You know, with Skype being usable through a browser, now, it may behoove us to form a group and talk about options, should GM LotW not return.
Of course, if LotW DOES return, and I'm really hoping he does, we can use it to keep up with everyone!
I hope so as well. It's hard to find Shi a game.
As to Skype, I am usually on my work computer (I work from home, but company provided laptop) and I'm not allowed to install skype on it. :(
I suppose we could carry on the business end of the conversation here in Discussion, with the understanding that the ideal would be fore GM LOTW to come back, then other options.
I hope so as well. It's hard to find Shi a game.
As to Skype, I am usually on my work computer (I work from home, but company provided laptop) and I'm not allowed to install skype on it. :(
Click the link. ;)
It allows you to run it through your browser. No installation required.
My Skype Name is Aestereal.
Mine is Odentin. Feel free to add me, I'll throw a group together once we have more than 2.
Couldn't find that skype name.
MDTPathfinder
I'd definitely appreciate some news from LotW, even if it's just "Sorry guys, gotta delay some more because _______."
Accepted on Skype
Well if this does get off the ground I'm out this week. Going on a cruise. Will catch up when I return.
Have a good time!
-Posted with Wayfinder
Have fun!
-Posted with Wayfinder
Clock's tickin' boys and girls. May come time soon to make some hard decisions.
Clock's tickin' boys and girls. May come time soon to make some hard decisions.
Yeah, we've been talking about that in Skype. Add odentin@gmail.com and I'll add you to the conversation.
-Posted with Wayfinder
I don't really have/want skype.
Jist of it is: Troll pretty much confirmed. We need to find a new DM.
Can't say I'm optimistic on that prospect; nor am I keen on calling anyone trolls. 'Spose I'll give it a few more days before I mark things as "inactive".
There's a post in that thread about troll warnings that's really insightful. Whether or not it's a troll, it doesn't really seem like Divinitus is up for running a game right now.
I put a good bit of work into investigating what I thought was trolling before I finally bit the bullet and posted in the recruitment thread.
Again, I'm not saying Divinitus is a troll. I prefer not to post things like that. I just want people to know what to look for, and then have them let Paizo know. I'm sure there's some trolls, and also some people who just bit off more than they can chew.
No hard feelings to those who bit off more than they can chew, plenty of negative feelings toward trolls. :)
I agree if Divinitus doesn't show up, we can shop around for a GM/DM in the recruitment threads. Never hurts to try.
No need to really mince words about it at this point.
I agree Divinitus is gone, and even if he does come back I'd be confident in saying this game wouldn't go anywhere besides. I also think ya'll should cut your losses because there's a snowball's chance in hell anyone picks this up and makes something of it. Go back and look at your characters; we are ridiculous, mechanically speaking. No way a freelance GM will want anything to do with us.
As for the larger matter of "trolls"; I think that's a dangerous line of thought. I haven't seen much in the way of evidence that isn't either circumstantial or easily dismissable, 'specially considering there seems to be an attitude of attributing it all to one person/group of persons.
The underlying cause of which, I think, is that people care way, way too much. Frankly, this is only a game to me and will never be anything more. With that in mind I'm fine when a game dies or I walk away or whatever because I only ever put as much effort into a character as I am willing to lose (which, really, is hardly a loss in the traditional sense because characters can be repurposed with virtually no effort).
Most people seem to get so invested in the character that they have a hard time handling it when things don't pan out. It lends to one looking for some malicious entity to attribute their woes too, to make it easier to accept the idea that it can be stopped or that it won't happen again.
But the reality is that it WILL happen again, and it will always happen again. And that's not to say that things are isolated only to trolls; sometimes one doesn't even get into a game, or a GM has a legit reason to step away, or the game just plain old sucks. Warning against/hunting for trolls seems to be the wrong way about it I think.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for cautionary tales and prevention but I think we're bordering on dangerous territory (unless someone has a reasonably appropriate means by which Paizo could actually monitor and prevent this). I'd much rather see people make an effort to be more direct with what they want out of a game and what they're willing to offer to keep it alive. Not to say that you are advocating otherwise, mdt, but ideas have a tendency to take a life of their own once said.
Just my two cents, anyways. Not like I haven't been wrong about things in the past, nor should I expect everyone to approach the situation with my own mindset in favor of their own.
The idea isn't to do anything ourselves, it's to make sure people alert Paizo if they think they have been trolled.
As to how they could confirm it, it's actually not hard. Unless we're dealing with a black hat hacker who get's his jollies doing this, any troll is likely to be just a normal person who enjoys trolling, and that means they likely have 1 way of connecting, possibly 2, which means the trolling will trace back to an IP address or two. That will confirm it for Paizo if all these threads are linked back, to say, Verizon IPs in Hell MN. They'd then just flag any new sign ups from Verizon IPs in Hell MN and see if they start up recruit threads.
