Ok guys, I created the thread. Like I said I'd been contimplating it for a while so I had some of it together already. Here it is. My Recruitment Thread
Feel free to post and start asking questions and such. Anyone of the players here (and especially Brookside) are welcome to jump in though in the end it will just be 2 or 3 players.
Could you elaborate on the E8 thing? I did see different definitions and variants of that. I know it may not be important right now but may be in the future.
I mean: Is it only the additional Feats past E-Level? Is it buying into Gestalt? Mythic Tiers? How about items with CL over what is available - do they exist?
I'll check your recruitment in more detail tomorrow and will see what comes to mind.
Good questions Turion, but to keep from completely hijacking the discussion thread let's discuss such things in the recruitment thread. :)
Kudos and good luck, Fyrtor! I don't have time for another game, but I might read your thread like a lurker in the light.
About that face to face game, though! We'll be playing Rappan Athuk with a party of three - I plan to build as versatile and survivable a character as I can, and I expect it won't be sufficient. Betimes Rappan Athuk is a slightly unfair. For a bit more background and context, two of the players (including myself) and the GM were part of an . . . I want to say part of a nine or more person party who failed to clear the Dungeon of Graves waaay back in the day. Dying (repeatedly) in Rappan Athuk is one of my earlier gaming memories, I think I was like twelve. It'll be nostalgic!
I'll definitely show off the build when I'm done with it. :)
Have fun, Fyrtor! Looks like a good time but I can't add a game right now.
Sounds cool, Brolin. I was playing a gestalt Rappan Athuk game that died before the first encounter was over... ah pbp...
GM, how do we want to handle this sparring match? It seemed like a great in character way if gaining the orcs respect and such, but I'm already holding up the action, running a single combat while fun seems like a bit much. We could do it as a set of rolls and then a blow by blow description, that way it's all done in one or two posts. Up to you.
I'll respond in gameplay later today.
About that 3.5 character! I was building a pretty horrific barbarian/swordsage/factotum/dragon shaman/crusader/wizard/bard/fist of the forest/deep warden/sublime chord/ur-priest/mystic theurge, but then we had a session zero and I found out we were using multiclass exp penalties. :(
Also I found out what everyone else is playing and decided to build a character that synergizes with the rest of the party, so. :/
Whatever, I'm sure I'll get my chance to play a factotum/swordsage at some point. This is Rappan Athuk, characters'll be dropping like flies! For now I'm running the Incubus/Succubus monster class from Savage Species on one side, and going crusader/barbarian/wizard/bard into sublime chord on the other. Put that lovely racial +12 CHA to good use throwing down save or dies, take AoOs with a polearm, and use martial maneuvers with my swift and immediate actions.
Bear in mind that -- by default -- prestige classes do not incur multiclass XP penalties, only base classes. It says "Taking a prestige class does not incur the experience point penalties normally associated with multiclassing." right in the SRD. So as long as you can keep your base classes balanced -- except for whichever favored class you get based on your race -- you should be good. I see twelve classes in that list, and only seven of them are ...
BAAA ha ha ha.
Yeah, I almost said that with a straight face.
Wipes away a small tear.
Oh, 3.5, with its crazy, crazy multiclassing.
No, but seriously. You must be starting at a pretty high level to make all of that even remotely feasible. Just keep your base classes in balance and you'll be fine.
Gotta say, though, enforcing the multiclass XP penalties is a sadistic move on the GM's part.
Oh yeah, the crazy stuff in 3.5...highly enjoyable if totally unbalanced.
GM is even cool with Monster Classes, I think the sadistic part is not in the multiclass XP penalties, but in the choice of adventure :)
Do have fun.
No, but seriously. You must be starting at a pretty high level to make all of that even remotely feasible. Just keep your base classes in balance and you'll be fine.
