Dead Man Walking! A Way of the Wicked Campaign Phase III (Inactive)

Game Master bwatford

And the axe falls.... thanks for the time. Good luck all.. looking forward to monitoring over website

A Wizard, Alchemist, Inquisitor, Sorceress, Oracle and Slayer walk into a prison.

My straight man and I are alternates. Can't say I'm not disappointed, but have fun guys. I'll tuck this guy away for another day.

Congrats all who made it. It looks like it will be fun. For those who did not, I have enjoyed the role playing and I hope that you all shoot for another WotW as your characters all had interesting personalities.

As far as role playing the ending. I love the idea of it, but you never know when the one voted out will just say "the heck with it" and never post a finale, thereby delaying everyone else.

Personally, I think it would be fun to see the final monologues from those voted off even if it is not done in order as several of those getting the axe (or torch or drawing-and-quartering) have shown a knack for writing with their interesting hot headed personalities, which I am sure would come to a climax praising dark powers at their end.

The final six and the two alternates will now need to finalize all their information in their profile tabs for their character. Once you have done this then please let me know so I can go over the crunch and verify everything and get it approved for play, this needs to include spells known as well as what spells are memorized or prepared at the moment. Obviously you have no spell components, holy symbols (Divine Focus) etc at the start so only spells with verbal components or verbal and somatic (If your hands are free) can me cast. Of course certain feats will allow you to overlook material components. The alchemist will start with no extracts or mutagens prepared for the day because of lack of equipment. You also will start with 0 Anti-Hero Points as they will have to be earned through story awards. If you have any questions then please let me know.

How alternates will work:
The two alternates are Paimon and Victor.

If a player has to drop out...
The other players will be able to choose which alternate we bring in to replace them.

If a player is killed....
The other players will be able to choose which alternate we bring in to replace the deceased character. The player that had their character die will be able to make a alternate character and that new character will be placed in the alternate pool. (Hint: Don't die)

Alternate characters just do not pop in but they have to be discovered in game at an appropriate time before being allowed to join the game.
Alternate characters will level as the characters in game level so they will be of appropriate level if needed.

Once everything is finalized I will start a fresh gameplay thread and a fresh OOC thread for the game. All players both active (6 main) and alternates are welcome to communicate and post in the OOC thread at anytime to stay in touch with the other players.

If we can get everyone's character finalized over the weekend then I can officially start the game sometime on Monday.

First off, thanks to my fellow voters and DM Asmodeus for the selection! This looks like a great group and a great game.

As I mentioned earlier in the week, I'll be at a con all weekend (and a wedding Friday night), so time will be a bit tight. I'm mostly re-building Felrin from a previous character, so he shouldn't take too long - I'll get him done over the weekend if I can.

One question I know I'll have: vanilla tieflings have a feat called Fiendish Darkness, that lets them use their spell-like ability 3x/day. I'd like to apply the same idea to my alter self SLA. Any issues with that, DM?

Wow, great stuff; very happy to be selected! Looking forward to this. Have enjoyed the rp with all of you.

so Balin was just having a bit of fun, was he? I hope we can return the compliment some time...

One question I know I'll have: vanilla tieflings have a feat called Fiendish Darkness, that lets them use their spell-like ability 3x/day. I'd like to apply the same idea to my alter self SLA. Any issues with that, DM?

The change would fit the requirements of the AP to pass as human if needed to, so I will allow it. You need to come up with a cool name for the new feat however.

If I can get all the characters finalized by Monday we can start, if we can not then we will start as soon as everyone has their character done.

You need to come up with a cool name for the new feat however.

I was figuring the feat would be called Fiendish Alter Self, to parallel Fiendish Darkness, but that's not a cool name at all. I'll see what I can come up with - and thanks.

Fiendish Facade?

Also, just caught up with the game thread - what IS Balin's obsession with Hecate? She's really not that kind of girl...