And even if Paizo does nothing about it, if the community is aware it's going on, then that takes a lot of steam out of the sails of the troll.
If you really think there's not a troll, I'll dig up some links. Two different GMs, 6 months apart, using the exact and very precise and unusual character creation guidelines, in multiple recruitments, that all started a game and then never posted in them or posted one opening and that was it.
I do agree this one is probably toast at this point.
Yes, but what qualifies as a "troll recruitment"? What guidelines are the Paizo staff actually supposed to follow that are actually realistic and fair? Best case is you ban a handful of potentials, maybe even enough to make a difference for a while. Worst case is that you've created a platform by which people can accuse one another to resolve personal vendetta's. Remember, the thing about trolls is that they look exactly like normal posters, so if you want to make strict guidelines to block trolls you'll inevitably put normal posters at risk.
How does the community being aware possibly deter a troll? The worse thing you can do in this case is engage them and show that they're getting results. If anything people are offering more fuel for the potential fire. I agree with GM Aest for what it's worth, but I'd add on to their own statement that bringing it up in this manner invites the risk of a witch hunt (a possibility that has already been broached once thanks, unintended or otherwise, to GM_Panic).
If you want to post links, that's fine. I'm not totally against the possibility of the troll, but I have a hard time of believing it is to the extent that some have claimed and also that it lies at the root at the problem. Also, if I could be presumptuous for a moment and guess that you would cite the Gossamar World and The Fallen Sons and Daughters of Heaven recruitments, let me point out that both of them had the full endorsement of Monkeygod who has something like 14,000 posts.
So what would you suggest? Just ignoring it and letting it continue? I'll dig them up when I have a chance. But, simply ignoring an issue doesn't solve the issue. Turning a blind eye to it doesn't either. Again, I'm not trying to start any witch hunts. I'm simply pointing out that multiple people in multiple places have had the same experiences. Statistically, that many threads doing the same thing over and over is outside statistical probability for random chance.
I know Monkeygod, I've had him in a game. I do not even know the two threads you mentioned off the top of my head.
What I really expect to happen is, if there is trolling, and Paizo tracks down someone, they'll find that the troll has a real profile on the boards that they keep far away from the trolling. And that they'll just drop that person a PM or e-mail and ask them to cut it out. I expect that will work, and that will be the end of it.
In the interests of full disclosure, I'm GM Aest. This morning, it felt like trolling. Now, I'm not as sure. I am getting the feeling that one way or another, the GM isn't in a place where he can run this right now, and I hope he gets to that place soon, but I'm not enough of an expert on trolling to make a call one way or another.
Let's try to keep our solution, if there is one, to this thread and the discussion on trolling to the other one, please. This isn't going to help us find a GM.
:) Good enough Arisl. Given my profile on the recruitment threads right now, it might be better if someone else posted looking for a GM.
I apologize, I didn't intend to become disruptive.
No problem, guys. I'd just like to play Aris, and if that means toning her down to a 20 (or even a 15) point buy and losing the alchemist levels, it's not a deal-breaker for me.
I think Arawn was going to look into a couple potential GMs he knows to see if they'd be willing before we turned to recruitment.
I'll wait on some news. It's a pretty busy Saturday for me.
Sweet Goddess! I leave you people alone for 72 hours and look what you do! :P
My move is complete and I have Internet again. I'll be doing some feeling around, see if I can't find someone willing and able (that I trust) to run a game for us. It likely won't be gestalt or 30pt buy (seriously, that's what it equates to), and I can't guarantee that the 3rd party stuff will be allowed, but a GM willing and able to commit to Kingmaker is worth the rebuild, in my book.
Now play nice until I get back.
-Posted with Wayfinder
Welcome back, GM LOTW.
This is quite the twist. 'Spose I've got a bit of egg on my face after everything.
... what a twist of fate!
Sorry for doubting you, GM.
No worries guys, I have things cleared up!
The first post is up under the campaign.
My previous offer still stands for you guys adding me on Facebook, Skype, or whatever, if trolling concerns you! As I said, just message me.
In the full interests of disclosure, I DID have a profile before my Divinitus profile, though I did not abandon it to trolling. I posted under the profile The Silver Prince for a while before real life got in the way of things. It was a long, hard road of things that went wrong, as Castor can attest to, one that I feel ashamed of. Not because I had the health problems and real life issues, but because I let my players down.
I know several people from before that had to give up on the game and came back under another profile, such as my friend from the messageboards Gobo Horde (Who was unfortunately found out later) and several of my real life friends, to avoid any stigma resulting from their drops. They, much like myself, likely wanted a clean slate, one where they were not judged for their past flaws and foibles, nor for the various reasons that they may have had to quit.