We’re starting at third level, but the monstrous multiclass nightmare wasn’t something that took long to come online - it’s just that there’s very little incentive to stick with a class and in gestalt you can only take a prestige class on one side or the other, so it wound up fairly dip-tastic. Unfortunately, it had seven levels of wizard (five more levels than I was planning on taking in any other base class, which was curtains for the concept. I might try to rework Dr. McDoeverything to use less classes and/or to be something with wizard as a favored class, but that leads to a lot of duplicated effort anyway. Might as well specialize, and try out a different exciting subsystem every time I have to roll up a new character!
Gotta say, though, enforcing the multiclass XP penalties is a sadistic move on the GM's part.
I’m not too upset. We’re deliberately invoking an old-timey feel. He offered to waive the costs on crafting magic items, and the player rolling an artificer specifically requested he not. The one concession we’ve made to modern/user-friendly game design is fractional bonus progression, because not using it gets kind of messy.
Do have fun.
Thanks, I plan to. :D
@Fyrtor: A pity those are not Warhammer 40k Orcs :)
Who are technically a Fungus(They spread via Spores - no Girl Orcs). And powerful reality-bending Psykers(like, most of their stuff only works because enough of them believe it will).
Setting them up with Sarenrae would have...fun results. (the mercy would probably get neglected a bit - seeing how before every battle their weapons get wreathed in a holy fire(courtesy of psyking) which is obviously a clear sign their opponents were beyond redemption and to be given a quick death)
Like, some bloodthirsty Orc spots someone, his Scimitar goes Firey, the others see it, theirs go Fiery, and they all WAAAGH off into the indicated direction spreading an (un)holy crusade in their wake.
That sounds hilarious. It takes the complaints I hear of the Dawnflower edge group (I can't think of the name right now) an turns it up to 11. Lol
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How Christianity portrayed Jesus as a warrior to woo the Vikings
Now imagine how Saranrae will he depicted to a culture that sees the Sun as something of intense power that kills indiscriminately. I think *best* case scenario, the orcs take her mercy to mean “absorb defeated foes into your tribe instead of enslaving them” while turning her warrior aspect up to 100.
"You defeated. Goddess say show mercy and offer Redemption. Convert and join WAAAGH or die! Make choice now!"
It's not far off the "mercy" of the crusaders, both on the Christian and Islamic sides. It's a pretty common ultimatum offered thoughout history.
GM, how many days have we been aboard? I would like to fulfill Turion's request for greater magic fang concoctions and if we know we are about to reach land reset my spells prepared.
I know. But while often sidetracked, real-world religious 'crusades' had theoretical goals and significant limitations in manpower, supply lines etc...
With an Orc Warhorde, it's pretty much the opposite - they will increase in Power perpetually and only really stop due to infighting once they run out of other races to kill or of worthy warbosses to lead them.
It's more of a "the Huns had a religious awakening" thing.
Or, even more accurately "the black death had a religious awakening" thing.
Oh boy, Halak and his posse are loose in Helm. This is going to be hilarious. Or, you know, awful. One of those two. Or maybe both.
Oh boy, Halak and his posse are loose in Helm. This is going to be hilarious. Or, you know, awful. One of those two. Or maybe both.
Yup. :]
Ugh, I just broke made a Facebook account. And not one under a throwaway email made and promptly forgotten to access some game or service but briefly. One with my actual name, that I plan on actually using. I'm officially a cog in the dystopian machine. I feel dirty. I can feel my privacy withering away under it's datamining attentions, like when Pippen looked into the Palaintir and something looked back and saw things that frightened him. It knows things about me, now, like that my gender is "custom", or that I was born in 1916. Sigh.
Lol
I made a facebook account in 2007. I log in once a year or so to take away any permissions they've seen fit to give themselves.
Not using Facebook.
I work in IT.
I have seen things.
That said, as long as you don't let it negatively impact your mindset...*shrug*
Huh. I wonder what Captain Hannady is doing here? He was from Astin, and he went back there at the top of Page 24 ...
Also, I we have a metric crap-ton of loot to sell off. And lots of shopping to do. Is the loot list up to date?
Speaking of that, the journey to Helm gave quite some time to copy the spells...