Congrats to everyone that made it! I'm looking forward to it! ^^
To everyone else, it's been fantastic to RP with all of you. :D

Now to the crunchy part: Hecate, what spells did you want to focus on? Better if we avoid to step on each other toes. :P

Aside from the SoS I'll use for Wishbound Arcana and Hearth's Desire (granting wishes like "I want to be beautiful","I want everyone to be friends","I want to live in a peaceful world" with Excruciating Deformation, Euphoric Tranquility, a Plane Shift to the Positive Energy Plane etc.) because of Etna Turbo +9 Initiative I wanted to focus a little on battlefield control, but everything else is a little camped in the air.

By the way, DM Asmodeus, what are your rulings on Illusions and Wishbound Arcana? What do you consider 'interacting with an illusion' to be, and what phrasings can activate wishbound arcana?

And I'm obviously taking the whole Contract Devil Chain, starting level 3 ;)

Congratulations on those who made it :) I'll tuck Victor away as well, maybe he'll see the light of day sometime in the future.

Glad to be among those who made it and my congratulations to all the players regardless of moving on beyond Phase Three or not; everyone put up great submissions and equally great IC posts. It was fun playing with all of you and reading what little story we have created so far.

Now, on to a bit of character finalisation, yes?

Also, Fiendish Facade does have a nice ring to it.

Have fun all, I will miss breaking out of that damn prison for the 4th time :) See you all around the recruitments.

Just got home from work, and color me excited! Congratulations and well done to everyone involved.

I believe I already have most of my crunch accounted for. As someone who likes to plan ahead, I have a question about a custom Discovery to deal with one of the major issues that natural attack users run into, especially at higher level:

Just take the drow magic racial trait to get some cantrips as SLAs. Then you can qualify for arcane strike which will give you scaling bonus damage plus treat your natural attack as a magic weapon.

Magic is not the issue; I intend to have an Amulet of Mighty Fists at the earliest opportunity. It is /silver, /cold iron, and /adamantine DRs that screw over natural attack users. The amulet helps with /magic and maybe /evil if I make it unholy, a casting of Align Weapon from our (un)friendly neighborhood oracle helps with the occassional /alignment other than evil... but need something for those pesky metals.

Keep in mind that a +3 weapon bypasses cold iron and silver damage reduction and a +4 also bypasses adamantine damage reduction. A +5 also ignores alignment-based DR.

There is the Eldrich Claws feat, that would do 1/2 of what you want. In addition, monks get Ki-Strike. If you are spending a discovery on it, personally I do not see it as that out of balance.

Also, another option might be to allow you to take Cauterizing Weapon or something similar as a spell. It is not listed as an Alchemist formula, but seems right in tune with the class.

I am aware, and that is likely the route I will take if DM Asmodeus doesn't like my proposal. Unfortunately, an Amulet of Mighty Fists +3 costs 36,000gp, which means I may be able to afford it by 10th level (and even then it would be over half of my WBL). I'd prefer being able to deal with DR earlier than that, if possible.

@Tkaara: Yes, I know about both of those as well. As you point out, Eldritch Claws only does half (or one-third) of what I was hoping for. I roughly based the ability on Ki Strike, factoring in the fact that Ki Strike is constant and costs nothing, while the discovery would only function during mutagen changes and cost a valuable discovery, hence why it kicks in at slightly earlier levels.

That spell seems neat, as well, but apparently only counts for stopping regeneration, not overcoming DR.

@DM Asmodeus: Oh, and if you have any of those nifty monster feat chains for lycanthropy, I'd be very interested!

After sitting here working on a character sheet that may or may not be used, I decided to throw this out there for the dogs: I want to play in this game, I know Victor wants to play in this game, and I'm positive we're both on more than a few of the characters that got in's lists. I know there's a worry about the game being bogged down by 8 people but with 13 people (some posting frequently, others not) we were able to do a really good RP and feel like things were going somewhere, so I want to ask if Victor and I can play from the beginning. I know the campaign is designed for 4-6 people but I've seen DM Asmodeus accommodate 8 people at a table and keep the game challenging, so I feel justified in going ahead and asking for it.

Ok, I think that my character is pretty much finished. I am sure that I missed something. If anyone is checking, let me know.

