loot if we plan a clever heist in our downtime?

Can we get more loot if we plan a clever heist in our downtime?

Absolutely!

I'll take CMAA. It will be fun to craft stuff.

I like the whole downtime scheme. Can we earn gp with a profession during downtime?

Can we earn gp with a profession during downtime?

Yes, but professions and mundane crafting pay very poorly in comparison to magical crafting. If the non-casters want to make decent money, it will require creative role-playing--and very likely breaking the law.

Also, you will have an opportunity to gain free consumables, similar to the prestige system in PFS. I have not worked out specifics yet, but the basic concept is to reward exceptional role-playing with some sort of points, which could then be turned in for consumables.

Now they're just being cruel: placing the player's guide on the product page but it's "Unavailable."

I managed to get it added to my downloads...

Quicklink

It's working for me!

...SQQQQQUUUEEEEEE!

I was able to download the player's guide. Perhaps Paizo was still in the process of posting it, when Blake checked. But just in case, here are the campaign traits:

Athletic Champion: Your physique and skill brought you into the public eye, and a winning smile helps you stay there. Taldor honors its extraordinary athletes, celebrating them as cultural heroes. Whether you were a gladiator, a runner, a wrestler, or any other competitor, your most recent victory caused someone important to sit up and take notice. You may never have a political career in front of you, but for now your name is helping to bring a little extra money in, and maybe that’s good enough. Select two of the following skills: Climb, Diplomacy, Perception, and Swim. You gain a +1 trait bonus on checks with those skills, and they are always class skills for you. In addition, you are accustomed to maneuvering through crowds; you gain a +2 trait bonus on checks to navigate through a crowd or resist being moved against your will, including spells and bull rush, drag, and reposition combat maneuvers.

Child of Oppara: You belong to a noble family that matters in Taldor, though as the story begins you may or may not be on good terms with your relatives. Your upbringing among the city’s well-to-do gives you an upper hand when it comes to knowledge of high society, and you start the game with a modest inheritance. With Princess Eutropia’s efforts to provide for Taldor’s common citizens and overturn years of tradition, new lines are being quietly drawn in the sand, and you have found yourself embroiled in these intrigues whether you intended to be or not.

With this trait, the assumption is that you belong to a minor noble family (and can make up your family name). In this case, your family keeps a small manor in Aroden’s View or Senate’s Hill. If you want to be a member of one of Oppara’s major noble families, you must take the Noble Scion feat at 1st level.

You gain a +1 trait bonus on Appraise and Knowledge (nobility) checks, and one of these skills is always a class skill for you. The Noble Scion feat (see the sidebar) does not have a Charisma prerequisite for you. In addition, you start play with a noble’s outfit, a signet ring, and a single additional nonmagical item worth no more than 200 gp.

Disgraced Noble: Your noble family used to matter, until your father took a stand against Maxillar Pythareus, the commander of Taldor’s military. True or not, the accusations Pythareus leveled against your family in return destroyed your reputation and isolated you from the society you grew up in. Now the only thing that matters to you is clawing your way back up the social ladder, either for your own quality of life or to clear your family’s name. You’ve had to practice deception as you began working your way back into Taldan social circles; you gain a +2 trait bonus on Bluff checks to conceal your identity and a +2 bonus on Linguistics checks to spot or produce forgeries, and one of these skills is always a class skill for you. Once each day, you can choose a single humanoid you believe to have been involved in the conspiracy to destroy your family; you gain a +1 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls against that NPC for a number of rounds equal to your character level. At 10th level, this bonus increases to +2.

Rising Star: All too often, great minds must suffer for their art, but you’re one of the lucky ones. Your skills attracted the attention of a noble patron who pays for your food, housing, and tools. As your patron introduces you to other cultural elites, you’re slowly learning to navigate the treacherous waters of high society, but you still remember the lean times when each meal was a hard-won treasure. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Sense Motive and Survival checks, as well as checks using a single Craft or Perform skill of your choice; one of these skills is always a class skill for you. Once each day, you can invoke your patron’s reputation or name one of your own prominent works to gain a +2 circumstance bonus on a single Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate check. You begin the game with a masterwork musical instrument or tool appropriate to the Craft or Perform skill you selected, a gift from your patron.