Those to be added by Level:
1: color spray, comprehend languages, SM I, detect undead
2: Burning arc, burst of radiance, SM II, flaming sphere, fox’s cunning, pyrotechnics, touch of idiocy
3: Fireball, hold person, SM III, clairaudience/clairvoyance, deep slumber
4: Acid pit, dimension door, dimensional anchor, emergency force sphere, resilient sphere, solid fog, SM IV, wall of bone
5: Cloudkill, cone of cold, hungry pit, overland flight, permanency, phantasmal web, SM V, teleport, trace teleport
6: Banshee blast, SM VI
1 10 gp x 4 = 40 GP
2 40 gp x 7 = 280 GP
3 90 gp x 5 = 450 GP
4 160 gp x 8 = 1280 GP
5 250 gp x 9 = 2250 GP
6 360 gp x 2 = 720 GP
For a total
We did say we could streamline the process a bit:
Staff of the Scout would be 4800 GP sold, plus some normal money to bridge the gap?
Feel free to ask Hannady if you're curious!
Loot? Shopping? Music to my ears!
Definitely want to get defending for my new helmet. It seems perfect for it. As a helmet should provide AC, unless being used to headbutt. So I’ll need 6k gold for that.
And besides that, all of my gold will be going into upgrading my hammer and armor. They are central to Kazador’s character. And I don’t think that being +1 properly represents their importance.
Keen, I really really want keen.
The loot sheet is mostly up to date. There's a few items near the end that may still need to be assigned.
Flagged.
You guys are welcome to head out to shop separately, etc and I'll roleplay various activities with you with various NPCs.
So, we have a lot of stuff to sell and buy. I've added a value column. I'll try to go through and a a valuation for all of the items, starting with the ones we are likely to sell. Any help with that would be great.
I'll also color the rows for times I expect we want to off load.
Turion, I think we can assume you've itentified the rods by now. I'll move those to the magical sheet.
Any thoughts from everyone?
Edit: Brolin, are you keeping the +2 light shield, or the +1 darkwood heavy shield? I remember there was some confusion there.
Ok so I have values up for a bunch of the stuff. Things I think we should sell are yellow. There are several items I was on the fence about, those I left uncolored for now.
So down to the nitty gritty. How do we want to split spending cash? Turion has a looks like he has a lot, but a big portion of that is because he didn't get a Kazad Gravr custom item. Those aren't listed or costed out.
I really want keen which will cost 6k. After that? Maybe a magic armor boost? Or a rod of extend? We are supposed to be heading for a lease combat intensive section so maybe not. I do want to pick up a Traveler's Anytool.
Even split? I tend to find it simplest unless someone needs something or the split is egregiously uneven.
Even split of the cash, or of the loot value totals? If we want to split it as a value of loot total then we need to do some accounting to make it as equitable as possible.
I am mostly fine.
But Nelly could use some additional outfitting.
There was very little money left for that when building.
Checking Magic Item Slots, Wolfs do have the option to wear a headband.
Which certainly looks silly. But Regardless, I would totally grab one of the +2 Int ones for Nelly, to push her to 5 Intelligence.
I claimed the Acrobatics one that was marked for Sale and will transfer it to her.
That said, it is strictly optional. E.g. her Barding is mundane, getting that to +1 or +2 would be great.
Or turning her Belt of Strenght into one of Physical Perfection, eventually.
Sounds good to me Turion. So quick numbers for planning sake. Selling the yellow stuff will net us around 32.4k plus the cash we already have is 12.4k for a grand total of approximately 44.8k to split. I'm lazy and so an even split of that is good enough for me because doing the accounting of value of claimed items, aggregating all of it then devising it, plus deciding on how to count or not count items like consumables, and npc given items sounds like a lot of work.
5 way split would give each of us just under 9k each. But it's probably good to keep some cash on hand, so say 8250 each for now? I do think in general we've tried to split the items fairly evenly based on needs, so if we go through the whole rigamarole of tracking it it probably won't be too far from even. (I could be very wrong though).