@Uncle Taco - I would have no problem. My biggest concern with big parties is slowing things down and having to wait. It is up to DM Asmodeus, and if we have a larger party, then DMPCing characters is going to more likely be necessary. If everyone understands this and agrees to how and when non-responding players shall be put onto Auto, then it should work.

@DM Asmodeus - several people have mentioned tweaking races, using the ARG system. If we are allowed to do this, what are the restrictions, and how much can we do? I rather like the base races. However certain races in our party have low race points, Ifrit at 6, while others like tiefling (12) and aasimar(16) are much higher. So, if we are allowed to do this, please let us know what the criterion are.

@Uncle Taco: Put me down as another who would not mind, assuming DM Asmodeus feels up for it.

@Tkaara: Not to speak for DMA, but here is what he had to say on the matter in the recruitment thread, which is what I utilized in crafting my own custom race (pending approval).

It says all of them are allowed in the Player's guide, but some might have to sit out portions of the campaign. It's pretty vague.

So if nothing else, what kind of Race Point range are we looking at? Can you play something like a Centaur, with 28 RP? A Syrinx, with 16?

I want to keep in mind scale of power- because while playing a Drow Noble (41 RP) might be awesome from a backstory standpoint in some areas, it's only not pure cheese if that kind of choice is available for anyone else who wants it, or if adjustments can be made.

I'd say nothing above 19 RP, so nothing super crazy. That still leaves things like regular drow, goblins, hobgoblins, tiefling, aasimar, and changelings.

Can we add templates to other races up to a cap of 19 RP?

I'm going to say no to templates. Templates add to CR directly, unless you're talking about something different than what I'm looking at, and templates aren't really designed with PCs in mind.

If we are looking at building races up to 19rp might try my hand at a subrace of human, something long thought to be lost.

If you want to try your hand at building a race with a cap of 19, I wouldn't be immediately opposed to it, but we would have to work it out down the line during the character creation process.

I was thinking more along the lines of the creature types in the race guide- such as making a human with a few extra goodies to keep up with other PC's who have a higher RP race.

If an issue of party balance comes up during the creation process, I'll deal with it then.

If DM Asmodeus is okay with that, I'd be very happy to have Paimon and Victor on board. ^^

And I'll go pick up my copy of the ARG, in case GM Asmodeus says okay to the beefing up of races.

@Uncle Taco; Gods, yes. I'm game.

That is sort of what I recalled.

Right now we have:
Hecate Reeve - Human, 9 points
Dr. Ottakar Wilken - 1/2 elf, 10 points
Felrin Vennax, Tiefling, 13 points
Etna Agnes - Ifrit, 6 points
Tkaara Fiakben - human, 9 points
Erevan Cole - human, 9 points

Alternates
Paimon The Fool - human, 9 points
Victor Karash - aasimar, 15 points

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We are already powerful with the focus/foible and some of the feat tracks that are available - vampire, lich, devil, etc - will only make us more powerful.

Personally, my vote would be to leave the races as they are. If adjustments are to be made, then something simple to get everyone close to Victor's 15 points. Perhaps a free +2 ability (or a free feat) to the humans and 1/2 elf, a +2 ability and 1 or 2 free alternative racial traits (or a feat or two free traits) for Etna, and a free racial ability (say roll 3 times on the Tiefling table and be able to pick one) for Felrin.

Once we get into "rebuilding" races, it just seems that it becomes too easy to min-max and build your race around your character, which takes some of the fun out in my opinion.

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In one campaign I enjoyed, the DM actually gave everyone 35 points to build their character. However, these had to be split between abilities and race. Thus, a grippli (6 points) allowed 29 for abilities. On the other hand, an Aasimar(15), only had 20 points for their build. I liked it and felt that it fairly adjusted for the racial differences. Obviously, this technique does not work here with the focus/foible, but I think that balancing characters like this is beneficial.

Actually humans are at 9 points.

Actually humans are at 9 points.

Corrected, and also added another short paragraph at the end.

I built the "Beast-Cursed Half-Elf" in an attempt to play up the Doctor's lycanthropic quirks. Hoping to at least keep the Scent ability, as it is very thematic and featured in my role-playing thus far.