Senatorial Hopeful: While you belong to a noble family, hailing from the outlying prefectures means you lack the pull and wealth needed to rub shoulders with the stars of Oppara’s social scene. Your life has been quiet, isolated from the thrum of fashion and pop culture, but you see this as a source of insight and aim to help people by someday joining the senate. It’ll be a long journey, but you’ve already begun learning which hands to shake and how to listen carefully when others tell you what they want. You gain a +1 bonus on Diplomacy and Knowledge (local) checks, and both of these skills are always class skills for you. Once each week you can call on family connections to obtain a single piece of equipment or consumable magic item (such as a potion or scroll) worth up to your character level × 25 gp. Delivery of the goods you request takes 1d4 days. At 10th level, the potential value of a magical item increases to your character level × 50 gp, and your requests can also include spellcasting services and wands.

Taldan Patriot: You love your country, its history, and its people... even though they may not love you back. Whether you’re a bureaucrat, a minor noble, or a soldier, you want your community to be the best it can be and you channel that love into a position in service to the people of Taldor. You gain a +1 bonus on all Sense Motive and Knowledge (history) checks, and these skills are always class skills for you. In addition, once per day you can recall a specific fact about a Taldan noble’s personality—quirks such as a hobby or pet peeve—including information you would normally learn as a discovery check in social combat.

Young Reformer: Perhaps you were born at the bottom of Taldan society and you’re tired of seeing your friends and family toil endlessly with no hope of a better life, or maybe your privileged outlook was shattered by empathy or tragedy. Either way, you know the system is broken, and you’ve dedicated your life to fixing it. But tradition rules Taldor as much as any Grand Prince, and change requires more influence than you have… so far. You’ve got a few friends and allies, and plenty of determination, but while you work toward the power you need to change the nation, you’ll have to resort to more discrete ways of righting wrongs and curbing the abuses of the upper class. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Disable Device and Knowledge (local) checks, and one of these skills is always a class skill for you. Once per day, you can call upon your coconspirators to have “made arrangements” on your behalf, allowing you to attempt a Knowledge (local) check in place of a single Bluff, Disable Device, Intimidate, or Sleight of Hand check. The DC of this Knowledge (local) check is equal to the DC of the skill check it replaces. Whatever arrangements you make—for doors left unlocked, guards strong-armed out of your way, stolen keys left for you to find—must be reasonable to have anticipated and achieved beforehand; you could arrange to have a noble convinced you’re a very important diplomat traveling in disguise, for example, but if a fight breaks out you could not rely on your network of contacts to feint for you in combat. You don’t have to use this ability in advance; you can announce its use as you encounter a challenge, implying you foresaw this challenge and made arrangements prior to your arrival.

Yes, I must have seen it too soon. The blog post wasn't even up yet. I have the guide. :)

So... probably Young Reformer.

Will the version of the Noble Scion feat from the guide be available?

I haven't read it yet fully yet, but let us know if any of the character building parameters change. I see that they do outright say certain classes are good or bad for the AP and along with a bunch of recommended archetypes.

Yes to Noble Scion. Still researching the other options listed in the player's guide.

I'm thinking a noble scion may be up my ally. Probably the Senatorial Hopeful trait. As to the class to fit with it... I'm currently tossing up between a bard, a paladin and an inquisitor. Or this may be one of those characters who ends up massively multiclassing, just because that is the way they work out.

And another question. Given this is non PFS this is a chance to try out something a little different./

How do you feel about evil characters? I'm not talking cutting off babies head evil, but rather "thinks they are good, but without a moral compass, and willing to sacrifice innocents for a greater good" type evil.

In particular I'm thinking about someone who eventually goes into assassin.

Ok. Got the Player's Guide. I'll work on my character in earnest now. BTW, when did we want to start WftC?

The PG indicates that an Oracle might not be a great class. Should I take that seriously? It appears that the only full divine caster that the PG recommends is a cleric. Should I look at going down the cleric route? I've got another cleric character already so I was hoping for something different. I guess I could look at an archetype.

Thoughts?

I don't think you need to worry too much about Oracle. It looked like more of a stigma that those whose magics come from esoteric or misunderstood sources are viewed as inferior to trained spellcasters. So unless you're planning on running some oddball madman prophet--and even then, that might work if done correctly--I'd think you'd be OK.

Re: evil, depends on what kind of evil you want to be for me. My character will be good aligned. I don't want to be butting heads over moral issues continually throughout the AP. I've had a very bad experience doing that in the past (resulted in me not playing anything for 4 years), so I'm loathe to approach repeating it.