Any other items we decide to sell can be added to the pot (there are a few worth a pretty penny that I didn't slate for sale right away) but it's easier to add money than to take it away.
Thoughts?
. . . I'm lazy . . .
Far from it!
I must admit that the administrivia of splitting pillage is hands-down my least favorite part of Pathfinder, so many thanks for tackling the paperwork in such a large part. Believe me, I am more than content to affix my own shiftless self to your hard work.
I went through the loot sheet myself, and I'll highlight the things I think we should add to the "sell" bucket in blue. Muse plans to keep his +1 heavy shield, since it gives the same AC and is cheaper to enchant. And he doesn't really have any use for a +1 dagger, so I'll highlight that too. There's a few other things that I can't imagine anyone ever actually using, like the oil of magic vestment +1. (Delay Poison? Shillelagh oil? Why do I even have these?) And I don't imagine we have much need for a scroll of Comprehend Languages, when we posses a Staff of Understanding.
Post script: Turion should probably be the person holding the Staff of Understanding. My UMD ain't great, and he doesn't have to use an exhaustible resource just to have spells on his spell list. So mark it on your character sheet, it isn't marked on mine!
I agree there's probably quiet a few consumables to be dumped. I'm going to hold onto my dagger for now I think, if we weren't moving to a more social section I might not, but it's good to have a concealable weapon. Though to be honest without dex2dam from my sword maybe I shouldn't bother. I'll have to think more on it.
Truion, are the scrolls that you took used up in adding them to your spellbook? Should I remove them from the loot list.
Anything else that people think we should sell? The staff of Understanding was on the fence for me. Turion has a lot of quick utility ability with his hot swap spells talent. Idk if we need the staff. But at the same time it's really nice to have if we end up needing it...
Edit:Thought about adding glamored to my sword, 4k is pretty steep though. Probably not going to happen especially since I have spells to use. Really that should be my focus as a full caster anyways, but it just feels right to mix it up in the fray with Fyrtor.
Yes, the scrolls Túrion took are expended when he copies them into his spellbook, same as a wizard.
I'll take a look at the loot list tomorrow -- my brain is currently fried after a long complicated Pathfinder session.
I should have been more clear what I was meaning to ask is, Turion have you added those scrolls to your spellbook.
I only copied the spellbooks so far.
AFAIK not all of the spells I have scrolls for are actually arcane 'wizard' spells I can copy - but I got the scrolls regardless because UMD gives me the option to use them.
So I wanted to check back on them - I intend to copy those I can, which will consume them, but I have not done so, so far. Apologies, I'll try and get that done tomorrow.
@Glamored: Go ahead and figure out how much you are short. +2 Armor for Nelly should be 4k. That leaves another ~4k in the budget. Some of which I will need to scribe spells, but should still be plenty left to help cover for the cost.
I agree with selling off the +1 keen short sword. It's a very good weapon, but Mel rarely engages in melee, and gets a better damage bonus with daggers due to Finesse Training. The gold we would get for it would be more useful than the weapon.
Why is Staff of the Scout crossed out on the list?
I've highlighted some things I think we should sell in magenta. Potion of Hide From Animals, Potion of Protection from Arrows, Potion of Aura Sight, Scroll of Mount.
Brolin, you're currently holding a Potion of See Invisibility. Could I request that for Mel? That's useful on an archer, and she can't cast it herself (not being a caster).
Mel used the Potion of Fly in the third orc battle, so I've crossed that off. That was handy, I wouldn't mind having another, but third-level potions are pricey.
Kelian is currently carrying a +1 composite longbow. I don't recall where it came from -- orc loot, perhaps? With a lordly DEX of 10, he's a lousy shot, and it might make more sense to sell the magic one (for 1,300 gp value if sold) and give him that mwk composite longbow (STR +2) that I see on the mundane gear tab.