By the way, DM Asmodeus, what are your rulings on Illusions and Wishbound Arcana? What do you consider 'interacting with an illusion' to be, and what phrasings can activate wishbound arcana?

A wish doesn't need to mention the name of a specific spell, but must describe an outcome that can be accomplished by casting a spell the wishcrafter knows (for example, wishing to be bigger could supply the verbal component for enlarge person). It also doesn't need to contain the word wish. If someone simply said "Hey, can you burn that guy?" or "Can you help me find my dog?" I will retreat a request as a wish as long as it is related to a spell.

On illusions, its a pretty basic rule (If you interact with it (beyond just looking at it), you get the save.) Monsters are almost assuredly going to give someone a save from either fighting it or having a conversation with it. Walls and inanimate objects (not that much) however if you are using the wall for cover and an attack would have normally hit you but shouldn't have due to cover then obviously the arrow went through the wall and anyone in line of sight of that happening would get a save.

[quote-F. Castor]Now, on to a bit of character finalization, yes?

The race build looks good. Overspent a little see below.

I have a question about a custom Discovery to deal with one of the major issues that natural attack users run into

The Discovery looks good except that it is too widespread and covers to many kinds of DR with just one application. I will approve the discovery but you have to declare the type of infused metal when the mutagen is created. Now that's not saying that you could not have different mutagens prepared with different metals. Just you can't switch on the fly.

@DM Asmodeus: Oh, and if you have any of those nifty monster feat chains for lycanthropy, I'd be very interested!

I will work you one up for it over the weekend.

but I've seen DM Asmodeus accommodate 8 people at a table and keep the game challenging

I have never done it in PbP however, combats would drag on because of increased difficulty of enemies both by number of enemies and heavy use of the advanced template. Also if in combat then if you did not post in a day then I would DMPC your character so we could get a minimum of 1 round completed per day. Again it would have to be a group vote. Also ALL NPC's that might join the party would be removed from the game. Like a certain one at the beginning that some of you may know about.

@DM Asmodeus - several people have mentioned tweaking races, using the ARG system. If we are allowed to do this, what are the restrictions, and how much can we do? I rather like the base races. However certain races in our party have low race points, Ifrit at 6, while others like tiefling (12) and aasimar(16) are much higher. So, if we are allowed to do this, please let us know what the criterion are.

This was a base idea at the beginning of the recruitment process. Final race points for rebuilds should not be over 18 RP. Also if you use the rebuild rule then you may not take a feat chain such as vampire, lich, contract devil or the upcoming lycan chain I will be building over the weekend.

8 Party Size Ammendments.
Also if the party votes to go with 8 players as the base group, we are going to a standard 20 point buy and NOT the focile/fumble/roll method. So everyone will need to adjust stats.
Also if you do a custom designed race build that is 13 RP or above then you will need to use a 15 point buy instead of 20.
This is not meant to harm anyone, it just needs to be done to balance the extra abilities of custom race builds and for the benefits of the templates.

stuff..

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In one campaign I enjoyed, the DM actually gave everyone 35 points to build their character. However, these had to be split between abilities and race. Thus, a grippli (6 points) allowed 29 for abilities. On the other hand, an Aasimar(15), only had 20 points for their build. I liked it and felt that it fairly adjusted for the racial differences. Obviously, this technique does not work here with the focus/foible, but I think that balancing characters like this is beneficial.

On the discussion of balancing character I'd like to point out that Victor is only 24 pt buy stat wise, I rolled abhorrently, versus what seems at a quick glance to be ranging in the high 30's to lower 40's point wise. Not that I mind weaknesses in a character I just think that looking solely at Victor's race as an issue in the balance of power is ignoring half of the picture.

Edit; Ninjad by DM A.

In general, I like smaller, more nimble parties, but we've clearly got a bunch of pretty dedicated posters, so that's not a major concern with going to eight players. With the proposed amendments to character build and changes to NPC's appearing, I'd prefer to keep the party at six, but I'll certainly go with the will of the group.