So, speaking from experience, I know how it is having two profiles, trying to avoid past stigma, of which I am sure there is some belonging to my past profile. I do not doubt that there are some trolls on the boards, but I also believe that there are good people who just try to make another attempt at playing with a clean slate, only to have it screw up again. I myself very nearly had it screw up this time, only to dodge the proverbial bullet and return.
And thus my confession, I feel, is long overdue. To those who were on my old profile of The Silver Prince who hold a grudge against me for the long periods of inactivity and the dropped campaigns, I am sorry. For those who I have deceived, no matter how good my intentions were, I apologize.
I hope that this does not turn people off to the campaign, due to my confession. I truly do want to continue the campaign, but want to do it being completely honest. Will you give me a chance, even knowing what you now know? If not, I completely understand. I will continue the campaign regardless, although I will be quite sad if any of you fine PCs drop.
Frankly I've never heard of any of the incidents you've mentioned (except for Gobo, but I don't really have an opinion of him either way).
If you say there's a game and there's a spot for Heyden, that's good enough for me.
I don't have a facebook though. Can't stand social media.
... Whoa! Captain. It's nice to see you again. I, for one, hold no harsh feelings. ^^
I'm definitely willing to go on.
In the interest of honesty, I should probably let my fellow players know of my personal experience with a previous campaign with our DM:
As far as DMing goes, the game went really well, though it did have the occasional hiatuses.
It is as LotW says, though. Real life got in the way of things.
I stand by you, GM. I've no issue with hiatuses, I understand that they happen, and PbP is a hobby I'm more than happy to see take some time off when necessary.
If nothing else, I simply advise letting your players know when an issue comes up, especially if it's going to take a while.
Saying that 'something in real life came up, and I won't be able to post for X time' generally goes over well; reasonable players understand that life gets in the way.
I'd gladly add you on Skype, too. My handle there is 'Cydrius'.
I second what Castor has to say about letting us know. Even if it's just popping in to say "Hey, no posts for a couple of days", that's enough.
Yeah I have a campaign that's been on hiatus for like six months and I have absolute confidence that that GM will pick it up again.
My favorite game I didn't run went on hiatus twice. Like, full-on shut-down hiatus. The first time it recovered nicely, only losing one player after a month and a half of scheduled downtime. The second, the GM's real life got too real, and it wasn't recoverable. There's still a part of me that's waiting for a message saying he's ready to rock again, just because he was so good at keeping in touch.
Well, that is heartening! It appears that 3 people, thus far, are fine with my confession! I am quite pleased that people are okay with the fact that I had so many problems on my old profile. To those who are fine with it, THANK YOU! Especially you, Castor/Cydrius, since you had the huge disappointment of seeing that S&S campaign die after so many delays.
Well, now that the truth is out there and people are fine with it, I suppose I might try and get The Silver Prince and Divinitus profiles merged, so everything is aboveboard and honest with potential future players.
I've not really been an active presence on the PbP boards, excepting an attempt at a Kingmaker game last year (where Castor and I met). So, I have no idea of your past issues, nor do I care.
What I DO care about is this game, right here. If you say it's above board and will continue, then I am here to see it through. If not, please be honest with us. If there is going to be a delay, just tell us. Join our skype chat and keep in touch. More transparency is better than less, at this point.
That came out a little harsher than I wanted it to. I'm not angry or anything. I'm glad you're back! And looking forward to this game!
No problem! I know it was not harsh, you were just adding emphasis. I have had problems where people, on my first profile, would get quite belligerent about missed days posting and such, so it has gotten easy to tell the difference.
This game is above board and ready to go. I was just solving an issue that had cropped up, as I wanted no distractions for my first post. I will admit to being a bit distressed when I saw that there was talk about finding a new GM and such, but I quickly got over it, as I knew the fault for that was mine.
What time do you guys Skype?
Also, I went ahead and confessed on MDT's thread to complete the transparency thing that I was talking about. I also offered a pretty good idea for eliminating trolling via multiple profiles under the third proposed option that I offered to help stop trolling (Name/Phone#/DOB-lock on profile, keeping someone from making multiple profiles, but allowing a fresh restart of the profile after 365 days, in case a GM feels that they need to hide from their past posting record.).
Interestingly enough, I may have also fixed the problem of spammers with that suggestion, as it would keep them from doing, say, DongWong@yahoo.com to DongWong1@yahoo.com type methods of creating multiple profiles. And, if they tried circumventing that illegally by using someone's email without permission and posting the same thing, Paizo would have grounds to force a 'disperse-or-get-charged' type of thing, the threat of which would keep them out permanently.