He's also got a mwk darkwood shield and a mwk breastplate which were his starting gear. They've since been replaced with that full plate and the lion's shield, so we could sell those off. He's not sentimental about them. They would sell for 128 gp (shield) and 175 gp (breastplate).
I'm inclined to think we should keep the 500 gp of diamond dust. That's enough for two castings of Stoneskin. Túrion will be capable of learning that next level, and Fyrtor will get it in two levels. Also, if we were to hire an NPC cleric to cast Restoration on one of us, we could supply the diamond dust that way rather than depleting gold reserves.
Shadow property on armor (3,750 gp). This is a flat cost not a +1 equivalent.
Sell off her Cloak of Elvenkind for 1,250.
Get a Cloak of Resistance. It looks like we have an unallocated Cloak of Resistance +1. Purchasing a +2 might be feasible at 4,000 gp, but it might be more efficient just to take the existing +1 and hope a better one shows up in loot later.
That potion of Darkvision I bought last time I was here proved to be absolutely worth it. I think I'd like another one (300 gp), or possibly two. And another Potion of Protection from Evil (50 gp).
My current funds are 794 gp, 8 sp and 14 cp, so how much of that is feasible will depend on what my finances look like after splitting up the proceeds of loot sales.
Also: are we allocating shares to Kelian and Algric?
From an in-character perspective, they absolutely earned a share. They shared the risk and fought at our side. Mel would want them to get equal shares.
From a meta perspective, this reduces the amount of funds the party has on hand for PCs, which has some game balance implications. Ordinarily that wouldn't concern me a great deal, as we're rather well-geared at the moment. But if we're going to be hitting encounters at APL plus 7 or 8 on a regular basis it becomes distinctly more important.
Also, because Kazador and I have been running Algric and Kelian (respectively), we would essentially be double-dipping. That isn't fair to the other party members. That could be ameliorated by giving them shares, but tasking the GM with spending that cash. Which would make sense anyway given that they're NPCs.
What do you all think about NPC shares?
Quite aside from the issue of shares, are Kelian and Algric going to be accompanying us further?
Algric clearly has a vested interest in seeing those crates of weapons delivered to the dwarves in Iustia. The party is also going to Iustia, of course, but not necessarily to the same place. So this would be an opportune moment for him to depart in pursuit of that mission.
As for Kelian, well, I don't really know what's going on with him. I've refrained from doing extensive role playing with him. That's partly because he's originally Vors' NPC, and I didn't want to make too many character choices in case Vors ever rejoins us (which would be awesome). It's also partly because I didn't want to throw a monkey wrench in any plans the GM might have for how his story develops.
So he's been very quiet, and come off as rather stoic, I think. Part of me would be sad to see him go. He and Mel are the only two characters left who've been here from the beginning. And he's been helpful, both as a reasonably competent melee type, and also because it's useful having Channel Energy around.
But he hasn't been leveling up with us, so he's slowly falling behind in level. And the larger the party, the slower the combats go, especially if I forget to post his actions (which has happened once or twice).
Maybe he could accompany Algric on this weapon-delivery mission. Or maybe he just wants to go home to Brookside for a while and spend some time thinking. Or maybe something else entirely. Regardless, this would be a good moment for his story to call him down a different path. It's up to the GM, I think.
All good thoughst Mel. Do you want one of the +1 daggers Mel? As far as the staff of the scout goes, well it's just not that useful I though. Know direction is easy to prepare if we expect to be in tricky navigation, but otherwise a compass and survival should be fine. Summon monster 1 is pretty meh at this point, and pass without trace seems situational at best. If we want it kept that's ok, but looking at it I figured it would be better to buy stuff with the value. That would buy Mel's cloak and armor enchantment by itself.
Edit: A note on scrolls. I generally expect the houserule that all scrolls can be used by anyone, anyone can use whatever their casting stat is when UMD'ing, and that unless otherwise stated they are all at minimum level. It's up 5o the GM of course, but I propose that we follow that set of assumptions. It minimises book keeping and maximumises scrolls usefulness without really effecting balance a lot.