@Aerondor: There is definitely a place for evil characters in this adventure. Just make sure that your character shares the game goals as the rest of the group, and only disagrees about how to accomplish them. And be willing to lose the majority of any ethical debates, otherwise we are running an evil party rather than one evil PC.

@MindXing: The PG's arguments against oracle seem to be pure background; you may safely ignore them. There is one mechanical concern with oracles though, they have trouble healing damage faster than it gets delivered.

That is far from an insurmountable problem though. You can solve it yourself by channeling energy through a revelation, or the party can solve it together by strengthening its defenses. For example, if the party does build itself around Blind Fight. In which case, remember to look at the waves mystery.

@Blake: It would not surprise me if the core of the problem in your previous situation was the player, not the character's alignment. And you needn't worry about playing with such a person in my games, any who manage to sneak in will quickly get the boot. And Aerondor is definitely not such a player!

Assume late April or early May for the actual AP, buy I would like to start getting into character before then. For now, try to have a rough draft of your characters by next Friday.

That said, I do not want to start until everyone has a character that they are truly excited to play. If that requires extra time or effort, then I consider the price well worth it.

1: Prod for Profession related skills!

2: A cavalier is called out as a good fit and a bloodager not so much. Would you accept the cavalier class as an option?

Ignore the recommended class list. It makes little sense, as least for book one. For example, animal companions are explicitly forbidden at the start. You would be forcibly separated from one until level 3.

My recommendations are to avoid Intelligence penalties, and if playing a two skill point class, consider choosing a human or putting your favored class bonus into skill ranks.

Here is what I have so far on the profession synergies. Could use some help filling in the (many) blanks.

ON PROFESSIONS

• Profession (architect): Craft (stonemasonry), Knowledge (engineering)
  
• Profession (baker): TBD, TBD
  
• Profession (barrister): Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nobility)
  
• Profession (brewer): TBD, TBD
  
• Profession (butcher): TBD, TBD
  
• Profession (clerk): Knowledge (nobility), Linguistics
  
• Profession (courtesan): Disguise, Perform (dance)
  
• Profession (driver): Handle Animal, Knowledge (geography)
  
• Profession (engineer): Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (engineering)
  
• Profession (farmer): Handle Animal, Knowledge (nature)
  
• Profession (cook): TBD, TBD
  
• Profession (fisherman): Craft (ships), Swim
  
• Profession (gambler): Knowledge (local), Sleight of Hand
  
• Profession (gardener): Knowledge (nature), TBD
  
• Profession (herbalist): Heal, Knowledge (nature)
  
• Profession (innkeeper): Knowledge (local), Sense Motive
  
• Profession (librarian): Knowledge (history), Linguistics
  
• Profession (merchant): Appraise, Bluff
  
• Profession (midwife): Craft (alchemy), Heal
  
• Profession (miller): Craft (carpentry), TBD
  
• Profession (miner): Craft (stonemasonry), Knowledge (dungeoneering)
  
• Profession (porter): Perform (sing), TBD
  
• Profession (sailor): Climb, Swim
  
• Profession (scribe): Craft (calligraphy), Linguistics
  
• Profession (shepherd): Handle Animal, Perform (wind)
  
• Profession (stable master): Handle Animal, Ride
  
• Profession (soldier): Intimidate, Ride
  
• Profession (tanner): Craft (leather), TBD
  
• Profession (trapper): Disable Device, Survival
  
• Profession (woodcutter): Climb, Craft (carpentry)

Brewer, Cook, Tanner: Craft (alchemy)
Butcher: Heal, Handle Animal
Porter: Climb (more as a reflection of strength)

Is there a female Qadiran that could be a subject of the True Love story feat's love interest?

Is there a female Qadiran that could be a subject of the True Love story feat's love interest?

I don't recall any Qadirans in book one, but the general story line starts to involve Qadira in book three. Presumably, we could find a suitable NPC once that book comes out (~2 months).

I'd suggest
Profession (courtesan): as bluff and perform(acting) myself.
Profession (baker):knowledge(nature) and maybe climb (all that upper body work!)

You might also want to think about just a single synergy skill for the profession so as to not overshadow bards.

And as for my e"Evil" it would definitely be a "Sees themselves as a good person who can make hard choices" type character.