I feel rather proud of the 'N/P/DoB-lock' idea!
No problem! I know it was not harsh, you were just adding emphasis. I have had problems where people, on my first profile, would get quite belligerent about missed days posting and such, so it has gotten easy to tell the difference.
This game is above board and ready to go. I was just solving an issue that had cropped up, as I wanted no distractions for my first post. I will admit to being a bit distressed when I saw that there was talk about finding a new GM and such, but I quickly got over it, as I knew the fault for that was mine.
I'm glad. I've discovered that I am (apparently) a rather serious and intense individual, in person. And that doesn't seem to translate well in text.
What time do you guys Skype?
We've been using the text functionality, only. So it's 24/7 ongoing, whenever someone is online.
Also, I went ahead and confessed on MDT's thread to complete the transparency thing that I was talking about. I also offered a pretty good idea for eliminating trolling via multiple profiles under the third proposed option that I offered to help stop trolling (Name/Phone#/DOB-lock on profile, keeping someone from making multiple profiles, but allowing a fresh restart of the profile after 365 days, in case a GM feels that they need to hide from their past posting record.).
Interestingly enough, I may have also fixed the problem of spammers with that suggestion, as it would keep them from doing, say, DongWong@yahoo.com to DongWong1@yahoo.com type methods of creating multiple profiles. And, if they tried circumventing that illegally by using someone's email without permission and posting the same thing, Paizo would have grounds to force a 'disperse-or-get-charged' type of thing, the threat of which would keep them out permanently.
I feel rather proud of the 'N/P/DoB-lock' idea
And on to the last point, if there is a troll, I hope (s)he is put to a stop. I hate to see a hobby and community I love plagued by such. If it has just been bad luck, I hope it passes quickly. Again, I hate to see the community worked up into such a frenzy...
I have been mistaken (Or, should I say, been identified!) as a passionate person, so I know the feeling. It's not easy to translate what you mean into what you say without sounding... terse, I suppose? So I definitely know what you mean.
Does the text save? I ask because I have weird hours and have only Skyped once or twice at church with the missionaries since I had some friends that went. I have FaceTimed a lot on my phone at my girlfriend's behest. All-in-all, I prefer to text.
And I hope that my suggestion is taken seriously on option 3, because it would make it a lot easier to prevent profile-spamming. I hope Chris Lambertz or one of the other Paizo employees takes a look at the idea and gives it some thought at least. It gives both sides what they want and is a relatively mess-free way of doing so. After all, what are the odds that someone will have the same name, phone number, AND date of birth?
I hope that Tristan and Shi'Vatha have not dropped! :(
Yeah, the text saves, and it sticks to where you were when you left, so it's easy to catch up.
It can be...fun when you have a large, talkative group. I was offline all weekend, and came back to over a hundred messages to read through on the big group chat my friends and I use...
-Posted with Wayfinder
Nice to see you back. I'll be honest, I had begun to suspect we wouldn't. On the bright side, it gave me the impetus to post the trolling message in the recruitment thread (and I still believe there's a/a few trolls on the forums).
However, glad to see you back. I'm travelling for work this week, and on personal reasons next week, so I'll be a bit spotty, but I'm here.
I don't hold past issues against people, I judge them on their ongoing activities. So, unless you start calling me names, I have no issues for now. I think I remember Gobo Horde, vaguely, from the rules forums.
I think Aris's personality is going to be closer to Hermione Granger than I was hoping. Ah well, that's what being extremely smart and mildly attractive will do to you.
So, on the topic of languages: A habit I've picked up from former party mates (and done my best to spread) is using real-world languages for fantasy ones. It seems to help the immersion, at least in PbP games.
So far, it looks like Hebrew has been chosen for Celestial (I've seen a few choices for that one, and Hebrew is very common).
I'll be using French for Elven, Japanese for Draconic, and Welsh for Sylvan.
Even though Arawn doesn't speak Sylvan, yet, he will be using it for casting until he can learn it (at level 4).
Another note I'll make is that my verbal components are typically short phrases taken from popular culture. Feel free to run them through Google Translate, if you'd like. :)
Alright. I have a few more languages than everyone else, so I'll put what we're using/what I'm planning to use in my character sheet later.
EDIT: Anyone have any complaints about the following?
Elven (french), Gnome (irish), Sylvan (welsh), Goblin (unsure), Draconic (japanese), Dwarven (hindi), Celestial (hebrew)
Also, I still need a language for Goblin. I just can't think of anything both excited enough and guttural enough off the top of my head.
Goblins fear writing. I would suggest meaningless symbols like wingdings but that would be tough to do, haha.
-Posted with Wayfinder