Just quickly:
Staff of the Scout is crossed out on the list because I utilized that to cover the cost of copying spellbooks.
GM agreed to streamline it, but sum up the cost and drop something of equal sale value.
Mind you, that was before we sold/distributed loot, so it probably makes sense to fully count it against Túrion.
NPC Shares: Theoretically, I am fine with that, it makes sense, and we are rich for our level - but as you say, depending on their future, and on wether we will be challenged harshly in the future, it may be a luxury that comes at a high cost.
IMHO their "share" comes from being outfitted, and keeping those items. (e.g. Kelians Lion Shield).
Speaking of him: Did you consider picking up Leadership, and taking him on as Cohort? You don't have to take the followers. Just saying, Level 9 is close by - I don't know your plans, but you could make him yours and boost him to Level 7 - which is still behind, but lets him stay around and be properly aligned to you.
Quick note. I'll catch up later. Kazador: The helmet is already a +4 weapon. If you add defending to it, that will up its value from 32K to 50K, costing 18K.
Oh! It’s +4? For some reason I was thinking +1. Huh...that’s expensive. But also worth it.
Certainly something to save for!
It has a +3 enhancement bonus and I'm being generous by considering its ability equivalent to a +1, making it a +4 weapon.
Just saw that Fyrtor adds 2xdex to damage with his scimitar? Did I read that right? How do you get that?
NPCs: Algric is going to depart and stay with the dwarves in Iustia, just fyi. He's content taking the crates of weapons and doesn't want more.
Kelian is trickier. I was originally thinking he would die holding the dead man's switch for you but I didn't make my dead man's switch stubborn enough and you guys got out of Kazad Gravr without death's. So I'm contemplating his story arc but he'll stay with you for now but not much longer, unless Mel takes him as a cohort, in which case I would put his story in her capable hands. I know she appreciates where he has come from and where he is going so I'm comfortable entrusting him to her whole-sale in such a case.
Advice: Don't think that a less combat-oriented mission is going to be easier. I am going to push myself to make it just as difficult to achieve your goals as Kazad Gravr, though somewhat less likely to kill you and less combat-focused. So as you buy gear, intrigue-focused options like daggers, glamered weapons and armor, wands of suggestion or whatever, etc are all good ideas.
Fyrtor's UMD rules: I'm going to play this by rules of UMD. But unless I state that a scroll is from a certain origin (divine or arcane), then I'll let it be used as either if one has it on their spell list. And yes, unless stated otherwise scrolls are minimum level.
I have exactly zero interest in taking Leadership; I'd prefer to focus on Mel and her story. So that's that.
If someone else wants to take Leadership and choose Kelian as a cohort, by all means go ahead. Otherwise, I think a logical outcome of his story to date is that he accompanies Algric to deliver these weapons, then returns home to Brookside. There, he and Vors can work on improving Brooksides' defenses, perhaps with a mandate from the guards and/or the Bishop: a better wall/gate, and train the able-bodied up as a militia that can be called up in times of need.
As for gear selection, I am excited at the prospect of a more urban intrigue-related campaign! I could wish Mel were somewhat better at social skills (Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Bluff), but with her low Charisma, low Wisdom, and a comparative lack of investment in those skills to date, well ... she's just going to be at the mercy of the d20 a lot of the time. I'll keep the GM's advice in mind, but Mel has to buy gear based on her experiences to date, not what I as a player know about the upcoming campaign themes.
Brolin, you're currently holding a Potion of See Invisibility. Could I request that for Mel? That's useful on an archer, and she can't cast it herself (not being a caster).
Definitely! Feel free and take it.
Muse's own potential shopping list is as vast and deep as the sea, but the stuff he really wants are agile for his +1 terbutje (6,000 gp), a page of spell knowledge: false life (4,000 gp), and a page of spell knowledge: longarm (1,000 gp). For those counting at home, that's 11,000 gold pieces, so we'll see how much of that is feasible after the wealth is split.