I'm a bit torn on the race customization. I feel that the existing races all have a certain flavor to them, which adds to my experience of the game that I wouldn't want to lose. At the same time, it would be fun to tweak Felrin's build a wee bit, though I'd have to consider what alterations would make the most sense thematically. Maybe we have a limited number of RP you can add on to an existing race, to not stray too far from the starting point?

@DMA: All sounds good. When it comes down to it, I am going for a Jekyll/Hyde crossed with the Wolfman dynamic, with just a bit of Frankenstein thrown in for good measure. I like the custom race bit because it can let me have lycanthropic attributes that surface in both his base half-elf form, or his mutagenic Wolfman form. If you come up with a cool feat chain that does the same, I'll certainly be torn!

If we stick with 6: Drop the Fast attribute, now at 18RP. (Assuming I don't go for the custom feat chain instead.)

If we change to 8: Either new feat chain or the following, 12RP version of the Beast-Cursed Half-Elf:

Type: Humanoid (0)
Subtypes: (Elf, Human, Shapechanger)(0)
Size: Medium (0)
Speed: Normal (0)
Language: Linguist (Common, Elven, any others per Int) (1)
Ability Scores: Standard (+2 Strength, +2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma) (0)
Abilities:
Dual-Minded (1)
Elven Immunities (2)
Low-Light Vision (1)
Nocturnal (0)
Scent (4)
Skill Bonus (Perception +2) (2)
Skill Training (Acrobatics + Stealth) (1)

And for stats, 20 points:

Str 16 (5), Dex 12 (2), Con 14 (5), Int 18 (10), Wis (0), Cha 6 (-2)

And maybe you would allow a custom trait to gain proficiency with the weapons a proper gentleman surgeon should have: war razor and swordcane? Entirely for style. :)

Also ALL NPC's that might join the party would be removed from the game. Like a certain one at the beginning that some of you may know about.

Could they just be removed from combat roles? I've played in a WotR game where we've walked the NPCs with us the entire game and they only entered combat once as a deus ex machina.

Also it seems a majority of the party said they wouldn't mind, but how many of you would say yes given the DM's new restrictions?

Gotcha. I'll stick with the standard Ifrit to grab the Contract Devil chain later. :)

Regarding the rules to add Victor and Paimon: I'm okay with bigger parties and Point Buy (I actually prefer it), but the part about the NPCs bug me. Does that mean that they won't tag around the party, or that we will never ever meet them? If the former, give me my Sadomasochistic Fool and my Torturer! I'm a little torn if it's the latter, but I still lean heavily on having Paimon and Victor on board.
Indicatively, how much NPCs we're talking about, and how important to the plot they are?

How much NPCs we're talking about, and how important to the plot they are?

You will still meet them and play out with them, and travel with you if need be. They just won't join the cause or fight with you unless something directly threatens them and once they have a break away point they will go their separate ways.

No problems then :)

All right, I'm down for eight in that case.

I'm an old-school D&D player, and I do like getting to roll dice instead of point buy once in a while (and I happen to have rolled well), but I can set those things aside so the whole gang gets to escape together.

And whatever we do on race customization, I'd add that I like Tkaara's suggestions about how we might add a bit to everyone - and I think her suggestion for Felrin would be fun.

Now I am sort of torn. I voted for Paimon because I really liked the character and would love to have him in the game. At the same time, I like Tkaara the way she is and don't know how much it would change things if she were changed to a 20 point build.

Having DMed a game for about 18 months on the boards, I know how much time it takes to change things. DM Asmodeus might be amazing at it, or might get burned out. I know that I eventually did and have seen it happen MANY times. (Admittedly, I was converting the old AD&D Temple of Elemental Evil, which takes a little more time to convert than simply adjusting CR of encounters in a AP set for PF.)

As much as I hate to do it, I think that if having 2 additional players in the game is going to require changing the characters we have, that I would vote to stick with 6. I expect that this group will stay together for a long time, but in the more than 30 campaigns that I have been in, only 1 campaign had the original group stay together for more than a few months. That one is still ongoing and we lost our first original member this spring, after 2 1/2 years of playing.

I am also mentioning this, because when, not if, someone leaves, we will be at 7, and then probably 6. At this point, we will be a much weaker party than the AP intends. With skilled play, we will probably be able to survive and prosper, but once again, is this going to then require DMA to have to change things in reverse because we are weaker.

Just my thoughts considering the new insight from our DM.
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As far as the races go, my preference is to stick with them as written, but will take a boon if such is allowed. My intention is to go Path of the Vampire, so I do not think that I would be eligible for a racial adjustment anyway.

Convincing jurist that you are, Tkaara, I'd say I'm in about the same position as you.

A note for the Doctor. One option that would probably not effect power too much might be to swap out the Skill Focus trait for Keen Scent if DMA allows this. You are swapping a feat for a feat, admittedly the scent is probably slightly more powerful and is usually restricted to half-orcs, but with what has been said about the doctor's background, this could be a good way around the problem without really changing the race builds.

I never have DMed anything, so I didn't know that changing things around was all that work. :(

I can't really decide: sincerely, I really like Paimon (I voted for him,too!), and the 20 point buy would be a huge boon to me: I rolled poorly, so I could ditch the 20 in CHA in favor of more reasonable DEX and WIS scores, in that case switching the Noble Scion feat for another one, like Toughness.
On the other hand, I didn't think how much work would be to rebalance everything, and the 20 point buy could screw over everyone else concept (mostly the MAD ones, like the Doctor and Tkaara)

I'm not so sure about it now. I'll have to think about it :/

I am not really MAD. Oracles can live on just Cha. What the higher stats do is allow me to take a more front line roll. My HP will suffer some, but I should be able to wear heavier armor and do decent damage with my strength the way she is built now.

Also, I do not know whether DM Asmodeus mentioned this, but one of the options in the Player's Guide is that one can use a 25 point buy if their focus/foible is really low or unusable. For instance: 18, 17, 17, 8, 8, 8 for instance with a 10/10/1/1 series of rolls. Yeh, it is a 44 point character, but not really playable unless you want the ultimate mindless fighter or wimp wizard.

EDIT:
HMMM - I do not see it as an option in the Player's Guide any more. Could have sworn it used to be there. It is an option though if DMA allows it for those with really bad, or erratic, rolls.

Yes, the point buy is an option in the player guide, but DM Asmodeus specifically said only rolling. If there was the option to do a point buy, I wouldn't have even rolled in the first place. :/

And I'm not really far from that: I have 18,14,14,10,8,8. Factor in the racial modifier, and I ended up with a 10 (in the stat I had a bonus) and two 8s. :/

Yeh, I was counting your buy, looks like 24 points. So, you just about got a 25 point buy, just not with the distribution you would have chosen if you had the option.

So everyone knows. I will be out of town this weekend. Should be able to post tonight and tomorrow night, but Sunday and Monday will most likely be very limited as the family is going camping.

I want to keep focus and foible, sorry.

Also: I understand from what little I've heard of the game that interacting with the NPC's and getting them to work with/for you is a part of the campaign, especially the whole "be-Evil-have-minions" schtick.

Losing both those elements would be a big deal to me. No offence intended to Paimon or Victor.

Well, I for one find the whole tweaking of races an interesting thing, seeing as how you can spice up a base race with a trait or two, as long as one does not go overboard. Which I suppose is why DM Asmodeus has put up a limit to how many RP the final result may have. And since I am not interested in turning into something other than human, it is also a way to give a wee bit of boost to whoever will not be taking the feat chains and the various ability score bonuses and other boons that come with them.

So, here are two versions of Erevan, both staying within the limits stated by the DM. Although what I am most interested in is the heightened sight, in the case of a 20-point-buy an extra +2 to an ability score becomes important as well if I am not to diminish the character too much considering his current ability scores. However, in that case the tweaking is a wee bit more considerable than with the Focus and Foible method. Still, I will follow along with whatever the majority decides.

Well I tried. If people feel like they would be giving up too much then I'm not going to push them into playing with me.

Here's my sheets.